6219 replies to this topic

[Flex]

 

 

 

 

I don't doubt that NSI has effects, but yeah there is the question of whether it works by itself or not. I think by itself the effects seem to only come out after 1 week of dosing, so there is a delayed effect there.

 

A thing to note about NSI is everything I've ever read in detail about NSI was said by Neuralstem, so I think NSI may be their moon shot, however we don't really know what's going behind the scenes, just because NSI does something doesn't mean it will pass the FDA and become a mainstream drug, its possible that NSI has a bad side effect profile that we don't know about.

 

 

 

 

I'd say probable, even.  You raise good points.

 

 

Just my assumptions:

 

even meds from the stone age could appear to have new side effects

just look into ncbi, they describe sometimes a new mechanism of old and new meds.

 

on the other hand it depends whether a med is getting researched. If the research is standing still and You develop a unknown side-effect,

You´ll have to wait untill the body is researched enough to understand whats happened if the problems hasnt allready resolved on its self in that time.

 

Correct me if I´m wrong with those thoughts. I tend allways a bit to scaremonger.

[Duchykins]

 

 

 

 

 

Just my assumptions:

 

even meds from the stone age could appear to have new side effects

just look into ncbi, they describe sometimes a new mechanism of old and new meds.

 

on the other hand it depends whether a med is getting researched. If the research is standing still and You develop a unknown side-effect,

You´ll have to wait untill the body is researched enough to understand whats happened if the problems hasnt allready resolved on its self in that time.

 

Correct me if I´m wrong with those thoughts. I tend allways a bit to scaremonger.

 

 

No, I'm totally in your corner and have been called out before for my own "excessive caution."

[drg]

fuuuck. Seriously ? mine stood at room temp for 1 year and 1/2.
Have please You any sources for that, because IIRC I´ve read that it can stand for ~2-3 Years or something.
So I didnt cared, based on that.

Hope its still working

I was just generalizing, it'll probably be fine but putting it in the freezer will be better for its longevity.

[jaiho]

This is my 3rd trial of NSI..

Im now beyond 30 days and not getting benefits anymore.

 

I think this drug is susceptible to resistance just like SSRIs.

 

There was a guy who found the only drug to treat his depression, and it was nardil, a irreversible MAOI. He stopped it, became depressed again, restarted the drug, and it no longer worked.

He killed himself.

 

Either, my batch is a dud, or i have built a resistance.

 

This saddens me because it was so effective the first two times. 

 

My source originally was Ceretropic, before Neuralstem stepped in. Then HHDPharm Phosphate, which worked then stopped working by month 2, and i thought it was because i left the packet open for a couple weeks.

 

Current trial is Freebase from HHDPharm, 20mg sublingal twice a day. No effects, except maybe some mood boost and less disassocation. 

The main benefit i seek from NSI-189 is the emotional wellbeing and removing the numbness of depression.

 

Not sure where to go from there, Maybe an SSRI + TCA again.

[Major Legend]

This is my 3rd trial of NSI..

Im now beyond 30 days and not getting benefits anymore.

 

I think this drug is susceptible to resistance just like SSRIs.

 

There was a guy who found the only drug to treat his depression, and it was nardil, a irreversible MAOI. He stopped it, became depressed again, restarted the drug, and it no longer worked.

He killed himself.

 

Either, my batch is a dud, or i have built a resistance.

 

This saddens me because it was so effective the first two times. 

 

My source originally was Ceretropic, before Neuralstem stepped in. Then HHDPharm Phosphate, which worked then stopped working by month 2, and i thought it was because i left the packet open for a couple weeks.

 

Current trial is Freebase from HHDPharm, 20mg sublingal twice a day. No effects, except maybe some mood boost and less disassocation. 

The main benefit i seek from NSI-189 is the emotional wellbeing and removing the numbness of depression.

 

Not sure where to go from there, Maybe an SSRI + TCA again.

 

Don't think you should give up on it until you mix noopept with it. As for emotional well being hormones and phenylalanine (yes oddly) goes a long way, though nowadays i'm stressed out from having to take care an entire family of leechers with 1 breadwinner, I think I would have legitimately given up on life if it wasn't for brain medicines lol.

[cheezburger]

...or maybe it's the "freebase form" that's not right?

Neuralstem never used this form, I don't understand why people keep buying it.

 

I've read the NSI patent this morning and found a quite interesting paragraph about the delay of the drug starting to be effective:

 

One hypothesis that may account for the slow-onset of the antidepressants' therapeutic activity is that they work by promoting hippocampal neurogenesis. It is expected that neurogenesis would require a number of weeks for stem cells to divide, differentiate, migrate and establish connections with post-synaptic neurons. The neurogenesis theory of depression then postulates that antidepressant effect is brought about by structural changes in the hippocampal circuitry contributed by newly generated neurons stimulated by antidepressants (Malberg et al., 2000; Czeh et al, 2001; Santarelli et al, 2003).

 

 

As traditional AD share some neurogenesis properties like NSI-189, I think we can state that NSI is NOT an instant-ketamine-like-antidepressant. Even if some people got a relief in the initial days, it's wiser to wait 2weeks before concluding anything about NSI. Remember that Neuralstem, in its 1a/1b clinical trial, waited 28 days before making any "depression scale test" to mesure any evolution.

[jjtitus]

Well, a couple of people here have already reported peripheral neuropathy from using the stuff. So let’s say there are about 50 people participating in these threads. Two report neuropathy. That’s one out of every twenty-five, which is four percent. That kind of side effect rate could be a death knell for Neuralstem. At least, it’s probably enough to require a black box warning. Maybe that’s why they get their panties in a bunch every time some nickel and dime operator tries to pirate the stuff—they know about it and don’t want their investors scared off. Then again, I may just be talking out of my tinfoil hat—¿quien sabe?

 

What if it's not peripheral neuropathy, but rather the effects of neurogenesis and neuroregeneraion from previous damage? 

 

Nerves regrowing may be uncomfortable, the same itchiness you get when a wound heals (especially a large wound, affecting more nerves such as a rug burn). The back and neck pain previously discussed could be from a prior back injury, maybe compression in the disks that the body isolated and the regeneration tapped into that nerve network (in that case, may not be beneficial). 

 

Has anyone regained feeling in a limb or numb area of skin? If so, that may point towards neuroregeneraion instead of neuropathy as the main mechanism working here. 

[Shai Hulud]

...or maybe it's the "freebase form" that's not right?

Neuralstem never used this form, I don't understand why people keep buying it.

 

I've read the NSI patent this morning and found a quite interesting paragraph about the delay of the drug starting to be effective:

 

One hypothesis that may account for the slow-onset of the antidepressants' therapeutic activity is that they work by promoting hippocampal neurogenesis. It is expected that neurogenesis would require a number of weeks for stem cells to divide, differentiate, migrate and establish connections with post-synaptic neurons. The neurogenesis theory of depression then postulates that antidepressant effect is brought about by structural changes in the hippocampal circuitry contributed by newly generated neurons stimulated by antidepressants (Malberg et al., 2000; Czeh et al, 2001; Santarelli et al, 2003).

 

 

As traditional AD share some neurogenesis properties like NSI-189, I think we can state that NSI is NOT an instant-ketamine-like-antidepressant. Even if some people got a relief in the initial days, it's wiser to wait 2weeks before concluding anything about NSI. Remember that Neuralstem, in its 1a/1b clinical trial, waited 28 days before making any "depression scale test" to mesure any evolution.

 

Both have different bioavailabilities on different Routes of administration. Phosphate is more active orally. I haven't heard of anything that's generally inactive in it's freebase form and  I see no reason to think that NSI-189 freebase is inactive or not usable for the same purposes.

I've been told that it is more bioavailable sublingually. However, I don't know if has been measured by Neuralstem or is just in assumption (or if this is generally the case for freebases).

Edited by life backwards, 04 August 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Shai Hulud]

 

Well, a couple of people here have already reported peripheral neuropathy from using the stuff. So let’s say there are about 50 people participating in these threads. Two report neuropathy. That’s one out of every twenty-five, which is four percent. That kind of side effect rate could be a death knell for Neuralstem. At least, it’s probably enough to require a black box warning. Maybe that’s why they get their panties in a bunch every time some nickel and dime operator tries to pirate the stuff—they know about it and don’t want their investors scared off. Then again, I may just be talking out of my tinfoil hat—¿quien sabe?

 

What if it's not peripheral neuropathy, but rather the effects of neurogenesis and neuroregeneraion from previous damage? 

 

Nerves regrowing may be uncomfortable, the same itchiness you get when a wound heals (especially a large wound, affecting more nerves such as a rug burn). The back and neck pain previously discussed could be from a prior back injury, maybe compression in the disks that the body isolated and the regeneration tapped into that nerve network (in that case, may not be beneficial). 

 

Has anyone regained feeling in a limb or numb area of skin? If so, that may point towards neuroregeneraion instead of neuropathy as the main mechanism working here. 

 

This is an interesting thought. My chronic pain has become less and less the last month, I know even stopped taking pregabalin and it's still bearable most of the time. However, there have been other changes in my life so that could have been a lot. 

[jjtitus]

...or maybe it's the "freebase form" that's not right?

Neuralstem never used this form, I don't understand why people keep buying it.

 

 

Neuralstem may have picked the phosphate form for other reasons besides efficacy, mainly that it's easier to form the crystalline structure into a pill and it's likely more stable long term. 

 

Anecdotally, my friend has experimented with both the freebase and phosphate, and the effects from 40 mg cycles of each where stronger with the freebase NSI-189. 

[Strangelove]

I got paypal money two days ago but do not know the sender!

Please do not mention the chemical in the paypal notes.

[Shai Hulud]

This is an interesting thought. My chronic pain has become less and less the last month, I know even stopped taking pregabalin and it's still bearable most of the time. However, there have been other changes in my life so that could have been a lot. 

 

 

 

 

What i was trying to say was: My chronic pain has become less and less the last months, I now even stopped taking pregabalin

It was not just one month.

[Flex]

 

fuuuck. Seriously ? mine stood at room temp for 1 year and 1/2.
Have please You any sources for that, because IIRC I´ve read that it can stand for ~2-3 Years or something.
So I didnt cared, based on that.

Hope its still working

I was just generalizing, it'll probably be fine but putting it in the freezer will be better for its longevity.

 

 

thanks, I guess I gonna do this anyway.

 

omg, cant even look at my typos

[foreseason]

I have 1 gram of phosphate for sale.  It's from a reputable source.  $30 shipped

[Heisenburger]

Absolutely. It’s a very easy molecule to synthesize. It used to go for as little as $3/gram. Now THT wants $85 for five grams, although there’s some ambiguity there. If you look near the top of their page it says ‘5 grams.’ But if you look where it says ‘unit quantity,’ it says ’10 grams.’ Either way, it’s a bit expensive. Beat that and I’ll be pounding down your door.

 

I e-mailed them; it turned out to be a ten-gram jar. They told me they would fix the typo.

[MizTen]

 

Well, a couple of people here have already reported peripheral neuropathy from using the stuff. So let’s say there are about 50 people participating in these threads. Two report neuropathy. That’s one out of every twenty-five, which is four percent. That kind of side effect rate could be a death knell for Neuralstem. At least, it’s probably enough to require a black box warning. Maybe that’s why they get their panties in a bunch every time some nickel and dime operator tries to pirate the stuff—they know about it and don’t want their investors scared off. Then again, I may just be talking out of my tinfoil hat—¿quien sabe?

 

What if it's not peripheral neuropathy, but rather the effects of neurogenesis and neuroregeneraion from previous damage? 

 

Nerves regrowing may be uncomfortable, the same itchiness you get when a wound heals (especially a large wound, affecting more nerves such as a rug burn). The back and neck pain previously discussed could be from a prior back injury, maybe compression in the disks that the body isolated and the regeneration tapped into that nerve network (in that case, may not be beneficial). 

 

Has anyone regained feeling in a limb or numb area of skin? If so, that may point towards neuroregeneraion instead of neuropathy as the main mechanism working here. 

 

 

This is what I believe happened to me with a small scar on a finger regaining sensation, and a surgically botched area of permanent damage in my arm. Both had been completely numb for years, and then had weird, neuropathic symptoms a few weeks into NSI-189. The numbness is still gone. There were days were my skin was pretty itchy. I do suspect neuroregeneration in my case.

[owtsgmi]

This is my 3rd trial of NSI..

Im now beyond 30 days and not getting benefits anymore.

 

I think this drug is susceptible to resistance just like SSRIs.

 

There was a guy who found the only drug to treat his depression, and it was nardil, a irreversible MAOI. He stopped it, became depressed again, restarted the drug, and it no longer worked.

He killed himself.

 

Either, my batch is a dud, or i have built a resistance.

 

This saddens me because it was so effective the first two times. 

 

My source originally was Ceretropic, before Neuralstem stepped in. Then HHDPharm Phosphate, which worked then stopped working by month 2, and i thought it was because i left the packet open for a couple weeks.

 

Current trial is Freebase from HHDPharm, 20mg sublingal twice a day. No effects, except maybe some mood boost and less disassocation. 

The main benefit i seek from NSI-189 is the emotional wellbeing and removing the numbness of depression.

 

Not sure where to go from there, Maybe an SSRI + TCA again.

 

Time for you to switch over to PRL-8-53.  Trust me on this... it is very similar to NSI-189 but better.  I take a VERY small microscoop daily for months at a time.

[drg]

Sorry be argumentative but PRL-8-53 is nothing like NSI-189. Glad it works for you though...

[jaiho]

Does PRL affect the limbic system? I believe this is how NSI-189 returned my emotions. Regeneration of the reward system.

I dont think i'll give up yet, my dosing may have been off. I got a new scale for more accurate dosing.

[Izan]

 

This is my 3rd trial of NSI..

Im now beyond 30 days and not getting benefits anymore.

 

I think this drug is susceptible to resistance just like SSRIs.

 

There was a guy who found the only drug to treat his depression, and it was nardil, a irreversible MAOI. He stopped it, became depressed again, restarted the drug, and it no longer worked.

He killed himself.

 

Either, my batch is a dud, or i have built a resistance.

 

This saddens me because it was so effective the first two times. 

 

My source originally was Ceretropic, before Neuralstem stepped in. Then HHDPharm Phosphate, which worked then stopped working by month 2, and i thought it was because i left the packet open for a couple weeks.

 

Current trial is Freebase from HHDPharm, 20mg sublingal twice a day. No effects, except maybe some mood boost and less disassocation. 

The main benefit i seek from NSI-189 is the emotional wellbeing and removing the numbness of depression.

 

Not sure where to go from there, Maybe an SSRI + TCA again.

 

Time for you to switch over to PRL-8-53.  Trust me on this... it is very similar to NSI-189 but better.  I take a VERY small microscoop daily for months at a time.

 

 

what effects did you notice from taking it? and where did you but your prl-8-53?

[swashbucklinpirates]

Here is my final report on NSI-189.

 

Brand: International peptide 40mg/mL, 30mL vial (discontinued product). Exhibited NSI-189 qualities such as tongue warmth and numbing. Doses were measured using a 1mL (100 unit) liquid measuring syringe.

 

Started taking it daily 29 June, 20mg once. On 6 July increased to 30mg per day, on 13 July to 40mg/day, then on 17 July, 40mg twice per day. Ran out on 20 July.

Other supplements taken at the time: Calcium/Mg/Zn, Vit C/E, Fish oil, L-Lysine, ginkgo. B vitamins on a couple days.

Great diet, regular exercise.

 

Headache experienced on days 2 thru 6, 10, 11. The later ones were attributed to B vitamins.

 

On exercise performance: No difference noted on strength, motivation, stamina.

 

On neuropathy/neurogenesis: I am a bilateral upper extremity amputee. I experienced phantom limb almost a decade ago, shortly after I required the amputations. I seldom experienced phantom limb sensations in the past three years. There was no change on NSI-189.

I did notice on day 4 that immediately after dosing, there was mild muscle jitteryness. Also, NSI-189 did not exacerbate my lazy eye issue - It's usually unnoticeable by others but becomes noticeable with things like opiates, high doses of, or specific racetams.

 

On hearing: Around day 5 I thought I was experiencing reduced hearing. I already have bad hearing, so a reduction in hearing is noticeable. I found myself saying "what?" a lot - could also be a listening issue.

 

Sleep: No change

 

Mood: No noticeable benefit or detriment. I did not experience moodiness towards the end or after stopping, nor did I experience anxiety from NSI-189 at any point during the trial.

 

Memory: No significant or notable improvements. See next section.

 

Personal context: I moved to a new city 8 days into the trial. I'm in a great head space (even before NSI-189) in terms of handling stress - I moved days after finishing a summer crash course on Biology for engineers, a condensed 6-week course with quite a lot of material. Aced the course. My other summer course ends this Thursday, and I didn't experience any change in my reluctance to do complex math.

Actually, I put 1% effort in after moving and failed the third test of four. Weeks after discontinuing NSI-189 I found the motivation to do the damned work - my point is, NSI-189 did not affect this aspect of my life.

 

Moving to a new city means lots of meeting new people and remembering names, places, bus schedules, new appointments, things that must be done when moving to a new address etc. I usually keep the appearance of being a hoopy frood through all sorts of situations, so I doubt NSI-189 affected my level of togetherness.

 

However, I frequent certain meetings of an anonymous fellowship regularly, so seeing the same new people weekly was a metaphorical meter stick by which memory recall could be measured. I'm usually horrible with names, so there were a few moments where I remembered someone's name after a week and was like "yeah!" in excitement cause I actually committed it to memory.

 

But besides NSI-189, an equally likely cause could be that I was paying attention and actively listening, a direct result of my being out of my element in a new and unfamiliar city, being vulnerable, and thus more "activated".

 

I will not buy NSI-189 again - If someone sent me some bitter liquid in place of NSI-189, I'd be none the wiser.

 

In conclusion, my opinion is that NSI-189's effects are placebo, but that people who are in the market for some wild, game changing, exclusive compound will ignore remarks like those in this post because they are not in line with what they'd like to believe.

 

I am also of the opinion that a lot of the hype around NSI-189 is based on little objective evidence, and that the most commonly cited evidence for NSI-189's efficacy are from a conversation between Neuralstem's CEO and a stock broker. People, use your friggin heads!

[Major Legend]

Thanks for your report. I'm not sure what you were hoping to gain out of NSI though? It sounds like you were very cognitively capable before you took NSI anyways, plus you were in an extremely stimulating situation to start with.

 

I did try NSI and Noopept on their own, and I could not replicate my prior effects without dosing them both together - which is interesting. It's definitely not placebo, as I have

alot of fatigue and i certainly can't "believe" myself into being alert, but then i'm on a few other things as well, so who knows what is causing what?

 

We are all in the dark here, only a double blinded peer reviewed research paper on humans would seal the deal on NSI. Personally I don't see why any optimal minded person would mess with experimental drugs, the only rational I have for it is, well i'm broken anyways - the potential rewards outweigh the risks.

Edited by Major Legend, 12 August 2015 - 12:42 PM.

[biggyrat]

Hi all, 

 

I'm trying NSI-189, yesterday for the 1st time, today, day 2.    I used  a little 10 mg spoon for dosing and took one, put it under my tongue for a bit, then swallowed.  I took it in the morning both days. Yesterday was amazing.  Felt very calm but not drowsy at all. Very clear, very balanced, I would say, empowered. It lasted from about 10 am until around 4:00 pm or so.  Today I took the same amount with a very different reaction.  I've felt somewhat depressed, fairly  withdrawn and have a significant headache that started a few hours after I took it.    Anyone else have similar responses  and/ or have any thoughts about these very different responses that I'm having? I'm not sure whether I should take it again at this point. 

 

Thanks,

 

Sally

[swashbucklinpirates]

Hi all, 

 

I'm trying NSI-189, yesterday for the 1st time, today, day 2.    I used  a little 10 mg spoon for dosing and took one, put it under my tongue for a bit, then swallowed.  I took it in the morning both days. Yesterday was amazing.  Felt very calm but not drowsy at all. Very clear, very balanced, I would say, empowered. It lasted from about 10 am until around 4:00 pm or so.  Today I took the same amount with a very different reaction.  I've felt somewhat depressed, fairly  withdrawn and have a significant headache that started a few hours after I took it.    Anyone else have similar responses  and/ or have any thoughts about these very different responses that I'm having? I'm not sure whether I should take it again at this point. 

 

Thanks,

 

Sally

 

Headaches are a fairly well-documented issue when starting NSI-189. It indicates the early onset of chemically induced senile dementia.

 

Just kidding. There are 111 pages now of similar complaints. It goes away.

[biggyrat]

Thanks.    

 

Good to hear I'm not the only one.  Just that day one it was so amazing.  

[jaiho]

Can placebo kick in later? I wonder if the great effects i get from NSI around day 22 are placebo or not..

I suspect people getting a full effect from day 1 is placebo though.

[ritterbutzke]

Hey,
Just wanted to post first impression and findings on my NSI use. Have been using it for about 40 days together with Noopept. Both dosed at around 15 mg sublingualy in the morning.
Overall it has been pleasent, has made me a bit more active and alert, but not a game changer.

That was until 3 days ago when I started taking an EGCG supplement (320 mg right after waking up). I have no idea why this is happening, but I have been bursting with energy, doing things i had put off for ages (like completely taking apart my camera and cleaning it, had sand in before and was unuseable) It has felt a little like being on ritalin, just without the hangover.

I know for a fact that it isnt the EGCG alone, because ive taken it previously for an extended period without this response. I cant be sure if the EGCG is working with the NSI or the Noopept, or both, but the difference is massive.

I have found this paper which may explain some of it: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22692966

[jaiho]

Hey,
Just wanted to post first impression and findings on my NSI use. Have been using it for about 40 days together with Noopept. Both dosed at around 15 mg sublingualy in the morning.
Overall it has been pleasent, has made me a bit more active and alert, but not a game changer.

That was until 3 days ago when I started taking an EGCG supplement (320 mg right after waking up). I have no idea why this is happening, but I have been bursting with energy, doing things i had put off for ages (like completely taking apart my camera and cleaning it, had sand in before and was unuseable) It has felt a little like being on ritalin, just without the hangover.

I know for a fact that it isnt the EGCG alone, because ive taken it previously for an extended period without this response. I cant be sure if the EGCG is working with the NSI or the Noopept, or both, but the difference is massive.

I have found this paper which may explain some of it: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22692966

Let us know if this effect continues.
I can also confirm that nsi 189 with occasional psilocybin use is very beneficial for depression.
It appears by itself, nsi 189 is not that effective. But, synergy happens with stuff like moclobemide, noopept etc.
I'm trying it with an ssri now.

[h2o]

Neuralstem announced that they have a new indication for NSI-189: treating the cognitive deficits of schizophrenia. 1B trials for schizophrenia are going to start this year. I noticed that this indication was never mentioned on their website until recently. I wonder if this sheds light on the mechanism of action of NSI modulating NMDA receptors and why they choose schizophrenia next out of all the possibilities. A few members here have speculated on this MoA. The glutamate hyposthesis of schizophrenia is a popular theory.

[Strangelove]

I am still having good results, and I find myself need less and less, this is why I mentioned so small doses contrary to the beginning.