6219 replies to this topic

[jefferson]

 in lieu of very expensive CoA testing, what I suggest you guys do is to message the guy who did the original tests on VLK's and Nyles' NSI-189. I won't give his name because he values his privacy, but you can find it if you do go back a few pages. If the "NSI-189" from Transhuman or whoever matches VLK, and Nyles, that would mean three different, independent labs happened to produce the same drug. Unless there is some wrong intermediary chemical that you get from a shared, common messup in the synthesis, this would seem to me to be better evidence than not it really is NSI-189. The chances of three different labs happening to make the same wrong drug, where multiple things could have gone wrong in the synthesis for each one, seems logically a little less likely than each of them succeeding towards their common goal.

[Gorthaur]

 

neuroatypicow, why are you getting your knickers in such a twist? Just ask about testing before ordering if that is important to you. If you are still not sure then pay for testing yourself.
As for selling as research chemicals - what do you really care? This is how these outfits try to cover their arses. You're not going to get any guarantee with this sort of thing - best guarantee is reputation.
Anyway if it really bothers you, you can always set up your own business and test everything and sell as pharma grade and hope like hell that the fda doesn't come after you.

 

I agree with most of what you said.  

 

However, when I purchase a product in any business transaction, I expect to receive what is advertised.  I believe this is a reasonable expectation.  I understand that there are times where I will be screwed over.  That does not mean I will simply roll over and say "oh well."  

 

None of these companies are selling "alleged NSI-189"  If that was the case, then it would be up to me to decide if it was worth the risk.  They are selling NSI-189 and I expect to receive NSI-189.  If I don't, I will certainly do what I can to be reimbursed and spread the word about their shoddy business tactics.   That is how those reputations are established. 

 

 

What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? Taste, color, consistency, and density are superficial - they aren't reliable ways to identify a compound that could be synthesized and purified in any number of ways. You have no hard evidence that you received something other than what you ordered. It's not fair to slander these guys because they can't produce extremely expensive test results.
 

[themadscientist]

What you are describing is exactly what I received from HengHeDa, texture, taste, and all.

[pinnacle]

I took a plunge and ordered from bioscience nutraceuticals, will report back when it arrives (usually takes a week or two where I am). Have a mate doing his Ph.D in medicinal chemistry who may be able to test it if I can convince him

[noot_in_the_sky]

I took a plunge and ordered from bioscience nutraceuticals, will report back when it arrives (usually takes a week or two where I am). Have a mate doing his Ph.D in medicinal chemistry who may be able to test it if I can convince him

 

You may want to start convincing your friend, because last thing I heard from this company was that they were selling bad pyritinol, and a guy got  severely sick.

 

Here is the link so you can read what happen:

http://www.reddit.co...esults_warning/

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 26 June 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[pinnacle]

I am aware of that incident. I did, however, only have positive experiences using them in the past. So here's hoping they've picked their act up since that mishap which put them in the spotlight. We shall see...

[tolerant]

I took some HengHeDa NSI freebase yesterday for the first time. This was my first time taking any form of NSI. While it has no smell, it did have somewhat of a bad taste, but not enough to prevent me from taking it sublingually. I took 10 mg initially followed by 30 mg a couple of hours later. I did not have an adverse reaction, but after the first 10 mg I could tell that my depression/anxiety is actually getting worse and it also made me sleepy. I took another 30 mg just for the heck of it, thinking that I would just sleep through the bad effects, but the effects still persist today (increased depression/anxiety and excessive sleepiness), although it doesn't feel they will be permanent - I will just ride out these few days and return to baseline. I did experience some numbing of the tip of my tongue. I did take the NSI together with Coluracetam, which I was also taking for the first time, because the packages arrived on the same day. I wouldn't read too much into these results, because taking two supplements into which I had placed much hope would usually increase my anxiety anyway, unless the supplements worked extremely well from the word go. But I would mention that someone made a valid point about the bioavailability of NSI. We don't know how low the oral vs subglingual bioavailability of the phosphate stuff used in the trials is, and neither do we know this information for the freebase stuff. So maybe it was too much of a starting dose for me.

Edited by tolerant, 26 June 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[tolerant]

No one in this thread has presented any hard evidence that any of these suppliers are shipping out fake NSI-189. It's almost unheard of for any nootropics vendor to ship out fake products, since they will quickly be blacklisted, and the same goes for the supplier labs. If you need multiple independent analyses to satisfy your doubts, wait for FDA approval (if it ever comes), and buy this compound from a pharmacy. All research chemical vendors label their products "not for human consumption" - that's just a part of being in the grey market, and that's how it's always been.

It's not really a grey market. It's a black market. Someone has already mentioned that if the supplier has reasonable grounds to believe that the end user will use the product so as to infringe the patent (i.e. by consuming it), the supply itself amounts to infringement. It's certainly the law here in Australia and I'm so certain that most civilized jurisdictions have the same provisions that I am too lazy to even research if this is really so. The "use for research" disclaimer the vendors use amounts to nothing. It's a joke. So Neuralstem could demand an account of profits and an injunction against all these vendors. But for whatever reason they do not consider it in their interests to do so at this stage. And the vendors have nothing to fear, really, because breaking a patent is not a crime. All they could be up against is paying the profits they made from sales or having to pay the financial loss caused to Neuralstem by them making available the product. If I was a vendor I wouldn't be too worried about the former and the latter is probably too hard to prove and quantify at this stage, hence no litigation.

But let me emphasise that it is still not in the interests of the people for whom the substance is working/will work before it becomes commercially available for this community to threaten to report vendors to Neuralstem. The vendors will just stop selling the product (after all, it's usually one of at least a dozen products they sell) or move their business to the really black market. This is not in the interest of anyone who has benefited or has placed hope in this drug.

Edited by tolerant, 26 June 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Apparently this site also has NSI-189: teamtlr.com

 

Has anyone previous purchase from them?

[nightwolfz]

I took a plunge and ordered from bioscience nutraceuticals, will report back when it arrives (usually takes a week or two where I am). Have a mate doing his Ph.D in medicinal chemistry who may be able to test it if I can convince him

 

I'll be waiting patiently for your report

 

Please post something when it arrives

[neuroatypicow]

the reason my 'knickers are in a twist' as you so charmingly observed, is because i am really frustrated, because i WANT the products to be genuine, i really do - because i want them to WORK. i'm on conventional psyche meds for intractable depression, anxiety, and the cognitive impairments that go along with that, and they are barely a band-aid for all their effectiveness. i'm reacting to my having read many doubts about the authenticity of these compounds expressed in both of these NSI threads and the 7,8 DHF thread over yonder.

i have both compounds, are taking them, and hope they work, and are thus genuine. i want to be able to count on these vendors to provide what big pharma is too stubbornly reticent to provide.

i just wish there was a better system of checks and balances in place; 'reputation' really isn't sufficient.

[lourdaud]

I took some HengHeDa NSI freebase yesterday for the first time. This was my first time taking any form of NSI. While it has no smell, it did have somewhat of a bad taste, but not enough to prevent me from taking it sublingually. I took 10 mg initially followed by 30 mg a couple of hours later. I did not have an adverse reaction, but after the first 10 mg I could tell that my depression/anxiety is actually getting worse and it also made me sleepy. I took another 30 mg just for the heck of it, thinking that I would just sleep through the bad effects, but the effects still persist today (increased depression/anxiety and excessive sleepiness), although it doesn't feel they will be permanent - I will just ride out these few days and return to baseline. I did experience some numbing of the tip of my tongue. I did take the NSI together with Coluracetam, which I was also taking for the first time, because the packages arrived on the same day. I wouldn't read too much into these results, because taking two supplements into which I had placed much hope would usually increase my anxiety anyway, unless the supplements worked extremely well from the word go. But I would mention that someone made a valid point about the bioavailability of NSI. We don't know how low the oral vs subglingual bioavailability of the phosphate stuff used in the trials is, and neither do we know this information for the freebase stuff. So maybe it was too much of a starting dose for me.

 

Coluracetam is one of the most depressive substances I've tried, I get thrown into a deep black hole every time I try it.

[foreseason]

Taste, color, consistency, and density are superficial - they aren't reliable ways to identify a compound that could be synthesized and purified in any number of ways.
 

 

So you're saying that multiple substances can be legitimate NSI-189, yet have drastically different tastes?  I'm asking seriously, because I am certainly no chemistry expert.  I just figured when you're dealing with pure substances (no fillers or other "ingredients") that they should all taste pretty much the same.  For one to taste strong and bitter, and the other to have basically no taste at all seems odd. 

[Guacamolium]

In fairness they were quite open when you enquired about testing and offered you a FULL REFUND. Can't see how much more they can do. They are likely a very small outfit and cost of testing would probably make it too expensive and uncompetative. Perhaps they are using a supplier that they feel they can trust (Ceretropics old stock?). That doesn't mean that you have to trust them, just that they feel they are selling something legit. It's not a perfect situation but then again, considering what is being sold, a few risks are worth it. Hopefully with more competition, the situation may improve.

 

By all means, catch them out if you can but without testing, your accusations carry as much weight as their claims of it being what they say it is.

 

They aren't using our old stock. No company is using our stock of NSI-189. Our letter from Neuralstem expressly covers that part. We'd like to do something with it, but oh well. Easy come easy go.

[Gorthaur]

 

Taste, color, consistency, and density are superficial - they aren't reliable ways to identify a compound that could be synthesized and purified in any number of ways.
 

 

So you're saying that multiple substances can be legitimate NSI-189, yet have drastically different tastes?  I'm asking seriously, because I am certainly no chemistry expert.  I just figured when you're dealing with pure substances (no fillers or other "ingredients") that they should all taste pretty much the same.  For one to taste strong and bitter, and the other to have basically no taste at all seems odd. 

 

 

Yes, they could have different tastes, partly because of purification issues, and partly because of the synthesis itself. It gets exponentially more expensive to purify a compound after synthesis. So while it might cost $100 to get to 90% purity, it could then cost $1000 to get to 99% purity, and $10,000 to get to 99.9% purity. Not even big pharma can produce 100% pure compounds. These Chinese labs operate on lower standards, and it's not uncommon to see an unusual compound testing at 80% purity. In addition, there are any number of ways to synthesize NSI-189, which would call for different precursors, reagents, and solvents, all of which could dramatically effect the taste, color, and consistency of the slightly impure finished product. And finally, we could be dealing with different salts of the compound, like the hydrochloride, hydrobromide, or phosphate forms. None of these procedures are standardized yet.
 

[Nattzor]

 http://bionapcfa.blo...ed-to-know.html - A writeup about the results and the company from a financial perspective. Updated article.

[SearchingForAnswers]

Well, its interesting that they left out the MRI data; perhaps there was no hippocampal growth in humans.

But I hope so. Started my first does today.

[swolo]

Here are drspaceman's results from testing the Wuhan Hengheda Pharm co (via alibaba) NSI-189 I sent him. Melt point was 85 °C. These data match another user's NSI-189 sample sent to him, but do not match VLK or nyles7 product. It could be the salt instead of the phosphate. VLK's NSI-189 was much stronger tasting and more numbing to me, but both produce similar head pressure effect.

[foreseason]

 

Yes, they could have different tastes, partly because of purification issues, and partly because of the synthesis itself. It gets exponentially more expensive to purify a compound after synthesis. So while it might cost $100 to get to 90% purity, it could then cost $1000 to get to 99% purity, and $10,000 to get to 99.9% purity. Not even big pharma can produce 100% pure compounds. These Chinese labs operate on lower standards, and it's not uncommon to see an unusual compound testing at 80% purity. In addition, there are any number of ways to synthesize NSI-189, which would call for different precursors, reagents, and solvents, all of which could dramatically effect the taste, color, and consistency of the slightly impure finished product. And finally, we could be dealing with different salts of the compound, like the hydrochloride, hydrobromide, or phosphate forms. None of these procedures are standardized yet.
 

 

 

Well according to the data they emailed me, nutraction's NSI-189 is 99.47% purity

 

Maybe I jumped the gun criticizing their product.  I was just basing it on the fact that up until now every verified NSI-189 batch has been said to have a very bitter taste.  Nyles7's is bitter and Transhuman technologies is as well.  So when there was almost no taste at all to their product I became suspicious.

 

I do appreciate that they offered a refund.  However, I'm a bit surprised they didn't make more of an effort to defend the product.  THT made a strong attempt to convince me that they were a legitimate business selling only high quality products.  They could have been blowing smoke, but I found it at least somewhat convincing. 

[blood]

Our letter from Neuralstem expressly covers that part

 

What letter from Neuralstem?

[Nattzor]

 

Our letter from Neuralstem expressly covers that part

 

What letter from Neuralstem?

 

 

They (the company) got a letter from Neuralstem saying "If you'll continue to sell it we'll hire assassins to kill you" (or maybe sue them, you decide).

[Spinlock]

If there's a big taste difference I'd trust my taste buds over a piece of paper with a companies supposed lab results. I have gotten a batch of Sulbutiamine from hsw that I am 100% sure was dimethylglycine. When I complained they sent me purity certificates. However, I did have real Sulbutiamine to compare the taste and solubility too and they weren't close. Taste between batches should be very similar unless a filler with a strong taste was added to one batch and not the other.

[tolerant]

How are people administering their nsi? making your own capsules or dissolving in water, empty or full stomach? thanks.

 

I want to bump this post. Does anybody know of any solution in which NSI (both freebase and phosphate) is both dissolvable and stable?

[cap3]

I started taking NSI 189 

 

Yesterday I took 20mg twice orally 40mg total. today I have taken 80mg divided into 2 x 40mg dosages and may take another 40mg before bed.

 

I tried sublingually but the taste is really bad and it seems to take ages to disolve. 

 

I have not experienced anything as yet, no headaches, nothing. reading previous posts it seems most people it works for experience some positives right from the start.

 

Is that the case or have some people experienced nothing to begin with then had the benefits come later? How long does it normally take to start working?

[chemicalambrosia]

For clarity in this thread, I think going forward anyone posting reports should mention if the NSI-189 they have is not from the Scienceguy group buy, VLK group buy, or from Nyle's. Please don't post the source if it is a current once since it will make it more likely to get shut down(people can ask via PM if they want). 

 

There are a lot of unverified sources, with people even obtaining supposed NSI from random alibaba sources at this point(not recommended at all, IMO). It is quite likely some of, if not much of, what people are taking from new sources isn't even NSI-189 at this point. Not to be a downer, but all of these reports are going to confound everything for people trying to get a general sense of NSI reports, as if a bunch of anecdotal reports aren't confounding enough. Please, for the sake of the thread, take the time to mention if you got it from an original, trusted source or from a newer source. Thank you, I'm sure everyone will appreciate this.

[cap3]

For clarity in this thread, I think going forward anyone posting reports should mention if the NSI-189 they have is not from the Scienceguy group buy, VLK group buy, or from Nyle's. Please don't post the source if it is a current once since it will make it more likely to get shut down(people can ask via PM if they want).

 

There are a lot of unverified sources, with people even obtaining supposed NSI from random alibaba sources at this point(not recommended at all, IMO). It is quite likely some of, if not much of, what people are taking from new sources isn't even NSI-189 at this point. Not to be a downer, but all of these reports are going to confound everything for people trying to get a general sense of NSI reports, as if a bunch of anecdotal reports aren't confounding enough. Please, for the sake of the thread, take the time to mention if you got it from an original, trusted source or from a newer source. Thank you, I'm sure everyone will appreciate this.

 

To clarify mine came from an original trusted source

[shantaram]

Is there anyone who takes nsi intranasally and can report if it increases its effects?

[ovecta]

Is there anyone who takes nsi intranasally and can report if it increases its effects?

Yes, once in its phosphate form at 30mg...big mistake as it was one of the most painful experiences my nose has ever witnessed perhaps less painful than breaking it, but still it was a burning sensation unlike any other, what I imagine chili powder via the intranasal route must feel like, so I strongly advise against this...Also given the lack of safety information regarding this drug I was very stupid of me to do so.

 

However I did notice a drastic increase in head pressure some hours later much more pronounced than that of oral but not uncomfortably intense, other than that I can't discern the effects from oral administration so I advise you to stick to the painless oral route    

[8bitmore]

[please delete, didn't read OP's message before posting]

Edited by 8bitmore, 29 June 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[DaneV]

I`m 7 days on NSI-189 from a source that seems to be trusted and i`m not noticing much yet. No profound effects, no side effects either. Maybe some mild mood balancing effects but it`s hard to tell. I think my initial effects were indeed placebo because retrospectively, the response I got was similair to other "placebo experiences" I had before.

 

Impatient as I am, I decided to raise my dosage from 40mg QD to 40mg BID without acute (side)effects. I hope I will start to feel anything soon. Most people here report effects after a week or so, but is there anyone who did respond to NSI-189, but for who it took longer to feel anything?

 

P.S. I would also advice against using this stuff intranasally. When I used it sublingual I even felt some discomfort somewhat resembling the sensation of eating pepper, so I can imagine it will not be a nice experience to snort this stuff. I personally just cap it in advance and take it orally.  This also adds the benefit of not feeling like a junkie every day, weighing white powder with my precision scale 

Edited by DaneV, 29 June 2014 - 08:49 PM.