1023 replies to this topic

[sensei]

 

To illustrate my point, 

 

The terminal half life of THC in the blood varies from 4.3 to 12.6 days

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2558889

 

 

Yet, THC and metabolites of THC and other cannabinoids are stored in adipose (fat) cells and can remain in the body for months or longer, until that fat is metabolized.

 

 

Exactly. C60 might stay in the body for a long time, but it's only going to be useful in the mitochondria--presumably--and that will be for a much shorter time. How long that is isn't nailed down. In fact, different fullerenes with different adducts go to different places in the cell for varying amounts of time, and we don't even know what the adducts are when C60 is dissolved in EVOO. 

 

 

 

I found a few citations after you posted this -- that I find quite interesting

 

Rat mitochondrial turnover:

 

"We estimated the actual liver mitochondrial half life as only 1.83 days, and this decreased to 1.16 days following 3 months of dietary restriction, supporting the hypothesis that this intervention might promote mitochondrial turnover as a part of its beneficial effects."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2659384/

 

 

HeLa Cancer Cells (essentially no Hayflick Limit) 

 

"All mitochondrial RNA species analyzed were found to be metabolically unstable, with half-lives of 2.5 to 3.5 h for the two ribosomal RNA components and between 25 and 90 min for the various putative messenger RNAs. "

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC369693/

 

Now I don't know what the correlation of mtRNA turnover to actual mitochondrial turnover is -- but it seems the higher the rate of turnover the better for cellular longevity

 

 

Previous posts on Longecity have cited that C60OO induces mitophagy -- which current thought indicates would increase turnover 

 

Perhaps there is a dose threshold to reach higher mitochondrial turnover

Edited by sensei, 08 December 2014 - 02:32 AM.

[niner]

When mitochondria are turned over, the component molecules will be reused, so if fatty acids in the membranes are reused to make new mitochondrial membranes, some c60 should stick around through multiple mitophagy events.  It must have a half life in the membrane, presumably a lot longer than the half life in plasma, but I think it will be hard to figure out what it is without some sort of measurement.

[sensei]

When mitochondria are turned over, the component molecules will be reused, so if fatty acids in the membranes are reused to make new mitochondrial membranes, some c60 should stick around through multiple mitophagy events.  It must have a half life in the membrane, presumably a lot longer than the half life in plasma, but I think it will be hard to figure out what it is without some sort of measurement.

 

I may have found a 2 potential mechanisms by which C60OO caused longevity associated with the Baati Study

 

1.

 

" Improvement of mitochondrial function results in less telomeric damage and slower telomere shortening, while telomere-dependent growth arrest is associated with increased mitochondrial dysfunction. Moreover, telomerase, the enzyme complex that is known to re-elongate shortened telomeres, also appears to have functions independent of telomeres that protect against oxidative stress. Together, these data suggest a self-amplifying cycle between mitochondrial and telomeric DNA damage during cellular senescence."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2190715/

 

 

SO -- basically by revving up mitochondrial turnover -- and mitophagy resulting in extremely well functioning mitochondria, results in delayed cellular senescence

 

 

 

2.

 

Mitochondrial telomerase protects cancer cells from nuclear DNA damage and apoptosis.

 

"We demonstrate here that mitochondrial localization of telomerase specifically prevents nuclear DNA damage by decreasing levels of mitochondrial ROS. We suggest that this decrease of oxidative stress might be a possible cause for high stress resistance of cancer cells and could be especially important for cancer stem cells."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23326372

 

 

1. Stands on it's own and is likely settled science.

 

2. I propose that by decreasing mitochondrial ROS C60 in turn allows for telomerase that would otherwise be localized to the mitochondria, is instead available to actually lengthen telomeres.  AS it seems from the cancer study that telomerase is localized from the nucleus to the mitochondria to prevent damage and apoptosis.

 

Thoughts? Comments?

Edited by sensei, 08 December 2014 - 05:20 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

"We estimated the actual liver mitochondrial half life as only 1.83 days, and this decreased to 1.16 days following 3 months of dietary restriction, supporting the hypothesis that this intervention might promote mitochondrial turnover as a part of its beneficial effects."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2659384/

 

 

Now I don't know what the correlation of mtRNA turnover to actual mitochondrial turnover is -- but it seems the higher the rate of turnover the better for cellular longevity

 

 

Previous posts on Longecity have cited that C60OO induces mitophagy -- which current thought indicates would increase turnover 

 

Perhaps there is a dose threshold to reach higher mitochondrial turnover

 

 

That paper also says, "It should also be noted that the concept of mitochondrial half life in itself is problematic." And that's true. The average cell might have 1000-2000 mitochondria and 2-10 loops of mtDNA per mitochondrion. They are constantly fusing and fissioning, and this process seems to be essential for quality control by the  lysosomes that eliminate defective mitochondria. So when does "turnover" occur? When a mitochondrion is actually destroyed in a lysosome? Or the mtDNA is replaced? Or when mitochondria undergo fission or fusion? An old Soviet encyclopedia defined it as when half the mitochondrial content is renewed and indicated that the half-life is much longer--"In liver cells [of the rat] the biological half-life of mitochondria (the period during which half their contents is renewed) is 9.6–10.2 days, and in kidney cells, 12.4 days."

 

As for C60EVOO inducing mitophagy, I wasn't aware of that.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 December 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

2. I propose that by decreasing mitochondrial ROS C60 in turn allows for telomerase that would otherwise be localized to the mitochondria, is instead available to actually lengthen telomeres.  AS it seems from the cancer study that telomerase is localized from the nucleus to the mitochondria to prevent damage and apoptosis.

 

 

 

 

When you look at plots of telomere length vs age, it's scatter-shot. There's no way an insurance company could use it to set their rates for life insurance. So there is some other controlling factor, and more likely mitochondrial aging is the real limit to lifespan for most people and telomere length is a red herring. As for how C60 can increase lifespan, some think it is simply acting as an anti-oxidant, while others (me included), think it goes deeper than that. The evidence that C60 is kick-starting stem cell differentiation, for instance, points to another effect entirely. Either epigenetically altering the mtDNA, or by repressing membrane proteins that turn off ATP production, such as UCP2. UCP2 is an uncoupling protein that shuts down ATP production in stem cells (and in somatic cells too). It produces a round pore in the mitochondrial membrane which reduces the membrane potential. When repressed (a round pore plugged by the round C60 molecule), this increases ATP production and promotes the differentiation of stem cells. And of course, increases ROS as well. So lucky C60 is an antioxidant, but it is also important, I think, to take supplemental gluthathione to deal with the ROS from more active mitochondria. Increasing the levels of this endogenous antioxidant can be accomplished with NAC, but even better by the reduced form of gluthathione trademarked as Setria. 

 

UCP2 regulates energy metabolism and differentiation potential of human pluripotent stem cells

Edited by Turnbuckle, 08 December 2014 - 01:25 PM.

[sensei]

My new shipment has cleared customs whoohoo!

 

16 days to clear this time -- slow because of holidays

Edited by sensei, 08 December 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[smccomas01]

Woo Hoo for you Sensei!! I should be receiving mine today I am going to try the larger dosing protocol and see if I can duplicate your results. 

[McK]

First time user and just got bottle c-60 in olive oil today o.8 mg in 100 ml bottle from seller in US.  What would be a usual conservative starting dose?

  Had Physical therapy today for a micro tear in my left calf muscle.  After PT fell very sore and muscle very exhausted.  On a impulse I rubbed some of the C-60 over the leg area and much to my surprise the area became flushed and warm almost like a low heating pad.  After a few minutes the flush went away but swelling and soreness were greatly reduced.  

  Has anyone noticed something similar to this reaction on topical skin application

[Kalliste]

I have rubbed it onto my arms but not noticed any effect.

[McK]

Would you have any ideas on a starting dose?  I will try the topical tommorow and see if the warming occurs again.

[sensei]

Would you have any ideas on a starting dose?  I will try the topical tommorow and see if the warming occurs again.

 

It depends on what your beliefs are regarding human vs rat dosing to get the same effect -- how much money you want to spend --  how much C60OO you have on hand, and how experimental you are.

 

Years of user reports on this site have yet to show any clinically supported negative effects at any dose AFAIK (As Far As I Know).

 

The "recommended" dose that you may hear often is 1.5mg/day

 

I take a whole bottle (45mg C60 in 50ml OO) or more at a time.

 

I have taken 3 bottles (total of 135mg C60) in one day -- just so I could say I received the same mg/kg dose as the rats did (1.7mg/kg) -  I weigh about 80 kilos

 

I am of the belief that higher doses as well as higher total lifetime dosage is key to get the effects I have personally seen (regrowth of hair , gray hair turning back to original color, loss of crows feet and lessened nasolabial fold; among others)

Edited by sensei, 12 December 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

Would you have any ideas on a starting dose?  I will try the topical tommorow and see if the warming occurs again.

 

Try plain olive oil on the other leg at the same time and see if you can tell a difference.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Would you have any ideas on a starting dose?  I will try the topical tommorow and see if the warming occurs again.

 

 

The "recommended" dose that you may hear often is 1.5mg/day

 

 

 

 

Have you seen the poll? Users report everything from .5 mg to 11+ mg, and from daily to once a month. 

[McK]

Thank you all for your information.  Good idea to try OO on other leg to see if have same reaction.  Good to know Sensei that you are still standing after downing a whole bottle.  I think the greatest fear of trying this is concern for toxic after effects; the history of posts regarding this was helpful and saved me from hours of sifting through posts.

  Turnbuckle how long have you used C-60 and are you on the usual dose of 1.5 mg a day? 

[smccomas01]

Following up on my experience and swelling related to RA, yeah it came back :(

 

I am going to continue with the large doses see if I can duplicate the results hair and wrinkles. 

[Turnbuckle]

Thank you all for your information.  Good idea to try OO on other leg to see if have same reaction.  Good to know Sensei that you are still standing after downing a whole bottle.  I think the greatest fear of trying this is concern for toxic after effects; the history of posts regarding this was helpful and saved me from hours of sifting through posts.

  Turnbuckle how long have you used C-60 and are you on the usual dose of 1.5 mg a day? 

 

 

Again, there is no usual dose as people are all over the map. I've used everything from 1 to 50 mg in a dose, but for most of the time since April, 2012, I've taken 4 mg once a week. Presently I'm trialing a higher dose once again--40 mg once a week. In addition I take 500 mg reduced gluthathione every day along with a protocol for creating new stem cells, as I believe that C60 is causing stem cells to differentiate and may be depleting them. I have more details on my profile page.

[McK]

I read your information on profile page;  very, very interesting.  Would you take a stem cell product such as stem cell 100 along with C60?

[sensei]

I found a picture of my hair from October 2014, and took one today.

 

It is of my crown -- the baldest area.

 

The scar, divot, and freckle serve to show the same area.

 

The difference in color is striking -- how much darker all the hairs are.

 

You can also see the increased density -- I have highlighted areas 

 

You can also see the gray disappeared.

 

The area was even more bald prior to starting the OO

 

The thick, dark - very short hairs, are evidence of extremely recent new growth (about a week since I have shaved my head)

 

I take no medications for hair growth

Attached Files

•  C60OO hair.jpg   64.16KB   39 downloads

Edited by sensei, 12 December 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[aribadabar]

I found a picture of my hair from October 2014, and took one today.

 

It is of my crown -- the baldest area.

 

The scar, divot, and freckle serve to show the same area.

 

The difference in color is striking -- how much darker all the hairs are.

 

You can also see the increased density -- I have highlighted areas 

 

You can also see the gray disappeared.

 

The area was even more bald prior to starting the OO

 

The thick, dark - very short hairs, are evidence of extremely recent new growth (about a week since I have shaved my head)

 

I take no medications for hair growth

 

Great news - care to share the photos?

Edited by aribadabar, 12 December 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[sensei]

attached thumbnails

 

are they not visible?

Edited by sensei, 12 December 2014 - 06:10 PM.

[sensei]

 

I found a picture of my hair from October 2014, and took one today.

 

It is of my crown -- the baldest area.

 

The scar, divot, and freckle serve to show the same area.

 

The difference in color is striking -- how much darker all the hairs are.

 

You can also see the increased density -- I have highlighted areas 

 

You can also see the gray disappeared.

 

The area was even more bald prior to starting the OO

 

The thick, dark - very short hairs, are evidence of extremely recent new growth (about a week since I have shaved my head)

 

I take no medications for hair growth

 

Great news - care to share the photos?

 

i attached thumbnails are they not visible?

[aribadabar]

 

 

I found a picture of my hair from October 2014, and took one today.

 

It is of my crown -- the baldest area.

 

The scar, divot, and freckle serve to show the same area.

 

The difference in color is striking -- how much darker all the hairs are.

 

You can also see the increased density -- I have highlighted areas 

 

You can also see the gray disappeared.

 

The area was even more bald prior to starting the OO

 

The thick, dark - very short hairs, are evidence of extremely recent new growth (about a week since I have shaved my head)

 

I take no medications for hair growth

 

Great news - care to share the photos?

 

i attached thumbnails are they not visible?

 

They were not attached when I first read your post. It's OK now.

[sensei]

They were not attached when I first read your post. It's OK now.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you see the differences?

[Turnbuckle]

I read your information on profile page;  very, very interesting.  Would you take a stem cell product such as stem cell 100 along with C60?

 

I don't have an opinion of that product. I notice it has astragalus and blueberries as the two main ingredients, which are both oriented to telomere protection. I bought a bottle of "Stem Cell Activator" by Bell a year ago and took half the bottle without noticing anything, then stopped. Which wasn't a very good trial, I'll admit. The vinegar treatment I describe on my profile page does seem to work, at least for the skin.

[aribadabar]

 

They were not attached when I first read your post. It's OK now.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you see the differences?

 

Here are my observations:

 

The lighting of the second picture is "colder" and making the colours look darker IMO. OTOH, You have a more accurate perception as you can see it live.

 

Is the second and first picture taken at the same interval after shaving?

The hair does look longer on the second pic so perhaps that's the hair growth-boosting effect at work.

 

Not to sound pessimistic but it seems to me that the oval area seems more sparse/diffused in the second pic.

 

I am not trying to discount any benefits. In fact, I also suffer from early greying and since your initial report started taking 3tbsp C60-oo every other day. I really hope they are true for you and happen to everyone taking C60- I am just trying to be cautiously optimistic/ realistic based on the photo evidence.

[resting]

[sensei]

As part of regrowth hair sheds, that's why I am going to take pics going forward, probably weekly or another interval that I keep constant after shaving.

 

I know the lighting and room conditions from today and the flash setting so I can replicate.

 

I have also started topical as of this week.

[sensei]

wow , when you grey-scaled it you can really see

 

And for the record -- the majority of the area in the picture between the two scar/furrow lines was practically "MR CLEAN" bald  - devoid of any hair at the beginning of 2014

Edited by sensei, 12 December 2014 - 06:49 PM.

[cani!]

 

 

to me, it seems like extraordinary results! There was no topical application and you can clearly see hair being darker. I have no idea what it means, I'm sure even senior scientists like Turnbuckle would use caution since we don't fully understand the aging process but those are amazing results. C60 is doing something and it is very positive for sure!  I also noticed some of my graying hair being replaced by darker one and my eyebrows have begun to grow much fuller. Antioxydant or whatever doesn't really matter to me.

 

I'm gonna grow those eyebrows until  I look like the dad from "Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs".

 

 

Edited by cani!, 12 December 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[niner]

With all the talk of hair growth, it's probably time to repost this work from Luna Nanoworks:
 

Nanomedicine. 2009 Jun;5(2):202-7. doi: 10.1016/j.nano.2008.09.005. Epub 2009 Feb 14.
Fullerene nanomaterials potentiate hair growth.
Zhou Z1, Lenk R, Dellinger A, MacFarland D, Kumar K, Wilson SR, Kepley CL.

1Luna nanoWorks, a division of Luna Innovations Incorporated, Danville, Virginia, USA.

Hair loss is a common symptom resulting from a wide range of disease processes and can lead to stress in affected individuals. The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of fullerene nanomaterials on hair growth. We used shaved mice as well as SKH-1 "bald" mice to determine if fullerene-based compounds could affect hair growth and hair follicle numbers. In shaved mice, fullerenes increase the rate of hair growth as compared with mice receiving vehicle only. In SKH-1 hairless mice fullerene derivatives given topically or subdermally markedly increased hair growth. This was paralleled by a significant increase in the number of hair follicles in fullerene-treated mice as compared with those mice treated with vehicle only. The fullerenes also increased hair growth in human skin sections maintained in culture. These studies have wide-ranging implications for those conditions leading to hair loss, including alopecia, chemotherapy, and reactions to various chemicals.

PMID: 19223242