1023 replies to this topic

[Nuke]

Decided to make a small update. I have been taking C60oo for 4 months now, 2.4mg a day, for a total of 320mg. No negative effects at all.

 

I still have an increased endurance when running, it can't be that I'm getting more fit, my activity levels have not changed. It is funny to be the only one not puffing when reaching the top of a mountain, even though some co-workers have a more active lifestyle.(I sometimes have to go out to a radio tower, at some places there is no parking near the tower) 

 

I also believe that my smell is getting better. For most of my life I have had issues with my nose, and it is clearing up. There is 2 other factors that can also be partly responsible. I take Guduchi daily and the whole winter so far I have used a humidifier. Used have had a bleeding nose daily / once in 2 days, but I had it only once this whole winter.

 

I'll continue C60oo, though I plan to drop it down to 1.6 mg daily. I don't think I need more. From my next batch on I may even drop it to 1mg. Hope to start Epitalon in the next week, so from then on it will be harder to quantify the C60 effects.

[Rewire]

I notice a huge difference when running if i have had C60 (in olive oil) a few hours before. My breathing never really accelerate like it usually does when i run. Its deffently easier to run for me. So does the C60 helps me take up more oxygen in a single breath or does my body not need as much oxygen from breathing when i have taken C60? Have anyone made a comparison of how long they can hold their breath when having ingested C60 a few hours before vs a week of none usage?

[Kalliste]

Have not noticed any effect during the last couple of months. On the other hand MitoQ does something to my energy that is impossible to not notice. I wonder if C60 is actually an antioxidant, it probably does something else or there should not be such a difference.

I still believe in C60 on technical terms but I'm gonna cut down on it now.

[niner]

I notice a huge difference when running if i have had C60 (in olive oil) a few hours before. My breathing never really accelerate like it usually does when i run. Its deffently easier to run for me. So does the C60 helps me take up more oxygen in a single breath or does my body not need as much oxygen from breathing when i have taken C60? Have anyone made a comparison of how long they can hold their breath when having ingested C60 a few hours before vs a week of none usage?

 

Would you get the same effect if you took c60 less recently, like say the day before?   I've noticed improved endurance from c60, but I haven't tested it with a really recent dose.  I'll try that next time I go to the gym.

 

If you have asthma or other allergy-driven airway disease, c60oo might help you get more oxygen in a breath, but it also makes mitochondria more efficient, so you're getting more energy out of a given volume of oxygen.

 

As far as holding the breath, I don't think you'll see the effect there.  The thing that makes you want to take a breath isn't so much lack of oxygen as a buildup of CO2.

[Turnbuckle]

Have anyone made a comparison of how long they can hold their breath when having ingested C60 a few hours before vs a week of none usage?

 

 

That would be an excellent experiment. If C60 is plugging the mitochondrial UCP pores, that would make them more efficient at utilizing oxygen to make ATP (by eliminating the proton leakage). Thus one should be able to hold one's breath longer as less oxygen would be used in making heat and thus less CO2 generated.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 19 August 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[mait]

My 2 cents: the first and most noticeable effect I saw while starting C60 regime 2.5 years ago was the significant drop in resting breathing frequency. Furthermore, I am taking 15mg of C60 5 days a week skipping dosing on weekends. On days coinciding C60 dose the cycling route of 35-50 km on mountain bike is quite a lot easier compared to days, when I haven’t taken C60. So there seems to be acute effect of C60 on endurance. Although, I am taking 15mg of C60 in 20g of EVOO so maybe the caloric content of olive oil itself helps to ease the effort needed in following workout.

Edited by mait, 19 August 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[niner]

Have not noticed any effect during the last couple of months. On the other hand MitoQ does something to my energy that is impossible to not notice. I wonder if C60 is actually an antioxidant, it probably does something else or there should not be such a difference.

I still believe in C60 on technical terms but I'm gonna cut down on it now.

 

I'd like to know more about the effect MitoQ has on you.  Is it something that you see athletically, like increased reps when lifting weights or higher output when cycling?  Or is it more of a mental energy?

[Kalliste]

The gym/cycling bit changes, endurance increases, and it feels good both phys/mentally. It's easier to enter flow-state of reps. I play more with my kid just like in a stupid commercial.

 

There's something a lot more easy-going about doing it. I'm already in excellent shape, eat nuts, fiber, spinach, creatine and what not so I should be at top of my game already.

 Especially when I go to 20mg, I don't do that a lot because it's hideously expensive and there was the study on redox homeostasis in neural stem cells regulating their fate. Don't wanna poison my stem cells I guess. I'm mostly in it for the metastasis-inibition

 

I've longed for this effect with C60 mind you, it's cheap and has super-good rodent results. I'm sure I felt it early on with regards to having more endurance. And placebo-wise I should still have something out of it because I've read an atrocious amount about fullerenes, but wheter I drink 1.5ml on a fasted stomach or 35ml with additional olive oil to get the bile going I don't feel anything particular, good or bad after that. I still believe in it.

 

The last thing I could pin on it was muscle soreness becoming more subtle after several days of cycling, this april I think I logged that.

(But I'm not sure that's a good thing, maybe that means I'm not getting the ROS-hormesis thing from my muscles...? I don't really mind muscle soreness)

 

I'm gonna continue with C60 on a similar schedule to that of yours, 6-10ml once a week.

[Kalliste]

I contacted a local uni that has research on mito-antioxidants and explained what I was doing and asked the lead researcher if any student wanted to do a case study on me by the way. They probably won't call back, but if they do I'll be sure to post it here

(They had not heard of C60, at all, despite specifically working with mito-antioxidants )

[Wilberforce]

Not a health benefit as such but the skin specifically on my temples and face in general is thicker after 3 months.

[PerfectSeek]

An update:

 

I've taken c60oo for a little bit over a year now.  I have also suffered from CFS for the past 10 years.  For those of you familiar with CFS, there tends to be a push-crash cycle with exercise.  Scaling up intensity always led to a crash, which meant days to weeks of feeling recovery.  

 

This has been eliminated by c60oo.  I can do HIIT now.  I can do compound lifts with heavy weights.  My physical fitness is better than it's every been in my life.  

 

It's not that c60 suddenly led to these changes, but it prevents the crash.  This allows me to scale intensity slowly and recovery, as a normal person should.  It's been life changing for me.  

 

For full disclosure, I also started L-Ornithine chronically around the same time as c60.  I have also experienced positive benefits from Ornithine and I cannot fully distinguish the two.  

 

 

[njurkovi]

I would like to share mu c60oo experience. I started taking it 4 weeks ago about 7mg twice a week (as there are no universal dosing suggestions, this simply reflects the size of a tablespoon I am using :-).

I have not experienced anything special expect some kind of 'nervous energy' on the two days I was taking it, which made it hard for me to go to sleep. This effect has diminished, so at this point I can hardly tell the difference between the days I am taking it and those when I don't.

I pretty much made my peace with the fact that I will not be feeling any 'super-human' effects, due to the relatively low dosage, but I decided to keep taking it because of the potential invisible beneficial effect.

Fast forward to last week - I took my family to Padre Island beach (TX) for labor day. One afternoon my daughter (who runs cross country / 7th grade -- much faster than you might think) wanted me to go for a leisurely run on the beach. I reluctantly agreed because I haven't run for a long while, it was hot (around a 100F) and knew what 'leisurely' meant to her. Well, guess what - I was able to keep up with her; I just couldn't get out of breath - a really weird feeling. She still beats me in a short sprint, but 30 minutes later (when we came back to the hotel), I was ready for another round and she was completely exhausted. The only reason I didn't go all by myself, is because of the reports I read here (about how your tendons and joints don't keep up with stamina). This was a very obvious, measurable effect of taking c60 (I haven't been taking any other supplements for a while).

The second effect that I failed to notice earlier (the event above started me thinking about other possible effects), was that I don't get a headache any more after drinking the previous evening. This has always been a big problem for me - just a big raging hangover headache the next morning (even if drinking relatively moderately). So, I sacrificed myself in the name of science :-). and drank heavier  than usual several evenings since then - not a hint of headache / hangover. I think I felt slightly sleepier in the morning, but that was it. I did not get appreciably less buzzed as reported by other members here.

The third effect, which may be the weakest, since I am not sure how bad the sun was - I fell asleep on the beach (laying on my back, almost no sun-screen on the front. When I woke up, I thought I was in the world of trouble. While I did get a little red (darkish red), there was no usual pain associated with the burn; the next day the skin color was almost brown and there was no peeling. This needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because I wasn't completely "white" before and it is possible that exposure wasn't so long/strong as I have imagined.

 

So this is pretty much it for now. I will probably stop testing what is the exact amount of alcohol I need to get a headache, but I will continue pushing the limits on running, because I actually started enjoying it again.

[Turnbuckle]

Breath holding with C60 (3 mg)

 

In the first trial in each group I took a deep breath while sitting in a chair, with no other preparation. Each of the two subsequent trials in each group I allowed 45 seconds recovery while taking deep breaths at a moderate rate. Before the control trial group, I’d not had any C60 for a week.

 

First trial group, control

 

1. 25 s

2. 35 s

3. 60 s

 

Second trial group, 1 hr after C60 ingestion and first trial—

 

1. 25 s

2. 55 s

3. 85 s

 

Third trial group, 2 hr after ingestion—

 

1. 25 s

2. 65 s

3. 90 s

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 16 September 2015 - 06:18 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

To continue the experiment in the post above (#823), I retested after five hours from the 3-mg dose, and the results were the same as after two hours. Today, approximately 20 hours later, I took a larger dose of C60 (10 mg), and tried again after one hour--

 

1. 35 s

2. 80 s

3. 125 s

 

And the result was substantially better. This suggests that 10 mg C60 is better than 3 mg for breath holding, and probably for any sort of aerobic exercise.

[Wilberforce]

I've been taking C60oo at night as it makes me sleepy - I'm wondering if perceived fatigue might be related to increased red blood cell count?  I'm going to try 10mg 1 hour before starting running again tonight.

[platypus]

You should also do a control run where you do several trials in a row to see whether the results would improve also without C60

[Daniel Cooper]

Breath holding with C60 (3 mg)

 

In the first trial in each group I took a deep breath while sitting in a chair, with no other preparation. Each of the two subsequent trials in each group I allowed 45 seconds recovery while taking deep breaths at a moderate rate. Before the control trial group, I’d not had any C60 for a week.

 

First trial group, control

 

1. 25 s

2. 35 s

3. 60 s

 

Second trial group, 1 hr after C60 ingestion and first trial—

 

1. 25 s

2. 55 s

3. 85 s

 

Third trial group, 2 hr after ingestion—

 

1. 25 s

2. 65 s

3. 90 s

 

Given the long half life of C60 and the length of time you've been taking it, is a real control even possible?  Do you really expect a significant post ingestion boost given the constant C60 load you must be carrying?  How long had it been since the prior C60 dose?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Given the long half life of C60 and the length of time you've been taking it, is a real control even possible?  Do you really expect a significant post ingestion boost given the constant C60 load you must be carrying?  How long had it been since the prior C60 dose?

 

 

I've been taking about 4 mg per dose, once a week, and it had been a week since my last dose. So this trial suggests there is strong effect on aerobic capacity that is dose dependent and doesn't last a week. Still, I'm sure that if I had never taken C60 before, the improvement would be much more dramatic.

[Turnbuckle]

You should also do a control run where you do several trials in a row to see whether the results would improve also without C60

 

The (3 mg) trial results at five hours were the same as at two hours, and only slight better than at one hour, so without any additional C60, they weren't improving. But when I took another 10 mg the next day, there was a substantial improvement.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 September 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Julia36]

Issue is objective double bind trials.

 

[geo12the]

 

 

The (3 mg) trial results at five hours were the same as at two hours, and only slight better than at one hour, so without any additional C60, they weren't improving. But when I took another 10 mg the next day, there was a substantial improvement.

 

 

I have an idea Turnbuckle. Can you do a trial where half the doses are a placebo(maybe just regular OO, and take the samples with eyes closed so you don't see the color. Maybe spike with something strongly flavored so they taste the same). Then have someone randomize them? Only they would have a record of what samples are C60 vs. placebo. That way you will confirm its not a placebo effect.  If the effect proves true in C60OO vs placebo that would be really significant information.

Edited by geo12the, 17 September 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Issue is objective double bind trials.

 

Take if for what you think it is worth. Everyone is welcome to do their own trials. If you get two other people involved, you can do a double blind trial, and if you are interested in p-values, then you will need a number of subjects. I encourage anyone interested to do that, as it can be done very cheaply. This forum, however, is mostly populated by members describing their own experiences, quoting scientific papers, or just posting speculations. Very few ever venture into rigorously designed experiments, so if you choose to do this and report it here, it will certainly be appreciated.

[njurkovi]

Turnbuckle,

Your experiment is very much appreciated. I will do exact same thing next Tuesday (it will be 5 days after my last C60 dosing).

It will be really interesting to see how the proportions hold up, because my first ('no prep') number is quite a bit higher than 25.

If they do, I will be way over my max (at least from what I recall 20-30 years ago).

[Xerxes]

Issue is objective double bind trials.

Take if for what you think it is worth. Everyone is welcome to do their own trials. If you get two other people involved, you can do a double blind trial, and if you are interested in p-values, then you will need a number of subjects. I encourage anyone interested to do that, as it can be done very cheaply. This forum, however, is mostly populated by members describing their own experiences, quoting scientific papers, or just posting speculations. Very few ever venture into rigorously designed experiments, so if you choose to do this and report it here, it will certainly be appreciated.

I would happily design and conduct a study of my own. However, let's suppose the results are significant - that C60 does increase the length of time one is able to hold their breath, compared to a placebo - no one is likely to take me/any findings from the study seriously since I haven't got any qualifications in the field (yet).

Or am I mistaken; is it worth someone who has no credentials/hasn't conducted an official study before, to design and conduct a study?

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Issue is objective double bind trials.

Take if for what you think it is worth. Everyone is welcome to do their own trials. If you get two other people involved, you can do a double blind trial, and if you are interested in p-values, then you will need a number of subjects. I encourage anyone interested to do that, as it can be done very cheaply. This forum, however, is mostly populated by members describing their own experiences, quoting scientific papers, or just posting speculations. Very few ever venture into rigorously designed experiments, so if you choose to do this and report it here, it will certainly be appreciated.

I would happily design and conduct a study of my own. However, let's suppose the results are significant - that C60 does increase the length of time one is able to hold their breath, compared to a placebo - no one is likely to take me/any findings from the study seriously since I haven't got any qualifications in the field (yet).

Or am I mistaken; is it worth someone who has no credentials/hasn't conducted an official study before, to design and conduct a study?

 

 

That depends on what you are doing. If you are selling C60, then such an experiment would be of value to you for marketing, but if you want to get it published in a medical journal, that would be impossible without credentials. Even with credentials it is difficult, as about half of all studies don't get published. Still, people would read it if you posted it on longecity. When you do a google search on C60 using the keywords C60 breath holding, for instance, the top link is to this page.

 

Another alternative to publication is to file a US patent application, which will be published by the USPTO one year from submission (assuming you want it published). Other alternatives are used when people don't have an actual invention but want to publish to prevent others from getting patents. Research Disclosure, for instance, but I've never used it so I don't know what the cost is.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 September 2015 - 09:52 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle,

Your experiment is very much appreciated. I will do exact same thing next Tuesday (it will be 5 days after my last C60 dosing).

It will be really interesting to see how the proportions hold up, because my first ('no prep') number is quite a bit higher than 25.

If they do, I will be way over my max (at least from what I recall 20-30 years ago).

 

 

Twenty years ago I was much better at holding my breath, especially using the diving response in a pool. After several warm-ups, I could reach 3-4 minutes underwater. Then some ten years ago my doctor prescribed a statin drug and I stupidly took it for several months, eventually feeling that I was dying. Even years afterward I still couldn't run but a short distance without gasping for breath as if I'd run a marathon. Then in early 2012 I tried C60/EVOO, not expecting much, and discovered I could not only run, but I could hold my breath while running the same distance I did before while gasping for breath. The difference was amazing, so I wasn't at all surprised by these results. 

[niner]

I would happily design and conduct a study of my own. However, let's suppose the results are significant - that C60 does increase the length of time one is able to hold their breath, compared to a placebo - no one is likely to take me/any findings from the study seriously since I haven't got any qualifications in the field (yet).

Or am I mistaken; is it worth someone who has no credentials/hasn't conducted an official study before, to design and conduct a study?

 

I think it would be worth something, credentials or not.  All you have to do is tell us how you addressed the two most likely sources of error:   1) The placebo effect, and 2) the training effect.  Practicing holding your breath makes you better at it.  That's how people get to the point that they can hold their breath for what sound (to me, at least) like crazy-long times.

[thedarkbobo]

Well, half+ year on it - still alive and quite well (besides my back hurts often :( ) . No regimen really, just ocasional - and I feel as it was reported earlier - can breathe less often, less physical fatigue and no effect on brain or mood I think. For the price for homemade I think it's ok Still got supply for around a year and C60 for 5 years lol.

[caliope]

As far as breath holding goes, it seems the training effect could be eliminated by doing the C60 trial first. But the placebo effect would be harder. You would have to hold your breath until you passed out, then see if it was longer to passing out on C60. That would be hard to attribute that to placebo. Not that I am recommending this.

 

I have been on C60OO about two years and have a pretty good feel for this stuff. It definitely improves oxygenation. However I have noticed a few negatives: I always get a sore on my left temple when I take it and eat gluten. It seems in fact to create a gluten intolerance. But I have given C60 to family members and it seems not to have this effect on them - it is probably just me. I find the gluten intolerance is proportionate to the dose. On smaller doses, it is hardly noticeable. It was when I upped my dose to 15mL a couple times a week that it became an issue. Also, I began to feel somewhat dependent on it. A few days without it and I was really dragging. So I decided to stop it for a while. Within a few weeks I noticed two things: my eyebrows started falling out, and my left knee was so stiff as to almost cripple me. In fact the knee had bothered me quite a bit before I started C60 (due to an old injury) but I had kind of forgotten about it. So I decided that I do need some C60 and am back on 5mL weekly. I avoid gluten for a couple days after dosing. This is enough to keep my knee from hurting. My eyebrows are back too. I can live without eyebrows, but I do have to be able to walk. If ever I can't get any C60 I will have to get a knee replacement. 

 

 

[Wilberforce]

I wonder if C60 is somehow masking the symptoms of an underlying gluten intolerance. There are significant links between gluten consumption and inflammation of the joints. Unless you have celiac disease there are still no empirical blood tests but complete elimination might be quite revealing.