6219 replies to this topic

[TheOpimizer]

 

 

 

Something else that is quite surprising is the number of people that contact me and by accident I got strong clues they have a chronic undiagnosed infection. They are six members that I believe they have an infection (from subtle to serious) and four they confirmed it either by going to the doctor, or for what it worth trying antibiotics I recommended (supplements) and got less brain fog and better mood. Probably many you know already the inflammation depression link, but searching it, its way more common than what I thought.

 

 

What clues are these ? I Think inflammation might play a role in my symptoms (anxiety, fatigue, brain fog, depression) and my ferritin levels are high which could point to inflammation going on in the body. Other then that, I have no clear signs of any inflammatory condition (e.g. gastrointestinal complaints). What supplements you recommend ?

 

 

Hi DaneV, sorry for not replying, I just saw your post by accident looking back.

 

Clues that can give away a chronic infection that started getting serious is brain fog, low mood, lack of energy, anxiety, derealisation, topical pain and inflamation. Common chronic infections that can give these symptoms are in the gut, sinuses, urinary tract, gingiva-tooth and lungs, what all have in common is empty space with no immune system to fight microbes, that can build their numbers over time in a biofilm

and can after some time start giving many different problems according to the organ they attack, for example with chronic microbial pancreatitis you can develop diabetes as the pancreas can stop functioning properly.

 

I hope in the future this subject would become popular in a longevity forum that Longecity is, as chronic (sometimes undiagnosed) infections, have strong correllation with cancer (increasing risk by 30 times) a major factor in blocking arteries trough a biofilm structure and even giving Alzheimer's as you can read in this thread.

 

http://www.longecity...-pneumoniae-cp/

 

 

Strangelove - Are there any supplements you would recommend taking to fight a chronic infection without knowing exactly what type of infection it is (or where in the body it is located) ? I have most of those symptoms at some level (but then again so do most people).

[Shai Hulud]

^What are diagnostic methods to find these infections at all and their specific locations in the body?

[Strangelove]

 

 

Strangelove, I'm interested in your opinion about my noradrenergic hypothesis: As you combine it with Parnate, which is pretty strongly noradrenergic in itself, have you experienced anything related to too much Noradrenaline?

I remember you writing about needing less and less NSI-189. Was that the case after or before you started the Parnate?

 

If so, this would fit in very nicely with my idea that NSI-189 is in some way noradrenergic. Too get more specific, if it would in fact be an potent NRI, it should diminish Tyramine pressure response. Now, if it really does grow the hippocampus and is an NRI, but is more of an adjunct antidepressant (as many here seem to experience), then using an irreversible MAOI with NSI-189 could really be a dream combo: The irreversible MAOIs are the most efficient antidepressants we know, but have the downside of potentially dangerous blood pressure rises if comsuming too much tyramine rich foods (at least if the MAOI is taken perorally), so one would always need to watch out for this. Tyramine is an NE releaser: When uptaken in symphathetic nerve terminals, it enhances NE release via TAAR1 activation. But an NRI , if potent enough, prevents Tyramine uptake in sympathetic nerve terminals. Thus, blood pressure rise doesn't occur.

One would have a strong antidepressant effects, but with less or no food interactions and also (if this holds true) regrowth of hippocampal volume.

 

This sounds especially nice to me. I hope to get a prescription for phenelzine, soon and will check my blood pressure before and when I start taking it. Of course also my response to Tyramine containing foods. After that I will try what happens when I add NSI-189! 

 

 

Its obvious (at least from my personal subjective experience) that NSI-189 does not have a direct effect in monoamines the way other classical antidepressants have, I say this because from my personal experience, I am getting a calming/stabilizing effect from lower doses, a dopaminergic effect most of the times with larger doses, and anxiety a maybe noradrenergic effect from even larger doses. NSI-189 is clearly dopaminergic for me, I am usually having increased self confidence and I feel more social being in a state that reminds dopamine boosters. Generally has a stimulant effect and the effects from boosting mood can easily turned to anxiety if there is a serious issue that I need to find a solution, at that times I am more introverted and even more anxious to find a solution fast, when without NSI-189 I am calmer thinking problems through, in general though I could not think myself without NSI-189 as the natural mood boost and increased energy worth the rare times I am having anxiety from it.

 

Other members have described it as clearly, gabaergic, dopaminergic, noradrenergic in various posts in this thread so there is no consensus in subjective experiences, if I had to say something would be that is a modulator that can bring hippocampal function in a more normal, default state (like when where young) before life experiences and our own processing got as stuck in unhealthy mental patterns, some past posts seem to suggest something like this.

[fairy]

N-acetylcysteine as powerful molecule to destroy bacterial biofilms. A systematic review
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25339490.

Effect of ciprofloxacin and N-acetylcysteine on bacterial adherence and biofilm formation on ureteral stent surfaces
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19899620.

First two results with Google Search (n acetylcysteine biofilm).

[thomasanderson2]

* * *
Generally has a stimulant effect and the effects from boosting mood can easily turned to anxiety if there is a serious issue that I need to find a solution, at that times I am more introverted and even more anxious to find a solution fast, when without NSI-189 I am calmer thinking problems through, in general though I could not think myself without NSI-189 as the natural mood boost and increased energy worth the rare times I am having anxiety from it.

* * *

 

Extreme Anxiety?

Does it seem plausible that too high a dosage of NSI-189 could cause extreme - nearly paralyzing anxiety?

 

On the hunch that I might not have been dosing enough, I took 30mg sublingual NSI (freebase) yesterday afternoon. A few hours later, a latent or "dormant" concern that had been on my mind for some time re-surfaced with a vengeance.  For several hours I went through a fit of anxiety - and then depression.  (I should note I also used 250 mg uridine in the afternoon - I'd not used uridine in a long time, and I used a bit of Piracetam as well).

Then, before bed yesterday, I took another 30mg NSI - as I was trying to stay consistent. This morning the anxiety and worry continues - but somewhat reduced.

 

Could the anxiety / worry be explained by the relatively high NSI dosage?

Edited by thomasanderson2, 03 December 2015 - 02:49 PM.

[Braindude1234]

 

* * *
Generally has a stimulant effect and the effects from boosting mood can easily turned to anxiety if there is a serious issue that I need to find a solution, at that times I am more introverted and even more anxious to find a solution fast, when without NSI-189 I am calmer thinking problems through, in general though I could not think myself without NSI-189 as the natural mood boost and increased energy worth the rare times I am having anxiety from it.

* * *

 

Extreme Anxiety?

Does it seem plausible that too high a dosage of NSI-189 could cause extreme - nearly paralyzing anxiety?

 

On the hunch that I might not have been dosing enough, I took 30mg sublingual NSI (freebase) yesterday afternoon. A few hours later, a latent or "dormant" concern that had been on my mind for some time re-surfaced with a vengeance.  For several hours I went through a fit of anxiety - and then depression.  (I should note I also used 250 mg uridine in the afternoon - I'd not used uridine in a long time, and I used a bit of Piracetam as well).

Then, before bed yesterday, I took another 30mg NSI - as I was trying to stay consistent. This morning the anxiety and worry continues - but somewhat reduced.

 

Could the anxiety / worry be explained by the relatively high NSI dosage?

 

It is likely the uridine, I find anything with choline source does that to me as well. 

[Shai Hulud]

I never took a choline source. Guess you are aiming for pro cognitive effects? I'm wondering: do you feel any effect on depression or quality of sleep?

[thomasanderson2]

Uridine? That's interesting. That stuff is supposed to help with mood and cognition.

 

I had used it last year - maybe 250mg / day for a few months - and I don't recall negative symptoms like this.

I suppose different supplements not only effect different people differently - but they can effect the same person differently under changed conditions.

 

About 20 years go, I used choline quite regularly - while taking Piracetam and Hydergine in graduate school. At the time it was an amazing combination for cognitive enhancement - but I personally experienced issues with anxiety which might have been related to the choline. (I'm tempted to start - or continue - a topic on Hydergine; if I recall, it was a very beneficial nootropic - but there were reports over the years of heart valve damage and un

clear if anyone has ever got to the bottom of this).

[Shai Hulud]

I found a lot of threads about  acetylcholine and negative mood symptoms, this one is pretty informative:

http://www.longecity...oline-and-mood/

 

But sorry for being OT, we should return to NSI-189 now.

[MizTen]

 

I have been using Strangelove's NSI-189 for 12 days now. I started with 10 mg two times a day, sublingually the first two days, then took 20 mg once a day. The last two days now I've been taking 30 mg once a day. I can definately say that it works. I can feel that it is antidepressive. I am less ruminative about things, less down in a depressive mood.

 

I’m really liking Strangelove’s new stuff. Got ten grams yesterday and could feel its effects from the first 40-mg. dose. I had been ruminating all morning about not having been nicer to my parents before they died, and listening to old Todd Rundgren songs, which only compounded the problem. The day started out well; I had the day off and was getting a lot of productive work done around the house when the melancholy suddenly gripped me. The NSI-189 lifted me right out of it and a couple of hours later I was back to my old self and returned to mopping the floors and rearranging my storage space. I don’t think it was a placebo effect. I have a pet theory that once the NSI-189 does its magic, which takes a few weeks or months to initially kick in, the brain somehow becomes “primed” in some way such that subsequent single doses have an immediate effect.

 

 

I kind of think that too, the priming effect, that is.
 

[Heisenburger]

About 20 years go, I used choline quite regularly - while taking Piracetam and Hydergine in graduate school. At the time it was an amazing combination for cognitive enhancement - but I personally experienced issues with anxiety which might have been related to the choline. (I'm tempted to start - or continue - a topic on Hydergine; if I recall, it was a very beneficial nootropic - but there were reports over the years of heart valve damage and un

clear if anyone has ever got to the bottom of this).

 

 

Ah, a fellow Durk Pearson baby who lived to tell about it—pleased to make your acquaintance. I’ll bet you drank that absolutely ghastly-tasting stuff that TwinLab sold back in the day.

 

Anyway, I’d say we can officially call Hydergine old school biohacking now. But Hydergine and piracetam really were the granddaddy combo of nootropics. And they really worked, too. I haven’t taken Hydergine in at least seven or eight years, I’d say—ever since Novartis stopped making the stuff. Used to buy it from QHI in England. I still take piracetam every day, though. I consider it to be one of the essentials—I have an ‘optimal stack’ consisting of 16 different compounds and formulations that I use when I’m financially secure, and a ‘budget stack’ consisting of only five things that I fall back on when money is tight. Piracetam is on the budget list—you’ll never catch me not having a kilogram or two lying around the house. I take 9.6 grams/day in two divided doses when the juices are flowing, and half that in a single morning dose when they’re not.

[Strangelove]

 

* * *
Generally has a stimulant effect and the effects from boosting mood can easily turned to anxiety if there is a serious issue that I need to find a solution, at that times I am more introverted and even more anxious to find a solution fast, when without NSI-189 I am calmer thinking problems through, in general though I could not think myself without NSI-189 as the natural mood boost and increased energy worth the rare times I am having anxiety from it.

* * *

 

Extreme Anxiety?

Does it seem plausible that too high a dosage of NSI-189 could cause extreme - nearly paralyzing anxiety?

 

On the hunch that I might not have been dosing enough, I took 30mg sublingual NSI (freebase) yesterday afternoon. A few hours later, a latent or "dormant" concern that had been on my mind for some time re-surfaced with a vengeance.  For several hours I went through a fit of anxiety - and then depression.  (I should note I also used 250 mg uridine in the afternoon - I'd not used uridine in a long time, and I used a bit of Piracetam as well).

Then, before bed yesterday, I took another 30mg NSI - as I was trying to stay consistent. This morning the anxiety and worry continues - but somewhat reduced.

 

Could the anxiety / worry be explained by the relatively high NSI dosage?

 

 

One of the most common side effects mentioned in this thread for NSI-189 is anxiety, and seem to be closely connected with higher dosing.

 

Your and my experience (and few others that described the kind of anxiety) is very similar. Although NSI-189 positive effects in boosting energy, mood, confidence and positive internal dialog can be very real, in my experience when there is a serious objective problem, its more difficult to push it away, I get more serious in thinking about it, and try harder to find a solution with a result to get increased anxiety, I feel less care free and the issue more pressing than without NSI-189.

 

The vast majority of time I feel more positive, confident and social, but the times I get unneeddedly serious and overthinking (especially when with company) I would add noopept, tianeptine sulfate and/or etizolam that would not cover the benefits of NSI-189, but would minimize the anxious feeling.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Strangelove, what would you say has generally been the most anxiolytic of those toppers?
 Could you by chance mark them in order of efficiency as well, yes?

 

Like:
 

Noopept = 5/10

Tianeptine = 6/10

Etizolam = 7/10

 

etc.

[Strangelove]

Strangelove, what would you say has generally been the most anxiolytic of those toppers?
 Could you by chance mark them in order of efficiency as well, yes?

 

Like:
 

Noopept = 5/10

Tianeptine = 6/10

Etizolam = 7/10

 

etc.

 

Its difficult to put numbers to it, as the anxiolytic effects are highly dose dependent with increased side effects with higher doses.

 

For pure anxiolysis etizolam is at the top, it makes sense as its a benzodiazepine analog (that is with all the negatives also). Its not the best combo with NSI-189 for me, but I had one of my worst weeks of my life on a NSI-189, tianeptine sulfate, etizolam combo, and it was extremely helpful making me feel much closer to normal from the first day I tried it.

 

Noopept comes second in anxiolysis, and it has the benefit that you can use large doses, without spacing out much and getting the nootropic effects described in noopept threads. I use a NSI-189/noopept combo often for its very motivational effect.

 

I like NSI-189 with the addition of tianeptine sulfate as it gives increased mood boost and a care free feeling, its especially good in social interactions, as Heisenburger mentioned before, everyone seem to like me more while on this combo.

[sentics]

you do mean one of the best weeks, right "on a NSI-189, tianeptine sulfate, etizolam combo"?

how is etizolam in terms of tolerance and addiction, i hear it's less addictive than regular benzos, but how long do you think you can safely take it?

[Heisenburger]

how is etizolam in terms of tolerance and addiction, i hear it's less addictive than regular benzos, but how long do you think you can safely take it?

 

The way I’ve always liked to express it is that etizolam is only one-third as addictive as benzos are, in that it takes about three times as long to get addicted, the withdrawal is only one-third as bad, and it only lasts one-third as long. If you use pressed tablets from a legitimate pharmaceutical manufacturer and keep usage down to one or two milligrams a day, you can go quite some time—perhaps a couple of months, at least.

[justabody]

Does anyone one know if NSI can interact with other medications? I can't find any information on how it might affect enzymes of metabolism. Really want to try it, but I'm paranoid it might affect steroid medications I'm using for allergies (increase levels significantly).

[Strangelove]

you do mean one of the best weeks, right "on a NSI-189, tianeptine sulfate, etizolam combo"?

how is etizolam in terms of tolerance and addiction, i hear it's less addictive than regular benzos, but how long do you think you can safely take it?

 

Correcting what I wrote before.

 

I had one of my worst weeks of my life (and starting) a NSI-189, tianeptine sulfate, etizolam combo, it was extremely helpful making me feel much closer to normal, from the first day I tried it

 

After the initial shock I continued with this combo for some weeks, until I felt good enough to function without this combo, but I do not really see any reason stopping NSI-189 when I regularly feel above baseline with it. Although I think stopping it for close to a month I ll go again to my old dysthymic self, not that I am cured, but NSI-189 its the best antidepressant/"nootropic" I have on hand right now.

[thomasanderson2]

 

Ah, a fellow Durk Pearson baby who lived to tell about it—pleased to make your acquaintance. I’ll bet you drank that absolutely ghastly-tasting stuff that TwinLab sold back in the day.

 

Anyway, I’d say we can officially call Hydergine old school biohacking now. But Hydergine and piracetam really were the granddaddy combo of nootropics. And they really worked, too. I haven’t taken Hydergine in at least seven or eight years, I’d say—ever since Novartis stopped making the stuff. Used to buy it from QHI in England. I still take piracetam every day, though. I consider it to be one of the essentials—I have an ‘optimal stack’ consisting of 16 different compounds and formulations that I use when I’m financially secure, and a ‘budget stack’ consisting of only five things that I fall back on when money is tight. Piracetam is on the budget list—you’ll never catch me not having a kilogram or two lying around the house. I take 9.6 grams/day in two divided doses when the juices are flowing, and half that in a single morning dose when they’re not.

 

Yes. The good old days of nootropics... I recall drinking some kind of TwinLab vitamin C powder drink. For general supps, I think I was using mostly Solgar and TwinLab - and I probably obtained hydergine from QHI as well. Followed Gary Null and Robert Atkins - and the nootropic authorities of the time - Ward Dean, John Morgenthaler, and Steven Fowkes (There is stil a CERI page out there - but not recently updated). And I see Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw are still out there too.

 

I've been ambivalent about using Piracetam continuously - but apparently many people are doing so without issues.  I'll probably do more homework on Hydergine as I think it agreed with me and it definitely synergizes well with racetams. The heart valve concern is dubious as I've not seen a single reference to anything like that when I searched Pubmed. Sandoz stopped making it but it is available under generic labeling as ergoloid mesylates.

Edited by thomasanderson2, 08 December 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[thomasanderson2]

 

 

I kind of think that too, the priming effect, that is.

 

I think many folks are sharing experiences which modify the original conceptual understanding of NSI-189 - that it's positive effects result from regrowth of the hippocampus.

 

The observation that NSI-189 may take several weeks or even months to begin working would be consistent with the earlier model.

However, *IF* continuous daily dosing is required to obtain daily benefits, that suggests that positive effects result from a fast-acting and relatively short-term dynamic (albeit one that requires some kind of priming to become active).

 

Would this suggest that the earlier model for understanding NSI-189 is no longer valid?

Would there be any way of reconciling these observations with the "growth of hippocampus" notions?

 

One very speculative theory I would suggest is that perhaps NSI does initiate some kind of metabolic process that grows the hippocampus.

But the regrowth in the hippocampus itself doesn't have much of an anti-depressant effect.

And that it's the metabolic process involved in the regrowth - the process initiated by taking NSI-189 acutely - that results in anti-depressant effects.

And that for this metabolic process to become active or noticeable either some kind of "priming" is required - or some regrowth in the hippocampus is required.

[jaiho]

Phase 1b data released.
http://investor.neur...p?s=43&item=213

Paper released on it
http://www.nature.co...mp2015178a.html

[Londonscouser]

'The post-hoc repeated measures ANOVA suggested a modest, though not statistically significant, increase in the left hippocampal volume in the NSI-189-treated patients, but not in the right side. In amygdala volume analysis, the trend of volume increase over time was non-significant on the left side but significant on the right side of the brain'

 

​Interesting 

[jaiho]

The amygdala activity might contribute to its increased emotional effects. Something beneficial for Anhedonia

[Greek86]

Hey Guys. 

 

I've only been using NSI for a very short while, 3 days to be exact, so i'm not going write a full review yet of my experiences. I wanted to ask the community a few questions. I procured NSI-189 Freebase and NSI-189 Phosphate from 2 separate sources.

 

Day 1: The first day, I took the NSI-189 Freebase (20mg x 3 dose spread throughout the day)  and I found it very uplifting and generally pretty positive. I also found myself more emotional, and I also had a heightened sense of vigilance, as I worked-out much harder that I typically would. I would also say that it promotes bowel movements like an extraordinarily strong coffee

 

Day 2:The following  day I took 2 doses of 20mg each of the NSI-189 Phosphate and I did not notice anything. As a matter of fact I would probably contribute any effects I felt that day to a placebo effect.  

 

Day 3: I took the Freebase with a small dose of my my prescribed medication Vyvanse and I found that it gave me really bad anxiety and paranoia to the point where I couldn't concentrate for focus. It also elevated my heart rate and I couldn't sit still or study effectively. I had to take some aniracetam to calm down. 

 

My questions to the community which relates more to Day 2 than the other days:

 

Has anyone noticed the Phosphate having minimal to no effect? Perhaps it takes longer for the effects to onset like a few days or weeks? I was considering the fact that the supplier may have send me a poor quality product or possibly a fake. I don't want to jump to conclusions so I won't name any names yet for the supplier of the NSI-189 Phosphate. However, I will say they are relatively reputable with 2 websites, independent testing and dozen's of products. That being said they never provided me with the CoA as promised.

 

Thanks for your comments ahead of time

 

 

Edited by Greek86, 09 December 2015 - 03:01 AM.

[Heisenburger]

I was considering the fact that the supplier ripped me off. I don't want to name any names yet for the supplier of the NSI-189 Phosphate supplier. But I will say they are relatively reputable with 2 websites, independent testing and dozen's of products. That being said they never provided me with the CoA as promised.

 

There’s only one company that I can think of that you could possibly be talking about, and they went belly-up a couple of weeks ago. Which is a shame, as they had really good prices and excellent service. They will be sorely missed.

 

[Greek86]

 

I was considering the fact that the supplier ripped me off. I don't want to name any names yet for the supplier of the NSI-189 Phosphate supplier. But I will say they are relatively reputable with 2 websites, independent testing and dozen's of products. That being said they never provided me with the CoA as promised.

 

There’s only one company that I can think of that you could possibly be talking about, and they went belly-up a couple of weeks ago. Which is a shame, as they had really good prices and excellent service. They will be sorely missed.

 

 

Sorry let me clarify:  I don't want to make it sounds like i'm automatically assuming that I was ripped off, t the idea had crossed my mind. And this company is still active and well. PM and i'll tell you where I got it from if you are really interested.

 

Cheers,

[Bugatti]

When I first wrote my experience on NSI-189 I suspected it was a placebo. So I wanted to continue taking it before I made another post. I thought it would build up and I would maybe feel something different later, but turns out nothing has changed. Maybe it just doesn't work for everybody.

[Greek86]

I'm certain that the NSI Freebase I procured worked. But the NSI Phosphate has not worked for me  in the same way which has caused me to question it's authenticity. I ordered both types (Freebase and Phosphate) because I wanted to try both and most of the studies were done with the Phosphate.

 

Perhaps it's not an authenticity issue and it's an effectiveness of the phosphate issue or maybe the phosphate takes a few weeks to kick in as some people have reported. I just don't know which is why I would appreciate feedback from the community

Edited by Greek86, 09 December 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[jaiho]

You have to give NSI-189 a full 28 days of dosing to get its benefits.

Anyone getting effects from the first few days is simply the placebo effect. Though, i could be wrong but this is my personal experience from multiple cycles.

I keep a diary of when NSI-189 kicks in, and its obvious. Its always around the day 22 mark.

[Strangelove]

I'm certain that the NSI Freebase I procured worked. But the NSI Phosphate has not worked for me  in the same way which has caused me to question it's authenticity. I ordered both types (Freebase and Phosphate) because I wanted to try both and most of the studies were done with the Phosphate.

 

Perhaps it's not an authenticity issue and it's an effectiveness of the phosphate issue or maybe the phosphate takes a few weeks to kick in as some people have reported. I just don't know which is why I would appreciate feedback from the community

 

Thanks for the feedback, its good to see another confirmation that the freebase I shipped works, but I still believe its somewhat "diluted" by the seller with an inactive filler to be able to sell it at a competitive price. 

 

I am now even more careful choosing a bulk supplier, I got one free and three paid samples, only one look the same as the NSI-189 HDD used to have. This seller has both phosphate and freebase, both subjectively seem very active and its possibly the original manufacturer. I am going to buy phosphate and when I have the money (saving for HPLC also) I ll buy freebase also. Price is still half from the cheapest seller found on line and can go much lower for large amounts.