196 replies to this topic

[thegron]

Hey guys, I found this survey page on Benzobuddies. I'm not sure how reliable it is but people on that site seem to think it is accurate.

http://www.benzosupp...overy_times.htm

[inw]

Yea man I get the same thing, the depersonalization makes it almost impossible to drive or do anything most of the time b/c it starts the anxiety, it's like a constant hangover fog vision. I've seen everything go away too for a day here and there and also for 5 days straight once. Everything that I've read on benzo withdrawal states that it will come and go until it stops coming back, it is almost never linear. I did a very slow taper with the idiot dr and I still ended up really shot out so as you did a CT I know it can take a little longer sometimes. On the other hand I've also seen CT people 100% back to normal at 6 months or less, it has everything to do with genetics.
Regarding Flumazenil
Someone on benzobuddies reported back from overseas and you're right, they took an IV dose of Flumazenil from a dr. I skimmed the article and Flumazenil looks promising as in the 24 hr delivery method.
GRON
Stay with it too man, I'm telling you guys I've seen a ton of people on the benzo site that were like us around this time and then around 12-14+ months they turned a corner.

[inw]

Gron - I looked at that survey a lot, it's a very good reminder, 67% were healed by a year which suggests that most of the lingering symptoms will go away around 18-24months. Of course we should take the survey with a grain of salt due to so many variables, because I bet there are people who were back to work and doing normal things like they used to but they still considered themselve in withdrawal or highly symptomatic.

Regarding cognitive impairment/mental thoughts
I got my 'personality' back at probably around 4-5 months off, I was back to my quick witted humor. I can also say that at around month 7 the irrational fears and crazy thoughts started going away.

[thegron]

Thanks inw for the encouragement.

[Christopher Rockwell]

Here is a video of the pump they use in Australia for the flumazenil infusions. I know where to get it and the flow tubes for it. All we need is the flumazenil.

[inw]

If it's in Virginia, there must be a way to order it at the pharmacy if you can find a dr to give a prescription. It's insane that a HUGE majority of dr's have no idea how messed up benzo withdrawal makes you. They think 'masking' it with an SSRI or something is the answer when you really need a 'solution' to revert the changes. They're not admitting that it totally altered the GABA and other receptors.

[thegron]

Well yes inw, it is unfortunate that a lot of Physicians/Pharmacists do not care enough to take the time to learn more about PAWS. By the by, Flumazenil is not kept at Pharmacies. It can only be found in Hospital Pharmacies. And by Hospital Pharmacies, I mean the in-patient only ones. By the way, I'm a Pharmacy student.

[inw]

Ok I see, so yea Flumazenil would have to be mentioned to a dr. in the hospital, it's just insane that the patient has to recommend a treatment that they "think" may revert the changes from PAWS quicker. A heroin, cocaine, or any other substance has a treatment protocol.

[Christopher Rockwell]

I'm going to see my internist tomorrow for a general checkup. I'm going to ask him if he would be willing to do a flumazenil infusion on me. I'm going to bring that pdf. Any suggestions on how to convince him?

[thegron]

I mean honestly, he's going to think you're crazy. You should hit up google scholar and find as many studies as you can and bring them with you. One study isn't enough.

[Christopher Rockwell]

I don't care what he thinks. I can put him in touch with two doctors who can explain the whole thing to them. Of course they are Aussie doctors and so they aren't considered equals by arrogant American doctors who are behind the times driving this country into third world status. I'll print out as much as I can and then I'm just going to have to reason with him.

[Lufega]

I went through Phentermine withdrawal for a week. That is, until I took 400 mg magnesium 3 times a day. I was normal again by day 3. Magnesium also prevents some of the tolerance issues seen with amphetamines so it might be worth a try.

[Christopher Rockwell]

What type of magnesium? There are a few different kinds. Chloride, taurate, citrate etc...

[Lufega]

I used the krebs magnesium. It's cheap and has 250 mg per pill. Took about 6 a day. Seriously. It worked very well.

[inw]

Madnesium is definitely on the list of supplements to take in benzo withdrawal >>> http://www.longecity...ly-effectively/

[AwesomeName]

Would flumazenil suppositories work?
Also if you ordered the stuff in bulk from alibaba or something couldn't you just eat a bunch of it since only 5% gets absorbed and get the same effect as IV?
Or just stick it in the back door, either way.

This seems like a better method if you needed to take the stuff constantly over a month or something.

[Christopher Rockwell]

The doctor didn't want to touch it. Said it's experimental. He said he didn't know who to send me to. Read the abstract and handed it back to me. Says to go to the Coleman Institute or go to Australia or wait it out. Was hoping for at least a lead. We are really on own our in this. Anything other than SC infusion just seems unreliable. There are places to order flumazenil but you must have a university or research facility address. Any ideas?

[protoject]

just a thought, I found magnesium barely helpful at all. hopefully it works for you. also I think buying flumaznil from alibaba might be an extremely wreckless idea, try a more trusted source than some overseas chem factory who manufactures drywall and happened to have some Flumazenil left over.

[inw]

Yea I stated in the other thread that I tried 5-htp, L-theanine, bacopa, magnesium, fish oil, and a few other basic supps but nothing made a difference. I've read a ton of stories from benzobuddies and I know the conclusion is "waiting" 8-16 months" which sucks. It comes and goes, then when the good window stays for 4+ weeks you should be healed.

[Christopher Rockwell]

You can't order the flumazenil from just any internet source because you need certain specifications. It needs to have a ph level of 7 to do a subcutaneous infusion or so I'm told. So basically you need to mix 12 mgs with saline into a 30 ml flow tube that infuses you over 72 hours. You then refill every 3 days until you reach 12 days.

[AwesomeName]

You can't order the flumazenil from just any internet source because you need certain specifications. It needs to have a ph level of 7 to do a subcutaneous infusion or so I'm told. So basically you need to mix 12 mgs with saline into a 30 ml flow tube that infuses you over 72 hours. You then refill every 3 days until you reach 12 days.

I've ordered it in injectable form from pharmacies like goldpharma. I injected 5 ml into myself over a period of 2 days. It made me tired, and slightly happy the next day.
I posted about it under another username c60tester.

I think it must be taken in larger quantities and over a longer period of time to get any real effect.

You can order it in bulk from china or something from places like alibaba.com, my friend has ordered stuff from there with no questions.

It only has a 5% or so oral absorbability rate so you could try that or take it that way or rectally for much higher absorbability.

[AwesomeName]

just a thought, I found magnesium barely helpful at all. hopefully it works for you. also I think buying flumaznil from alibaba might be an extremely wreckless idea, try a more trusted source than some overseas chem factory who manufactures drywall and happened to have some Flumazenil left over.

I know it's from china but they manufacture medical grade chemicals. There are many different companies competing for you. I think it should be safe.

[protoject]

just a thought, I found magnesium barely helpful at all. hopefully it works for you. also I think buying flumaznil from alibaba might be an extremely wreckless idea, try a more trusted source than some overseas chem factory who manufactures drywall and happened to have some Flumazenil left over.

I know it's from china but they manufacture medical grade chemicals. There are many different companies competing for you. I think it should be safe.

The standards for medical purity in China can be pretty shitty, especially when there's no international law governing what they can and can't sell to you. there are no regulations on that. I know for sure that there are a few good great indian and chinese manufacturers who probably produce high purity products. I believe I actually found one [but they don't make flumazenil]. However a lot of it is unregulated and you really have no idea what's in it, even if they give you an in-house COA.. it really proves nothing. But yeah I am just saying people should be wary of what companies they buy from. Some companies specifically manufacture human-grade quality, and have good reputation for that, and specialize in that area.. others do not. Though it's kind of hard to tell online. And it's even worse if you lack the knowledge of what certain terms mean. . for example if someone buys a certain form of the chemical which is not injectable but they didn't know so they did it anyway and ended up with huge problems.

[Lufega]

How much magnesium did you all try ? The key is in the dose. More in this case is better.

[BioFreak]

I haven't read the whole thread, and I don't know if this came up.

Have you ever realized that your symptoms could also be classified in the adhd/add realm? And since you are taking an SSRI (still?) all you do is increase serotonin. That in turn downregulates dopamine. And your symptoms like bad memory, lack of focus, complex thinking are all associated with not enough dopamine in the brain. It may be that your problems are not related to gaba anymore, but to low dopamine/high serotonin.

So I would suggest, if it is possible depression wise, to taper of the ssri, and increase dopamine through tyrosine and cofactors at the same time.

But of course always ask your doc first.

[Heh]

L-Phenylalanine does more for dopamine that L-Tyrosine, and it doesn't build tolerance as quickly. Try with Vitamin C and B6 and without and see which one works.

Cerebrolysin may also help clear you up. 5ml 5 days a week for 4 weeks.

Also, a very high dose of Niacin is worth trying. 3g Niacin, 3g Vitamin C, 1g Pantothenic Acid (build up to that dosage over time). That should help flush random garbage out of your system as well as possibly help start the process of fixing you up.

[BioFreak]

the body converts phenylalanine into tyrosine, so taking tyrosine should be more effective. Maybe that could be the problem, since tyrosine ccould more easily eat up cofactors, and then the tolerance feeling would be the bodies inability to convert tyrosine into dopamine anymore.
that, and/or receptor downregulation, because tyrosine would have to have a bigger impact on dopamine then phenylalanine.

I see no reason why phenylalanine should be superior to tyrosine, other then being weaker and therefore above reasons could play a role.

[Galaxyshock]

Phenylalanine also converts to phenylethylamine that releases dopamine and noradrenaline.

[BioFreak]

Phenylalanine also converts to phenylethylamine that releases dopamine and noradrenaline.

Thats interesting, thanks. Gotta research that.

Hmm. Wiki says tyrosine, dopamine and adrenaline are phenylethylamines. Which is exactly, what tyrosine is doing, but one step ahead of phenylalanine so it would be still a better choice.

Edited by BioFreak, 13 February 2013 - 05:16 PM.

[AwesomeName]

Bump.

Any updates on this?

Have any of you tried cerebrolysin to fix this?