6219 replies to this topic

[Posthuman]

Also I am thinking about getting critical care insurance just in case things go wrong.

Your doubts might be justified, but the substance is unlikely to cause unwanted secondary effects

[hani]

I'm almost certain there is a buildup effect with nsi. Neurogenesis can't happen that fast. How long doest it take with anti depressant before they work ?

I've been diagnosed with depression by a professional psychologist who had tested me for 8 hours straight. I knew I had it long before he tested me, which was about 1.5 years ago.

My life changed completely for the better as soon as I began taking Venlafaxine. With that, I am fairly confident that changes in the mood can occur within an hour after an antidepressant is taken for the first time.

That's the placebo effect. Most people won’t start experiencing the full positive effects of antidepressants until 6 to 8 weeks after beginning it:
http://psychcentral....to-work/0008529

Perhaps because many antidepressants increase human hippocampal neurogenesis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21483429

They need time before they induce enough neurogenesis that make a real effect on depressed people. For all we know, the serotonin theory of depression might be way off and it's the other things that ADs do that make it work for those suffering from depression.

[vlk]

Depression often has the physical effects of lower levels of various neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine, but also reduced neurogenesis. With chronic depression, there is often a measurable decrease in hippocampal volume.

Raising serotonin with a reuptake inhibitor (most commonly prescribed antidepressants) can make you feel better almost instantly (I have also experienced this personally) and if you feel better, then hippocampal atrophy is usually slowed or stopped. This is only a temporary solution though.

To actually "cure" depression with SSRIs, they must be taken for a long time and in high enough doses to cause serotonin toxicity, which increases the expression of BDNF and hence causes neurogenesis. Many people give up on SSRIs before they get to this stage because of all the unpleasant side effects.

I have not tried NSI-189 yet so I cannot comment on the instant effects, but theoretically it should be the best and safest method for actually curing chronic depression.

Edited by vlk, 20 August 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[cATsE]

Even so, you still have to find and do something about the root of the problem, which usually is stress and the inability to cope with it - meaning weak/burned out adrenals. And it can go even further, because the burden placed upon the adrenals may be caused by other psychical problems, like for instance in the digestive system, for example a severe case of SIBO. Most people think of stress as something that comes from 'outside' of us, like a bad relationship, work-pressure, war, abuse etc, but for the way the body reacts and the damage it causes, that doesn't necessary have to be the case.

So no matter how good NSI-189 might be at restoring the hippocampal, it's not per se a definitive cure in itself. That said, I can't wait to get my hands on the stuff.

Edited by cATsE, 20 August 2013 - 11:43 AM.

[vlk]

Even so, you still have to find and do something about the root of the problem, which usually is stress and the inability to cope with it - meaning weak/burned out adrenals. And it can go even further, because the burden placed upon the adrenals may be caused by other psychical problems, like for instance in the digestive system, for example a severe case of SIBO. Most people think of stress as something that comes from 'outside' of us, like a bad relationship, work-pressure, war, abuse etc, but for the way the body reacts and the damage it causes, that doesn't necessary have to be the case.

So no matter how good NSI-189 might be at restoring the hippocampal, it's not per se a definitive cure in itself. That said, I can't wait to get my hands on the stuff.

Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound like I was saying NSI-189 will cure all depression on it's own. I'm just really excited by it's method of action compared to current antidepressants.

"Cure" was probably the wrong word to use.
Perhaps I should have said that it (in theory) it has the potential to massively improve the quality of life of people with long term depression. As you rightly said it is not a "cure" on its own and there may be many other internal and external causes that need to be taken into account as well.


EDIT:
Also SSRIs are not all bad, when I first started taking a low dose of citalopram (an SSRI), I had a really positive mood, great motivation and even a large increase in libido. After a week or so though, I had a constant brain fog worse than before, always tired but unable to get to sleep and a complete loss of libido. This continued to get worse over the next few weeks. I had exactly the same response to sertraline(zoloft) when I tried that at a later date.

Edited by vlk, 20 August 2013 - 12:10 PM.

[sparkk51]

I'm almost certain there is a buildup effect with nsi. Neurogenesis can't happen that fast. How long doest it take with anti depressant before they work ?

I've been diagnosed with depression by a professional psychologist who had tested me for 8 hours straight. I knew I had it long before he tested me, which was about 1.5 years ago.

My life changed completely for the better as soon as I began taking Venlafaxine. With that, I am fairly confident that changes in the mood can occur within an hour after an antidepressant is taken for the first time.

That's the placebo effect. Most people won’t start experiencing the full positive effects of antidepressants until 6 to 8 weeks after beginning it:
http://psychcentral....to-work/0008529

Perhaps because many antidepressants increase human hippocampal neurogenesis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21483429

They need time before they induce enough neurogenesis that make a real effect on depressed people. For all we know, the serotonin theory of depression might be way off and it's the other things that ADs do that make it work for those suffering from depression.

No, I don't think it was placebo. In fact, I would say serotonin's function explains why increasing it helped me so immensely. Antidepressants seem to inhibit my obsessive thoughts, which prevented me from over thinking many things that ultimately led to my feeling of hopelessness.

Edited by sparkk51, 20 August 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[MizTen]

NSI — No Stress Inside
NSI — New Synapses Integrated
NSI — Nice Silky Infusion
NSI — New Synchronized Illumination

[zeroskater6979]

Any negative side-effects MizTen?

[stillwater]

It still seems pretty early to ask, but in the future could users please give a description of their sleep patterns while on this, sleep is often an important marker in mood/well being and psychological changes.

[MizTen]

Any negative side-effects MizTen?

Slight headache twice since starting. Not necessarily from NSI but likely, because I rarely get headaches. That is, so far the only possible negative.

I will start posting a more useful results log tomorrow. Honestly I can't come up with a valid reason to conceal results. Placebo can occur for new users regardless of current users' reports or lack thereof.

From what I've seen most of the lab rats here have a lot more valid self-awareness than they give themselves credit for. Thus their vulnerability to placebo is likely to be quite low, imo.

User experience reports may trigger placebo effect for some, but not most people around here.

[CognitionCoefficient]

For those watching this thread, it would be useful to see Dual N-Back performance changes.

Consider posting your results here (it's a judgement-free environment).

Edited by CognitionCoefficient, 20 August 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[MizTen]

People reporting positive effects: Do you anticipate that these effects will continue after you stop dosing, due to structural changes in the brain?

I have no idea. But it seems that a longer course (maybe 6-18 months) would have more efficacy for those who are trying to heal damaged brains. That would allow time to learn other therapeutic strategies, that combined with NSI, might be very helpful and prevent regression back into brain damaging habits of thought and lifestyle.

My goal is to take full advantage of any structural changes now, so the PTSD will never recur.

Never, ever recur. I did not realize how much the PTSD was sucking the joy and life out of me until I started NSI.

[Hebbeh]

My first day was very positive....felt in the groove and interactions with others seemed more positive then usual all day...felt very upbeat and it wasn't placebo. Since then, not so much. I've been getting the headaches also. And I feel a little dizzy for about 3 hours after dosing then the dizziness changes to spaceness. And if I go too long without redosing, I crash like coming down off a strong stimulant. This pattern has been consistent with a variety of doses and never more than 80 mg/day and I've more settled on 2x20mg. Not sure I can keep on top of work feeling like this.....seems to be getting worse than better.

[crusader]

does anybody know the shelf life of this compound?

[Sholrak]

Keep in mind guys, probably the positive effects will likely come after:

- 28 days of treatment as suggested by clinical trials.
- Many days, weeks, months? after the usage. Maybe NSI could give an acute effect non totally desirable and the later, after period is when you will see gains.


Patience.

[cyberger]

My first day was very positive....felt in the groove and interactions with others seemed more positive then usual all day...felt very upbeat and it wasn't placebo. Since then, not so much. I've been getting the headaches also. And I feel a little dizzy for about 3 hours after dosing then the dizziness changes to spaceness. And if I go too long without redosing, I crash like coming down off a strong stimulant. This pattern has been consistent with a variety of doses and never more than 80 mg/day and I've more settled on 2x20mg. Not sure I can keep on top of work feeling like this.....seems to be getting worse than better.

Would headaches/spaciness be indicating some type of deficiency? MizTen and Therein who have been getting good results are taking NSI-189 + Omega-3s + other supplements which could support new nerve growth. Are you on NSI-189 only?

Edited by cyberger, 20 August 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Hebbeh]

MizTen said she has been getting the headaches too and no I don't have any deficiencies. I eat very healthy and supplement the common popular supplements. Realize I'm certainly not the only one reporting headaches..it appears to be a common side.

Edited by Hebbeh, 20 August 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[vlk]

To anyone experiencing headaches while using NSI-189 - could you describe the feeling of the headaches?

For example:
Would you describe it as just a feeling of pressure or is it at all painful?
Is it localised to any part of the head?
Does it pulse at all or is it constant?
How long do they last on average?

[Posthuman]

Mine lasted 3 days, it was located on the left side, was bearable and pulsating.

[MizTen]

To anyone experiencing headaches while using NSI-189 - could you describe the feeling of the headaches?

For example:
Would you describe it as just a feeling of pressure or is it at all painful?
Is it localised to any part of the head?
Does it pulse at all or is it constant?
How long do they last on average?

I had 2 very mild pain+pressure headaches after starting NSI.
Localized towards the lower back of the crown.
Constant.
Each lasted about 2-3 hours.

The start of my NSI-189 trial happened to coincide with some very stressful unexpected events.

Chances are pretty high that the stress could have caused the headaches as much as the NSI did...

[paul]

My regime is to mix 100mg with either olive oil or cod liver oil in a syringe 2mls then take it nasally (no needle!!), 50mg in the morning, the rest throughout the day. The effect is much stronger then taken oral for me. I don't think lipid molecules are well absorbed in the gut, but i might be wrong on this one as its a small molecule. If take orally I would perhaps eat something fatty with it. Despite this, taken orally, the first place it visits is the liver (first pass metabolism) so some will be lost at this stage (unless it is metabolised in the kidneys but this is unlikely as any lipid (soluble in oil) molecule has got to be made hydrophilic (soluble in water) before it can be excreted in the kidneys.) There are other routes also, we just don't know and since the trial is sticking with oral its probably not a bad idea. Remember though that a pharmaceutical company does not care if it has a low bio-availability as long as some gets absorbed its still better and easier for them to make tablets and patients to take them. I have not read any papers on this molecule only details of the clinical trial methods but no finished reports so if anyone has any please post them up, I'm most interested in the pharmacokinetic data even if its from mice, cheers!

First 5 days I didn't feel that good either but things picked up after that. I have had no side effects from it apart from over stimulation when I once took 200mg in a day but I could still sleep, I am sleeping in general about 2 hours less a night although this has started to increase back to normal. When ever I take a dose I get a feeling in my head,almost stimulative but in a good way, its too hard to describe, this is how I know im taking the right dose and its doing something. Who know, placebo, withdrawals afterwards or perfection, I'm just pleased I've had no side effects, gives me faith in taking it.

[Hebbeh]

I'm 5 days into it. The headaches have have been random but usually have been getting a headache for at least several hours each day...some lasting longer up to 4-5 hours. I rarely get headaches. They are mild headaches but definitely feel headachey. The headache does have a feeling of pressure that encompasses the entire head but the pressure is most noticeable across the temples and behind the ears. I also have developed noticeably worse tinnitus.

[therein]

I am over two weeks into it and I have been experiencing the headaches too. I usually don't get headaches, and I am almost absolutely sure that it is NSI-189 that has been causing the headaches. No need to be alarmed, though.

As others described, they are very mild headaches, definitely bearable.

[NootropicEU]

I opted in to SECOND BUY but I guess it will take a while. Is it still possible to get some of this now?

[gnappi]

I'm 5 days into it. The headaches have have been random but usually have been getting a headache for at least several hours each day...some lasting longer up to 4-5 hours. I rarely get headaches. They are mild headaches but definitely feel headachey. The headache does have a feeling of pressure that encompasses the entire head but the pressure is most noticeable across the temples and behind the ears. I also have developed noticeably worse tinnitus.

Can this be due the "enlargement" of the hippocampus??? The pressure match exactly with the location of this structures!!! If so, it is a confirmation of the effectiveness of this drug.

[PWAIN]

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

[gnappi]

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

But feel pressure. Thus, this may be an indication of the growth of intracranial structures such as the hippocampus, for example. What strengthens the argument is the location of that pressure, which coincides with the hippocampus.

[Hebbeh]

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

um no. They are not outside the skull. That is ridiculous. It is true brain tissue itself does not have pain receptors but the nerves, arteries, veins, and other supporting structures do have pain receptors and those supporting structures within the brain are the source of headaches.

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

But feel pressure. Thus, this may be an indication of the growth of intracranial structures such as the hippocampus, for example. What strengthens the argument is the location of that pressure, which coincides with the hippocampus.

I was getting headaches by the second day. The brain can't possibly grow that fast. The headaches and feeling of pressure is not from growth. It's more like a mild nagging hangover.....but not quite.

Edited by Hebbeh, 21 August 2013 - 12:01 PM.

[gnappi]

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

um no. They are not outside the skull. That is ridiculous. It is true brain tissue itself does not have pain receptors but the nerves, arteries, veins, and other supporting structures do have pain receptors and those supporting structures within the brain are the source of headaches.

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

But feel pressure. Thus, this may be an indication of the growth of intracranial structures such as the hippocampus, for example. What strengthens the argument is the location of that pressure, which coincides with the hippocampus.

I was getting headaches by the second day. The brain can't possibly grow that fast. The headaches and feeling of pressure is not from growth. It's more like a mild nagging hangover.....but not quite.

The growth may begin with the increase of blood circulation at the site and a higher fluid retention in the tissue, for example. Only after the cells begin to multiply and differentiate.

[Hebbeh]

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

um no. They are not outside the skull. That is ridiculous. It is true brain tissue itself does not have pain receptors but the nerves, arteries, veins, and other supporting structures do have pain receptors and those supporting structures within the brain are the source of headaches.

Headaches are not in the brain, they are on the outside of the skull - usually in the muscle tissue. The brain does not feel pain.

But feel pressure. Thus, this may be an indication of the growth of intracranial structures such as the hippocampus, for example. What strengthens the argument is the location of that pressure, which coincides with the hippocampus.

I was getting headaches by the second day. The brain can't possibly grow that fast. The headaches and feeling of pressure is not from growth. It's more like a mild nagging hangover.....but not quite.

The growth may begin with the increase of blood circulation at the site and a higher fluid retention in the tissue, for example. Only after the cells begin to multiply and differentiate.

True. Actually probably the case. I was just thinking about the hangover analogy and the dilation of veins and arteries are the source of most hangover headache. I believe that could be the source of these headaches...dilation of arteries and veins...maybe.