6219 replies to this topic

[Doktor]

I've been wondering something for a while reading this thread...

I keep seeing threads regarding these obscure chemicals/pharms, some of them with little to no documented safety data, and people seem really eager to purchase them anyway. Is it just me, or is this not pretty much the exact opposite of life extension?

I realize that a lot of these compounds are structural analogues of known chemicals, and we might even be able to anticipate some of their effects by analyzing the differences in molecular structure (a methyl group vs a flouro group for example)... but there still is a possibility that one of these chemicals could cause Alzheimers in 40 years, or maybe a rapid increase in brain cells leads to a brain tumor...

Finally, have you ever heard about the case of the frozen addicts? Basically, back around the 70s, this guy synthesized what he thought was an opioid drug called MPPP, but accidentally ended up with MPTP instead because of a very small error in his chemistry. Long story short, this drug MPTP completely destroyed the dopamine receptors of the people who ingested it, giving them severe chronic parkinsons. Knowledge of the disease was actually significantly advanced because of this, but it goes to show you that - even if the chemical proves to be totally safe - there is still no garauntee that the synthesis went 100% according to plan.

I guess all I am trying to say is be careful guys; I think it's really cool what you're all doing, but at the same time you have to admit, it is risky.

[h2o]

I've been wondering something for a while reading this thread...

I keep seeing threads regarding these obscure chemicals/pharms, some of them with little to no documented safety data, and people seem really eager to purchase them anyway. Is it just me, or is this not pretty much the exact opposite of life extension?

I realize that a lot of these compounds are structural analogues of known chemicals, and we might even be able to anticipate some of their effects by analyzing the differences in molecular structure (a methyl group vs a flouro group for example)... but there still is a possibility that one of these chemicals could cause Alzheimers in 40 years, or maybe a rapid increase in brain cells leads to a brain tumor...

I agree with you Doktor on many levels, and believe me, I have thought about safety concerns numerous times. I feel that some people on these forums should NOT being trying these drugs, especially otherwise high functioning people who want that extra cognitive kick.

However, regarding NSI-189 in particular, I keep thinking about those 35 healthy volunteers who took part in the 1a clinical trial for a drug never before tested on humans before. I wonder what could be such individuals’ main reason for such a risky undertaking especially if they have no condition to treat and are not getting compensated for their time. Either way, a controlled study on humans has been completed on NSI-189 and it was found practically side effect free which is very rare for an anti-depressant. Still, I still see your point in that a 7 day trial is not enough to predict long term effects of a drug.

As far these drugs potentially shortening one’s lifespan I would rather take drug XYZ and live a shorter but better quality of life, than live a long life plagued by depression and disability. I have had major chronic depression since my early teens and have tried various drugs and interventions that do little or make my condition worse. I have no doubt that if NSI-189 does indeed work at all, that it would help me not just because I have depression, but that I have depression with signs of hippocampal atrophy such as worsening memory and impaired spatial navigation. I am only in my 20s but I feel like I have memory problems people three times my age have due to major depression and ADD.

Even though it may be a while before I try NSI-189 because I am not in the group buy, at least I have a little hope that something out there may be able to help my condition. So in short, the more impaired a person is, the less there is to lose. High functioning people have a lot more at stake to gamble with.

[Metagene]

h2o the trial was 28 days.

[megatron]

Neuralstem stock up over 12% since the weekend. I hope everyone wanting to get the stock has got it already. I'm actually going to buy more.

Edited by Megatrone, 10 July 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[h2o]

h2o the trial was 28 days.

The 1a trial which was the very first trial ever conducted on humans was 7 days: http://clinicaltrial...=nsi-189&rank=2 but the 1b trial that is currently running is 28 days.

[daouda]

I keep thinking about those 35 healthy volunteers who took part in the 1a clinical trial for a drug never before tested on humans before. I wonder what could be such individuals’ main reason for such a risky undertaking especially if they have no condition to treat and are not getting compensated for their time.

I'm pretty sure that they ARE getting compensated for their time+risk taken...

[Reformed-Redan]

The recent gains are only regarding a positive note from Dr. Eva Feldman regarding preliminary results from ALS suffers. Just wait till preliminary results are in from the NSI-189 trial. If permanent synaptic facilitation/restoration can be achieved through NSI-189 in the hippocampus, then that is big news.

[Metagene]

h2o the trial was 28 days.

The 1a trial which was the very first trial ever conducted on humans was 7 days: http://clinicaltrial...=nsi-189&rank=2 but the 1b trial that is currently running is 28 days.

Thanks for the correction.

[Xenix]

Well, seeing as payment for shipping is now under way, I'd like to ask if postal tracking is included in the payment? I think it would be essential to include this, especially if there are any delays at customs.

If there is delays I am sure they will alert us, lets make this as hassle free as possible for the organizers.

I live in Australia, and the customs here are pretty strict. I would like to be able to check up on the package's postal progress for my own piece of mind. I'm willing to pay extra for the tracking so that the package isn't just "lost in transit" or delayed in customs for weeks.

This isn't some ordinary package, it could very well be the key to my own mental recovery, and is single the most significant focus in my life right now.

[daouda]

What do we know about the effect of temperature on this compound? The heat is pretty intense these days in southern france (routinely above 30celsius / 86 farenheit degrees every day)... SG will be shiping from the UK so it should get here pretty quickly, but I'm wondering if an ice pack wouldn't be necessary...

[Izan]

Well, seeing as payment for shipping is now under way, I'd like to ask if postal tracking is included in the payment? I think it would be essential to include this, especially if there are any delays at customs.

If there is delays I am sure they will alert us, lets make this as hassle free as possible for the organizers.

I live in Australia, and the customs here are pretty strict. I would like to be able to check up on the package's postal progress for my own piece of mind. I'm willing to pay extra for the tracking so that the package isn't just "lost in transit" or delayed in customs for weeks.

This isn't some ordinary package, it could very well be the key to my own mental recovery, and is single the most significant focus in my life right now.

i'm afraid they will confiscate your stash.

[Xenix]

Well, seeing as payment for shipping is now under way, I'd like to ask if postal tracking is included in the payment? I think it would be essential to include this, especially if there are any delays at customs.

If there is delays I am sure they will alert us, lets make this as hassle free as possible for the organizers.

I live in Australia, and the customs here are pretty strict. I would like to be able to check up on the package's postal progress for my own piece of mind. I'm willing to pay extra for the tracking so that the package isn't just "lost in transit" or delayed in customs for weeks.

This isn't some ordinary package, it could very well be the key to my own mental recovery, and is single the most significant focus in my life right now.

i'm afraid they will confiscate your stash.

*facepalm*

[sparkk51]

Does anyone have a recommendation for the scale I should order? I have never had one before and realize I need one for these substances.

[Reformed-Redan]

This or this should suffice for all your uses.

[Metagene]

Handle that thing like a new born baby.

[sparkk51]

Thanks yadayada

[typ3z3r0]

I know that it's really late, but there isn't any room on the group buy, is there?

[Major Legend]

I would not be surprised if NSI ended up doing "nothing at all" lol. I'm just in it for the overal endeavor of trying cutting edge science.

[Psionic]

"Do your best, prepare for the worst and expect nothing"

[Steve Zissou]

Well, seeing as payment for shipping is now under way, I'd like to ask if postal tracking is included in the payment? I think it would be essential to include this, especially if there are any delays at customs.

If there is delays I am sure they will alert us, lets make this as hassle free as possible for the organizers.

I live in Australia, and the customs here are pretty strict. I would like to be able to check up on the package's postal progress for my own piece of mind. I'm willing to pay extra for the tracking so that the package isn't just "lost in transit" or delayed in customs for weeks.

This isn't some ordinary package, it could very well be the key to my own mental recovery, and is single the most significant focus in my life right now.

i'm afraid they will confiscate your stash.

*facepalm*

Why the facepalm?

[Renegade]

It's been asked before, but does anyone know of any actions other than hippocampal volume increase and / or weather it stimulates neuroregeneration and growth in any other regions of the brain. A PFC regenerative compound for example, would be potentially phenomenal.

[h2o]

I would not be surprised if NSI ended up doing "nothing at all" lol. I'm just in it for the overal endeavor of trying cutting edge science.

People might not see results right away, but that doesn't mean that it's not effective. You would think neurogenesis takes time. This isn't piracetam here. This is regenerative medicine. The NeuralStem CEO has said hinted that future trials of NSI-189 will be 90 days where in his words there would "certainly" be hippocampal growth.

He starts talking about NSI-189 at around 17:40 and mentions the 90 day trial specifically at around 20:15 minutes in:

[Xenix]

I would not be surprised if NSI ended up doing "nothing at all" lol. I'm just in it for the overal endeavor of trying cutting edge science.

People might not see results right away, but that doesn't mean that it's not effective. You would think neurogenesis takes time. This isn't piracetam here. This is regenerative medicine. The NeuralStem CEO has said hinted that future trials of NSI-189 will be 90 days where in his words there would "certainly" be hippocampal growth.

He starts talking about NSI-189 at around 17:40 and mentions the 90 day trial specifically at around 20:15 minutes in:

This is probably my biggest concern; whether or not the amount from the group buy will be enough to gauge if it is an effective molecule.
I'd hate it if my supply ran out days before significant neurological changes were about to take place, and write it off as an ineffective substance.

But, if the changes are noticeable before then, and the molecule indeed proves to be effective, I'm sure I won't be the only one who will be wanting more - which will suck, too, because I'll have to wait another 2+ months to get the second batch (if I can at all). And what ScienceGuy will do with the remaining 100grams -- over 5 years worth of daily NSI-189 doses -- is anyone's guess.

[Steve Zissou]

It's been asked before, but does anyone know of any actions other than hippocampal volume increase and / or weather it stimulates neuroregeneration and growth in any other regions of the brain. A PFC regenerative compound for example, would be potentially phenomenal.

IIRC, the growth doesn't seem to just be limited to the hippocampus, but doesn't grow the rest that much. At least thats what I remember from earlier in the thread.

[Xenix]

This has probably already been covered, but I think it would be best if SG shipped the orders to everyone by labelling them as supplements - something innocent like "creatine" or "glutamine".

**

I wonder if hippocampal growth (in mice, at least) from NSI is limited to a ~20% increase, or if this is something that will increase even further from +28 days of consumption... if so, what would inhibit the hippocampus from growing further?

[DamnedOwl]

This has probably already been covered, but I think it would be best if SG shipped the orders to everyone by labelling them as supplements - something innocent like "creatine" or "glutamine".

I get your point, but it needs to be something believable considering the quantities that we're shipping.

It wouldn't be so unusual for a customs official to actually know what, for example, both creatine and glutamine actually are.

[ScienceGuy]

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

I literally only have a few seconds to post an update that I just received word from the lab that they are now completed with the synthesis and are ready to ship it to me, which they will be doing shortly

Sunshinefrost and Q Did It! - I will have to catch up with reading and replying to your PMs just as soon as I get another window of free time

Thanks again to everyone for their patience

[hadora]

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

I literally only have a few seconds to post an update that I just received word from the lab that they are now completed with the synthesis and are ready to ship it to me, which they will be doing shortly

Sunshinefrost and Q Did It! - I will have to catch up with reading and replying to your PMs just as soon as I get another window of free time

Thanks again to everyone for their patience

thanks S_G for the update
we were losing hope

[megatron]

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

I literally only have a few seconds to post an update that I just received word from the lab that they are now completed with the synthesis and are ready to ship it to me, which they will be doing shortly

Sunshinefrost and Q Did It! - I will have to catch up with reading and replying to your PMs just as soon as I get another window of free time

Thanks again to everyone for their patience

Hell yes! To know that the synthesis is done, and just a matter of shipping time remains, is relieving in it self and gives a motivational boost. Hopefully the European participants will receive it within two weeks

Edited by Megatrone, 17 July 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[Reformed-Redan]

UPDATE:

Hi everyone,

I literally only have a few seconds to post an update that I just received word from the lab that they are now completed with the synthesis and are ready to ship it to me, which they will be doing shortly

Sunshinefrost and Q Did It! - I will have to catch up with reading and replying to your PMs just as soon as I get another window of free time

Thanks again to everyone for their patience

Great. ScienceGuy could you please send the supplier for an update on ISRIB? Thanks. Seems he must be very busy.