1023 replies to this topic

[niner]

I'm not worried about it myself.  I never changed my oral care routine.  I dose monthly, so it's not like bugs are going to be bathing in c60oo all the time.  If I thought I had an active bacterial infection, I might hold off on a dose of c60.  Otherwise, I'm really not very germ-phobic.  I do like the idea of maintaining a normal healthy flora.

[Kalliste]

In the dental community there is a growing aversion of anti-bacterial chemicals in general, save from the few people who's paychecks come from Listerine and others. The only chemical you need is a low dose of fluoride, I use childrens toothpaste since I have a low meal frequency and a perfect manual cleaning technique with electric brush, floss and two sizes of interdental brushes. The mechanical cleaning is the good stuff. Triclosan, Xylitol, listerine, CHX, hydrogen peroxide all really mess with the bacterial flora and they get to the stomach wheter you wan't to or not, you can't avoid swallowing a bit of the stuff even if you try hard.

 

The only chemical that seems favorable according to what is known today would be Delmopinol but I have not tried that myself.

 

Unless you get your c60 via IV you are still going to be feeding the massive oral bacterial horde with it so why bother sloshing nasty anti-microbials around?

 

Buy an electric brush, staining pills and individually fitted approximal cleaning tools, that's all you need. A fluoride rinse for those who can't be bothered to cut their meal frequency to 1-3 meals a day too.

[Logic]

In the dental community there is a growing aversion of anti-bacterial chemicals in general, save from the few people who's paychecks come from Listerine and others. The only chemical you need is a low dose of fluoride, I use childrens toothpaste since I have a low meal frequency and a perfect manual cleaning technique with electric brush, floss and two sizes of interdental brushes. The mechanical cleaning is the good stuff. Triclosan, Xylitol, listerine, CHX, hydrogen peroxide all really mess with the bacterial flora and they get to the stomach wheter you wan't to or not, you can't avoid swallowing a bit of the stuff even if you try hard.
 
The only chemical that seems favorable according to what is known today would be Delmopinol but I have not tried that myself.
 
Unless you get your c60 via IV you are still going to be feeding the massive oral bacterial horde with it so why bother sloshing nasty anti-microbials around?
 
Buy an electric brush, staining pills and individually fitted approximal cleaning tools, that's all you need. A fluoride rinse for those who can't be bothered to cut their meal frequency to 1-3 meals a day too.

Oil Pulling
http://www.longecity...umtooth-health/

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Good health might not be without its financial costs, but at least, we have something of an option

 

And now, the following impromptu experiment...

 

So I've been having this virulent fungus problem -- not me, but my fish. I've seen fin and mouth fungus many times before, but this stuff seems to kill them within a day or two of symptoms. First, they get disoriented and forget how to find food. Then then rapidly die. I hit the tank with victoria green at the recommended dose (typical fungus treatment), but I still see the same fish with the same small fungus patches as yesterday. The worst case is a female swordtail, whose tail has become frayed and white -- just like my other female swordtail, who died a few days after looking like that. I'm going to have to hit the tank with more chemicals soon because I'm afraid I'm about to lose all my fish, otherwise. Most of them are fine, but one or two a day seem to contract the fungus, and die shortly thereafter.

 

In my desperation, I decided to pump them up on c60oo. I mixed flakes and brine shrimp powder with about 3 mg of my c60oo. It made about 3 level teaspoons of food, which they ate almost completely, including the ailing swordtail. Considering that my average fish weighs maybe 10 g, and I have about 30, we're looking at about 10 mg/kg. Some of the oil is still present on the surface, and likely will not be eaten. So maybe 5 mg/kg is more accurate. But do the math. It's like a human downing a few 100 ml bottles of the Baati stuff in one go. So if nothing else, consider this a study in tolerable upper intake level. At the moment, 10 minutes post experiment, my fish are unusually subdued, mostly hovering in the plants. They're usually active throughout the tank. No doubt, they're quite stuffed. Hopefully this won't kill them. Based on her behavior and tail condition, I don't expect my swordtail to survive. It's also hard to see how c60oo could be expected to intervene in a fungus infection, most of which is disconnected from general circulation. But it's my best option under the circumstances.

 

 

Sounds like magic. Since fungi have mitochondria and C60 appears to boost the activity of mitochondria, this could easily make things worse.

 

 

 That's why I always use mouthwash before C60oo ...

 

 

You worried C60's effect on bacteria? Since bacteria don't have mitochondria, it's unlikely there would be any whatsoever.

[niner]

You worried C60's effect on bacteria? Since bacteria don't have mitochondria, it's unlikely there would be any whatsoever.

 

True, they don't have mitochodria, but they do have membranes, and one of the ways the immune system attacks bacteria is with a ROS storm known as a "respiratory burst".   C60 in the bacterial membrane might, at least hypothetically, make the bacteria more robust against this attack.  It could probably be argued that c60 would make it harder for the immune system to mount a respiratory burst in the first place.  All I can say there is that there doesn't seem to be a rash of bacterial infections in c60 users.  If anything, it seems that we might get fewer infections, probably due to improved barrier function.

 

This is all hypothetical, and I wouldn't want to give the impression that I was losing sleep over any of it- I'm not. 

[caliope]

I agree, nothing to get very excited about. But, our flora are important. Gotta love symbiosis. We spend lots of time figuring out how C60 affects human cells, but we forget we depend heavily on our gut flora. So I am eager not to mess it up if I can avoid it. Rats have mouth and gut bacteria as well, of course, and they didn't get super bugs from C60. But perhaps theirs is different? 

[mikey]

 

You worried C60's effect on bacteria? Since bacteria don't have mitochondria, it's unlikely there would be any whatsoever.

 

True, they don't have mitochodria, but they do have membranes, and one of the ways the immune system attacks bacteria is with a ROS storm known as a "respiratory burst".   C60 in the bacterial membrane might, at least hypothetically, make the bacteria more robust against this attack.  It could probably be argued that c60 would make it harder for the immune system to mount a respiratory burst in the first place.  All I can say there is that there doesn't seem to be a rash of bacterial infections in c60 users.  If anything, it seems that we might get fewer infections, probably due to improved barrier function.

 

This is all hypothetical, and I wouldn't want to give the impression that I was losing sleep over any of it- I'm not. 

 

 

Agreed, and I will never put fluoride in body. It's a poison, even in small amounts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9383753

[Astroid]

My experiment at killing a 50 year active skin bacteria infection with C60.

 

I have not reported this on this before, as I was waiting on longer term results.  But to calm down the mania on this topic I consider this relevant.

 

At 16 of age I turned off the cold water in a YMCA shower by mistake and the scalding hot water was hitting my scalp. I fell trying to get out and it kept hitting my scalp... finally I rolled out from under it. Then I got into the swimming pool and tried to cool it off.. A very slow growing bacterial infection resulted.  I have had a culture, so I know what it is. Visiting at least 20 MD and trying all the lotions, potions, light treatment, etc.. and spending at least $1,000 with each MD. They achieved zero results.  Until I had a double MERSA ear and throat infection a couple of years ago, which I though was the bacteria spreading.. The MDs could not image that ..  but the massive 2 IVs of Antibiotics I was on for 8 weeks improved my scalp by some 35%. It took the scalp cultural report before the infection MD could find the correct antibiotic that would work by the way. 

 

My understanding was C60 was antibacterial.  6 weeks ago I applied it to my scalp. Since the Antibiotics interfere with the Iron in the bacteria cell walls, which kills them as they try to multiply, I assumed maybe this would be the same case. It appears to be, as the progress is slow but positive. I assume it is working mainly by stopping the bacteria as they try to duplicate. 

 

While the inflammation decreased the next day, it took 3 weeks before I could tell there was progress with the numerous smaller spots.  Now after 6 weeks there is a definite decline in the amount of smaller spots, and decrease in size in some of the larger sores. The worst hard skin sore that has been there for years and never responded to anything had declined in thickness, tenderness and the skin toughness.  Others seem to turn into dry hard spots with root cores that pull out when they die.     

 

I only notice progress when I keep the C60 on the areas for 10 or more hours a day.

 

My hypothesis then it C60 interferes with bacteria cell walls and decreases their ability to reproduce. Internally of course it could also improve your immunity to kill bacteria.

 

      

[caliope]

 

 

My hypothesis then it C60 interferes with bacteria cell walls and decreases their ability to reproduce. Internally of course it could also improve your immunity to kill bacteria.

 

This could be the case, but I would like to propose another hypothesis. Most of the bacteria on human skin and membranes are anaerobic, and these are the cause of most infections in these areas. The C60 could be increasing the oxygen in you scalp, thus killing the bacteria. This would be the same mechanism by which hyperbaric oxygen chambers work to heal infections. 

[Astroid]

I am also using the C60 in my Neti pot for nasal wash where I have constant dryness. I assume that is the same bacteria... as I think the bacteria is in my sinus area now.  Again I am seeing slow progress as I am able to breath more day after treatement. Plus I am having nasal dripping I have not had before. Either way I am happy to make progress.  I had all but given up on finding anything that would help this problem, less alone cure it. 

[resveratrol_guy]

This is ridiculous. I got kicked out of the fitness center today for "treadmill abuse". I was trying to measure my oxygen at close to top speed for 3 minutes, when this angry lady started shouting at me about not being allowed to run that fast because it was "abusive" to the treadmill. I basically ignored her rant, so she fetched the facility manager, who ordered me to stop. I asked the manager if it would be OK if I could continue at some lower speed. I said "I wasn't running any faster than the treadmill allows me to. Just give me a maximum number, and I promise to stick to it." She replied that she didn't know, and needed to check with the manufacturer. An hour later, she got back to me and said that actually the manufacturer permitted this sort of heavy activity, but asked me to restrict my running to late night hours, so as to avoid people like this lady who might see it as abusive. Frickin C60! Now I need a new gym membership or a new treadmill to go along with my new furniture...

 

[mikey]

I am also using the C60 in my Neti pot for nasal wash where I have constant dryness. I assume that is the same bacteria... as I think the bacteria is in my sinus area now.  Again I am seeing slow progress as I am able to breath more day after treatement. Plus I am having nasal dripping I have not had before. Either way I am happy to make progress.  I had all but given up on finding anything that would help this problem, less alone cure it. 

 

As to killing bacteria, has anyone tried colloidal silver. The best brand I'm told by a credible practitioner is MezoSilver. I put 6 sprays in my mouth after brushing my teeth to kill bugs. 

 

UCLA did work on in that showed efficacy. 

http://beforeitsnews...er-2444096.html

 "Thus it was discovered that colloidal silver can actually kill over 650 bacteria, fungi, parasites, molds and fungi that have the potential to sprout diseases. At the same time the tests established that colloidal silver has no known side effects."

[aribadabar]

 6 weeks ago I applied it to my scalp. 

.....

While the inflammation decreased the next day, it took 3 weeks before I could tell there was progress with the numerous smaller spots.  Now after 6 weeks there is a definite decline in the amount of smaller spots, and decrease in size in some of the larger sores.

.....

I only notice progress when I keep the C60 on the areas for 10 or more hours a day.

 

Just wanted to confirm - is this after a a daily administration topically? And are the topical and oral routes started simultaneously ? If not, have you noticed any improvement before starting the topical application?

Edited by aribadabar, 25 November 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Astroid]

Aribadabar - >>>Just wanted to confirm - is this after a a daily administration topically? And are the topical and oral routes started simultaneously ? If not, have you noticed any improvement before starting the topical application?<<<

 

Normally I topically apply C60 to my scalp 4-5 days a week.  Depending on where I am going. Also having tried other things, I find giving my scalp time to repair and heal helps.  If one sleeps with C60 on the scalp, you can use a shower cap to keep the oil from staining the sheets.

 

I applied C60 to my scalp first and after a week started adding it to my Neti Pot, but I normally only use it once a week.  Afterwards I normally could breath well for 3-4 days, with the C60 is seems I now can breath better for 5-6 days...The nasal dripping seems to have resulted from the C60, as that is a new occurrence.   So progress is slower with my sinus than with the scalp, maybe because I am not applying it daily.  In both cases I start with a small dose and gradually increase it, in case there are any problems.

 

A nurse friend recommended trying to add DMSO to help the C60 penetrate my scalp.  I have added this maybe 35% of the time, and really can not tell any difference. 

 

However, originally I had a pinched nerve in the center of my hip that caused spasms and pain in both the hip and lower right back for 5-6 months. Nothing helped it, but the C60 gave me 70% relief the first night. Now after 6 weeks I have almost 100% relief.  But I can still feel the pinched nerve and some tightness in my lower back. I have been painting a rehab off and on and experience no increase in pain, spasms or soreness at all.  That was a major surprise.  

[caliope]

Frickin C60! Now I need a new gym membership or a new treadmill to go along with my new furniture...

 

Such a conundrum. How does one choose between A. having more energy, having to get a new gym membership and furniture or B. having less energy and keeping the same gym membership and furniture? 

 

Seriously, just get someone to time you at the track doing Tabata sprints. That will show you quickly how much effect C60 has, and you won't risk upsetting the gym nazis. 

[dankis]

This is ridiculous. I got kicked out of the fitness center today for "treadmill abuse". I was trying to measure my oxygen at close to top speed for 3 minutes, when this angry lady started shouting at me about not being allowed to run that fast because it was "abusive" to the treadmill. I basically ignored her rant, so she fetched the facility manager, who ordered me to stop. I asked the manager if it would be OK if I could continue at some lower speed. I said "I wasn't running any faster than the treadmill allows me to. Just give me a maximum number, and I promise to stick to it." She replied that she didn't know, and needed to check with the manufacturer. An hour later, she got back to me and said that actually the manufacturer permitted this sort of heavy activity, but asked me to restrict my running to late night hours, so as to avoid people like this lady who might see it as abusive. Frickin C60! Now I need a new gym membership or a new treadmill to go along with my new furniture...

 

 
Haha , Nice one . How fast have you tried to run? Damned jealous "lady". IMO Manager shouldn't ask you to limit your activities because random person doesn't like that you are running faster than he/she is able to.
I envy your patience.

[resveratrol_guy]

Well I cranked it up to 9.9, which is the max it can display on the LEDs with 0% incline. To me, it felt like a pace slightly less than a sprint. Sorry I don't know how to translate this into more useful units, but could do it if it matters. I think the important point is that, while my oxygen is nominally 98% (IMO 99% is optimal, not 100%), it dove to 86% after 3 minutes of this. (That was the whole point of this exercise: I was trying to determine why I was running out of breath after about 4 minutes. I guess I got the answer, despite being cut short. Granted, it might have been a bit higher, had I not had to burn energy dealing with this lady!)

 

But I guess this brings a larger issue to mind, which is how do we actually utilize oxygen relative to our c60oo dose history? All these anecdotes suggest that we simply use less, but does this effect also apply to high intensity exercise conditions, above and beyond normal metabolic function? I don't know but I would love to see a graph of monthlong-dose-vs-SpO2 at the same treadmill speed. Perhaps at some level c60oo gums up the system and becomes counterproductive.

 

A cruder, easier vesion of this experiment would be to stabilize for a week on a given dose, then check your oxygen after, say, 1 minute of maximum treadmill. If any of you have a stable lab environment without nutcases trying to eject you for running too fast, perhaps you could try this and share what you learn.

 

caliope, I don't have access to a track. At this point, I think it's back to the dirt trails.

 

[cani!]

Probably 9.9 mph. 

 

Since you were pushing yourself for 3 minutes, you probably were in you anaerobic zone. So your use of 02 dips at that point, which is normal. You create an oxygen deficit in your muscles by running at near maximum for that amount of time. 

 

How fast you can recover AFTER the interval is more indicative of good 02 use. So if you would want to quantify the effect of C60, you could, for example, calculate how much your heart rate drops after 1 minute of rest after your interval. You would probably have to take into account the effect of getting accustomed to the workout regimen though before quantifying the effect. 

 

For example, I do the terrible ten treadmill challenge (10 x 30 seconds sprints followed by 30 seconds rest at 10% incline as fast as i can maintain) every week. I've been doing them for almost a year and no really improvements were seen after the first month or so. After taking C60 for about a month, I noticed I was able to do them 1 mph faster than usual which is a lot . I also noticed my heart rate would go from 195 to 150 in one minute after the interval. With C60, it would go from 195 to 140. So either it helped pushed the anaerobic threshold further by scavenging more enzymes or helped carrying oxygen afterwards lowering my heart pulse. 

 

I'm willing to log in my results of your proprosed experiment but I don't have access to a oxygen monitor. I have access to a pretty precise HR monitor though.... 

 

Lemme know :-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by cani!, 26 November 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Probably 9.9 mph. 

 

Since you were pushing yourself for 3 minutes, you probably were in you anaerobic zone. So your use of 02 dips at that point, which is normal. You create an oxygen deficit in your muscles by running at near maximum for that amount of time. 

 

How fast you can recover AFTER the interval is more indicative of good 02 use. So if you would want to quantify the effect of C60, you could, for example, calculate how much your heart rate drops after 1 minute of rest after your interval. You would probably have to take into account the effect of getting accustomed to the workout regimen though before quantifying the effect. 

 

For example, I do the terrible ten treadmill challenge (10 x 30 seconds sprints followed by 30 seconds rest at 10% incline as fast as i can maintain) every week. I've been doing them for almost a year and no really improvements were seen after the first month or so. After taking C60 for about a month, I noticed I was able to do them 1 mph faster than usual which is a lot . I also noticed my heart rate would go from 195 to 150 in one minute after the interval. With C60, it would go from 195 to 140. So either it helped pushed the anaerobic threshold further by scavenging more enzymes or helped carrying oxygen afterwards lowering my heart pulse. 

 

I'm willing to log in my results of your proprosed experiment but I don't have access to a oxygen monitor. I have access to a pretty precise HR monitor though.... 

 

Lemme know :-)

 

It sounds like you're much more stable in your results than I am, so you're ideally suited for this sort of experiment. Based on your heart rate data it sounds like c60oo is more helpful under lower stress loads, which makes sense, as otherwise there's so much oxidation occurring that it can't keep up. If you can log and report your results with varying doses, I think that would be of interest here. A week is probably the shortest time period, but a month is probably unnecessarily long. Heart rate is interesting, but oxygen is critically important. And of course speedup/steadystate time needs to be essentially uniform. I'm sure others have some better ideas about to best control the experiment.

 

IMO Nonin and Welch-Allyn are pretty much top-of-the-line oximeters. There are cheaper alternatives easily found on the Web, which tend to underrate SpO2, but are still useful because they can show differences fairly accurately. Note that oximeters which fit entirely on the fingertip, as opposed to oximeters which merely use a finger clip, are problematic because they tend to fall off during running due to their weight.

[cani!]

 

Probably 9.9 mph. 

 

Since you were pushing yourself for 3 minutes, you probably were in you anaerobic zone. So your use of 02 dips at that point, which is normal. You create an oxygen deficit in your muscles by running at near maximum for that amount of time. 

 

How fast you can recover AFTER the interval is more indicative of good 02 use. So if you would want to quantify the effect of C60, you could, for example, calculate how much your heart rate drops after 1 minute of rest after your interval. You would probably have to take into account the effect of getting accustomed to the workout regimen though before quantifying the effect. 

 

For example, I do the terrible ten treadmill challenge (10 x 30 seconds sprints followed by 30 seconds rest at 10% incline as fast as i can maintain) every week. I've been doing them for almost a year and no really improvements were seen after the first month or so. After taking C60 for about a month, I noticed I was able to do them 1 mph faster than usual which is a lot . I also noticed my heart rate would go from 195 to 150 in one minute after the interval. With C60, it would go from 195 to 140. So either it helped pushed the anaerobic threshold further by scavenging more enzymes or helped carrying oxygen afterwards lowering my heart pulse. 

 

I'm willing to log in my results of your proprosed experiment but I don't have access to a oxygen monitor. I have access to a pretty precise HR monitor though.... 

 

Lemme know :-)

 

It sounds like you're much more stable in your results than I am, so you're ideally suited for this sort of experiment. Based on your heart rate data it sounds like c60oo is more helpful under lower stress loads, which makes sense, as otherwise there's so much oxidation occurring that it can't keep up. If you can log and report your results with varying doses, I think that would be of interest here. A week is probably the shortest time period, but a month is probably unnecessarily long. Heart rate is interesting, but oxygen is critically important. And of course speedup/steadystate time needs to be essentially uniform. I'm sure others have some better ideas about to best control the experiment.

 

IMO Nonin and Welch-Allyn are pretty much top-of-the-line oximeters. There are cheaper alternatives easily found on the Web, which tend to underrate SpO2, but are still useful because they can show differences fairly accurately. Note that oximeters which fit entirely on the fingertip, as opposed to oximeters which merely use a finger clip, are problematic because they tend to fall off during running due to their weight.

 

 

Ok. I started a log. I will not change anything from my usual workout until christmas (then it is booze, party and that ever so satisfying feeling of letting go of your discipline :-) I will try different dosage of C60 

 

If you want to you can contribute and write directly on the new thread as to not derail this one. It will make for a good case study me thinks 

 

Cheers :-)

[resting]

What is your best time on Concept2 rowing machine.  500m, 1000m, 2000m.   I find this can give you a very accurate picture.

[ambivalent]

Around 3 years ago I developed an abscess under my capped front tooth. The subsequent root canal work was not successful and the infection returned. However, through fasting, allicin and incoorporating an improved, lower sugar, diet I was able to manage the abscess without it ever becoming too problematic.

 

I started using c60 in July last year in fairly small doeses up to 8-10 ml and sometimes months apart (I bought four bottles, froze them, and have not quite finished them). Around a couple of months ago I started taking c60 weekly, often to see if there is any synergistic effect with modafinil (which I believe there may well be, however it is unclear as modafinil has historically yielded inconsisent results (with me), although typically delivering an effect). Anyhow, 2 weeks ago tomorrow I took 3x100mg of modafinil staggered over 36 hours (with c60 at the onset) which managed to engineer a period of 48 hours without sleep. I didn't notice any sensitivity in the affected area during this period (though increased sensitivity have been occurred just not noticed) but on the Monday it arrived with a bang. 

 

By the end of the Monday I had decided to start a dry fast to combat it (having already taken quite quite a large quantity of allicin). I endured the fast for around 2.5 days, but with little improved effect on the abscess. I broke the fast and tried salt water, turmeric, bicarb soda lots of allicin. There was some temprorary improvement in sensitivity but the boil (as the abscess was now peiodontal) didn't recede and the sensitivity returned. I succumbed to the dentist's calling and had the abscess drained (but as have yet not taken antibiotics, just allicin). The dentist told me the abscess can arrive overnight,spontaeously. That said the infectio hadn't acted this way over the three years - increase in sensitivity was typically gradual and could be redressed - it had never been anywhere near as bad over the previous 3 years as it was that Monday and subsequently during the week. Nearly one week on, it is currently fine.

 

I had wondered whether the inevitable clobbering the immune system received from 48 hours without sleep (and possibly fairly high levels of sugar over the interval)  tipped the scales towards the infection and resulted in said abscess. However, the presence of c60 in my system was also central to my thinking, it was (surely) at best a passive onlooker as the infection took hold, at worst, I'd have thought, instrumental.     

 

   

[niner]

If you can log and report your results with varying doses, I think that would be of interest here. A week is probably the shortest time period, but a month is probably unnecessarily long. Heart rate is interesting, but oxygen is critically important. And of course speedup/steadystate time needs to be essentially uniform. I'm sure others have some better ideas about to best control the experiment.

 
Ok. I started a log. I will not change anything from my usual workout until christmas (then it is booze, party and that ever so satisfying feeling of letting go of your discipline :-) I will try different dosage of C60

Depending on the doses you are using, I think you are going to need a very long wash-out period between doses. The effects relating to efficiency of oxygen utilization show up at rather low dosage, but don't seem to change much with increasing dose. Larger doses just make the effects last longer, and they last for a pretty long time even with low doses. This is based on closely following peoples' reports here, and my own experiences with c60, but isn't formalized. I am very interested in seeing if my crude observations hold up in a more formal test. I think the best way to run this experiment would be to wait as long as you can without using any c60, then start with a very low dose, like a tenth of a milligram, and work your way up. If you are increasing dose, then you don't have to wait very long, and can simply assume that most of the previous dose is still on board.

It would be ideal if you could find someone who was already acclimated to endurance exercise so that there wouldn't be a training effect, but that had never had c60. That way you would know that you are starting from a clean baseline.

[cani!]

 

 

If you can log and report your results with varying doses, I think that would be of interest here. A week is probably the shortest time period, but a month is probably unnecessarily long. Heart rate is interesting, but oxygen is critically important. And of course speedup/steadystate time needs to be essentially uniform. I'm sure others have some better ideas about to best control the experiment.

 
Ok. I started a log. I will not change anything from my usual workout until christmas (then it is booze, party and that ever so satisfying feeling of letting go of your discipline :-) I will try different dosage of C60

 

Depending on the doses you are using, I think you are going to need a very long wash-out period between doses. The effects relating to efficiency of oxygen utilization show up at rather low dosage, but don't seem to change much with increasing dose. Larger doses just make the effects last longer, and they last for a pretty long time even with low doses. This is based on closely following peoples' reports here, and my own experiences with c60, but isn't formalized. I am very interested in seeing if my crude observations hold up in a more formal test. I think the best way to run this experiment would be to wait as long as you can without using any c60, then start with a very low dose, like a tenth of a milligram, and work your way up. If you are increasing dose, then you don't have to wait very long, and can simply assume that most of the previous dose is still on board.

It would be ideal if you could find someone who was already acclimated to endurance exercise so that there wouldn't be a training effect, but that had never had c60. That way you would know that you are starting from a clean baseline.

 

 

 

Ok! I will try to find a fresh "rat" to try and experiment with it! As you know, C60 helped with my shin splint so I don't want to stop taking it. I will try to see if the effects are dose dependant and try to find another brave soul to try it out in the treadmill challenge... 

 

I can already how that conversation will go down: "Hey, interested in ingesting nano-technology to see the effects on performance? Don't worry, it's pretty safe, a bunch of guys I never met but seem pretty smart have been taking it for years without problem! Some guy cured his fishes of fungus and a couple of dogs seem to be doing better. Convinced yet?"

 

Cheers! 

[smithx]

Just another pretty useless anecdote but I did a workout session with a guy about 15 years younger than me whom I did martial arts with for many years previously and was able to easily keep up with him without getting tired or winded. 

 

Another thing I noticed: when I was a kid I used to run everywhere for no reason. I'd just run because I had the energy and thought it was boring to walk. In the last couple of weeks I find myself running around again the same way, for no reason. I haven't done this in at least 15 years. I didn't consciously decide to do it, but just found it happening again. 

 

(I am in my mid-50s)

 

 

 

 

Edited by smithx, 28 November 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[cani!]

Just another pretty useless anecdote but I did a workout session with a guy about 15 years younger than me whom I did martial arts with for many years previously and was able to easily keep up with him without getting tired or winded.

Another thing I noticed: when I was a kid I used to run everywhere for no reason. I'd just run because I had the energy and thought it was boring to walk. In the last couple of weeks I find myself running around again the same way, for no reason. I haven't done this in at least 15 years. I didn't consciously decide to do it, but just found it happening again.

(I am in my mid-50s)

Say hi to lieutenant Dan :-)


That's cool seriously!

[Kalliste]

I have been feeling very energetic lately, I stopped taking c60 1.5ml/day for a few days last week. I became more and more tired, slept for 12 hours on the third night after stopping it and usually sleep 7, felt tired until I started it again. Have taken 3 50ml Vaugther bottles, have ordered 3 more now. I feel a bit addicted.

This could all be placebo though, I have been pushing myself hard, switching gradually to more and more legume and nuts instead of wheat and taking cold showers. I wish we knew more.

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 28 November 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[resveratrol_guy]

Depending on the doses you are using, I think you are going to need a very long wash-out period between doses. The effects relating to efficiency of oxygen utilization show up at rather low dosage, but don't seem to change much with increasing dose. Larger doses just make the effects last longer, and they last for a pretty long time even with low doses. This is based on closely following peoples' reports here, and my own experiences with c60, but isn't formalized. I am very interested in seeing if my crude observations hold up in a more formal test. I think the best way to run this experiment would be to wait as long as you can without using any c60, then start with a very low dose, like a tenth of a milligram, and work your way up. If you are increasing dose, then you don't have to wait very long, and can simply assume that most of the previous dose is still on board.

It would be ideal if you could find someone who was already acclimated to endurance exercise so that there wouldn't be a training effect, but that had never had c60. That way you would know that you are starting from a clean baseline.

 

0.1 mg? I don't think that's easy to measure, in practice. I'd suggest starting with 0.5 mg/d, and incrementing in 0.5 mg doses, more or less. Otherwise, given the washout period that you quite sensibly recommended between tests, we could undermine the study just by virtue of its length and the associated risk of disruptive events. Nevertheless, I agree that a c60oo-naive individual would be ideal; I'll take whatever decent data I can get.

[resveratrol_guy]

I have been feeling very energetic lately, I stopped taking c60 1.5ml/day for a few days last week. I became more and more tired, slept for 12 hours on the third night after stopping it and usually sleep 7, felt tired until I started it again. Have taken 3 50ml Vaugther bottles, have ordered 3 more now. I feel a bit addicted.

This could all be placebo though, I have been pushing myself hard, switching gradually to more and more legume and nuts instead of wheat and taking cold showers. I wish we knew more.

 

Placebo? I doubt it. This is exactly what happened with my Asian friend. As I had warned him, he started feeling tired 3 weeks after a month on c60oo. (I had told him to expect fatigue, but had not given any particular time period after which it would occur. I just found out about it because he started complaining to my friend.) A couple weeks ago, however, he said that his energy had normalized.

 

During my own 2-week hiatus, my mental function also declined in an objectively measured manner as I mentioned previously. IMO c60oo should not be cycled, lest quality of life decline rather precipitously, resulting in a spike in all-cause-mortality risk; but there some here who would strongly disagree for good theoretical reasons.

 

Now for something completely different...

 

It occurred to me, after reading a Turnbuckle citation, that it may be time to revisit NADH, AKA "biological rocket fuel", in the c60oo context; note that the aforelinked threads have been necrotic since just about the time that c60oo entered the mainstream press. In particular, can we use mitochondrial antioxidants as an ROS mitigation mechanism, in order to safely unleash the supercharging potential of NADH on neuronal and muscular systems? (diana_2000 suggested cycling NADH; c60oo would require a reevaluation of that recommendation.) We might also need sodium ascorbate, liposomal vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, or some other extramitochondrial antioxidant in order to subsume the full ROS blast radius. But if it works, we might end up with a superathlete with unusually low response latency and perhaps enhanced cognition. Any takers?

[StevesPetRat]

In particular, can we use mitochondrial antioxidants as an ROS mitigation mechanism, in order to safely unleash the supercharging potential of NADH on neuronal and muscular systems? (diana_2000 suggested cycling NADH; c60oo would require a reevaluation of that recommendation.) We might also need sodium ascorbate, liposomal vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, or some other extramitochondrial antioxidant in order to subsume the full ROS blast radius. But if it works, we might end up with a superathlete with unusually low response latency and perhaps enhanced cognition. Any takers?

If you wanna buy my Niagen, I'm down.