6219 replies to this topic

[FeelsNumbMan]

I agree with what brucebanner said about thread organization. This thread is currently 86 pages long, and there's a whole lot of stuff we have to scroll through if we were to find what information we're looking for. Having a separate thread for experiences and questions regarding ones' experience would make it a lot lot easier.

 

It's also somewhat a nuisance to search through someone's previous posts about their experiences. If we were able to just see all of a user's posts in a single thread, it'd be a lot easier to ask them something without making them repeat themselves.

Edited by FeelsNumbMan, 20 August 2014 - 09:08 PM.

[Flex]

I agree with what brucebanner said about thread organization. This thread is currently 86 pages long, and there's a whole lot of stuff we have to scroll through if we were to find what information we're looking for. Having a separate thread for experiences and questions regarding ones' experience would make it a lot lot easier.

 

It's also somewhat a nuisance to search through someone's previous posts about their experiences. If we were able to just see all of a user's posts in a single thread, it'd be a lot easier to ask them something without making them repeat themselves.

 

Yeah, I hate it too.

This pattern is just good for chatting and nothing else.

 

IIRC There is a thread which scrambles suggestions for a compound database, or something like that.

So, if the Guy´s are open to that, they should be open to new suggestions like Yours as well.

 

On the one hand, We could ask them about this "search-user" option.

On the other hand We or I can start a suggestion thread and gather additional ideas.

What do You think ?

Edited by Flex, 20 August 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[world33]

 

 

Interesting article indeed. So COMT Val158Met, BDNF Val66Met, 5-HTTLPR are genetic variants that, at this stage of knowledge and research, are considered to facilitate hippocampus shrinking in individuals that experience serious stressful life events (deaths in the family, divorce, unemployment, financial losses, relocations, serious illnesses or accidents). In particular only when all three variants are present stressful life events could lead to hippocampus shrinking where "People with only one or even none of the risk genes, on the other hand, had an enlarged hippocampus with similar life events". This confirms the genetic component of depression which usually runs in families.

I wonder whether 23andme.com tests for those specific genes (I doubt it) or you need specific genetic testing.
 
NSI-189 can potentially reverse hippocampus shrinking if Neuralstem Inc. claims will be validated.
 
I also wonder what substances and treatment can help prevent hippocampus shrinking in the first place when a serious stressful life event occur in high risk individuals who carry the above genetic variants.
I am thinking of beta blockers (i.e. propranolol) to counteract high adrenalin levels, phosphatidylserine/Vitamin C etc. to counteract high cortisol levels or GABA enhancers/agonists (such as valium or other benzos) to replenish/mantain GABA levels.
Does anyone know which hormones are released (possibly in high levels) and/or neurotransmitters depleted during serious stressful life events that might have a negative impact in the hippocampus size? Any good resource on physiology and neurobiology of stressful life events?

 

 

http://i.gyazo.com/6...0ed5d778c77.png

http://i.imgur.com/DPHXGVL.png

 

You got to be a bit more exact and tell me the rs-number if you want me to look further.

 

 

Not sure about the rs-number. The article does not mention them. Where did you get the interesting information from the fist png pic? Is it accessible to the public? I want to research which genes at this stage could be possibly associated with anxiety for example and be tested for them.
 

[tolerant]

I'll repost my message in relation to HengHeDa from the private discussion group, because HengHeDa has always been discussed here openly. And I believe this information should be made available for the benefit of everybody:

 

I have received the final results of the 13C scan utilising 500 mg of HengHeDa product. I have uploaded it to here: http://www.filedropper.com/13c

The final verdict from the NMR expert is as follows: "We cannot detect any impurities.  They may be present in amounts too small to detect by NMR, so cannot be fully ruled out.  But the NMR results show signals only from your compound."

As previously mentioned, I've invested $200 in this analysis (I'll post the invoice when it arrives) and I didn't count on any contributions from fellow members or expect that my costs will be recouped. However, if you genuinely find this information useful and are willing and can afford to contribute small amounts of $5-$20 (as some people have already done), my PayPal address is nicety.log@gmail.com.

 

I should also say, because this issue came up in the private discussion group, that while there is suspicion that other vendors may be just reselling product bought from HengHeDa or similar Chinese suppliers, the point of ordering from HengHeDa directly is that they sell it (following negotiation) for as little as $10 per gram (if you order 50 grams) or $20 per gram (if you order 10 grams). Thanks to world33 for providing this pricing information.

 

Edit: typos

Edited by tolerant, 21 August 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[Nattzor]

 

 

Not sure about the rs-number. The article does not mention them. Where did you get the interesting information from the fist png pic? Is it accessible to the public? I want to research which genes at this stage could be possibly associated with anxiety for example and be tested for them.
 

 

 

Promethease, think they might have a "try out" so you can check, not sure.
 

[malden]

Strange side noticed here.

 

jaw pressure,and more muscle tension and more addictive seeking behaviour than normal.  ) and i mean daily life addictions like bad food coffee, behaviour,ect.

 

i feel more calm without it

 

but i will run another test over a week or so.

[world33]

I'll repost my message in relation to HengHeDa from the private discussion group, because HengHeDa has always been discussed here openly. And I believe this information should be made available for the benefit of everybody:
 
I have received the final results of the 13C scan utilising 500 mg of HengHeDa product. I have uploaded it to here: http://www.filedropper.com/13c

The final verdict from the NMR expert is as follows: "We cannot detect any impurities.  They may be present in amounts too small to detect by NMR, so cannot be fully ruled out.  But the NMR results show signals only from your compound."

As previously mentioned, I've invested $200 in this analysis (I'll post the invoice when it arrives) and I didn't count on any contributions from fellow members or expect that my costs will be recouped. However, if you genuinely find this information useful and are willing and can afford to contribute small amounts of $5-$20 (as some people have already done), my PayPal address is nicety.log@gmail.com.
 
I should also say, because this issue came up in the private discussion group, that while there is suspicion that other vendors may be just reselling product bought from HengHeDa or similar Chinese suppliers, the point of ordering from HengHeDa directly is that they sell it (following negotiation) for as little as $10 per gram (if you order 50 grams) or $20 per gram (if you order 10 grams). Thanks to world33 for providing this pricing information.
 
Edit: typos

So the result is that HengHeDa freebase NSI-189 is the right compound and does not include any detectable impurities. Is that right?
I sent you some money to recover part of your cost. Hopefully someone else will join in especially if they dealt or will deal with HengHeDa.
Thank you for taking the time to carry out this. Very useful!

[penisbreath]

 

 

Today I've only taken a 20mg oral veg. capsule despite what the study says. Again, I noticed a lot of anxiety. What's up with this thing?!

 

 

 

 

Are you taking the freebase or phosphate?

[tolerant]

 

I'll repost my message in relation to HengHeDa from the private discussion group, because HengHeDa has always been discussed here openly. And I believe this information should be made available for the benefit of everybody:
 
I have received the final results of the 13C scan utilising 500 mg of HengHeDa product. I have uploaded it to here: http://www.filedropper.com/13c

The final verdict from the NMR expert is as follows: "We cannot detect any impurities.  They may be present in amounts too small to detect by NMR, so cannot be fully ruled out.  But the NMR results show signals only from your compound."

As previously mentioned, I've invested $200 in this analysis (I'll post the invoice when it arrives) and I didn't count on any contributions from fellow members or expect that my costs will be recouped. However, if you genuinely find this information useful and are willing and can afford to contribute small amounts of $5-$20 (as some people have already done), my PayPal address is nicety.log@gmail.com.
 
I should also say, because this issue came up in the private discussion group, that while there is suspicion that other vendors may be just reselling product bought from HengHeDa or similar Chinese suppliers, the point of ordering from HengHeDa directly is that they sell it (following negotiation) for as little as $10 per gram (if you order 50 grams) or $20 per gram (if you order 10 grams). Thanks to world33 for providing this pricing information.
 
Edit: typos

So the result is that HengHeDa freebase NSI-189 is the right compound and does not include any detectable impurities. Is that right?
I sent you some money to recover part of your cost. Hopefully someone else will join in especially if they dealt or will deal with HengHeDa.
Thank you for taking the time to carry out this. Very useful!

 

 

Yes, that seems to be the verdict. Thanks for contributing and for sending me the HengHeDa product in the first place. However, there is a caveat in that while there were no detectable impurities using NMR spectroscopy, they could be there in quantities that are to small to detect. If we want a percentage figure of purity, HPLC testing would have to be done. I've asked the lab to find out whether they can do it in-house or refer me to another facility, how much it would cost, etc. Honestly, I don't quite understand what the real difference is between something that's 97% pure and something that's 98% or even 99% pure. Vendors list the purity percentage and try to differentiate themselves based on what appear to me small differences in purity. I mean, obviously if the impurity is toxic, then it would matter. But as you correspondence with a Sydney-based university lab said, the actual nature of the impurity is not something that is easily established. If it is so small that it's undetectable by powerful industrial 13C NMR using 0.5 g sample, then uncovering it would mean that NMR would need to run for days and then the scientists will have to spend a number of days deciphering it. That is my understanding of the situation. I am ready and willing to be corrected.

[world33]

Interesting article indeed. So COMT Val158Met, BDNF Val66Met, 5-HTTLPR are genetic variants that, at this stage of knowledge and research, are considered to facilitate hippocampus shrinking in individuals that experience serious stressful life events (deaths in the family, divorce, unemployment, financial losses, relocations, serious illnesses or accidents). In particular only when all three variants are present stressful life events could lead to hippocampus shrinking where "People with only one or even none of the risk genes, on the other hand, had an enlarged hippocampus with similar life events". This confirms the genetic component of depression which usually runs in families.

I wonder whether 23andme.com tests for those specific genes (I doubt it) or you need specific genetic testing.
 
NSI-189 can potentially reverse hippocampus shrinking if Neuralstem Inc. claims will be validated.
 
I also wonder what substances and treatment can help prevent hippocampus shrinking in the first place when a serious stressful life event occur in high risk individuals who carry the above genetic variants.
I am thinking of beta blockers (i.e. propranolol) to counteract high adrenalin levels, phosphatidylserine/Vitamin C etc. to counteract high cortisol levels or GABA enhancers/agonists (such as valium or other benzos) to replenish/mantain GABA levels.
Does anyone know which hormones are released (possibly in high levels) and/or neurotransmitters depleted during serious stressful life events that might have a negative impact in the hippocampus size? Any good resource on physiology and neurobiology of stressful life events?

 
http://i.gyazo.com/6...0ed5d778c77.png
http://i.imgur.com/DPHXGVL.png
 
You got to be a bit more exact and tell me the rs-number if you want me to look further.

Please check the full study at http://www.jneurosci...7.full.pdf html for specific alleles
Val158Met=rs4680
Val66Met=Rs6265
Source: wikipedia

[stillwater]

I had to quit my NSI trial at the 14 day mark, the extreme anxiety never stopped, even after going the oral route and reducing my dosage down to 15 mg a day. In fact I was feeling quite strange....dissociative, anxious, emotional, all somehow rolled into one,  to the point that I didn't leave my place for a few days. After quitting it took 3-4 days for me to feel baseline normal again.

 

I'm pretty disappointed as I had high hopes for this one. I've noticed others have posted somewhat similar experiences and hope it wasn't due to a faulty common batch we all were on ??  I doubt it though, I'm a bad responder to most everything, haha.

 

[Virtual Wolf]

I had to quit my NSI trial at the 14 day mark, the extreme anxiety never stopped, even after going the oral route and reducing my dosage down to 15 mg a day. In fact I was feeling quite strange....dissociative, anxious, emotional, all somehow rolled into one,  to the point that I didn't leave my place for a few days. After quitting it took 3-4 days for me to feel baseline normal again.

 

I'm pretty disappointed as I had high hopes for this one. I've noticed others have posted somewhat similar experiences and hope it wasn't due to a faulty common batch we all were on ??  I doubt it though, I'm a bad responder to most everything, haha.

 

I had the exact same experience the first time I went through my trial which lasted around 16 days.  I waited a week to completely return to baseline (I felt i was back to normal after 3 days) and then took one 40mg dose randomly, I found this had profound effects so i decided to continue another trial of 2 weeks which I'm currently on my third week.

 

I can safely say that its completely different from my first trial and I think its worth you taking the week off and then trying the 40mg dose by itself.

 

I have a question that you don't have to answer, do you have a previous experience of psychedelic use?

[stillwater]

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

[Virtual Wolf]

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

 

I did get quite nervous at the thought of taking it again but at the same time i knew a 40mg dose wouldn't last that long and I really had nothing to lose.  The anxiety is still there for me but it seems to be lowering very very slowly,

 

As for the results, I'm able to think about thoughts/emotions/feelings in a more rational way and I think overall this is going to have a benefit to me long term.  After the two week period i did drop down to 20mg twice daily, I've got about 2 grams left so I'll finish this off and post results when its done!

 

Personally I've got no idea about the choline reaction, I'm not taking any supplements with this trial.

 

The reason I asked about psychedelics is I compared the feeling i occasionally got on NSI-189 to the come up/come down to the likes of LSD, which...was uncomfortable on occasions.  The whole depersonalization/derealization scenario and I'm just wondering if there was a link between psychedelic usage and people feeling that way while using NSI-189.

Edited by Virtual Wolf, 24 August 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[Rior]

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

Stillwater,

 

Do you happen to know if you're using the freebase or phosphate form?

[stillwater]

 

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

 

I did get quite nervous at the thought of taking it again but at the same time i knew a 40mg dose wouldn't last that long and I really had nothing to lose.  The anxiety is still there for me but it seems to be lowering very very slowly,

 

As for the results, I'm able to think about thoughts/emotions/feelings in a more rational way and I think overall this is going to have a benefit to me long term.  After the two week period i did drop down to 20mg twice daily, I've got about 2 grams left so I'll finish this off and post results when its done!

 

Personally I've got no idea about the choline reaction, I'm not taking any supplements with this trial.

 

The reason I asked about psychedelics is I compared the feeling i occasionally got on NSI-189 to the come up/come down to the likes of LSD, which...was uncomfortable on occasions.  The whole depersonalization/derealization scenario and I'm just wondering if there was a link between psychedelic usage and people feeling that way while using NSI-189.

 

 

Ok, I look forward to hearing your results on this.  I'm not taking any choline but just meant that the feeling NSI gives me is very similar to me taking some kind of choline derivative and subsequently feeling depressed, anxious and full of dread. Which makes me wonder if it's working on similar pathways.  

 

I get what you're saying about psychedelic use, the de-personalization etc..  I can handle that for a few hours under the influence of hallucinogens, but for weeks straight would make me go insane. Which to be honest I was starting to feel like under NSI before I quit.  I guess I'm too sensitive to it or something, I really hope it's not a bad batch or anything.

 

Edited by stillwater, 24 August 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[stillwater]

 

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

Stillwater,

 

Do you happen to know if you're using the freebase or phosphate form?

 

 

I'm definitely using the phosphate form.

[Gorthaur]

 

I had to quit my NSI trial at the 14 day mark, the extreme anxiety never stopped, even after going the oral route and reducing my dosage down to 15 mg a day. In fact I was feeling quite strange....dissociative, anxious, emotional, all somehow rolled into one,  to the point that I didn't leave my place for a few days. After quitting it took 3-4 days for me to feel baseline normal again.

 

I'm pretty disappointed as I had high hopes for this one. I've noticed others have posted somewhat similar experiences and hope it wasn't due to a faulty common batch we all were on ??  I doubt it though, I'm a bad responder to most everything, haha.

 

I had the exact same experience the first time I went through my trial which lasted around 16 days.  I waited a week to completely return to baseline (I felt i was back to normal after 3 days) and then took one 40mg dose randomly, I found this had profound effects so i decided to continue another trial of 2 weeks which I'm currently on my third week.

 

I can safely say that its completely different from my first trial and I think its worth you taking the week off and then trying the 40mg dose by itself.

 

I have a question that you don't have to answer, do you have a previous experience of psychedelic use?

 

 

I am also about two weeks in, and I'm experiencing some terrible anxiety. I think I might give this a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

PS. I am also very familiar with psychedelics.
 

[Virtual Wolf]

 

 

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

 

I did get quite nervous at the thought of taking it again but at the same time i knew a 40mg dose wouldn't last that long and I really had nothing to lose.  The anxiety is still there for me but it seems to be lowering very very slowly,

 

As for the results, I'm able to think about thoughts/emotions/feelings in a more rational way and I think overall this is going to have a benefit to me long term.  After the two week period i did drop down to 20mg twice daily, I've got about 2 grams left so I'll finish this off and post results when its done!

 

Personally I've got no idea about the choline reaction, I'm not taking any supplements with this trial.

 

The reason I asked about psychedelics is I compared the feeling i occasionally got on NSI-189 to the come up/come down to the likes of LSD, which...was uncomfortable on occasions.  The whole depersonalization/derealization scenario and I'm just wondering if there was a link between psychedelic usage and people feeling that way while using NSI-189.

 

 

Ok, I look forward to hearing your results on this.  I'm not taking any choline but just meant that the feeling NSI gives me is very similar to me taking some kind of choline derivative and subsequently feeling depressed, anxious and full of dread. Which makes me wonder if it's working on similar pathways.  

 

I get what you're saying about psychedelic use, the de-personalization etc..  I can handle that for a few hours under the influence of hallucinogens, but for weeks straight would make me go insane. Which to be honest I was starting to feel like under NSI before I quit.  I guess I'm too sensitive to it or something, I really hope it's not a bad batch or anything.

 

Honestly I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this, it was frightening at the best of times.  Do you also suffer visual snow from hallucinogen use?

Currently using VLK's Phosphate form

Edited by Virtual Wolf, 25 August 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[Dosteov]

Tomorrow will be day 5 for me. I ordered 1G from Wild Distributions. It shipped from Australia. I'm not sure if it was the phosphate form or not.

 

The product came with a small scooper. I was able to pour the powder neatly into a small jar I had. I've been taking 2 large scoops a day.  I'm under the assumption that it each scoop is 40MG. Does anyone know if that's correct or not? I need to get a scale I think. If I were taking 80MG a day it should only last 12 and a half days.

 

I'm definitely feeling something from the product. I do feel a bit better and just feel more appreciative and calmer. Music is more interesting too.  I should order more.

 

I'm also taking 100MG of modafinil, vitamin D and fish oil.

 

How long are people taking this for? Two months or so?

[stillwater]

 

 

 

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

 

I did get quite nervous at the thought of taking it again but at the same time i knew a 40mg dose wouldn't last that long and I really had nothing to lose.  The anxiety is still there for me but it seems to be lowering very very slowly,

 

As for the results, I'm able to think about thoughts/emotions/feelings in a more rational way and I think overall this is going to have a benefit to me long term.  After the two week period i did drop down to 20mg twice daily, I've got about 2 grams left so I'll finish this off and post results when its done!

 

Personally I've got no idea about the choline reaction, I'm not taking any supplements with this trial.

 

The reason I asked about psychedelics is I compared the feeling i occasionally got on NSI-189 to the come up/come down to the likes of LSD, which...was uncomfortable on occasions.  The whole depersonalization/derealization scenario and I'm just wondering if there was a link between psychedelic usage and people feeling that way while using NSI-189.

 

 

Ok, I look forward to hearing your results on this.  I'm not taking any choline but just meant that the feeling NSI gives me is very similar to me taking some kind of choline derivative and subsequently feeling depressed, anxious and full of dread. Which makes me wonder if it's working on similar pathways.  

 

I get what you're saying about psychedelic use, the de-personalization etc..  I can handle that for a few hours under the influence of hallucinogens, but for weeks straight would make me go insane. Which to be honest I was starting to feel like under NSI before I quit.  I guess I'm too sensitive to it or something, I really hope it's not a bad batch or anything.

 

Honestly I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this, it was frightening at the best of times.  Do you also suffer visual snow from hallucinogen use?

Currently using VLK's Phosphate form

 

 

I have a little bit, I also get a lot of auditory snow, similar to tinnitus that's annoying and causes a bit of fear that it could be permanent. The though of being left in that state in general, the anxiety, dissociation, de-personalization, is what scares me the most, for it to become permanent, which is a possibility some substances. 

[golden1]

I noticed an anxiety-type feeling, but it felt closer to being stressed.  Completely different feeling from any normal anxiety I've ever had and much easier to deal with, although I could imagine if it was a lot stronger I would feel like I was going insane. I never felt like I was going to panic and none of it was physical.  Is that what you all feel?

 

 

Its odd because I feel like the (very obvious and awesome) positives that I get are derived from the same feeling. the urge to do things, the constant mild excitement, the upbeat happiness, the calmness with everyday situations.  all seem to be from the stimulation that this mildly stressed feeling brings. Almost like it is activating my mind? Possibly related to its synaptogenic action? just some thoughts because to me it feels central to all the other effects. (it also feels related to the slight headache feeling..)

 

edit: for the curious, I've used psychedelics >100 times easily. I suppose it is close to the come up on lsd, similar forced excitement/stress/mindactivating feeling.

Edited by golden1, 26 August 2014 - 05:24 AM.

[Virtual Wolf]

Tomorrow will be day 5 for me. I ordered 1G from Wild Distributions. It shipped from Australia. I'm not sure if it was the phosphate form or not.

 

The product came with a small scooper. I was able to pour the powder neatly into a small jar I had. I've been taking 2 large scoops a day.  I'm under the assumption that it each scoop is 40MG. Does anyone know if that's correct or not? I need to get a scale I think. If I were taking 80MG a day it should only last 12 and a half days.

 

I'm definitely feeling something from the product. I do feel a bit better and just feel more appreciative and calmer. Music is more interesting too.  I should order more.

 

I'm also taking 100MG of modafinil, vitamin D and fish oil.

 

How long are people taking this for? Two months or so?

 

It seems the average person took 20-40mg Twice daily for around a month, a few like myself pulled out of our trials early after 2 weeks (the time said neurogenesis occurs at) due to extreme anxiety/disassociative state it put us in.

 

I'd recommend 20mg twice daily for a week then going upwards to 40mg, you need to give it at least two weeks!  Also I'd highly recommend getting scales instead of using a scoop as the powder is quite fluffy and easily compacted,  You can get cheap 0.001 scale ones off ebay.

Edited by Virtual Wolf, 26 August 2014 - 07:09 AM.

[Virtual Wolf]

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I do get a bit nervous at the thought of going through that level of anxiety and doom again, but maybe it's worth a try. Are you getting positive results so far?

One thing that's crossed my mind with Nsi, is that the negative reaction was very similar to times when I've experienced excessive choline intake and acetylcholine reaction Nowhere is it mentioned, but I wonder if nsi messes with acetylcholine as well. Just a thought.

To answer your question, yes I have tried shrooms, lsd and dmt, extremely infrequently over the years., perhaps the shrooms quite a bit more than the others.

 

I did get quite nervous at the thought of taking it again but at the same time i knew a 40mg dose wouldn't last that long and I really had nothing to lose.  The anxiety is still there for me but it seems to be lowering very very slowly,

 

As for the results, I'm able to think about thoughts/emotions/feelings in a more rational way and I think overall this is going to have a benefit to me long term.  After the two week period i did drop down to 20mg twice daily, I've got about 2 grams left so I'll finish this off and post results when its done!

 

Personally I've got no idea about the choline reaction, I'm not taking any supplements with this trial.

 

The reason I asked about psychedelics is I compared the feeling i occasionally got on NSI-189 to the come up/come down to the likes of LSD, which...was uncomfortable on occasions.  The whole depersonalization/derealization scenario and I'm just wondering if there was a link between psychedelic usage and people feeling that way while using NSI-189.

 

 

Ok, I look forward to hearing your results on this.  I'm not taking any choline but just meant that the feeling NSI gives me is very similar to me taking some kind of choline derivative and subsequently feeling depressed, anxious and full of dread. Which makes me wonder if it's working on similar pathways.  

 

I get what you're saying about psychedelic use, the de-personalization etc..  I can handle that for a few hours under the influence of hallucinogens, but for weeks straight would make me go insane. Which to be honest I was starting to feel like under NSI before I quit.  I guess I'm too sensitive to it or something, I really hope it's not a bad batch or anything.

 

Honestly I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this, it was frightening at the best of times.  Do you also suffer visual snow from hallucinogen use?

Currently using VLK's Phosphate form

 

 

I have a little bit, I also get a lot of auditory snow, similar to tinnitus that's annoying and causes a bit of fear that it could be permanent. The though of being left in that state in general, the anxiety, dissociation, de-personalization, is what scares me the most, for it to become permanent, which is a possibility some substances. 

 

 

Did you suffer the visual snow before this or after the trial?  I noticed myself that it increased the visual snow while on it, which was perhaps due to over-stimulation.

I also got increased anxiety because I was fearing that I could be left in that state, its a horrible thought to even consider being left in that state...I'm currently ceasing my trial as its not the right time for me to continue with the extra stress going on in life at present and to get a general sense that the disassociative state isn't a long-term effect.

 

Not that I'm a scientist or have any degrees in the field but I think its just a temporary side effect from the extra stimulation from the birth of new neurons.

 

I noticed an anxiety-type feeling, but it felt closer to being stressed.  Completely different feeling from any normal anxiety I've ever had and much easier to deal with, although I could imagine if it was a lot stronger I would feel like I was going insane. I never felt like I was going to panic and none of it was physical.  Is that what you all feel?

 

 

Its odd because I feel like the (very obvious and awesome) positives that I get are derived from the same feeling. the urge to do things, the constant mild excitement, the upbeat happiness, the calmness with everyday situations.  all seem to be from the stimulation that this mildly stressed feeling brings. Almost like it is activating my mind? Possibly related to its synaptogenic action? just some thoughts because to me it feels central to all the other effects. (it also feels related to the slight headache feeling..)

 

edit: for the curious, I've used psychedelics >100 times easily. I suppose it is close to the come up on lsd, similar forced excitement/stress/mindactivating feeling.

 

Half of me thinks it helped me adapt to the stress that i've had lately but the other half thinks otherwise, I'm going to leave the rest of my trial for another month till my work schedule relaxes out a bit and I return to a complete baseline.

 

I did experience moments of happiness that weren't extreme but quite enjoyable compared to what I've been used to over the past few years, I didn't experience any headaches just trouble sleeping along side the extreme anxiety/disassociative state.

 

This link that we have in regards to hallucinogen use is interesting...  Does anyone else have any input on this?

[golden1]

I was just looking again at the structure and I remembered that it is half BZP(benzylpiperazine.)

 

now compare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI-189

 

to:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Piberaline

 

both branch off the BZP part similarly and piberaline states "It has stimulant and antidepressant effects which are thought to be due largely to its active metabolite benzylpiperazine.[1] " 

 

 

https://www.erowid.o...nes_info1.shtml

 

Maybe not since NSI certainly doesn't reduce my appetite and is only barely situationally euphoric, but.. I thought the relationship was still interesting. Possibly it shares some of the serotonin / dopamine effects of BZP or some amount of BZP is produced but it is a low dose. Many many BZP analogs are serotonin agonists!

 

just some half formed thoughts

 

(also headaches and anxiety are very common side effects of bzp from what I've read)

Edited by golden1, 27 August 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[golden1]

Also found this looking through NSI related patents.. never saw it mentioned before: https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Leteprinim

 

Leteprinim (Neotrofin, AIT-082) is a hypoxanthine derivative drug with neuroprotective and nootropic effects.^[1][2][3] It stimulates release of nerve growth factors and enhances survival of neurons in the brain,^{[4][5][6][7][8]} and is under development as a potential treatment for neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and stroke.^[9][10]

 

 

http://www.sciencedi...091305794900175

"Both AIT-082 and PHY improved memory in young mice and restored memory in mice with mild age-induced memory deficits; however only AIT-082 was also effective in subjects with moderate deficits. Neither drug improved memory in mice with severe memory deficits. AIT-082 exhibited effectiveness over a broad dose range (0.5–60 mg/kg), and the effects lasted for seven days after a single high-dose drug administration. AIT-082 was devoid of any effects on performance variables and has not shown any toxic side effects, thus making it an interesting potential treatment for working memory deficits associated with aging, strokes, and Alzheimer's disease."

Edited by golden1, 27 August 2014 - 04:39 PM.

[Rior]

I regret to inform everyone here, that it's become necessary for me to cease my trial of NSI-189.  I've had problems with depersonalization in the past, and I've noticed that using drastically brings back these issues. Not immediately, as the immediate effects were actually quite pleasant...but the longer I take it (3 days+) the more completely unable to function I become. I can function on a "regular functioning" level, as in, I can go to class and take notes and still remember everything and can do all that fine, but when it comes to SOCIAL functioning I'm just gone. Like, I have zero sense of humor anymore, I'm anxious to the point of unable to be myself, I just feel extremely out of it. This is not something I can live with, even for the short duration of the trial (1 month of this feeling sounds like.....absolute hell, to be honest.)  As such, I will be ending my trial of NSI.  I'll probably try Cerebrolysin again, a couple months down the road after I've had a bit of a washout period.

 

I still think NSI has potential, just not for me. I know there are others out there that feel the same way, and it's quite a shame this is the case.  I think if I were to take the NSI long enough, I would see nice noticeable benefits, but I can't stand the side-effects that come with it to go long enough.

[Virtual Wolf]

I was just looking again at the structure and I remembered that it is half BZP(benzylpiperazine.)

 

now compare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSI-189

 

to:

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Piberaline

 

both branch off the BZP part similarly and piberaline states "It has stimulant and antidepressant effects which are thought to be due largely to its active metabolite benzylpiperazine.[1] " 

 

 

https://www.erowid.o...nes_info1.shtml

 

Maybe not since NSI certainly doesn't reduce my appetite and is only barely situationally euphoric, but.. I thought the relationship was still interesting. Possibly it shares some of the serotonin / dopamine effects of BZP or some amount of BZP is produced but it is a low dose. Many many BZP analogs are serotonin agonists!

 

just some half formed thoughts

 

(also headaches and anxiety are very common side effects of bzp from what I've read)

 

 

Also found this looking through NSI related patents.. never saw it mentioned before: https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Leteprinim

 

Leteprinim (Neotrofin, AIT-082) is a hypoxanthine derivative drug with neuroprotective and nootropic effects.^[1][2][3] It stimulates release of nerve growth factors and enhances survival of neurons in the brain,^{[4][5][6][7][8]} and is under development as a potential treatment for neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and stroke.^[9][10]

 

 

http://www.sciencedi...091305794900175

"Both AIT-082 and PHY improved memory in young mice and restored memory in mice with mild age-induced memory deficits; however only AIT-082 was also effective in subjects with moderate deficits. Neither drug improved memory in mice with severe memory deficits. AIT-082 exhibited effectiveness over a broad dose range (0.5–60 mg/kg), and the effects lasted for seven days after a single high-dose drug administration. AIT-082 was devoid of any effects on performance variables and has not shown any toxic side effects, thus making it an interesting potential treatment for working memory deficits associated with aging, strokes, and Alzheimer's disease."

 

Definitely interesting posts, I personally only experience a slight anti-depressant effect.  The rest of the depression was caused by my overall thinking regarding the depersonalization/etc which simply can't be avoided.

 

How effective was it anti-depressive wise for you Golden?  Also if I remember correctly were you experiencing Benzo withdrawal a year ago?

I regret to inform everyone here, that it's become necessary for me to cease my trial of NSI-189.  I've had problems with depersonalization in the past, and I've noticed that using drastically brings back these issues. Not immediately, as the immediate effects were actually quite pleasant...but the longer I take it (3 days+) the more completely unable to function I become. I can function on a "regular functioning" level, as in, I can go to class and take notes and still remember everything and can do all that fine, but when it comes to SOCIAL functioning I'm just gone. Like, I have zero sense of humor anymore, I'm anxious to the point of unable to be myself, I just feel extremely out of it. This is not something I can live with, even for the short duration of the trial (1 month of this feeling sounds like.....absolute hell, to be honest.)  As such, I will be ending my trial of NSI.  I'll probably try Cerebrolysin again, a couple months down the road after I've had a bit of a washout period.

 

I still think NSI has potential, just not for me. I know there are others out there that feel the same way, and it's quite a shame this is the case.  I think if I were to take the NSI long enough, I would see nice noticeable benefits, but I can't stand the side-effects that come with it to go long enough.

 

I went through the exact same effects you did man, like i said to someone previously if you leave it a week then try a one off dose you may have noticeable effects.  Personally my second trial was completely different than my first.

[golden1]

 

 

How effective was it anti-depressive wise for you Golden?  Also if I remember correctly were you experiencing Benzo withdrawal a year ago?

 

I don't get depressed really.. I do a lot to keep a positive outlook and I am lucky. Sometimes I get sad or have regrets which the nsi does help me think more positively about and it does make me even more positive/upbeat.  I have experienced depression though while tapering off benzos and it seems like something like this would have helped, but idk.  I don't have much to compare it to anti-depressant wise.  NSI is making me much more patient with life, like I used to be when I was younger and sometimes even more so.. which is really an awesome effect and one that is almost certainly from the drug.  It is also helps my anxiety or at least it helps me not worry about my anxiety.. something like that? Max I've used it for has been 7 days(around 20 days total), so I will probably be able to say better how much it did after a bit more use.

 

I would say the benzo taper left me feeling a bit off, but nothing bad except I think it probably gave me IBS -_-

 

Edited by golden1, 29 August 2014 - 02:43 AM.

[FeelsNumbMan]

I regret to inform everyone here, that it's become necessary for me to cease my trial of NSI-189.  I've had problems with depersonalization in the past, and I've noticed that using drastically brings back these issues. Not immediately, as the immediate effects were actually quite pleasant...but the longer I take it (3 days+) the more completely unable to function I become. I can function on a "regular functioning" level, as in, I can go to class and take notes and still remember everything and can do all that fine, but when it comes to SOCIAL functioning I'm just gone. Like, I have zero sense of humor anymore, I'm anxious to the point of unable to be myself, I just feel extremely out of it. This is not something I can live with, even for the short duration of the trial (1 month of this feeling sounds like.....absolute hell, to be honest.)  As such, I will be ending my trial of NSI.  I'll probably try Cerebrolysin again, a couple months down the road after I've had a bit of a washout period.

 

I still think NSI has potential, just not for me. I know there are others out there that feel the same way, and it's quite a shame this is the case.  I think if I were to take the NSI long enough, I would see nice noticeable benefits, but I can't stand the side-effects that come with it to go long enough.

 

That's very unfortunate to hear, but thanks for sharing. It even goes to show you that there's always gonna be some people who have good positive experiences with it, and some people with bad. The way you described how you felt seem like the same way I'd describe myself. Not particularly on NSI-189 or anything, but when I just feel totally out of it. And it really sucks to be out of it in a social situation because really, if I can just make it through the social aspect of the day, I think I'll be fine with everything else. If it wasn't for the fact I have to socialize, interact with people, etc. I probably wouldn't mind feel anxious or whatever and hope that it might subside later on.

 

That being said, I've only used NSI-189 for 4 days or so. Again, I did not notice any real benefits and I did feel a bit "out of it". Perhaps, a bit anxious about the whole thing, thinking it might not work after all. I did not stay on it long enough to say whether or not it did. I do intend to resume my trial of it. Perhaps, this time, taking more than a single dose a day, and a higher dose as opposed to 20-30mg. And of course, probably run a week or two week long trial to see how everything works out for me. If I were to dose 40mg 2 times a day, I'd run out before the end of the 2nd week, so I'll probably go with 30mg 2 times a day.

 

I hope you do find something that works for you. That goes for everyone too.

Edited by FeelsNumbMan, 30 August 2014 - 07:30 PM.