6219 replies to this topic

[Reformed-Redan]

yadayada,

I can only speak for myself, but my intentions are to test it on my lab rat and share the results, I think everyone else is planning on doing the same.

Good 'ol wishful thinking.

[Q did it!]

Frankly, we really should make future group buys private or available only to Longecity members. I don't see why someone strolling by can jump in. I mean its like walking along the street and look at a bag full of powder and decide to ingest it. If you've invested your time and interest into researching these compounds like many registered Longecity members and have even some superficial conception of what you're dealing with, then they are the people who should be researching these compounds. (As a matter of fact only research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies are legally allowed to do that.) So, this is getting shady here and I don't want to be part of a group buy that has irresponsible individuals who might harm themselves. I, by participating in the group buy, become an accessory in irresponsible behavior to themselves and potentially others.

In fact, in future group buys, if they do happen, we should send out letters of intent and relinquishment of liability to any potential participants. That way everyone is responsible for their own actions and nobody else can be implicated in any wrongdoing.

+1

[focus83]

To everyone freaking out. People who choose to will post their results eventually. You will just have to wait a bit longer and be patient.

Acquiring this compound is quasi legal, we are using this is for research purposes, but I'm sure a certain companies lawyers would have a different view. That's why I think people should keep this low key.

Well, this consideration definitely comes to late, because the order has already been placed while the forum was still public. So IF some lawyers really plan to intervene they will do it irregardless of the forum being private or not. They have most certainly already copied all the meaningful content by now.

Don't you think it's a little native to assume that making a forum private for a couple of weeks or months will make this endeavour more legal? Eventually people participating in this group buy will post about their experiences, nobody will be able to prevent this. And then at the latest it is evident that the NSI-189 was not only ordered, but also consumed by individuals for non-research purposes.

I yet have to read a convincing argument for making this thread private. People in the group buy try to come up with elaborate explanations about preventing various forms of bias and what not when in fact there is no way to prevent this in an internet group buy that lacks the necessary monitoring bodies with direct control over the participants. It's really common sense.


Maybe the only convincing argument I read so far was the one from Megatrone, who said without beating about the bush that he wants to have the edge over others and also doesn't want people to benefit from this chemical who contributed little or nothing to the community. While I can relate to his feelings somehow, I don't think like he does and really hope that the forums won't be made private for this reason.

------------------------
A little side note @Megatrone here: Don't be so afraid that word spreads about NSI-189. It will, but even if this chemical turns out to be the mother of all noots, there will always be a very limited amount of people who are willing to ingest a poorly researched chemical. And yet others won't be able to afford it. You'll have at least a couple of years to enjoy your edge over others should the NSI-189 ever make it to the market. And even then it will be a drug reserved for the mentally ill and not for the widespread public. Either way, your pioneer attitude will be awarded if this experiment works out well.
------------------------

I have the strong feeling that, although participants won't acknowledge that to themselves, they just don't like to put their health and money at stake while other members and even Longecity ousiders watch the outcome from "a safe distance". But in fact this is what happens all the time here on Longecity and other forums with people playing guinea pig by acquiring obscure and poorly researched chemicals (Coluracetam, Sunifiram etc.) or supplements, even designer drugs while others loved to watch the results. The only difference with NSI-189 is that the hopes for this chemical are exponentially higher than for other chemicals thus far, apart from maybe PRL 8-53 and Dihexa. Anyhow, when kept in perspective, this group buy is nothing so special that the results deserve to be withheld from the community, neither for a month nor a week. It completely defeats the purpose of this community.

I guess there are plenty of people in this group buy who are also immensely interested in the results of the PRL 8-53 and Dihexa group buys and would hate to see the results kept private. So if you really decide to make the results thread private other group buys will adopt this practice as well and before you know it Longecity will be plastered with private result threads. What a prospect! Is that really what you guys want? Keep in mind that most likely many more interesting group buys will follow and you won't be able to participate and thus be an "insider" in all of them. Wouldn't it suck to wait impatiently "outside the door" for months until the results are made public?

Edited by focus83, 15 May 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[focus83]

Frankly, we really should make future group buys private or available only to Longecity members. I don't see why someone strolling by can jump in. I mean its like walking along the street and look at a bag full of powder and decide to ingest it. If you've invested your time and interest into researching these compounds like many registered Longecity members and have even some superficial conception of what you're dealing with, then they are the people who should be researching these compounds. (As a matter of fact only research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies are legally allowed to do that.) So, this is getting shady here and I don't want to be part of a group buy that has irresponsible individuals who might harm themselves. I, by participating in the group buy, become an accessory in irresponsible behavior to themselves and potentially others.

In fact, in future group buys, if they do happen, we should send out letters of intent and relinquishment of liability to any potential participants. That way everyone is responsible for their own actions and nobody else can be implicated in any wrongdoing.

By definition, everyone in this group buy is acting irresponsibly, be it the long time member with 4k posts or the newly joined outsider. There is little to be researched about this chemical, because hardly any data is available about effects and side effects. We know that the hippocampus of rats grew approx. by 20%, but if this happens in humans as well and what the implications of this are, noone knows. We can't even speculate about its MOA, because so little is known.
In the light of this, it makes little sense to categorize this group into "responsible" and "irresponsible" acting participants when in fact all are part of the latter category.

So I really don't understand why you worry about someone "strolling by" and jumping in. Some longtime member with thousand of posts can be as uninformed about a chemical as anyone else joining from outside, especially if there is almost no study data available.
I do however advocate that long time members are given the advantage over new ones in participating in a group buy. The first come, first serve principle would be out of place here, IMO. Not because I'm afraid that new members are uninformed, but rather because it's a matter of decency and respect.

Whether or not it makes sense to send out letters of intent and relinquishment of liability I really don't know. Maybe it's better than not doing it, although I doubt this will protect the group and its organizer from all legal troubles. Once something goes terribly wrong in a group buy that also makes it to the public, we can be prepared that the era of group buys will come to an end and can only hope that no prosecution will follow.

Edited by focus83, 15 May 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Izan]

Frankly, we really should make future group buys private or available only to Longecity members. I don't see why someone strolling by can jump in. I mean its like walking along the street and look at a bag full of powder and decide to ingest it. If you've invested your time and interest into researching these compounds like many registered Longecity members and have even some superficial conception of what you're dealing with, then they are the people who should be researching these compounds. (As a matter of fact only research laboratories and pharmaceutical companies are legally allowed to do that.) So, this is getting shady here and I don't want to be part of a group buy that has irresponsible individuals who might harm themselves. I, by participating in the group buy, become an accessory in irresponsible behavior to themselves and potentially others.

In fact, in future group buys, if they do happen, we should send out letters of intent and relinquishment of liability to any potential participants. That way everyone is responsible for their own actions and nobody else can be implicated in any wrongdoing.

totally agree.

[Kyle McGill]

To everyone freaking out. People who choose to will post their results eventually. You will just have to wait a bit longer and be patient.

Acquiring this compound is quasi legal, we are using this is for research purposes, but I'm sure a certain companies lawyers would have a different view. That's why I think people should keep this low key.

Well, this consideration definitely comes to late, because the order has already been placed while the forum was still public. So IF some lawyers really plan to intervene they will do it irregardless of the forum being private or not. They have most certainly already copied all the meaningful content by now.

Don't you think it's a little native to assume that making a forum private for a couple of weeks or months will make this endeavour more legal? Eventually people participating in this group buy will post about their experiences, nobody will be able to prevent this. And then at the latest it is evident that the NSI-189 was not only ordered, but also consumed by individuals for non-research purposes.

I yet have to read a convincing argument for making this thread private. People in the group buy try to come up with elaborate explanations about preventing various forms of bias and what not when in fact there is no way to prevent this in an internet group buy that lacks the necessary monitoring bodies with direct control over the participants. It's really common sense.


Maybe the only convincing argument I read so far was the one from Megatrone, who said without beating about the bush that he wants to have the edge over others and also doesn't want people to benefit from this chemical who contributed little or nothing to the community. While I can relate to his feelings somehow, I don't think like he does and really hope that the forums won't be made private for this reason.

------------------------
A little side note @Megatrone here: Don't be so afraid that word spreads about NSI-189. It will, but even if this chemical turns out to be the mother of all noots, there will always be a very limited amount of people who are willing to ingest a poorly researched chemical. And yet others won't be able to afford it. You'll have at least a couple of years to enjoy your edge over others should the NSI-189 ever make it to the market. And even then it will be a drug reserved for the mentally ill and not for the widespread public. Either way, your pioneer attitude will be awarded if this experiment works out well.
------------------------

I have the strong feeling that, although participants won't acknowledge that to themselves, they just don't like to put their health and money at stake while other members and even Longecity ousiders watch the outcome from "a safe distance". But in fact this is what happens all the time here on Longecity and other forums with people playing guinea pig by acquiring obscure and poorly researched chemicals (Coluracetam, Sunifiram etc.) or supplements, even designer drugs while others loved to watch the results. The only difference with NSI-189 is that the hopes for this chemical are exponentially higher than for other chemicals thus far, apart from maybe PRL 8-53 and Dihexa. Anyhow, when kept in perspective, this group buy is nothing so special that the results deserve to be withheld from the community, neither for a month nor a week. It completely defeats the purpose of this community.

I guess there are plenty of people in this group buy who are also immensely interested in the results of the PRL 8-53 and Dihexa group buys and would hate to see the results kept private. So if you really decide to make the results thread private other group buys will adopt this practice as well and before you know it Longecity will be plastered with private result threads. What a prospect! Is that really what you guys want? Keep in mind that most likely many more interesting group buys will follow and you won't be able to participate and thus be an "insider" in all of them. Wouldn't it suck to wait impatiently "outside the door" for months until the results are made public?

Totally agree.

+1

[Reformed-Redan]

Hey, if someone feels they owe it to the world to report their experiences with any compound, so be it. Just so that you know, their reports will be based on that bias, to appeal to the "world".

[Web]

Megatrone: Why don't we just take away your computer, your access to internet, your home, your clothes, and your food, and throw you naked into the desert? Your entire quality of life exists because greater people came before you, discovered, innovated, created, and shared the fruits of their labor with one another openly. That is how society works. You are not somehow above it. You would know nothing about this compound and would certainly not have access to it if everyone had your egocentric mentality.

Either way, we'll be able to infer the efficacy whether you all keep it private or not. If it works, you'll disappear. If not, you'll be back looking for something else.

Edited by Web, 15 May 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Izan]

please, could we just drop it already? come on people, stop this negativity please!! if some people want to share their experiences, then let them do so. if some people don't want to share, that's also fine! please stop this nonsense and let us concentrate on other things, perhaps other promising nootropics. please, let it go. thank you!

[Q did it!]

please, could we just drop it already? come on people, stop this negativity please!! if some people want to share their experiences, then let them do so. if some people don't want to share, that's also fine! please stop this nonsense and let us concentrate on other things, perhaps other promising nootropics. please, let it go. thank you!

Yes lets do.

[Web]

are you guys more excited about this or plr-8-53?

[ScienceGuy]

UPDATE:

I checked in with the lab to see how the custom synthesis is coming along

Here's their reply:

"We are very busy purifying the PIPERAZINE intermediate - the one with two N atoms on opposite sides of ring"

Edited by ScienceGuy, 15 May 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[matter_of_time]

I am tired of this discussion, can someone please share some logs / review / experience?

[IA87]

This is impossible considering no one has received the compound yet.

[Passion]

So I imagine that when the time comes, we WILL be waiting for the results of the FDA phase 1b trials before testing this on our OWN lab rats, right?

[Patrick Sylvester]

I am tired of this discussion, can someone please share some logs / review / experience?

impetuous.
i believe its still in-synth.

Edited by Patrick Sylvester, 16 May 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[Xenix]

I'm in favour of making a separate and private thread for the members who are actually taking NSI-189 - at least for the first month, then changing it to public view after the month if necessary. I think this will help avoid trolls, and every second post asking, "Where can I buy some?" or "Where's the second group buy?" and other general thread-derailing comments.

The public don't *need* to know the results STRAIGHT away, and I hardly see how waiting a month for participants to finish testing will have any impact on them.

[Reformed-Redan]

Blah, who cares. Public or private. Each to his own.

[focus83]

I'm in favour of making a separate and private thread for the members who are actually taking NSI-189 - at least for the first month, then changing it to public view after the month if necessary. I think this will help avoid trolls, and every second post asking, "Where can I buy some?" or "Where's the second group buy?" and other general thread-derailing comments.

The public don't *need* to know the results STRAIGHT away, and I hardly see how waiting a month for participants to finish testing will have any impact on them.

All it takes is a clear guideline for the first month or two of the results thread which says that postings by non-participants, especially those with annyoying questions like the one you mentioned, will be deleted and after repeated violation a warning is issued. Combine that with an alert moderator who is willing to do a little more work than usual and a public results thread should work just fine.

Another argument that speaks for a public thread is that most likely the results thread will be FLOODED with postings of all the impatient members after the months-long waiting period is over, not to mention that non-participants have to read through dozens of pages. This could be mitigated if you make the thread public from the very beginning and thus let everyone consume the information bit by bit. It also helps to keep the quality of the thread once it is public, because people will read the information more thoroughly as compared to if they have to read through a 30 page thread first. You know how messy things can get then.

Of course this takes slightly more effort than just closing the thread for the public, but the most important thing is that we keep the free flow of information here on Longecity and set a good example for other group buys. It's actually a no-brainer.

And as I said before, all you participants of this group buy will also benefit if you keep things public, because other group buys will follow your example. Thereby you will have unrestricted and immediate access to the results of group buys you might find highly interesting, too.

So please do everyone here a favor and don't take this decision lightly. You can really alter the community for the worse if you now start withholding information no matter for how long.

[focus83]

Blah, who cares. Public or private. Each to his own.

Yeah, it's easy for you to talk as a participant.

[Artificiality]

This derailment of the topic is reason enough for me to vote for the initial private thread. I want a clear organized topic to post and read, once we've come to a census on the compound I would have no problem making the thread public.

[Rior]

Neuralstem(CUR) at $1.50 today, was closing at $1.15 only 8-9 days ago. Good solid 30% increase. I see a massive increase coming as they release the results of Phase 1 for NSI-566 TOMORROW.

http://www.bloomberg...z9yHXDyh3s.html

Get investing while you can, I've got strong feelings that Neuralstem is going places.

[megatron]

Neuralstem(CUR) at $1.50 today, was closing at $1.15 only 8-9 days ago. Good solid 30% increase. I see a massive increase coming as they release the results of Phase 1 for NSI-566 TOMORROW.

http://www.bloomberg...z9yHXDyh3s.html

Get investing while you can, I've got strong feelings that Neuralstem is going places.

They should have included the time and timezone of the presentation. This is very important, because I need to sell other stocks to free up money for this investment.

Edited by Megatrone, 16 May 2013 - 08:49 PM.

[Xenix]

Any updates on the synthesis, Science guy?

[CognitionCoefficient]

The organizers of the NSI-189 transaction should contact the buyers by PM when the item is ready for shipment, for the shipping cost.

Thanks for the great work.

[Q did it!]

Just letting you guys know that PRIVATE THREADS ARE NOT AN OPTION. I contacted a moderator to find out if it was even possible and it is not.

Persons who are wanting to make the new thread for NIS-189 private are mostly based on selfish reasoning: emphasis on most not all and this is my opinion on the matter, so no offense intended. If this site started using private thread at the beginning it would not grown into what it is today. It is the freedom and availability of the information here on LongeCity that has made it what it is and to try and hide the knowledge even temporarily goes against what LongeCity stands for.



What could be done is or something similar,

What we can do though is in the initial post for the new NIS-189 thread where we outline the project and etc, we can just add a section where it states that it is strongly discouraged for non-participants of the group buy(s) to post till after a given date. Also make it known that persons who do post who are not in the group buy will likely have their post deleted and/or ignored also it could go so far as to report the persons (but this last option would unlikely be used and if it was it would probably be used against tolls)

I am considering using this with thePRL-8-53 Group Trial thread that we will be made as soon as I receive the sample form NovoChemy. Should be sometime next week via Fedex.

[sunshinefrost]

Did longecity consider that some people, who do not own a lab or doesn't represent a research faculty, will also want to get this product and expose themselves ??

[Q did it!]

Did longecity consider that some people, who do not own a lab or doesn't represent a research faculty, will also want to get this product and expose themselves ??

Just passing on the word that private threads are not an option.

It is not LongeCity's job to >above<. LongeCity provides the FREE service of a forum among many things. The forum is meant to be where persons can get together and share ideas/experiences. It was not intended for group buys. A private website with login capabilities and a forum could be used in the future instead of LongeCity forums if privacy/exposure is an issue but I fail to see where the issue would be.
Why can we not just look at this like the Coluracetam User Feedback ​thread as an example? It was not private and users posted just like they would for any other supplement and all went swell. I find that persons may just be getting anxious. Once thecompound is in hand and we are growing new neurons!!!, no one will care really about a private thread but instead, grant it if this actually works, be worried about the next group buy.

General rule of thumb in my mind: forums are public places and you make known only what you let made known. The internet in general is this way . All that is really happening is that persons are testing a research chemical on their "giant lab rat" and reporting back on what they find. No personal information has to be made public.

[Passion]

The truth is, there is no way to keep this compound a secret... It's not really our secret to guard. Regardless of how things play out here, the compound will likely make its way to the masses: first for MDD, then for other disorders, and eventually for the enhancement of healthy individuals (the same way we use piracetam).

Those who are legitimately concerned and nervous about legal implications will calm down with time. We're not doing anything that hasn't been done before. We're not kidnapping a nun or killing scores of puppys. We're just pitching in to get an early sample of a compound that's on it's way to Phase-II trials and we're testing it on our lab rats . I personally think we should wait until the official completion of Phase-I before proceeding, but that's just me. It's also not too late to put together some sort of liability waiver if we feel that's necessary.

Those who are egotistical enough to want to keep it private to have an edge over others will eventually boil over in the boredom of their own self-worship and come to the forums to flaunt their experiences. It's going to happen. Sorry, it just is.

This is a really amazing thing we're doing guys, it's going to be exciting either which way and you're going to want to share it w/ everyone like ScienceGuy shared in the Coluracetam Forum.

[Q did it!]

The truth is, there is no way to keep this compound a secret... It's not really our secret to guard. Regardless of how things play out here, the compound will likely make its way to the masses: first for MDD, then for other disorders, and eventually for the enhancement of healthy individuals (the same way we use piracetam).

Those who are legitimately concerned and nervous about legal implications will calm down with time. We're not doing anything that hasn't been done before. We're not kidnapping a nun or killing scores of puppys. We're just pitching in to get an early sample of a compound that's on it's way to Phase-II trials and we're testing it on our lab rats . I personally think we should wait until the official completion of Phase-I before proceeding, but that's just me. It's also not too late to put together some sort of liability waiver if we feel that's necessary.

Those who are egotistical enough to want to keep it private to have an edge over others will eventually boil over in the boredom of their own self-worship and come to the forums to flaunt their experiences. It's going to happen. Sorry, it just is.

This is a really amazing thing we're doing guys, it's going to be exciting either which way and you're going to want to share it w/ everyone like ScienceGuy shared in the Coluracetam Forum.

Seconded a million times yes

Now on to... "How the Hell Are We Going to Test This?". Anyone got an MIR in their back room . But seriously how do we test for new neuronal growth in humans or can we rely on secondary effects as a result of new neurons being created? Cambridge Brain Sciences may help here a bit.

Edited by Q did it!, 21 May 2013 - 06:53 AM.