1023 replies to this topic

[smccomas01]

Congrats on the taper, question have you not been taking any C60 since you started the taper? 

[sensei]

Congrats on the taper, question have you not been taking any C60 since you started the taper? 

 

I had stopped completely, as noted earlier.

 

However, I have been taking approx 15ml of my own C60OO (~.8/.9 mg/ml -- it is dark magenta and even after a couple weeks of shaking there is some residual at bottom -- i added too much C60, even with my milligram scale it can be easy to do)

 

I noticed that the lower dose actually seems to help.

 

I'm down to 1 mg -- only 7 days to go.

 

WD symptoms are very manageable -- only consistent issue is night sweating 2 to 3 times a week, where I actually have to change clothes and sheets in the middle of the night.  It really flares ~ 2 weeks after a major drop in dosage as the half-life of  diazepam metabolite desmethyl-diazepam is up to 200 hours in the body, and diazepam itself has a half-life of 36-100 hours.

 

(I have been tested for HIV, TB, and all endocrine issues that could cause the sweating -- it's from the WD and is a known symptom)

 

Actually no sweating for the past 3 nights.

[smccomas01]

That is awesome. 

[sensei]

That is awesome. 

 

Thanks

[sensei]

 taper.jpg   132.09KB   7 downloadsTaper complete today -- just took the last dose

 

I believe that 13.5-27 mg of C60 every other day or so has significantly helped the taper.

 

Reports that C60 may function as an adaptogen may be warranted.

Edited by sensei, 17 March 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[Fafner55]

My personal experience with C60-OO might be of some benefit to others.

 

After reading that some people experienced fevers when first taking C60-OO, I started by taking 4 drops per day for a few days.  After a couple of days I experienced a low fever, which I attribute to an immune response, and stopped taking it.  After a week or so I started taking a low dose again, this time without a negative reaction.  Within a few days was taking about a few milliliters per day, equivalent to about 3 mg of C60.  Possibly I experienced more energy, but that could have been a placebo effect.  Generally, I did not notice significant benefit, even after following this regimen for about 6 months.

 

In mid-December 2014 I read a reasonably well documented report by a blogger (Sensei) who had been taking an average of 22 mg per day of C60 (in 25 ml olive oil).  Sensei reported that after 3 months the grey in his beard and chest hair mostly reverted back to dark, as did much of his head hair.  Sensei is in his early 40s.  I am 59. On the basis of these results, I began taking the same daily dosage on December 23, 2014.  Coincident with C60-OO, I take the following daily supplements: grape seed extract (500 mg), olive leaf extract (500 mg), green tea extract (500 mg), quercetin (800 mg), blueberry extract (500 mg) , icariin (200 mg), resveratrol (1000 mg) and nicotinamide riboside (1000 mg).

 

My log follows.

 

2015-01-19.  After about one month of taking 22 mg (4 tbsp) C60 per day I can report that

1. No negative side effects are observed.
2. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
3. The brown pigment in my hazel colored eyes has mostly disappeared, leaving my eye color mostly a kind of greyish-green.   This is the first time I have ever noticed a change in eye color.
4. In addition to ingesting C60-OO, I applied it to my right hand about every other day with the idea that my left hand would serve as a reference.  The age spots on my right hand (accumulations of melanin and lipofuscin) clearly receded.  I can see shrinkage and fading of these pigmented spots day by day, supporting the idea of a pro-autophagy effect C60-OO is thought to produce.
5. The many small, flat senile keratosis (a type of seborrheic keratosis) on both of my hands and wrists receded.  This is a significant development, as I have tried treating these growths over the last 15 years in multiple ways without success.  Both hands showed the same improvements.  I cannot be sure that C60-OO was the cause since about the same time I began ingesting this larger dose of C60-OO I also began taking about 1 gm per day of nicotinamide riboside divided into two doses.
6. I was sick with the flu for over a week.  C60-OO did not stop that from happening.

 

2015-02-15.  After nearly two months of taking 22 mg C60 per day I can report that

1. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
2. Eye color appears the same as a month ago.
3. Age spots and skin pigment continues to lighten.  Nearly all spots that received topical C60-OO treatment have significantly faded or disappeared.
4. Senile keratosis continue to thin and shrink in area, but at a slow pace.  
5. I have been experiencing cold hands and feet when I enter a cold place.  Others have reported the same experience, possibly because C60-OO scavenging of nitric oxide (NO) causing poorer adaptation to the cold by indirectly limiting vasodilation.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491853 http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/67918-two-questions-from-a-c60-newbie/page-2   
6. Like others reported on Longecity, I am experiencing muscle fatigue.  This effect might be due to hormesis. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/60275-c60-dosing-and-an-epigenetic-theory-of-action/
7. Starting about two weeks ago, the skin on my back and chest has become very itchy.  I began applying C60-OO to these area a couple of weeks ago to moisturize and hopefully sooth the itch.
8. Similar to other reports http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/59220-minimum-daily-dose-of-c60/#entry540632 , starting about a week ago I began getting inflamed, raised, rough regions of the skin around my waistband area, arms and back.  The arm and chest areas where C60-OO was applied topically showed the most of these areas.  

 

As a result of the appearance of negative side effects, I am stopping C60-OO.  I plan to wait two weeks then start dosing C60-OO again at ≈22 mg once per week (half a 45 ml bottle).

 

2015-02-16.  After one day of not taking ingesting or topically applying C60-OO, the inflamed, rough areas on my skin are significantly reduced.

2015-02-17.  Red, inflamed areas are further reduced.

2015-02-18.  There have been no withdrawal symptoms from cessation of C60-OO. I feel completely normal.  

2015-02-24.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 80% reduced.

2015-02-26.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 90% reduced.  Only the larger patches remain.

2015-03-02.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin have almost entirely disappeared.

2015-03-05.  Lipofuscin deposits on my hands and wrists that were previously faded now appear to be darkening.

2015-03-07.  Began taking ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO once per week.

2015-03-16.  The morning after the second weekly dose of  ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO, a few of the previously subdued red areas on my arm became slightly inflamed again.  As a result, I interpret this dose to be the maximum I should take for maintenance.

[sensei]

 

 

 

In mid-December 2014 I read a reasonably well documented report by a blogger (Sensei) who had been taking an average of 22 mg per day of C60 (in 25 ml olive oil).  Sensei reported that after 3 months the grey in his beard and chest hair mostly reverted back to dark, as did much of his head hair.  

 

 

Actually, if you read all of my posts you will notice that I started C60OO in April of 2014.  Noticeable loss of grey hair did not start until around August-September of 2014, and did not become plainly apparent to people that know me until around the beginning of 2015.

 

You can see that I still had salt (gray) in my beard in September of 2014, but it was mostly gone by Jan 2015.

 

I would estimate that it took 6-8 months to notice the changes. (April - OCT/DEC)  

 

Also, I have taken as much as 135 mg of C60 in 1 day -- 90 mg a day 2 or 3 times, and have gone stretches taking 45 mg/day or every other day  

[ceridwen]

I have a question would C60 increase the life span of spyrochetes or other bacteria in the body. I 1 is trying to remove an infection is it still a good thing to take?

[niner]

I have a question would C60 increase the life span of spyrochetes or other bacteria in the body. I 1 is trying to remove an infection is it still a good thing to take?

 

It's not particularly likely to increase their lifespan in the wild, because they don't have mitochondria, so they probably don't generate a lot of ROS.  In the body,  one of the ways that the immune systems attacks pathogens is to get close to them, then release a burst of ROS.  Bacteria that were loaded up with c60oo, assuming it gets into them, would have a greater defense against the ROS burst.  I don't think that c60oo would protect against common antibiotics, and the body has other mechanisms for removing pathogens.   If you want to guard against the small possibility that c60oo would protect bacteria, you could use a long-interval dosing regimen with correspondingly larger doses.  For example, instead of taking 1 ml/day, you could take 7 ml/week in a single dose, or 30 ml/month.  The c60oo clears from plasma in a day, but during that time it enters membranes where it stays for a long time.  On the day that you take it, you might be giving it to some bacteria, but bacteria reproduce quickly, so their progeny will exponentially less as they reproduce.  If you have a relatively short term infection that you are treating and expect to be rid of soon, the simplest thing would be to stop c60oo until you feel well.

[sensei]

I have a question would C60 increase the life span of spyrochetes or other bacteria in the body. I 1 is trying to remove an infection is it still a good thing to take?

 

I had a particularly bad bacterial bronchitis recently.

 

Once the correct antibiotic was prescribed it resolved as quickly as normal.

 

The pharmacist remarked there were resistant strains.

[Thell]

My personal experience with C60-OO might be of some benefit to others.

 

--->8---

2015-01-19.  After about one month of taking 22 mg (4 tbsp) C60 per day I can report that

1. No negative side effects are observed.
2. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
3. The brown pigment in my hazel colored eyes has mostly disappeared, leaving my eye color mostly a kind of greyish-green.   This is the first time I have ever noticed a change in eye color.
4. In addition to ingesting C60-OO, I applied it to my right hand about every other day with the idea that my left hand would serve as a reference.  The age spots on my right hand (accumulations of melanin and lipofuscin) clearly receded.  I can see shrinkage and fading of these pigmented spots day by day, supporting the idea of a pro-autophagy effect C60-OO is thought to produce.
5. The many small, flat senile keratosis (a type of seborrheic keratosis) on both of my hands and wrists receded.  This is a significant development, as I have tried treating these growths over the last 15 years in multiple ways without success.  Both hands showed the same improvements.  I cannot be sure that C60-OO was the cause since about the same time I began ingesting this larger dose of C60-OO I also began taking about 1 gm per day of nicotinamide riboside divided into two doses.
6. I was sick with the flu for over a week.  C60-OO did not stop that from happening.

 

2015-02-15.  After nearly two months of taking 22 mg C60 per day I can report that

1. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
2. Eye color appears the same as a month ago.
3. Age spots and skin pigment continues to lighten.  Nearly all spots that received topical C60-OO treatment have significantly faded or disappeared.
4. Senile keratosis continue to thin and shrink in area, but at a slow pace.  
5. I have been experiencing cold hands and feet when I enter a cold place.  Others have reported the same experience, possibly because C60-OO scavenging of nitric oxide (NO) causing poorer adaptation to the cold by indirectly limiting vasodilation.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491853 http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/67918-two-questions-from-a-c60-newbie/page-2   
6. Like others reported on Longecity, I am experiencing muscle fatigue.  This effect might be due to hormesis. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/60275-c60-dosing-and-an-epigenetic-theory-of-action/
7. Starting about two weeks ago, the skin on my back and chest has become very itchy.  I began applying C60-OO to these area a couple of weeks ago to moisturize and hopefully sooth the itch.
8. Similar to other reports http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/59220-minimum-daily-dose-of-c60/#entry540632 , starting about a week ago I began getting inflamed, raised, rough regions of the skin around my waistband area, arms and back.  The arm and chest areas where C60-OO was applied topically showed the most of these areas.  

 

As a result of the appearance of negative side effects, I am stopping C60-OO.  I plan to wait two weeks then start dosing C60-OO again at ≈22 mg once per week (half a 45 ml bottle).

 

2015-02-16.  After one day of not taking ingesting or topically applying C60-OO, the inflamed, rough areas on my skin are significantly reduced.

2015-02-17.  Red, inflamed areas are further reduced.

2015-02-18.  There have been no withdrawal symptoms from cessation of C60-OO. I feel completely normal.  

2015-02-24.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 80% reduced.

2015-02-26.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 90% reduced.  Only the larger patches remain.

2015-03-02.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin have almost entirely disappeared.

2015-03-05.  Lipofuscin deposits on my hands and wrists that were previously faded now appear to be darkening.

2015-03-07.  Began taking ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO once per week.

2015-03-16.  The morning after the second weekly dose of  ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO, a few of the previously subdued red areas on my arm became slightly inflamed again.  As a result, I interpret this dose to be the maximum I should take for maintenance.

 

Any difference in eye color during the off period?

 

I ask because I too have noticed eye color change in my hazel eyes (increase in lightness blue/green, decrease in gold flecking, and more pronounced variance between the eyes) as well and I am not taking C60-OO but am taking 1000mg NR. Each of the bolded marks in the above quote look to have something to do with melanin levels, did the senile keratosis spots lighten first?

 

Anyone else with hazel eyes either on C60-OO and not NR, or on NR and not C60-OO that have noted this? I have my mother on 1g NR as well and will check.

[sensei]

 

Any difference in eye color during the off period?

 

 

 

I recently sent a closeup picture of my eyes to a family member -- it was to show the effects of a skin cream

 

she remarked that my eyes were a different color than a year ago ( we have not seen each other for almost a year ).

 

After looking closely, the blue of my eyes has become more vibrant and slightly darker  -- used to be more of a gray blue; the gold flecks around the pupil have decreased.

 

( not necessarily during an off period)

 

I added a current pic of my eye -- to use as a baseline to track future changes if any

Attached Files

•  0319151051a~2.jpg   26.12KB   6 downloads

Edited by sensei, 19 March 2015 - 04:02 PM.

[Fafner55]

 

My personal experience with C60-OO might be of some benefit to others.

 

--->8---

2015-01-19.  After about one month of taking 22 mg (4 tbsp) C60 per day I can report that

1. No negative side effects are observed.
2. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
3. The brown pigment in my hazel colored eyes has mostly disappeared, leaving my eye color mostly a kind of greyish-green.   This is the first time I have ever noticed a change in eye color.
4. In addition to ingesting C60-OO, I applied it to my right hand about every other day with the idea that my left hand would serve as a reference.  The age spots on my right hand (accumulations of melanin and lipofuscin) clearly receded.  I can see shrinkage and fading of these pigmented spots day by day, supporting the idea of a pro-autophagy effect C60-OO is thought to produce.
5. The many small, flat senile keratosis (a type of seborrheic keratosis) on both of my hands and wrists receded.  This is a significant development, as I have tried treating these growths over the last 15 years in multiple ways without success.  Both hands showed the same improvements.  I cannot be sure that C60-OO was the cause since about the same time I began ingesting this larger dose of C60-OO I also began taking about 1 gm per day of nicotinamide riboside divided into two doses.
6. I was sick with the flu for over a week.  C60-OO did not stop that from happening.

 

2015-02-15.  After nearly two months of taking 22 mg C60 per day I can report that

1. There are no observable changes to wrinkles or grey hair on my head or body.
2. Eye color appears the same as a month ago.
3. Age spots and skin pigment continues to lighten.  Nearly all spots that received topical C60-OO treatment have significantly faded or disappeared.
4. Senile keratosis continue to thin and shrink in area, but at a slow pace.  
5. I have been experiencing cold hands and feet when I enter a cold place.  Others have reported the same experience, possibly because C60-OO scavenging of nitric oxide (NO) causing poorer adaptation to the cold by indirectly limiting vasodilation.  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15491853 http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/67918-two-questions-from-a-c60-newbie/page-2   
6. Like others reported on Longecity, I am experiencing muscle fatigue.  This effect might be due to hormesis. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/60275-c60-dosing-and-an-epigenetic-theory-of-action/
7. Starting about two weeks ago, the skin on my back and chest has become very itchy.  I began applying C60-OO to these area a couple of weeks ago to moisturize and hopefully sooth the itch.
8. Similar to other reports http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/59220-minimum-daily-dose-of-c60/#entry540632 , starting about a week ago I began getting inflamed, raised, rough regions of the skin around my waistband area, arms and back.  The arm and chest areas where C60-OO was applied topically showed the most of these areas.  

 

As a result of the appearance of negative side effects, I am stopping C60-OO.  I plan to wait two weeks then start dosing C60-OO again at ≈22 mg once per week (half a 45 ml bottle).

 

2015-02-16.  After one day of not taking ingesting or topically applying C60-OO, the inflamed, rough areas on my skin are significantly reduced.

2015-02-17.  Red, inflamed areas are further reduced.

2015-02-18.  There have been no withdrawal symptoms from cessation of C60-OO. I feel completely normal.  

2015-02-24.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 80% reduced.

2015-02-26.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin appear about 90% reduced.  Only the larger patches remain.

2015-03-02.  The inflamed, rough areas on my skin have almost entirely disappeared.

2015-03-05.  Lipofuscin deposits on my hands and wrists that were previously faded now appear to be darkening.

2015-03-07.  Began taking ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO once per week.

2015-03-16.  The morning after the second weekly dose of  ≈22 mg (4 tbsp) C60-OO, a few of the previously subdued red areas on my arm became slightly inflamed again.  As a result, I interpret this dose to be the maximum I should take for maintenance.

 

Any difference in eye color during the off period?

 

I ask because I too have noticed eye color change in my hazel eyes (increase in lightness blue/green, decrease in gold flecking, and more pronounced variance between the eyes) as well and I am not taking C60-OO but am taking 1000mg NR. Each of the bolded marks in the above quote look to have something to do with melanin levels, did the senile keratosis spots lighten first?

 

Anyone else with hazel eyes either on C60-OO and not NR, or on NR and not C60-OO that have noted this? I have my mother on 1g NR as well and will check.

 

 

Any difference in eye color during the off period?     

On 2015-01-19 I logged a change in eye color because it was so striking.  It came as a complete surprise.  From then until 2015-02-15 when I stopped taking C60-OO on a daily basis my eye color stayed almost entirely grey-green.  Today, 2015-03-19, my eye color has no grey.  It is now mostly green with some brown having returned near the center around the pupil.

 

did the senile keratosis spots lighten first?

My best judgement is that all areas of melanin and lipofuscin accumulation, including senile keratoses and various age spots, faded at about the same time and rate.  After I stopped taking C60-OO on a daily basis, pigmentation did not return to my senile keratoses to any noticeable degree, but did return to other age spots.

[HighDesertWizard]

Any difference in eye color during the off period?

I recently sent a closeup picture of my eyes to a family member -- it was to show the effects of a skin cream

she remarked that my eyes were a different color than a year ago ( we have not seen each other for almost a year ).

After looking closely, the blue of my eyes has become more vibrant and slightly darker -- used to be more of a gray blue; the gold flecks around the pupil have decreased.

( not necessarily during an off period)

I added a current pic of my eye -- to use as a baseline to track future changes if any

I have noticed in the past that, when my anti-inflammatory supplement dosing is high, my eyes have increased various shades of blue.

Hadn't checked my eyes with c60 yet, but I see now that they are as blue as they ever have been.

On the gray goatee hair front... Darkening continues. It's now salt and pepper whereas before I increased the dose it had been almost entirely gray-white.

[Huckfinn]

HighDesertWizard,

what is your current dose of C60OO?

[BarrelBoy]

It's tempting for me to report that all of my physical senses have been enhanced as a result of taking ~25mg EOD, but I'm not certain. I haven't thought of a good way to test it, but I think that (along with enhanced smell - which is kind of ridiculous sometimes (I'm outside and can smell a guy's cologne from about 60 ft away)) my visual acuity has increased slightly. I've been noticing more detail in objects that I've routinely been exposed to before and my eyestrain/redness that is the result of looking at screens for 8+ hrs a day has completely disappeared (this has greatly improved my quality of life and I'm very thankful for it).

 

I'm curious what some of the upper limits someone has taken have been and for how long.

[sensei]

It's tempting for me to report that all of my physical senses have been enhanced as a result of taking ~25mg EOD, but I'm not certain. I haven't thought of a good way to test it, but I think that (along with enhanced smell - which is kind of ridiculous sometimes (I'm outside and can smell a guy's cologne from about 60 ft away)) my visual acuity has increased slightly. I've been noticing more detail in objects that I've routinely been exposed to before and my eyestrain/redness that is the result of looking at screens for 8+ hrs a day has completely disappeared (this has greatly improved my quality of life and I'm very thankful for it).

 

I'm curious what some of the upper limits someone has taken have been and for how long.

 

 

The increased acuity of smell can be aggravating -- I smell everything now -- body odor takes alot of getting used to.

 

It may be a little graphic, but I can actually tell when a woman is on her monthly cycle -- by the smell when she walks by.  I own a business and frequently clean the employee bathroom -- that's how I correlated the different smell to that time of the month.  I think I can actually smell the metallic tang of the iron, because I have a friend with a machine shop and when around alot of steel/iron the smell is comparable.

 

I can also smell the difference between people -- not B.O. -- from a few feet away.

 

Not only that -- unless the water is purified -- I can taste what seems like every impurity.

 

I can actually discriminate multiple discrete smells and tastes where before  there seemed to be only one -- illuminates why dogs do that sniffing thing in the air when they walk in a room.

Edited by sensei, 20 March 2015 - 07:51 PM.

[Logic]

 I've been noticing more detail in objects that I've routinely been exposed to before and my eyestrain/redness that is the result of looking at screens for 8+ hrs a day has completely disappeared (this has greatly improved my quality of life and I'm very thankful for it).

 

OFF TOPIC:

This makes the Interweb-of-lies much less painful on the eyes and Longecity much more like what it should look like for people interested in saving their eyes IMHO.

ie: A dark background with light text and oranges and reds in stead of the highly destructive blue.

https://chrome.googl...hhhkmoekeicedej

[mait]

Hello,

 

My Update after 2 months of 40mg C60 every other day (20 mg a day) dosing schedule. I have 2 big positive observations to report and one possible negative observation to report:

• I have been doing 100-150 deep squats every morning at vigorous speeds. What’s amazing is no muscle pain or stiffness results from this training regime. I tried this training regime once before 2 years ago and I had to stop it because of constant muscle ache. (I follow this training program #https://www.youtube....v=qrqtml0IVH4#)
• Alcohol tolerance is through the roof so to say compared to my baseline or compared to low dosing schedule of C60 used before (15mg C60 per week) – I can drink up to blood alcohol level of 1 – 1.2 (0.1% BAC) level and still have reaction times constantly around 230-260ms, which is my normal range of reaction times. No hangover is present next morning.    
• Negative: I have developed two deep and visible age grooves that go all the way across my forehead during last 2 months that weren’t there before. Maybe it’s normal for 27 year old or maybe its related to high dosages of C60. I don’t know. Overall my face and skinn seem to be somewhat older looking than just 2-3 monts ago.

With Best Regards

Edited by mait, 21 March 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[ambivalent]

A week after completing a dosing schedule of 225mg in 17 days I started drinking a bottle of wine. The first couple of glasses had little effect, rather like fruit cordial and by the time I had finished the bottle I felt, as commonly reported, lucid but also under the influence*: I then decided to play the dual n-back game and noted my performance was marginally better than normal (high variance though); I felt in patches very focussed. Awakening the next morning I experienced next to no effect, which would be uncharacteristic after a bottle of wine. It's strange and hard to describle this split consciousness where the experience is one of being both affected and unaffected by the alcohol but it is seems to be a common account. Nothing especially new here but I thought it worth reporting since the product was Vaughter Wellness c60 (Mikey expressed concerns VW-c60 might not be inhibiting the effect of alcohol as other brands have), and also it was around a week after my final dose, which might surprise some given the expected short half-life of c60 in the blood. 

 

Mait, we all make our decisions, ordinarily one would imagine there isn't much to lose at your age in waiting to see how a few brave souls get on with high dosing. As you probably know, Mikey, though, has been daily dosing at high levels, but net lower than yours, for quite some time and shown improvements in skin and a reduction in wrinkles (Sensei too naturally).

 

A concern I have with regular dosing of c60 that is most likely blocking autophagy, considerably more knowledable forumites, though, didn't seem concerned because powerful antioxidants should mittigate the need for autophagy by preventing ROS damage. Anyhow, I upped my fasting over and around that period as c60 hopefully shouldn't inhibit the autophagy induced by fasting:

 

here is the article on NAC blocking skeletal muscle autophagy 

 

One other anecdote, I felt surprisingly tired legs recently less than a week ago; I had't noticed this was quite a common effect until I read an account a couple of days back.

 

 

 

* the sampled experienced of c60 and alcohol is small and not consistent. During one evening over the 17 days I was poured a shot possibly two of vodka with coke when with friends, this will have been within a couple of days of taking a 45 mg c60; the account is somewhat vague, but I certainly felt a strange and fairly rapid effect one that I did not feel retained lucidity.     

 

 

[pone11]

I found a 2006 study on C60 fullerenes in vivo that predates Baati through an old post here on Longecity, and I added to that thread:

http://www.longecity...ition/?p=720036

 

I would urge anyone taking megadoses of C60 to read Table 1 in the Italian study I post at the bottom of that reply.  There are no dosing studies on C60, and the IAC study suggests that similar antioxidants can have a narrow range of benefit, with dramatic lifespan extension at the appropriate dose, and equally dramatic lifespan REDUCTION at slightly higher doses.

[PerfectSeek]

Thanks to others for their detailed reports on c60.  Here's mine:

 

Background:

•  Age 28 male
•  CFS since Age 19
•  LPR (nausea, reflux) since 26
•  Other supplements: Carnosine, Lithium Orotate, NR (I notice nothing from this), Vitamin D, Zinc, Acetyl-Glucosamine, Creatine, Mg Glycinate

 

Dosage:

•  Initially: As high as 15mg/week
•  Chronically: 3mg-5mg/week

 

Positives

•  Dramatic increase in energy levels and endurance initially, which seemed to taper off.  Supports anti-hormesis theory. 
•  Nearly cured my CFS at first, but not able to reproduce over the long term.  It was absolutely fantastic while it lasted.  I have never responded that positively to anything and I have tried thousands of supplements for my CFS. 
•  Tolerance of alcohol is definitely increased, particularly with higher dosages. 
•  Over the long term, despite no longer feeling like a miracle, I still notice increased exercise tolerance

 

Neutral/Negative

•  Required escalating dosages to feel the same effect, couldn't reproduce initial positives. 
•  I felt incredible results from just 3mg at first, now I feel very little from 3mg. 
•  No noticable asthetic changes.  I've started balding and haven't noticed any regrowth. 
•  At higher dosages, fever / flu like symptoms
•  At higher dosages, restless sleep
•  No impact on stomach/reflux issues

 

Will continue to report back if anything changes.

 

 

Edited by PerfectSeek, 22 March 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[SarahB12]

I wonder if anyone has noticed changes in their limbal ring.  Supposedly the limbal ring is more pronounced with youth and health, but I've never seen a reason "why" this is. I was curious if a limbal ring change could make the eyes appear lighter or different as some people have noted. 

 

[pone11]

Thanks to others for their detailed reports on c60.  Here's mine:

 

Dosage:

•  Initially: As high as 15mg/week
•  Chronically: 3mg-5mg/week

 

Positives

•  Dramatic increase in energy levels and endurance initially, which seemed to taper off.  Supports anti-hormesis theory. 
•  Nearly cured my CFS at first, but not able to reproduce over the long term.  It was absolutely fantastic while it lasted.  I have never responded that positively to anything and I have tried thousands of supplements for my CFS. 
•  Tolerance of alcohol is definitely increased, particularly with higher dosages. 
•  Over the long term, despite no longer feeling like a miracle, I still notice increased exercise tolerance

 

Neutral/Negative

•  Required escalating dosages to feel the same effect, couldn't reproduce initial positives. 
•  I felt incredible results from just 3mg at first, now I feel very little from 3mg. 
•  No noticable asthetic changes.  I've started balding and haven't noticed any regrowth. 
•  At higher dosages, fever / flu like symptoms
•  At higher dosages, restless sleep
•  No impact on stomach/reflux issues

 

Will continue to report back if anything changes.

 

That was a great report.   The immune responses at higher doses seem to agree with some studies that show C60 causing markers of DNA damage and broad spectrum immune responses, already discussed in other C60 threads:

http://www.docdroid....cology.pdf.html

 

The key issue to me is hormesis.   It is critical to humans being able to thrive that exercise drive improvements in the ability to generate energy.   Our crude understanding of this is currently based on hormesis:  small amounts of exercise generate extra ROS, and the body responds to this insult positively by increasing the number of mitochondria and increasing endogenous antioxidants like SOD and catalase.   If an antioxidant is so effective that it blocks this effect, the body might start to lower mitochondria levels and fail to respond to exercise, because the natural regulator of mitochondrial activity is being hidden.   The magic question is at what dose do you get improvements in your ability to handle ROS without compromising your ability to respond to exercise?   That dose may be much lower than anyone currently believes.  

 

I understand that you have CFS, but do you exercise, and have you noticed any loss of ability to benefit from exercise when you are taking C60?    Have you tried really small doses, like even 1 ml = 0.8 mg once a week, just to test if this allows you to get improvements from exercise?

 

Ideally, you would want to get a before and after snapshot of the number of mitochondria you have and their activity.   I guess that requires a tissue biopsy, and maybe some research-level testing, neither of which is easy or cheap.   Just an off-the-cuff idea:   could you use VO2Max testing as a proxy for mitochondrial health and activity?   If your VO2Max is not limited by your cardiac and lung function (and with CFS it probably is not), then is VO2Max then a proxy for mitochondrial efficiency and activity?   If you are responding to exercise with new mitochondria, that number should increase over time.   Maybe back off C60 doses until you get evidence that exercise creates VO2Max improvements?    I'm just trying to find something *objective* that can be used as a guideline for dosing.   Subjective estimates of energy or well being are very deceptive.   How your body uses O2 and CO2 at a given workload is not something you can fake.   And it is directly tied to both your ability to deliver oxygen and your mitochondria's ability to function in the electron transport chain of aerobic metabolism (OXPHOS).

Edited by pone11, 22 March 2015 - 07:22 PM.

[sensei]

I've decided to take a break from the high C60 dosing I have been doing until I have completely resolved other health issues.

 

It seems the taper may have been too sudden, or perhaps the C60OO (I took three 27 mg doses in the last week) contributed due to its anti-benzodiazepine effects.

 

Anyway, I'm putting it on hold until I get everything sorted out.

[PerfectSeek]

 

Thanks to others for their detailed reports on c60.  Here's mine:

 

Dosage:

•  Initially: As high as 15mg/week
•  Chronically: 3mg-5mg/week

 

Positives

•  Dramatic increase in energy levels and endurance initially, which seemed to taper off.  Supports anti-hormesis theory. 
•  Nearly cured my CFS at first, but not able to reproduce over the long term.  It was absolutely fantastic while it lasted.  I have never responded that positively to anything and I have tried thousands of supplements for my CFS. 
•  Tolerance of alcohol is definitely increased, particularly with higher dosages. 
•  Over the long term, despite no longer feeling like a miracle, I still notice increased exercise tolerance

 

Neutral/Negative

•  Required escalating dosages to feel the same effect, couldn't reproduce initial positives. 
•  I felt incredible results from just 3mg at first, now I feel very little from 3mg. 
•  No noticable asthetic changes.  I've started balding and haven't noticed any regrowth. 
•  At higher dosages, fever / flu like symptoms
•  At higher dosages, restless sleep
•  No impact on stomach/reflux issues

 

Will continue to report back if anything changes.

 

That was a great report.   The immune responses at higher doses seem to agree with some studies that show C60 causing markers of DNA damage and broad spectrum immune responses, already discussed in other C60 threads:

http://www.docdroid....cology.pdf.html

 

The key issue to me is hormesis.   It is critical to humans being able to thrive that exercise drive improvements in the ability to generate energy.   Our crude understanding of this is currently based on hormesis:  small amounts of exercise generate extra ROS, and the body responds to this insult positively by increasing the number of mitochondria and increasing endogenous antioxidants like SOD and catalase.   If an antioxidant is so effective that it blocks this effect, the body might start to lower mitochondria levels and fail to respond to exercise, because the natural regulator of mitochondrial activity is being hidden.   The magic question is at what dose do you get improvements in your ability to handle ROS without compromising your ability to respond to exercise?   That dose may be much lower than anyone currently believes.  

 

I understand that you have CFS, but do you exercise, and have you noticed any loss of ability to benefit from exercise when you are taking C60?    Have you tried really small doses, like even 1 ml = 0.8 mg once a week, just to test if this allows you to get improvements from exercise?

 

Ideally, you would want to get a before and after snapshot of the number of mitochondria you have and their activity.   I guess that requires a tissue biopsy, and maybe some research-level testing, neither of which is easy or cheap.   Just an off-the-cuff idea:   could you use VO2Max testing as a proxy for mitochondrial health and activity?   If your VO2Max is not limited by your cardiac and lung function (and with CFS it probably is not), then is VO2Max then a proxy for mitochondrial efficiency and activity?   If you are responding to exercise with new mitochondria, that number should increase over time.   Maybe back off C60 doses until you get evidence that exercise creates VO2Max improvements?    I'm just trying to find something *objective* that can be used as a guideline for dosing.   Subjective estimates of energy or well being are very deceptive.   How your body uses O2 and CO2 at a given workload is not something you can fake.   And it is directly tied to both your ability to deliver oxygen and your mitochondria's ability to function in the electron transport chain of aerobic metabolism (OXPHOS).

 

 

It's very interesting that the exceptionally positive response couldn't be maintained, it does appear that some compensatory mechanism in my body is activated on c60.  My first dosage was actually as small ~0.5mg, and I still felt something.  I quickly ramped up so I don't have a lot of data on this dosage.  I still get semi-miraculous effects for my CFS if I don't take it for 3-4 weeks and then start back up. 

 

For weight training, c60 does not appear to negative influence adaptation.  I am able to see better strength gains with it and better endurance. 

 

For HIIT sprint training (unable to do this without crashing before c60), I might be seeing a slower ability to adapt.  I logged 7 sessions without improvement in intensity parameters.  I don't have a baseline to compare this to though, but I would expect faster adaptation. 

 

I haven't had any VO2 max testing. 

 

 

 

 

[sensei]

Congrats on the taper, question have you not been taking any C60 since you started the taper? 

 

 

I didn't follow my plan and used some C60 OO on the 20th, three days after my last dose.

 

It seems that C60OO at a dose of 27 mg (.3 mg/kg) at least in my case, acts as a benzodiazepine antagonist.

 

I woke early morning the 21st in panic -- and have been in a classic BZD withdrawal state since.

 

On physicians recommendation, I restarted use 3/21 at 1.5 mg skipped a day then 1 mg on 3/23 and will stay at 1 mg (.5 am .5 pm) for 10 days to 2 weeks.

 

Just now starting to feel better.

[cuprous]

 

Congrats on the taper, question have you not been taking any C60 since you started the taper? 

 

 

I didn't follow my plan and used some C60 OO on the 20th, three days after my last dose.

 

It seems that C60OO at a dose of 27 mg (.3 mg/kg) at least in my case, acts as a benzodiazepine antagonist.

 

I woke early morning the 21st in panic -- and have been in a classic BZD withdrawal state since.

 

On physicians recommendation, I restarted use 3/21 at 1.5 mg skipped a day then 1 mg on 3/23 and will stay at 1 mg (.5 am .5 pm) for 10 days to 2 weeks.

 

Just now starting to feel better.

 

 

Thanks for the updates, sensei.  As someone who has/does suffer from panic disorder I sympathize with your discomfort.

 

It's interesting.. I've read anecdotes from people taking benzos to get off of alcohol refer to it as "alcohol in a pill form."  Given that so many of us have reported increased tolerance for alcohol it is perhaps not surprising that c60 is also negating some effects of your medication.  The question is whether c60's effect is on the CNS or whether the liver is metabolizing these drugs at a faster rate.

 

An easy test would be to get a breathalyzer, give c60 a few weeks to clear, take a measured amount of alcohol and breathalyze yourself over a couple hours.  Then repeat a day after a solid dose of c60.  The resulting data should be informative.

 

If some of the smarter minds on here think that would be a decent exercise I would gladly buy a breathalyzer and subject myself to the above.. all in the name of science of course.  

[sensei]

 

 

Thanks for the updates, sensei.  As someone who has/does suffer from panic disorder I sympathize with your discomfort.

 

An easy test would be to get a breathalyzer, give c60 a few weeks to clear, take a measured amount of alcohol and breathalyze yourself over a couple hours.  T

If some of the smarter minds on here think that would be a decent exercise I would gladly buy a breathalyzer and subject myself to the above.. all in the name of science of course.  

 

 

I'll have to decline the breathalyzer.

 

Sober since 2012

 

Anyway, I noticed previously that when I was on a 4 mg dose during my taper, it took 14 mg to get to sleep after a large dose ( 45 mg or 90 mg I can't remember).

 

I think the effect becomes more pronounced the lower the dose of BZD -- when i was taking 15 mg / day I never noticed any negative issues.

Edited by sensei, 25 March 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Walter Derzko]

Panic Disorders and Oxidative Stress

Panic disorders are triggered by excess free radicals in the body which Carbon C60 hydrated fullerenes neutralise at a dose of 0,0002 mg per 100 mls, or 3 tablespoons per day. I've seen 4 cases recently.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.... panic disorder