1023 replies to this topic

[ambivalent]

They mean the organ that is the liver is my understanding.  (I appreciate different parts of the body can refer to different organs in TCM). After my quick read I asked him what was meant by "liver-blood" and it is literally the blood the liver processes.

 

Upon the page I was reading there was a centruy-old quote:

 

"The physician who knows how to harmonize the liver knows how to treat the hundred diseases." 

Edited by ambivalent, 17 October 2014 - 01:40 AM.

[d4shing]

I started taking this around Labor Day, a spoonful or three here or there when I could remember. Sometimes I'll mix it up with hummus, crack some pepper on it and eat oily hummus with carrots. It's also good on pizza crust and in guacamole.

 

Anyways, my experience matches up with a lot of folks:

 

Weird, very vivid dreams the first few nights and after larger doses.  Ordinarily I hardly remember my dreams at all.

 

More energy, need for less sleep. After about 3 days, I had to pull an all-nighter at work and stay up until 6am (and get back in before 10). It sucked, for sure, but a lot less than it usually does. It basically felt like I had been up for 3-4 fewer hours than I had been - much less of a "fuck this, I don't even care about these stupid documents, I hate this, it's way too late, I'm exhausted, when can I go home" and more like, well, this is late and I'm getting pretty tired.

 

Gym performance got a bit better - I don't do much cardio since I'm easily bored, but I found myself doing a few extra reps on most exercises and didn't feel quite as beat after 7-8 different 3x10 kind of sets, did a few extra exercises.  I seemed to have a correspondingly bigger appetite and found myself eating more. I haven't really kept it up (but mean to get back).  I also did Bikram Yoga for a couple weeks, for several days each week - I was pretty impressed with myself, and much better able to withstand the heat when coming back from a break than I normally am.

 

My skin is definitely softer and a bit oily - kind of nice, really, since I went on accutane in my early 20s and NY winters are pretty dry. My hair is relatively happy, too.

 

Other stuff I feel like I notice that I might be making up: things look a little brighter/colors look more vibrant, I feel a little down/cranky if I go 4 days or so without a dose - it seems to normalize after a few more days (I'm not following any kind of precise regimen) and a bit cheerier (maybe because I sleep better?) when I'm 'on', complete relief of joint (for me, shoulder, especially if lifting) and lower back pain (it's not usually bad but sometimes flares up a bit).

 

Had a couple of unfortunate episodes with alcohol. I seem to have a higher tolerance, but then up my consumption, and wind up feeling like total garbage the whole next day and/or puking my guts out (which is quite rare for me now that I'm in my mid 30s).

 

Anyways, that's really all I got. I like this stuff and will probably keep it up. The needing less sleep/feeling rested on less sleep is undoubtedly the best part (I work a lot), but the skin/hair stuff is nice too.  Hopefully it doesn't make me go blind with cancer or whatever.

[Pyrion]

If it will be anything like in the rat test, you won't get cancer. All the treated rats did not get cancer while they usually do, so at least for rats, it seems to be a strong cancer prevention.

[Logic]

It's kinda obvious, but still want to say it: If you are seriously into life extension, the most stupid thing to do is to keep smoking

 

You probably know that already. Sorry for my rambling.

 

(Yes; I should stop smoking. It looks like there are a good number of good things in tobacco but they are far outweighed by the bad.  Heating pure tobacco to around 100C in a vaporiser is what I am looking at atm)

 

The perceived benefits of C60oo to a smoker are kinda obvious.

What is not is the possible increase in lung capacity which hints at lung regeneration..?

 

This is also a... 'good' data point for the length of time that C60oo is active in humans. Around 3 months this guy's case.

[lourdaud]

 

If C60 is boosting the performance of mitochondria by any mechanism--be it epigenetic or by interfering with UCP proteins, or even by acting as an antioxidant, that would be the common mechanism which could turn on stem cells and turn off cancer cells. It could also generate a boost to brain function, at least until some homeostatic function brought it back to baseline. For example, when my wife first took C60 she was bursting with energy and was taking on all sorts of responsibilities that would crush a normal person. Unfortunately, the effect faded after a few weeks (but the responsibilities didn't). Subsequent doses did have some effect, but not to the same level as the first dose

 

 

 

This!

For me, C60 was first so effective that I started to feel unsure about it - it's just too damn good! The effects I've seen are huge.

On the physical side I've seen increases in stamina, strength and body composition, even though I don't work out. Much less body ache and muscle soreness. 

 

Most noticeable however has been how energized I've felt. I have more energy and my constant brain fog has been clearing up. For a while I was getting things done that I had postponed for ages, I was making new plans etc.

My mood was also much better and I've had the energy to be nicer to people around me (I'm usually rather grumpy). Much of this have started to fade away however.

 

I'd say the biggest difference, something that I still experience, is that my behavior has started to change, in a good way. I've also started to re-evaluate some firmly hold beliefs.

I suspect I may have problems with general inflammation and too much oxidative stress (CFS like issues), but could all this be explained by C60's anti-oxidant effects? 

The talk about depleted stem cells scares me, to say the least (I couldn't imagine something much more horrifying than to suddenly start to age rapidly.. ), so I've cut down to 4,5 mg once a week.

[Pyrion]

I don't believe a moment in the "stemm cell depletion"-theory. The famous rat experiment would have led to very early dying rats if that were the case. It more looks like the opposite is true: more active stemm cells!

[niner]

There's no evidence that c60 depletes stem cells.  One could just as easily argue that it preserves stem cells by making it more likely that differentiation attempts are successful. 

[Turnbuckle]

While the depletion of stem cells over the long term is a concern (and there is possibly a solution), the fading of C60 effects over the short term likely has a different source--the using up of nutrients by more active mitochondria that are producing more ATP. Creatine and ribose, for instance, are important in ATP synthesis, and are marketed for energy. They ought to be synergistic with C60 use.

[Razor444]

While the depletion of stem cells over the long term is a concern (and there is possibly a solution), the fading of C60 effects over the short term likely has a different source--the using up of nutrients by more active mitochondria that are producing more ATP. Creatine and ribose, for instance, are important in ATP synthesis, and are marketed for energy. They ought to be synergistic with C60 use.

 

Ribose-cysteine may be part of the solution. RibCys, for example.

 

Ribose-cysteine would also increase cellular glutathione.

Edited by Razor444, 17 October 2014 - 01:38 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

While the depletion of stem cells over the long term is a concern (and there is possibly a solution), the fading of C60 effects over the short term likely has a different source--the using up of nutrients by more active mitochondria that are producing more ATP. Creatine and ribose, for instance, are important in ATP synthesis, and are marketed for energy. They ought to be synergistic with C60 use.

 

Ribose-cysteine may be part of the solution. RibCys, for example.

 

Ribose-cysteine would also increase cellular glutathione.

 

 

 

Wouldn't cysteine deplete ATP rather than increase it?

[lourdaud]

While the depletion of stem cells over the long term is a concern (and there is possibly a solution), the fading of C60 effects over the short term likely has a different source--the using up of nutrients by more active mitochondria that are producing more ATP. Creatine and ribose, for instance, are important in ATP synthesis, and are marketed for energy. They ought to be synergistic with C60 use.

I wasn't suggesting depleted stem cells was the cause of the fading of effects (heck I barely know what a stem cell is). I was just saying that I prefer to err on the side of caution, hence the low dose.

I must admit that I feel a bit wary about this substance. It'd be surprising if there wasn't a price to pay for this - the effects are very pronounced. Most surprising is the increase in strength and stamina. I was just out for some HIIT and I can't remember the last time recovering after my sets was this easy, and now I'm not even well-conditioned.
I haven't felt this good in a long time though, so I won't quit. 

I have both creatine and d-ribose and will order Setria l-glutathione. I've never noticed very much from any of them on their own but it'll be interesting to stack them up.

[Razor444]

 

 

While the depletion of stem cells over the long term is a concern (and there is possibly a solution), the fading of C60 effects over the short term likely has a different source--the using up of nutrients by more active mitochondria that are producing more ATP. Creatine and ribose, for instance, are important in ATP synthesis, and are marketed for energy. They ought to be synergistic with C60 use.

 

Ribose-cysteine may be part of the solution. RibCys, for example.

 

Ribose-cysteine would also increase cellular glutathione.

 

 

 

Wouldn't cysteine deplete ATP rather than increase it?

 

 

Because of ATP usage in glutathione synthesis. Good point!

Edited by Razor444, 17 October 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Creating new stem cells would seem a good idea even without C60. There was recently a paper in Nature that described a method for converting somatic cells into stem cells with stressors (a weak acid solution or mechanical stress). This seemed logical as wound healing would be much more rapid if a trauma itself generated stem cells to repair the damage. Unfortunately, mistakes were found in the paper and other scientists were unable to reproduce the results and soon formed a mob that hounded the research group until they retracted the paper and one of them committed suicide. They have now issued an update on their method which they say is more effective--

 

In reviewing our original approach, and the rationale exposing the cells to a low pH, it was recalled that we had originally experimented with the addition of ATP as an external energy source in hope of improving the viability of the cells and the spheres generated. At that time, it was noted that the addition of ATP not only resulted in belter sphere formation, but was also associated with a marked decrease in the pH of the solution to which the mature cells were exposed. Consequently, we started to focus on the effect of low pH alone as a stress to induce the creation of STAP cells, without evaluating other potential beneficial effects of ATP. In recent months, our lab decided to re explore the utility of a low pH solution containing ATP in generating STAP cells. We found that while pH alone resulted in the generation of STAP cells, the use of a low pH solution containing ATP, dramatically increased the efficacy of this conversion. When this acidic ATP solution was used in combination with mechanical trituration of mature cells, the results were even more profound.

 

http://research.bwha...90717e241fe.pdf

 

 

 

Could this be applied in vivo? Possibly. One could take supplements like creatine to increase ATP, apply vinegar to the skin to create an acid environment, and brush the skin to create mechanical stress. I've tried the first two together, and while I have no idea if this created new stem cells, it certainly made my skin look better.

 

[zorba990]

 

Creating new stem cells would seem a good idea even without C60. There was recently a paper in Nature that described a method for converting somatic cells into stem cells with stressors (a weak acid solution or mechanical stress). This seemed logical as wound healing would be much more rapid if a trauma itself generated stem cells to repair the damage. Unfortunately, mistakes were found in the paper and other scientists were unable to reproduce the results and soon formed a mob that hounded the research group until they retracted the paper and one of them committed suicide. They have now issued an update on their method which they say is more effective--

 

In reviewing our original approach, and the rationale exposing the cells to a low pH, it was recalled that we had originally experimented with the addition of ATP as an external energy source in hope of improving the viability of the cells and the spheres generated. At that time, it was noted that the addition of ATP not only resulted in belter sphere formation, but was also associated with a marked decrease in the pH of the solution to which the mature cells were exposed. Consequently, we started to focus on the effect of low pH alone as a stress to induce the creation of STAP cells, without evaluating other potential beneficial effects of ATP. In recent months, our lab decided to re explore the utility of a low pH solution containing ATP in generating STAP cells. We found that while pH alone resulted in the generation of STAP cells, the use of a low pH solution containing ATP, dramatically increased the efficacy of this conversion. When this acidic ATP solution was used in combination with mechanical trituration of mature cells, the results were even more profound.

 

http://research.bwha...90717e241fe.pdf

 

 

 

Could this be applied in vivo? Possibly. One could take supplements like creatine to increase ATP, apply vinegar to the skin to create an acid environment, and brush the skin to create mechanical stress. I've tried the first two together, and while I have no idea if this created new stem cells, it certainly made my skin look better.

 

 

Or high rep weight training?  Would lactic acid be an effective stimulus?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Or high rep weight training?  Would lactic acid be an effective stimulus?

 

 

 

Good point. No pain, no stem cells.

[niner]

 

Creating new stem cells would seem a good idea even without C60. There was recently a paper in Nature that described a method for converting somatic cells into stem cells with stressors (a weak acid solution or mechanical stress). This seemed logical as wound healing would be much more rapid if a trauma itself generated stem cells to repair the damage. Unfortunately, mistakes were found in the paper and other scientists were unable to reproduce the results and soon formed a mob that hounded the research group until they retracted the paper and one of them committed suicide. They have now issued an update on their method which they say is more effective--

 

In reviewing our original approach, and the rationale exposing the cells to a low pH, it was recalled that we had originally experimented with the addition of ATP as an external energy source in hope of improving the viability of the cells and the spheres generated. At that time, it was noted that the addition of ATP not only resulted in belter sphere formation, but was also associated with a marked decrease in the pH of the solution to which the mature cells were exposed. Consequently, we started to focus on the effect of low pH alone as a stress to induce the creation of STAP cells, without evaluating other potential beneficial effects of ATP. In recent months, our lab decided to re explore the utility of a low pH solution containing ATP in generating STAP cells. We found that while pH alone resulted in the generation of STAP cells, the use of a low pH solution containing ATP, dramatically increased the efficacy of this conversion. When this acidic ATP solution was used in combination with mechanical trituration of mature cells, the results were even more profound.

 

http://research.bwha...90717e241fe.pdf

 

 

 

Could this be applied in vivo? Possibly. One could take supplements like creatine to increase ATP, apply vinegar to the skin to create an acid environment, and brush the skin to create mechanical stress. I've tried the first two together, and while I have no idea if this created new stem cells, it certainly made my skin look better.

 

There was a big kerfluffle about this paper, resulting in a retraction.  However, Vacanti and Kojima still believe in it, and it will probably turn out to be real, at least at some level.  Science lurches more or less forward...

[Razor444]

For ATP to be biologically active, it requires Mg.

 

And:

 

Magnesium is primarily found within the cell [7] where it acts as a counter ion for the energy-rich ATP and nuclear acids. Magnesium is a cofactor in >300 enzymatic reactions [8, 10]. Magnesium critically stabilizes enzymes, including many ATP-generating reactions [14]. ATP is required universally for glucose utilization, synthesis of fat, proteins, nucleic acids and coenzymes, muscle contraction, methyl group transfer and many other processes, and interference with magnesium metabolism also influences these functions [14]. Thus, one should keep in mind that ATP metabolism, muscle contraction and relaxation, normal neurological function and release of neurotransmitters are all magnesium dependent. It is also important to note that magnesium contributes to the regulation of vascular tone, heart rhythm, platelet-activated thrombosis and bone formation (see review by Cunningham et al. [28] in this supplement) [6, 7, 10, 29, 30].

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Razor444, 17 October 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[PerfectSeek]

My initial responses to c60 were pretty miraculous as well, but similar to others it has dissipated as time has gone on.  I feel less superhuman than I did when I first started.  

 

I don't think this is a result of just getting used to the effects.  Objectively, my exercise tolerance, desire to exercise, and CFS symptom rating showed an initial peak followed by a leveling off.  

 

I still like it quite a bit, an increase in endurance is what I notice most.  It has not cured my CFS though.  I am currently taking 10-15mg, once every 2 weeks.  

 

  

[Astroid]

Yesterday I gave 2 CC of Carbon 60 to 2 of my construction labors, and a ex-nurse who had a bad bicycle accident, really hurting his shoulder.. as he can not lift 1 lb straight armed.. up to his shoulder height.  This ex-nurse was a weightlifter also. 

All reported positive results in 1 day.. The painter/electrician had back pain yesterday.. and has been in a funk since he split with his girlfriend.. who has his 4th kid. Today he had no pain and was upbeat.. he was talking so fast I had to get him to slow down to understand him. He said time flew by working Sunday.  

The Contractor who did the sheet rock.. and does back hoe and such work. .. a big guy.. said he had some back pain and it disappeared during the day after after taking the C60, plus he was getting around to cleaning out his garage.. and found all this motivation.. that nothing was stopping him from getting it done. He could not believe how good he felt.. and said it was not like a drug high or anything like that.  He was so happy to hear of C60.. as he knows he is wearing his body out in construction.  

The ex-nurse.. had not paid attention.. but I had him move his arm around. .. and he thought it felt better.. but could not lift 5 lbs.. but then he said he washed and waxed 2 cars yesterday.. and had no pain.. which he did not expect.. so he gave the credit to C60.

[caliope]

I don't know quite what to say about all this, except that maybe you need an outfit to go along with your superhero like activities? I suggest a buckyball on the chest and of course you must have a cape. 

[geo12the]

 

 

Creating new stem cells would seem a good idea even without C60. There was recently a paper in Nature that described a method for converting somatic cells into stem cells with stressors (a weak acid solution or mechanical stress). This seemed logical as wound healing would be much more rapid if a trauma itself generated stem cells to repair the damage. Unfortunately, mistakes were found in the paper and other scientists were unable to reproduce the results and soon formed a mob that hounded the research group until they retracted the paper and one of them committed suicide. They have now issued an update on their method which they say is more effective--

 

In reviewing our original approach, and the rationale exposing the cells to a low pH, it was recalled that we had originally experimented with the addition of ATP as an external energy source in hope of improving the viability of the cells and the spheres generated. At that time, it was noted that the addition of ATP not only resulted in belter sphere formation, but was also associated with a marked decrease in the pH of the solution to which the mature cells were exposed. Consequently, we started to focus on the effect of low pH alone as a stress to induce the creation of STAP cells, without evaluating other potential beneficial effects of ATP. In recent months, our lab decided to re explore the utility of a low pH solution containing ATP in generating STAP cells. We found that while pH alone resulted in the generation of STAP cells, the use of a low pH solution containing ATP, dramatically increased the efficacy of this conversion. When this acidic ATP solution was used in combination with mechanical trituration of mature cells, the results were even more profound.

 

http://research.bwha...90717e241fe.pdf

 

 

 

Could this be applied in vivo? Possibly. One could take supplements like creatine to increase ATP, apply vinegar to the skin to create an acid environment, and brush the skin to create mechanical stress. I've tried the first two together, and while I have no idea if this created new stem cells, it certainly made my skin look better.

 

There was a big kerfluffle about this paper, resulting in a retraction.  However, Vacanti and Kojima still believe in it, and it will probably turn out to be real, at least at some level.  Science lurches more or less forward...

 

 

Sad story. The main researcher is out of touch with reality and the PI committed suicide:

 

http://www.latimes.c...0805-story.html

[aribadabar]

So I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm hyposmic. I lost much of my sense of smell in a severe infection episode last year. So unfortunately, I can't be sure whether it's just due to that, or something more, along the lines of the link between hyposmia and increased morbidity.

 

But for the past week or so, I've noticed increasing episodes of normosmia (normal smell). It would come and go for several seconds here and there, which might have been my imagination. But just an hour ago, I opened the door to step outside for a break. A light wind burst into my home. I smelled the smell of fresh air, which I've hardly noticed in months. I just got over a modest cold, so perhaps this made the contrast all the more dramatic. So I stood outside my door like a mindless idiot, gasping huge inhalations of air for several minutes, trying to detect every single subtle odor wafting along with it. It wasn't perfect. For one thing, I smelled a bit of sun lotion even though there was none around. (This might be because I've used sun lotion as an odor sensitivity test, so I have more circuitry for it.) Nevertheless, I was so thrilled with the experience, that I spent the next several minutes learning what my home actually smells like. I must have gone through half the fridge testing the odors of various foods, which was sort of like walking through my culinary past. I was equally ecstatic to open my closet, only to be inundated with the odor of cardboard boxes, as mundane as that may sound to you.

 

I don't know of any reason why this should happen, or whether it will continue to improve, apart from my own natural stem cell activity slowly cranking away.

 

At the same time, I've started noticing periods up to a minute or more where I feel more connected to the world, like when I was younger. I'm more "here". There's absolutely no way to quantify this, but it's unmistakable.

 

Maybe it's all coincidence, as I seem to remember reading another post in which the poster continued to have hyposmia despite c60oo therapy. But I think it's worth reporting here nonetheless.

 

This post made me focus on my olfactory function and today, 1 day after my weekly C60 dose, I sense a heightened sense of smell than previous days. I don't think I have any loss of smell but today it is markedly stronger as I sense some very subtle ones.

Same sensation occurred a couple of weeks ago but then I did not recall if it was soon after my C60 intake.

 

I will try to keep note to see if it is there is any correlation .

[wbray123]

I have been taking C60 off and on for a few months and think it has helped with my jogging, which I just started this spring. I'm curious about the effects reported on alcohol tolerance or metabolism. Has anyone considered measuring their blood alcohol level after drinking to see if it is line with expected results? I don't have a breath test available (and don't usually drink that much). If this affects metabolism, could it help prevent a DUI by making the alcohol test low (as well as the field or observational tests). If it only affects tolerance someone could feel (and maybe act) fine but test over the limit, making a DUI arrest come as a surprise. I'm a lawyer too and wondering about this issue. Anyone up for a test?

[sthira]

Funny, everyone mentions alcohol tolerance whilst on c60. What if you don't feel that? I've been taking it for two plus years now -- no effects, no nothing, still feel drunk after a few stupid beers, nothing extraordinari. Anyone else feel nothing?

[Sasha_]

Funny, everyone mentions alcohol tolerance whilst on c60. What if you don't feel that? I've been taking it for two plus years now -- no effects, no nothing, still feel drunk after a few stupid beers, nothing extraordinari. Anyone else feel nothing?

 

As I stated sometime earlier in the thread, I do not really feel any alcohol tolerance effect from it, but c60 makes the day after so much less painfull than it used to be. How about that, does it at least give you a sense that recovery from drinking is somewhat faster than before ?

[niner]

I find the alcohol thing to be the most distressing side effect of c60.  I love the taste of a great beer and the bouquet of a great whiskey, but dang it, I like that buzz, too.  I do still get drunk, but it's not the same experience.  I think that there are two things going on with c60 and alcohol.  The first is some sort of receptor-mediated effect that alters the anesthetic property of ethanol.  There are a number of receptors involved here, and it could be any or all that are affected by 60.  The second part of the equation is a hangover protection effect, probably involving ROS detoxification.  At least these things are compensatory.  I tend to drink more than I might have without c60, but it doesn't have any obvious negative effects.  However, just because they aren't obvious, that doesn't mean the added alcohol isn't hurting me.  Lately I've tempered my intake over this concern.

 

I'd love to see measurements of blood alcohol content +/- c60.  My expectation is that there will be no effect.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I'd love to see measurements of blood alcohol content +/- c60.  My expectation is that there will be no effect.

 

 

You can get a breathalyzer for $25.

[tintinet]

Funny, everyone mentions alcohol tolerance whilst on c60. What if you don't feel that? I've been taking it for two plus years now -- no effects, no nothing, still feel drunk after a few stupid beers, nothing extraordinari. Anyone else feel nothing?

 

 

Yes. 5 liters worth over the past couple of years. I like the taste, but no effects, AFAICT, except for a possible sleep enhancing effect.  Probably just the olive oil, though.

Edited by tintinet, 24 October 2014 - 02:02 AM.

[niner]

 

 Anyone else feel nothing?

 

Yes. 5 liters worth over the past couple of years. I like the taste, but no effects, AFAICT, except for a possible sleep enhancing effect.  Probably just the olive oil, though.

 

Are you sure there's c60 in it?  If it's at the typical commercial concentration of 0.8mg/ml, that would be 4000 mg; about 2 grams a year.  Are you making it, or do you buy it?

[resveratrol_guy]

All this chatter about potentiating the short term effects of c60oo to the long term seems like it might lead to the next great discovery about how best to utilize this compound. If you experiment with this, please post results here. In particular, if you're a longterm c60oo user, can you increase supermanness by changing your diet or supplements in some way?

 

While I, too, have noticed that the early effects dissipated somewhat (less ability to talk correctly at light speed like Astroid's electrician, less vivid visualization capacity, and somewhat less endurance), the fact is that I'm still better on it than off it. (I went off for 2 weeks just to test the kill-the-weak-mitochondria theory. While it might have worked, my Lumosity memory scores dropped along with my endurance and olfactory acuity, so I didn't like that and don't plan to do it again.)

 

Edited by resveratrol_guy, 24 October 2014 - 03:11 PM.