1023 replies to this topic

[resveratrol_guy]

Hi All,

Here's a brief update on my Asian friend's situation. I spoke to him this evening through a conference call with our mutual friend.

Based on comments from niner and markymark, it looks like the COPD theory is dominant. Based on his symptoms, it's quite plausible. In particular:

His breathing is tight, although less so since starting c60oo. In particular, he says that he can now sleep on his back for something less than half the night, whereas before he was always on his side. He sporadically wheezes, although less so since c60oo. His cough is unproductive (no mucous or blood) which does indeed sound COPDish as opposed to infective or advanced lung cancer. He has some pain in his throat (from coughing?) and upper chest, bilaterally. So it doesn't sound like a tumor, which I would expect to have a more localized pain profile.

His smoking history began at age 15, and continued until just 3 months ago. He was smoking 4 or 5 cigs a day. At that level, he might only be slightly above the level at which, theoretically, smoking is actually beneficial due to hormesis and some lucky DNA (Google Jean Calment). So this is sort of good news, in that he's not particularly primed for lung cancer.

Sun exposure is actually an hour per day (he's quite tan), and he drinks tumeric in water morning and night. No mushrooms at present due to lack of availability.

His back pain has eased since we last spoke, and is now down to a dull ache. So this does indeed sound like his muscles are getting used to sleeping on his back.

He has a well next to his home, from which he draws a pair of buckets of water, as needed. He has been doing this for a long time, except when bedridden, but only in the past few days, he has noticed that the bucket lifting doesn't leave him with sore muscles. In any event, I'm pleased that he has recovered enough to even do this, let alone more easily than when he was healthier. Granted, it's right next to his home, and he gets very little exercise otherwise, apart from a brief daily walk in the neighborhood, but it's encouraging nonetheless.

He confirmed that he's less tired since c60oo. In particular, he said that last night he couldn't sleep, and ended up getting only about an hour. Nonetheless, he said he felt normal in the morning, which was unexpected for him, following sleep deprivation. The only problem was a mild posterior headache, perhaps due to choline depletion, as in an older brain cogitating all night because it can't sleep. When I asked him why he couldn't sleep, he said he just didn't feel tired, and just lay in bed. His sleep hygiene has otherwise been quite regular for a long time, in that he usually gets to bed by 9 and is asleep around 10. This more circumstantial evidence that c60oo isn't just about peak performance and athletic endurance; it's about oxidative stress resistance and oxygen utilization efficiency in general.

No mental changes to report, good or bad. Tinnitus persists as before, which might be neurological or auditory.

The whites of his eyes continue to be white, as opposed to yellow or red. So despite StevesPetRat's comment, looks like we're not going to get any obvious liver data here.

He confirmed he's still taking his daily multivitamin.

 

Based on his experiences, I think it would be appropriate to do a field trial of Zmapp plus c60oo for ebola victims. Since viruses have no mitochondria, this would create an asymmetric enhancement in favor of the immune system (which might not occur in the case of cancer, by contrast). If anyone out there knows researchers involved in the ebola war, please invite them here.
 

@niner

 

"There is a hypothesis that c60oo may rescue failed differentiations among stem cells, so there might be a stem cell component to its effects."

 

Now this is really interesting, in particular because this is the (much more intensively researched) mechanism of action of various resveratrol analogs (and more proximately, the sirtuin class of proteins). They appear to reverse teratogenic epigenetic mutations (in effect, stem cells or their decendents which evolved into cells belonging to the wrong organ, due to pseudomethylation on the part of pollutants acting as de facto gene switches). In paricular (@ 9:50 but the whole video is worthwhile):

 

 

My comments regarding stem cells and c60oo were purely by way of analogy. But the notion that it might intervene in stem cell mediadiated tissue repair is tantilizing indeed. A link to the details would be valuable.

 

In other news related to c60oo experience, my own:

 

So this morning I awoke with a headache, which managed to evolve into a raging migraine of the once-a-year nauseating variety. I had planned to start taking c60oo, but not quite yet. However, I figured it might be interesting to see if this stuff could intervene, especially in someone naive to the substance. Not that I expected much, as c60oo is more of an antioxidant than an after-the-fact antinflammatory agent (although I've noted comments in this thread regarding reversal of skin inflammation).

 

Two hours ago, I took 3 mg of the same stuff I shipped to my friend. It did indeed taste like good olive oil, but otherwise did nothing. I was looking forward to tomorrow's gym workout. But as I sat down to write this post, the phone rang, and a friend of mine asked me a series of very complicated technical questions. It was probably half an hour into the call when he mentioned to me that I was speaking twice as fast as him, and faster than I had ever spoken to him before in the 7 years of our friendship, in his recollection, yet he commented that my diction, grammar, and pronunciation were as correct as they normally are for a fluent English speaker. Judging from his side of the conversation, he understood the actual content of my answers well. I was quite interested in the subject matter, but to be sure, this is not the first interesting conversation I've had in my life. When he mentioned it, it did strike me as  odd, and must have been the result of the caffeine in the green tea that I'd been sipping this evening. But when I checked the box after hanging up the phone, I realized that I had bought the decaffeinated stuff. It's the closest I've ever come to a James Bond / Austin Powers piracitam trip -- without piracitam (don't try that at home until you've read the piracitam burnout threads). In hindsight, I really don't know what happened. I certainly can't read or type any faster than normal. c60oo? Maybe. If so, then the results were surely accentuated by Super Quercetin (with bromelain -- verbal fucntion enhancer, another thread for another time) and perhaps aspirin (better oxygenation due to thinner blood, which I don't normally take, but for the migraine today). To be sure, I still have the headache. It has moderated somewhat, but probably to an extent which would have happened anyway. Which in a way makes the verbal acceleration all the more remarkable. On the minus side, this might be bad news for me, in the sense that it implies that my brain is loaded with free radicals, unlike most of you healthier lot who received no such similar benefits.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 23 August 2014 - 03:39 AM.

[Kalliste]

Today the blood bank was back in town, so I put the C60 hypothesis to the test. To reprise, last time I gave blood I had taken a rather large dose of C60oo the day before, and my blood was a bright red color. This time, I had not had any C60 since the middle of last week. It was not a big surprise - my blood was dark this time, just like all the other donors. So while this was hardly a scientific experiment, I am satisfied that it was the C60 that caused the unusual color. Make of this what you will. 

 

Interesting update. I'm also a blood-donor. I mainly do it for the (possible?) hormesis effect and to keep my iron levels low. Next time I might tell them about C60, but I bet that will be a show-stopper. I might say "a dietary supplement of coal". Is that crazy misleading? I don't wanna give up on blood donation and I know they allow but not encourage smokers to donate so this seems mild compared.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 23 August 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[resveratrol_guy]

To be quantitative: I've been playing Lumosity for about 6 weeks now. As I mentioned above, I had an awful migraine yesterday. I couldn't manage much more than a brisk walk without exacerbating it, so gym was not an option. Today I'm 90% over it. But despite yesterday being a physiological morass, which normally would have left me in "duh" mode for a few days, I managed to beat my best Lumosity score this morning, in particular, by moving from 80% to 82% percentile ranking (Lumosity performance index, which involves only paying users, who tend to be more committed to training) for my age group. I realize that's not exactly "smart" in this social circle, but I'll take 2% any time! Statistically, it's an outsized jump for anyone who has played as much as I have. I always play in the morning, at least 8 hours after ingesting anything except water, in order to approximate a neurological steady state.

 

Qualitatively, this was more than a fluke, so bear with me here for a second: Last night, my head was filled with rich images of places I'd walked or driven, for some reason, largely in reverse motion. The velocity was on the order of 100 kph. (It used to be much slower when I would have these episodes, which probably indicates that I'm getting dumber because presumably more data is being skipped between frames.) The visions were quite clear, nonetheless. These cinematographic experiences were not the direct result of c60oo; I'm sure, based on a long history, that they were induced by shiitake maitake pills, AKA "visual memory in a bottle". (I don't take them all the time, because they seem to overdrive my head in a potentially glutaminergic kind of way. Half of people seem to be nonresponders, as well. I take 1/3 pill when I do take it, roughly half of days.) But what was surprising was the level of detail. Of course I have no way to say how accurate it was vs the actual places I walked, but it would have convinced me that it was a video of the actual place, had I seen it on TV. Note that these are equivalent to lucid dreams, as opposed to hallucinations or completely uncontrolled dreams. To put this in perspective, at one point, I ended up on an airplane, in economy class. The vision was so clear that I could sit back in my seat and see the blue fuzz caught in the velcro on the hair protector on the seat in front of me. I picked up a magazine from the seat pocket, and could clearly see a watch advertisement on a particular page. I tore it out, and as I did so, I could see the tiny paper fibers that exist along the border of any paper tear, while a couple feet away (if that gives you some clue as to overall resolution). I could hear the tearing sound, and the flight attendant call button going off in the background over the jet noise.

 

But probably the weirdest experience was so real that I had to pause and make sure I wasn't hallucinating. (No, I'm not and never have been on any recreational drugs, not even alcohol, just supplements.) As I lay in bed with modest light in the room, eyes open this time, I could clearly see a shoal of fish swimming in a cubic region of space floating in the room -- their gills, their scales, their social behavior. There were maybe 30 of them, all behaving differently but congregating as a loose group in the usual way. They could not leave the cube, but there was no glass enclosing them. There was, however, a water surface floating above them, which reacted as expected when one of them would suddenly dart up from below to grab a food particle. Why do I provide all the details? Because they speak the extent of computational power required for rendering, which has implications for how my diet and my head were interacting. Oculus Rift has nothing on this sort of experience. It's been close to a decade since I was able to render anything this vivid, if ever. I suspect that c60oo is simply making the shiitake maitake more effective. Granted, you can't compare a brain to a video processing chip, because the brain appears to be an analog quantum computer (I think Stuart Hameroff is on the right track) which also uses very efficient data compression as opposed to pixel-level logic. Nevertheless, the difference in performance with the same brain over time is noteworthy.

 

Of course it's possible that c60oo is doing something entirely different than merely making the neurons involved in the experience operate more efficiently. But I see no reason to grasp for such a wild conclusion, when it makes good enough sense that it's simply reducing the environmental noise in the cerebral cortex, thereby potentiating an extended period of interconnected operation under the influence of the mushroom extract (or if you subscribe the quantum theory, a higher dendritic pore population involved in the tubulin superposition before it collapses).

 

I can't blame you if you think all this is placebo, but it's difficult to placebo your way into better Lumosity after so many weeks. Unfortunately it's also very hard to post a video of the experience! For the record, I take pterostilbene (200ish mg/d), resveratrol with grape skin extract (250 mg/d), quercetin (500 mg/d) with bromelain (150 mg/d), and in this case, 1/3 of a mushroom capsule, most all of it before noon. Last night was my first and only dose of c60oo, 3 mg. The other stuff has been consumed on a regular basis since long before I started Lumosity.

 

I'm chastened by reports of c60oo's exercise effects wearing off somewhat after a few weeks or months. Hopefully I can keep the brain humming along. Either way, I want to thank the brave souls here for trying this stuff and sharing their experiences, good and bad.

 

[niner]

 

Today the blood bank was back in town, so I put the C60 hypothesis to the test. To reprise, last time I gave blood I had taken a rather large dose of C60oo the day before, and my blood was a bright red color. This time, I had not had any C60 since the middle of last week. It was not a big surprise - my blood was dark this time, just like all the other donors. So while this was hardly a scientific experiment, I am satisfied that it was the C60 that caused the unusual color. Make of this what you will. 

 

Interesting update. I'm also a blood-donor. I mainly do it for the (possible?) hormesis effect and to keep my iron levels low. Next time I might tell them about C60, but I bet that will be a show-stopper. I might say "a dietary supplement of coal". Is that crazy misleading? I don't wanna give up on blood donation and I know they allow but not encourage smokers to donate so this seems mild compared.

 

I wouldn't say coal, since coal is full of toxins.  If you said "carbon", you wouldn't be lying, but you wouldn't exactly be telling the truth either.  I think you should find out how long they want you to wait until they don't ask you to disclose what you're taking.  It's probably something like 10 to 14 days, although might be as much as a month.  Just don't take any c60oo for that amount of time.  If you want to maintain coverage over that period, just take an appropriately sized dose beforehand.  For example, if you take half a mg per day and you want to wait 30 days, then take 30 * 0.5 = 15 mg, one month before you donate.  The half life in membranes is long enough to do this.

[Kalliste]

Oh coal is a bit misleading. In swedish it doesnt sound that bad.
I'm gonna cancel it a week in advance.

[Kalliste]

Well the only effect I feel sure about is a dramatic increase in caffeine tolerance. I've had 7 cups and I'm only starting to feel the coffeehigh. Weird

[resveratrol_guy]

Second day @ 3 mg. Only difference was I split it into 1.5 mg morning and night yesterday. Also, no mushroom pill yesterday. And I still have a mild headache. Just the same, Lumosity (as usual, in the morning before consuming anything but water) jumped to 84% percentile, with 2 of 5 test scores today being #1. 2 days in a row with 2% increases, despite a headache and minimal exercise after 6 weeks or so of training seems considerably unlikely. Especially since percentile ranking isn't like percent correct on a test; it's one's position versus peers, which gets progressively more difficult as one approaches 100%. There is definitely something neurological going on, and the only significant thing that's changed is c60oo. My diet was actually better (more veggies, less carbs) when I started Lumosity. As you can see if you click the thumbnail below, there is a clear spike in my memory, attention (ability to focus narrowly), and speed, which accounts for the improvement in LPI.

 

Predictably, the lucid dreaming experiences waned last night, on account of a lack of mushrooms.

 

My only exercise yesterday was about 5 km walk, whereas prior to this headache I had been doing 10 minutes at 60% treadmill, 15% uphill grade. I was careful not to overdo it, but I guess I didn't try hard enough, because I seem to have "supermanned" my knee. Lesson learned.

 

The only other oddity is that I feel like my body is maybe 10 kg lighter since taking c60oo. It's a very weird feeling, which is surely exacerbated by all the antiinflammatories I've been taking for the headache, but it's much more pronounced than I would expect. I'm actually pleased to have a knee ache because it keeps me grounded, lest I think I could take off running.

 

 

Attached Files

•  lpi.png   23.1KB   6 downloads
•  rank.png   9.65KB   3 downloads

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 24 August 2014 - 03:26 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

I was tired this morning, but no headache. But I still managed Lumosity @ 85% (LPI 1418), a record for the third day in a row. Interestingly, 4 of 5 games were personal #1. (Lumosity tracks your top 5 in each game.) I think we're well beyond the placebo threshold here. The one game that I didn't make top 5 was Memory Matrix, which is a very targetted test of visual memory. Not surprising, since it's been 3 days since I had a mushroom pill. Today's gains came from attention, speed, and flexibility. It makes sense to me that my improvements over the past 3 days have mostly been due to my ability to respond rapidly to stimuli (and for that matter, to speak more rapidly, reflecting faster storage access), as opposed to improvements in abstract problem solving, in particular because a mitochondrially targetted antioxidant is presumably going to make neurons more responsive, but there's no reason to believe that it would increase the number of connections. Of course, there's always the longterm prospect that if I'm better able to prevent neuronal damage, then the new neurons I generate from exercise (when I really get back to it) should result in a greater net improvement in cognition. For the record, I had another short walk yesterday, maybe 3 km. In any event, Lumosity is starting to get very difficult indeed. I'm more than satisfied if this is the max.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

Lumosity flat @ 1416 (vs 1418), 85%. I think that concludes this brief but informative experiment. I'll post more about my friend later in his course of dosing, as results warrant. I mentioned yesterday that Lumosity was getting very difficult. I suppose this could be misleading, so let me clarify for most of you who don't have Lumosity: it's very difficult all the time. But in this case, I was referring to my probability of continued percentile improvement. When I started, I was basically competing against the would-you-like-fries-with-that crowd. (I'm still trying to ascertain the exact value, because Lumosity says they are still working on the code to look at past percentiles, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 30-40% range. No, I'm not kidding. It's a long story for another thread.) But now, I'm up against nerds.

 

For the record, in case it helps anyone in the future:

 

On account of the rapid onset of my headache the other day, my doctor (who I had previously scheduled to visit anyway) recommended a brain MRI out of an abundance of caution. I had with and without contrast (for vascular visualization) yesterday @ 3 tesla, which seemed to take about 25 minutes. The MRI itself was essentially unchanged from a previous MRI 7 months ago, so I'm obviously happy about that (although I'm left guessing as to the physiological cause of the headache). I took the MRI about 4 hours after taking 1.5 mg of c60oo. Despite C60 (sic) and some of its compounds being slightly diamagnetic or paramagnetic at certain temperatures, it didn't seem to interact in any dangerous way with the magnetic field or the contrast agent. So my fears of exploding mitochondria were greatly exaggerated .

 

Of course, I drank plenty of water before and after in order to protect my kidneys from the contrast agent, which is a minor hazard for those of us with decent kidney function, certainly compared to a CT scan. I noticed the following cognitive effects. Bear in mind, a brain MRI is equivalent to untargetted transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS).

 

1. Previously, the MRI gave me a moderate headache. That didn't happen yesterday. I did, however, feel a bit groggy afterwards.

 

2. For the rest of the day, I noticed on the order of a 1% dropout from pieces of my longterm memory, in particular, names of people and places that I knew very well and should be expected to recall instantly. This may simply have been the result of overdoing the distilled water in an attempt to flush the contrast agent from my system, resulting in acute hydrocephaly. I guess I'll see in the next few days.

 

All in all, c60oo would not appear to be incompatible with MRI.

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 26 August 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[Kalliste]

Again I switched from taking 10mg/day of MitoQ for a few days (felt great those days) to taking 4mg C60 today. No weird stuff happening this far.

[drtom]

Again I switched from taking 10mg/day of MitoQ for a few days (felt great those days) to taking 4mg C60 today. No weird stuff happening this far.

 

I could be wrong but I thought I read that MitoQ not only failed to extend LS of wild-type Drosophila, but produced a dose-related toxicity.

You might wanna be careful....

I'm just sayin'...

[Kalliste]

I'm not gonna debate MitoQ in this thread since that is seriously OT. Please post that study or simply the comment in one of the forums MitoQ threads.

[resveratrol_guy]

Just a quick update: I'm planning to go for stem cell therapy very soon, which is largely untested vis-a-vis c60oo. If you have any advice, then please reply to this thread which provides the details. Personal Lumosity @ 87% while still at about 3 mg/d. (Any further Lumosity updates will be on the stem cell page, as that's the next major event that will likely affect it, for better or worse.) I will have another update on my friend's friend once he finishes his c60oo, probably later this month. He says he's "fine" now except for a sore throat (pathogen or olive oil burns, not sure which), but we didn't a chance to determine what "fine" actually means, on account of a bad connection.

 

[Turnbuckle]

 He says he's "fine" now except for a sore throat (pathogen or olive oil burns, not sure which), but we didn't a chance to determine what "fine" actually means, on account of a bad connection.

 

This is really poor data.

[resveratrol_guy]

 

 He says he's "fine" now except for a sore throat (pathogen or olive oil burns, not sure which), but we didn't a chance to determine what "fine" actually means, on account of a bad connection.

 

This is really poor data.

 

 

I agree. That was my point. The phone service over there sometimes cuts out for hours on end, so we never got any better description of the situation. Instead, we've decided to wait another week or more until he finishes the c60oo, then attempt another call. In the meantime, I'm happy to take suggestions regarding questions to ask, bearing in mind that unfortunately modern diagnostics are out of the question.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 06 September 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[niner]

we've decided to wait another week or more until he finishes the c60oo, then attempt another call. In the meantime, I'm happy to take suggestions regarding questions to ask, bearing in mind that unfortunately modern diagnostics are out of the question.

 

Ask him how far he could walk without distress before c60, and how far he can walk now.

[mikey]

Today the blood bank was back in town, so I put the C60 hypothesis to the test. To reprise, last time I gave blood I had taken a rather large dose of C60oo the day before, and my blood was a bright red color. This time, I had not had any C60 since the middle of last week. It was not a big surprise - my blood was dark this time, just like all the other donors. So while this was hardly a scientific experiment, I am satisfied that it was the C60 that caused the unusual color. Make of this what you will. 

 

As someone noted from a study, C60 is out of the body in about 96 hours and that's what I noticed myself.

 

Taking 7 mg of C60oo every morning makes it hard to get a nice warm buzz from alcohol. It takes maybe 3-5 times as much to feel it. Others have noted the same. (So, I only drink wines for taste and limit the amount to reduce caloric intake.)

 

When I ran out of it, after about four days (~96 hours) alcohol started working better. When I resumed taking C60oo alcohol stopped working as well.

 

So I won't be without it for that long again, as it seems to lose its protective effect - whatever it does that causes alcohol to not buzz me as well.

[sofaking]

That's why a great protocol is single dose on Monday, let it wear off for the weekend rosé... Then back to work on Monday!

[mikey]

That's why a great protocol is single dose on Monday, let it wear off for the weekend rosé... Then back to work on Monday!

 

Except that you lose full-time protection, which over years, could limit the potential for a longer lifespan.

 

It's a choice.

[sofaking]

Okay, that's a really good point mikey - and I wish I knew the "correct" way to go about it. In the meantime, I'll share my metaphor for why I use this protocol. Understand that this is a metaphor and not a scientific breakthrough, obviously.

 

An untended body is like an untended garden. Even a tended garden or body can become unruly because of a challenging environment, whether it is cyclones or chemical toxins or exposure to radiation (or just some creeping bad habits). The c60oo is like the act of weeding a garden, and like a garden you want to do intensive weeding at first, and then follow up periodically with further weeding. If you continue to weed every single day, the action is much too aggressive on the roots of the plants you want to thrive, and will start to harm those as well. After weeding, you want to give the plants you prefer the chance to respond to the good environment you have laid out for them. In the case of a garden, you have laid out proper soil pH, access to the correct amount of sunlight, the right nutrients, soil bacteria and environmental partners (friendly plants and animals). In the case of a body, basically the same thing. 

 

If c60oo promotes stem cell differentiation, but does it RANDOMLY, then you need to allow a rest period so that epigenetic factors can allow the preferred cells to proliferate, and the unwanted cells to go away. Just make sure you are providing the right environment so that the epigenetic changes are the ones you actually want.

 

I have absolutely no scientific evidence to support this, it is simply my takeaway from reading through a lot of the group's experiences here, and picking and choosing the theories that resonate with me. So feel free to poke holes in this theory so that we can all learn together. 

 

My protocol for weeding and c60oo - every day for a week, then once a week after that

[caliope]

sofaking's ideas are similar to the cycling regimens that many people use - there could definitely be something to it. I agree that it shouldn't be necessary to keep the C60 from wearing off. My reasoning is that the C60 study rats didn't have continuous dosing, and it seemed to be beneficial to them anyway. So I let it wear off regularly, but generally notice that I'm feeling run down if I go too many days. I don't drink so I have no motivation to stay off it just to get a buzz. Weird though, that it does that. Some sort of protective effect on the brain, or maybe it improves liver function?

[niner]

Unless you're cycling with an off period of months, I don't think that you are ever "off", as far as the important mitochondrial effects are concerned.  There are several different activities that have been noted with c60oo, and they have different dose requirements or half lives.  The improved oxygen utilization effect seems to require the lowest dose, and last the longest.  The immunomodulatory effect that improves cases of asthma, allergies, and eczema appears to be due to a minor oxygenated component in the c60oo,  and requires a larger dose to manifest, so it drops off more quickly.   From Mikey's description, it sounds like the suppression of the high from alcohol requires a larger dose and/or wears off faster.  At the moment, I'm taking ~25mg/month, at two week intervals.  In the past I've used as much as a four week interval between doses.

[resveratrol_guy]

If c60oo promotes stem cell differentiation, but does it RANDOMLY, then you need to allow a rest period so that epigenetic factors can allow the preferred cells to proliferate, and the unwanted cells to go away. Just make sure you are providing the right environment so that the epigenetic changes are the ones you actually want.

 

This is one of the most important questions in the actual practice of c60oo dosing: what is the optimum cycling protocol? I'm still taking 3 mg/d (steady state) because I don't know any better, but I have no reason to believe that this is optimal.

 

Even if steady state high dosage is best, we cannot ignore the impact of economics on healthspan: we might be better off, for instance, taking more when we're feeling ill or before taking CT scans, but otherwise taking a minimally effective dose with some off days, if for no other reason than to save money for maximum impact therapies as needed.

 

I think the only way to even attempt to answer this is to have c60oo poll version 3.0 or something like that, with questions that allow us to look at causality, not just population averages. I would be happy to participate as a control group rat if other folks want to set it up.

 

On a personal note, 2 days ago I jogged back (after a 15 minute rest) from what is usually the end of my jog, thereby doubling the distance. It still didn't really tire me enough to feel like my one-way jog used to, but I stopped because I thought it was prudent to quit for the day. But today, of course, my back is still paying the bill. Oops. In any event, I seem to have entered a second phase of c60oo-mediated mental improvement: it's no longer a matter of more efficient neurons; there is presumably increased hippocampal neurogenesis due to increased exercise, while at the same time, limiting the damage that would otherwise ensue from increased caloric consumption. I don't pretend to understand the optimal tradeoff between healthspan and mental performance, but considering the benefits, I can hardly complain about the back pain.

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 10 September 2014 - 01:56 PM.

[cuprous]

 

 

Even if steady state high dosage is best, we cannot ignore the impact of economics on healthspan: we might be better off, for instance, taking more when we're feeling ill or before taking CT scans, but otherwise taking a minimally effective dose with some off days, if for no other reason than to save money for maximum impact therapies as needed.

 

 

 

I would suggest you investigate making your own c60.  It's a small fraction of the cost of the pre-prepared stuff and I've yet to read any justification for filtering, centrifuging or any other extra steps beyond add c60 to oo, agitate until purple and no more "dust" on bottom.

 

There's even debate as to whether oxygenated c60oo might be a pro or con.

[resveratrol_guy]

I would suggest you investigate making your own c60.  It's a small fraction of the cost of the pre-prepared stuff and I've yet to read any justification for filtering, centrifuging or any other extra steps beyond add c60 to oo, agitate until purple and no more "dust" on bottom.

 

There's even debate as to whether oxygenated c60oo might be a pro or con.

 

 

Replied here which is probably the most appropriate thread.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

So what follows is the latest on my friend's friend, and presumably the last in this experiment:

At present, he has nasal congestion and some back pain, the latter being most pronounced in the morning. He needs to lean on furniture to get up in the morning, but it's more of an ache than a focal pain. It doesn't appear to affect his life in any significant manner. The timing of the pain is consistent with his clear confirmation that he now spends substantially all of his sleeping time on his back. This is probably the crispest datum in the whole case, in the absence of better diagnostics. I think it speaks directly to his assertion that, save for the nasal congestion, he no longer has breathing problems which interfere with his daily routine. In concert with this, he mentioned that since starting the medicine he has finally been able to resume eating normal food instead of a mostly liquid diet. (The liquid diet was somehow more compatible with his tight chest, presumably because, for mechanical reasons, it didn't limit his lung inflation as much as a solid diet.) He still wheezes occasionally, but it's not to the point that he feels that his breating is impeded in the way it was previously, when he was in dire condition and could not sleep on his back at all. His tinnitis persists as before. To niner's request, while we weren't tracking his walking distance and told him to exercise only minimally, he walked for half an hour to the bus station 2 days ago. (Our mutual friend knows of this bus station and how long it takes to walk there from his house.) He insists that he's less tired now, and has good sleep quality. He still has no way to acquire mushrooms, although he has continued to drink turmeric 2 or 3 times per day (unknown dose).

 

[EDIT: I just reviewed my notes and forgot to mention: his throat and lung pain subsided some days ago, and he has no headache.]

As to the c60oo, he said that he is still taking a teaspoon every morning, but was afraid to take more because he was feeling better, and thought that it might be best to save it for a future illness. I explained to him (translated) that he should just finish it anyway, and let him know that we would try to get him more in the future if the need arose. This conservatism on his part suggested to me that he was convinced of its efficacy, so I asked him if, in his opinion, he was cured. (This question was intended to test his susceptibility to placebo. He surely realized that I would prefer an affirmative answer.) He said that he felt much better, but didn't know if he was cured, because he still had some residual symptoms (as outlined above), and could not know the future. IMO his answer was quite rational and therefore supportive of his objectivity elsewhere, although obviously this is not quantifiable.

In my concluding remarks, I told him that he should be happy because -- to put it in our own vernacular -- he's a guinea pig under the indirect observation of pharmacological experimentalists with considerable social leverage. I also warned him not to be afraid when his energy level inevitably receded to normal, but just to avoid contact with diseased individuals.

I don't know how many documented cases of c60oo applied to acute illness exist in the literature, but this anecdote should at least inspire more formal investigation, not the least of which in the current ebola outbreak, where the risk of long term uncertainty is trivial compared to the risk of short term fatality.

I must emphasize that we still don't have a diagnosis. However, I think this is compelling if only subjective evidence that c60oo can directly intervene on behalf of the immune system. Whether it's cancer or COPD or a virus, that could be beneficial. So if the condition returns, I would nonetheless consider the experiment as supportive of c60oo under similar circumstances because after all, he's once again indepenent, eating normally, and breathing well enough to walk for half an hour and sleep on his back.

Finally, I want to thank all you brave guinea pigs who posted your experiences, good and bad, to Longecity. You will never know when, years later in a distant land, your experience reports will translate into real human impact. Just because no one seems to care at the moment, does not mean that your detailed reports are ignored or unvalued. You very well may have given this man a lot more time on Earth.
 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 14 September 2014 - 02:57 AM.

[katzenjammer]

Can definitely confirm that it has almost eliminated dental tartar/plaque.  I normally have visit the dental hygenist every 3 months (nearly everyone in my family has to do this too - it seems to run in our family).  I have been traveling and really busy so it had been 7 months.  And my teeth looked much better than they would have normally at 3 months.  

 

Also, I've noticed that when I wake up in the morning my breath smells kind of nice - which, is somewhat unusual.....lol  :D

[resveratrol_guy]

So I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm hyposmic. I lost much of my sense of smell in a severe infection episode last year. So unfortunately, I can't be sure whether it's just due to that, or something more, along the lines of the link between hyposmia and increased morbidity.

 

But for the past week or so, I've noticed increasing episodes of normosmia (normal smell). It would come and go for several seconds here and there, which might have been my imagination. But just an hour ago, I opened the door to step outside for a break. A light wind burst into my home. I smelled the smell of fresh air, which I've hardly noticed in months. I just got over a modest cold, so perhaps this made the contrast all the more dramatic. So I stood outside my door like a mindless idiot, gasping huge inhalations of air for several minutes, trying to detect every single subtle odor wafting along with it. It wasn't perfect. For one thing, I smelled a bit of sun lotion even though there was none around. (This might be because I've used sun lotion as an odor sensitivity test, so I have more circuitry for it.) Nevertheless, I was so thrilled with the experience, that I spent the next several minutes learning what my home actually smells like. I must have gone through half the fridge testing the odors of various foods, which was sort of like walking through my culinary past. I was equally ecstatic to open my closet, only to be inundated with the odor of cardboard boxes, as mundane as that may sound to you.

 

I don't know of any reason why this should happen, or whether it will continue to improve, apart from my own natural stem cell activity slowly cranking away.

 

At the same time, I've started noticing periods up to a minute or more where I feel more connected to the world, like when I was younger. I'm more "here". There's absolutely no way to quantify this, but it's unmistakable.

 

Maybe it's all coincidence, as I seem to remember reading another post in which the poster continued to have hyposmia despite c60oo therapy. But I think it's worth reporting here nonetheless.

 

[smithx]

That's great news! Especially given this:

 

http://www.pbs.org/n...th-study-finds/

 

Olfactory dysfunction, the scientific term for a sub-par sniffer, is a strong indicator of imminent death, researchers found. In a study that began in 2005, scientists subjected 3,005 U.S. adults aged 57-87 to an odor identification test using felt tipped pens. Participants were exposed to an assortment of scents, including peppermint, leather and fish. They were then divided into three groups, based on their ability to correctly identify these scents– those with a normal sense of smell (normosmic), those whose sense of smell was somewhat diminished (hyposmic) and those who correctly identified only one scent or less (anosmic).

 

Five years later, the researchers caught up with their subjects, and found that 430 of the original participants were now deceased. After adjusting for factors including age and overall health, they concluded that anosmic individuals were four times as likely to have died than their normosmic peers. The mortality rate among the hyposmic group was also higher. “Anosmia was a markedly stronger risk factor than most chronic diseases,” the study even states.

 

[resveratrol_guy]

That's great news! Especially given this:

 

http://www.pbs.org/n...th-study-finds/

 

Olfactory dysfunction, the scientific term for a sub-par sniffer, is a strong indicator of imminent death, researchers found. In a study that began in 2005, scientists subjected 3,005 U.S. adults aged 57-87 to an odor identification test using felt tipped pens. Participants were exposed to an assortment of scents, including peppermint, leather and fish. They were then divided into three groups, based on their ability to correctly identify these scents– those with a normal sense of smell (normosmic), those whose sense of smell was somewhat diminished (hyposmic) and those who correctly identified only one scent or less (anosmic).

 

Five years later, the researchers caught up with their subjects, and found that 430 of the original participants were now deceased. After adjusting for factors including age and overall health, they concluded that anosmic individuals were four times as likely to have died than their normosmic peers. The mortality rate among the hyposmic group was also higher. “Anosmia was a markedly stronger risk factor than most chronic diseases,” the study even states.

 

Yes indeed. Superficially, a recovery of olfactory sensation has nothing to do with morbidity. After all, no one dies because they can't tell the difference between peppermint and leather. But the point is that olfactory health seems to be a very early indicator of neurological prognosis, and perhaps health generally. If it's true that hyposmia or anosmia is a symptom of stem cell senesence or hypoactivity, then this suggests that one is not replacing dead cells as rapidly as a younger person would. On the plus side, this would suggest a lower risk of cancer, which is a good thing. I would rather be struggling to obtain sufficient tissue regeneration, than struggling to contain excessive tissue regeneration. My guess here is that this is evidence of c60oo's influence on proper stem cell differentiation, which niner previously mentioned.

 

BTW I would not rule out that my history of proapoptotic supplements, especially pterostilbene and resveratrol, have played a role in this episode, as they protect healthy cells but have little tolerance for defective ones. The infection was obviously the root cause, but my nonrecovery until now is suggestive of high apoptosis and/or hypoactive stem cells. The very same conditions no doubt played a role in my recent spate of dementia.

It still comes and goes, but now I get minutes instead of seconds of smell.