6219 replies to this topic

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

a week or two?? wtf... I thought it only lasted a couple of hours?? I'm seriously worried here...

I'm cold, weak, jittery, dry/tight throat, slightly blurred vision... what's happening...

[obliviron]

How do I buy this?

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

I'm about to try NSI189 for the first time. Before I do, I want to make sure nothing I take is contraindicated.

selegiline - 1.25 mg every morning
l-theanine - 50 mg every morning
ALCAR - 200 mg most mornings
melatonin - 16 mg every night
zopiclone - 3.75 mg every night
low dose naltrexone - 4.5 mg every night - stopped taking four nights ago, I think it was causing problems for me re: ACTH and adrenal function
various antibiotics for Lyme disease
various herbs for Lyme


Any potential issues?

 

There's clearly an issue here, something with my HPA axis? My body is way off, someone please offer insight...

[drg]

a week or two?? wtf... I thought it only lasted a couple of hours?? I'm seriously worried here...

I'm cold, weak, jittery, dry/tight throat, slightly blurred vision... what's happening...

yea it'll last a couple hours then if you take it tomorrow it will last a couple more hours.... so I am saying don't give up if u can manage the side effects

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

eff man, there's no way I can handle these side effects... I do feel like the effect has finally peaked, thank God. I think it must be contraindicated with selegiline or something.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

k the sides have finally subsided, feeling somewhat normal. I'm kind of afraid to take my evening sleep stuff, melatonin and zopiclone. Thoughts, any chance for interaction?

[BasicBiO]

I'd bet it's the selegelline..Possibly made the DA effects more pronounced. Also,  I tried ALCAR(small dose) with NSI and that lead to intense night time discomfort/Insomnia similar to what you are describing.  

 

I use a tiny dose of bacopa/Bacognize at night and it helps me sleep nicely..although I don't have much issue due to NSI alone.

 

Either way, I would not mix all of those meds. Hope you feel better.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

k well attempted sleep was a disaster. Didn't take melatonin or zopiclone. Was starting to drift off around 5AM and was violently jerked awake, kicked my legs, vomited a tiny bit then swallowed it. Brain felt like a yoyo. Definitely messed something up. Today I'm afraid to take anything. Any further input is appreciated/

[drg]

how long have you been taking your other meds? I would cut the naltraxone, segeline if you have not been on them long... also depending the time of day you took NSI189 try to take it eariler. I have some sleep distrubance on NSI189 but it is just normal sleep problems if I take it first thing in the morning. I am taking like 50mg a day too.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

Selegiline for three years. Have been down to 1.25 mg for about a year or so. Was on naltrexone for around four months, stopped just over a week ago.

I thought the sides from NSI had subsided but they seemed to come back overnight. Like all my basic functions aren't working. Always thirsty but urinating excessively (so getting dehydrated), brain jerks me awake when I try and sleep, my breathing rhythm is off, I feel cold and shiver.

EDIT: whatever the effect, I'm still feeling it 15 hours later. What's the half life here, could I have done some real damage?

EDIT: I found someone on this thread who combined selegiline with NSI, messaged them and am hoping to hear back..

Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 22 March 2016 - 01:09 PM.

[jaiho]

i've combined moclobemide with nsi-189 with great results. an MAO-A inhibitor rather than MAO-B (Selegiline) 

I don't see there would be any interaction with NSI considering people take it with Parnate, which is both MAO-A & MAO-B inhibition.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

hmm maybe it's not the selegiline, maybe I just have zero tolerance for the stuff...

headache, thirst, dehydration, spasms, labored breathing, difficulty swallowing, paresthesia... sound like any condition in particular?

Edited by Omega 3 Snake Oil, 22 March 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Strelok]

k well attempted sleep was a disaster. Didn't take melatonin or zopiclone. Was starting to drift off around 5AM and was violently jerked awake, kicked my legs, vomited a tiny bit then swallowed it. Brain felt like a yoyo. Definitely messed something up. Today I'm afraid to take anything. Any further input is appreciated/

Sounds like you chose a bad time to not take your zopiclone.  I suggest keeping everything else the same, i.e. take melatonin and zopiclone at your normal schedule, and see how NSI works for you.  Then after a couple weeks, you might slowly phase out the melatonin or zopiclone (one at a time) if you wish.  Also, don't take NSI later in the day if you find it interferes with sleep (and reduce dosage if necessary). 

 

[StevesPetRat]

hmm maybe it's not the selegiline, maybe I just have zero tolerance for the stuff...

headache, thirst, dehydration, spasms, labored breathing, difficulty swallowing, paresthesia... sound like any condition in particular?

 

Yes, anxiety.

This is a common enough startup side effect. Those who've stuck with it say it passes in 1 - 3 weeks, and was generally worth it.

You may want to lower further your selegiline, as some are reporting increased sensitivity to stims on NSI.

 

 

Anyway, that's not really why I came back to post. I still propose that cortisol modulation is a primary means by which the effects of NSI-189 are realized. However, looking at its low affinity for every tested receptor type (there's a post somewhere within the past few pages), I wonder if the upstream cause of this modulation is in fact epigenetic. Of course, I don't have any very strong evidence for this proposal except anecdote. Two of the most powerful substances I've tried are epigenetic modulators:

Fisetin: inhibits the cFos gene, this was a sort of lightbulb-turning-on type substance for me

Vorinostat: HDACi, proven in animal models of fear extinction; a single dose eradicated my conditioned adrenaline response at the poker table (I didn't write about it in that thread, but someone else has a nice series of posts).

 

NSI and vorinostat in particular felt very similar, thought the vorinostat provided a far more situational and short term emotional modulation, whereas NSI-189 was more chronic and general.

 

Any thoughts?

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

In ER waiting to see a doctor. Breathing is laboured, head is pounding, losing strength all over.

[Ovi]

Considering you've taken only 5 mg, you're probably having an allergic reaction. Good thing you went to see a doctor, the half-life is 17-20 hours.

[Daniel Cooper]

In ER waiting to see a doctor. Breathing is laboured, head is pounding, losing strength all over.

 

 

How long have you been taking the zopiclone?  If for very long, you may have achieved some measure of tolerance, which can result in down regulation of GABA production, receptor density, and changes to receptor conformation. You might be primed for anxiety issues because of this.  

 

If NSI-189 has some anxiogenic impact (even if transitory), your skipping the zopiclone might have set you up for an anxiety attack, which do match your symptoms (of course those symptoms also match other issues as well).

 

 

If you are looking for cognitive improvement I'd think about long term getting off the zopiclone.  It isn't going to do anything positive for you in that respect.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

Zopiclone over three years, but I only take half a pill. These symptoms all began last night, three hours after I took 5mg Nsi. I'd like to think you're right and it's nothing serious, but I have nothing but neuro symptoms, and they're getting progressively worse

[Daniel Cooper]

Zopiclone over three years, but I only take half a pill. These symptoms all began last night, three hours after I took 5mg Nsi. I'd like to think you're right and it's nothing serious, but I have nothing but neuro symptoms, and they're getting progressively worse

 

Three years is definitely long enough to have reached tolerance, even at that reduced dose.

 

You did the right thing going to the ER.  Hopefully they can tell you what is going on.  But keep in mind an anxiety attack can present as neuro like symptoms - tingling in the hands and feet, shortness of breath, sweating, racing heart, weakness and even pains.

 

I speak from experience here.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

well, got sent home from the hospital. Unsurprisingly the tests didn't show anything, and even less surprisingly the doctor hadn't heard of NSI-189. I'm trying to put together what exactly happened/went wrong... I read that one theorized mechanism of action for NSI involves cortisol pathways... I've been taking this:  http://www.healthypl...0-capsules.html

Contains stuff to support the adrenals... any thoughts re: whether it may interact?  I still have a headache and feel like hell but I seem to be getting better...

[jaybird10 2]

Hey Snake Oil,

 

    Im from Ontario Canada too just 30 mins from Ottawa. Im sorry to see what you went through and glad to see your doing better. I ve read somewhere that nsi-189 is a combination of niacinamide (vitamin b3) and pyrazine (chinese herb). Not sure if their would be any sort of reaction with that supplement. Ive ordered some but am hesitant now after reading your posts. I have alot of anxiety and I couldn t imagine it being raised for any amount of time.

[drg]

Ive been taking nsi 189 for 2 + years, I have taken almost every illegal drug imaginable during that time, and I never had any contradiction, my blood pressure was crazy high on stims but I can't say that the NSI caused it... honeslty you probably just had a panic attack

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

I also have Lyme disease with longstanding neurological symptoms, and I take a lot of meds for that. I'm guessing it's Lyme related, or a contra to one of my Lyme drugs/supplements.

[Heisenburger]

Vorinostat: HDACi, proven in animal models of fear extinction; a single dose eradicated my conditioned adrenaline response at the poker table (I didn't write about it in that thread, but someone else has a nice series of posts).

 

Are vorinostat and CL-994 the same thing?

 

[jaiho]

Ive been taking nsi 189 for 2 + years, I have taken almost every illegal drug imaginable during that time, and I never had any contradiction, my blood pressure was crazy high on stims but I can't say that the NSI caused it... honeslty you probably just had a panic attack

 

Is it still as effective as it was when you started? would like to hear more on dosages and benefits

[Strangelove]

Very sorry to hear about this happening, I hope you are feeling better by now.

 

Anyone that have read experiences with lyme and its neurological symptoms know that can be a tough one, its good that you started with only 5mg. Personaly, I do not think its an allergic reaction, Daniel Cooper is probably right about the zopiclone withdrawal, but I think another issue is that your nervous system at this time is in a bad enough condition to handle even this small dose.

 

There are people having lost sensation in parts of their body (Mizten is the one name I remember) that got to feel again some part of her arm. NSI-189 has effects in the peripheral nervous system. I have used an electromagnet with some delta isochronic tone track to get me to sleep before, it was somewhat "funny" the feeling I had when I had the electromagnet near my legs while I had previously taken my regular NSI-189 dose, it was like I could feel the electromagnetic pulses, getting my legs so relaxed like a had a very good massage. It was a strong calm feeling, that I would not feel without the NSI-189. 

 

I am saying all this, because NSI-189 seems to be some kind of modulator of the nervous system. Anyone reading this huge thread from the beginning, would see the "making me feel like when I was child" many times. I believe NSI-189 resets some parts of the nervous system, before we had our hardware "messed up" from difficult life experiences. This been in the software sense of negative thought patterns, or possibly energizing back your nervous system to a previously higher energy state that cannot mantain at this time.

 

Of course all this is not a technical explanation of any kind... but again, its interesting the experiences of "making me feel like when I was a child", that some get a stimulant, and others a calming effect, and how natural the effect feels for many. After years of been in a dystymic state, partly due to a chronic low level infection, I got seriously manic the first three days, my previous self coming back in "full force" been more energetic, conscious parts of my brain and self-talk"waking up", started eating more e.t.c. I do not think I would have this kind of strong reaction, if I was not so lethargic from the chronic infection I had. 

 

Omega 3 Snake Oil, this would sound counterintuitive having the experience you had, but you might want to try a very small 1mg (or less) dose, when you feel you are in a good level managing your lyme symptoms. Although if your experience felt really disagreeing with your body, and not "just" overly stimulating, indeed you might had some kind of an allergic reaction, and be best not trying again.

Edited by Strangelove, 23 March 2016 - 08:09 AM.

[drg]

Is it still as effective as it was when you started? would like to hear more on dosages and benefits

NSI189 has continued to be effective. The only antidepressant that has ever given any sort of relief including the all heralded ketamine. I after the NSI189 I went all in tweaking meds and made a ton more progress. Psych meds never had good effects and NSI189 gave a really good baseline to start adding more meds to. Cognitively I have never been sharper, or better socially. My abilities in the mental side of things like sports have improved drastically, that is a real tangible effect when you notice yourself being on of the worst players to a fairly solid player. Other real tanglible effects are I could never concentrate to play computer games (I can play a couple now, my attention span still isn't great).

I have been able to get a part-time lifestyle while before NSI189 I essentially did nothing and slept. I have tried but haven't been able to reach full-time. Full-time seems truly out of reach. Part-time with school was impossible.

 

At this point, I have just really had no ideas to improve upon what I already have thanks to the NSI189. So the general feelings of hope and 'anything is possible' has waned in the past 6 months. A time which correspond with the winter that I hate. My treatment has hit a standstill, NSI 189 is great but I have core issues like cycling mood, and sleep problems. I never expected it to help.

I feel I need more consistency and need to have more energy each day. I need to avoid days of 18 hours sleep 18 hours, followed by days sleep 4-5 hours. Somedays have the most miserable ass day at parttime job, try to avoid people and go home and sleep. Other days, tons of energy, have a good time at work, still a social disaster but at least trying come home and pursue hobbies.

I guess in short it hasn't been a magic bullet, and I am a little frustrated and still want more out of my medications. I am not the type to settle and be grateful for what I have. Just really short on ideas which has brought down my mood lately not lessening effects of tthe NSI.
---

I have mostly taken 40mg the entire time... during the early months while taking it I only took 20mg and realized some benefits anyhow and now I am taking 50mg although I cannot say definitively that it has been any different than 40mg.

Side effects: has negative effects on sleep so I take in the morning, it possibly has some immediate sort of subtle cognitive effects which I wouldn't call positive but in the grand scheme are mild (not like seroquel or lyrica or anything serious) and are also hard to discribe.

--

The meds I added after starting NSI189 were lithium, lamotrigine, sleep meds (clonazepam, lorazepam) those are the big players.  

--

Sorry if my sentence structures have become nightmares I am not rereading

Edited by drg, 23 March 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Strangelove]

 

would a shill send out free samples?

 

Would a marketeer engage in marketing ?

 

hmmm.. that's a tough one.

 

 

How exactly do you mean, giving free NSI-189 for a trial, marketing? If you mean it, by possibly having a good experience from NSI-189, and possibly write about it, this does not sound bad from your position. You said in another thread before that people can get their hopes up and then dissapointed from a drug, I can understand this in other life experiences, but I never get in that state of mind with a drug. There are hundreds of chemicals to try, you can give NSI-189 a trial, and if does not work for you, you just go to the next drug, supplement, nootropic, even RCs can have value in a functional (and not just a hedonic) sense.

 

I am not sure I am a very good "marketer" as in the last year, the number of people that followed this thread increased by only thirty-forty members. Although would be useful for others, I have not write in any depression threads praising the benefits of NSI-189, having write my own experience very briefly, and low level, considering the benefits I am getting. If I am marketing NSI-189, what you can say about MizTen and her really great posts? I believe decided to try NSI-189 after one of her posts. Even when I do not actively inform other members for the benefits of NSI-189, I think many that have decided to try it in the last months, because would see this thread appearing again and again, one of the reasons is that again NSI-189 is easily accessible.

 

I have shipped free NSI-189 to anyone that contact me, that either appeared being in a bad financial situation, or not having an easy way to transfer money for a small trial amount, you are not the first I offered to do this for.

[DSTiamat]

100% agree with the above. I got my stuff from Mr. Strangelove even before paying, got more than I payed for. Also , he was really helpful ( and I mean here regarding my problems, not NSI), some nice advice in there also. So, why not give the FREE trial  a try? I can only greatly respect the guys which are doing this , for many of us (sick of pharma and doctors which do more bad than good) it was really the only real help we got in YEARS. If all the people which are feeling better now after NSI would reply to this thread (problem is that people that are feeling good start to live the life they missed for so long and tend to not post much feedback), you would be surprised of the great improvement that these kind of guys are bringing to the lifes of so many of us.Just try it, come back and report.
DST

[jaiho]

NSI-189 Binding profile has been released.

 

http://investor.neur...esentation+.pdf

 

NSI-189 Binding Activities ≥ 50% at 10µM

 

Dopamine Transporter (h) 14.2

Norepinephrine Transporter (h) 1.1

5-HT Transporter (h) >30

5-HT3 Receptor 2.1

5-HT7 Receptor (h) 11.1

Opioid mu Receptor (h) 15.7

Opioid delta 1 Receptor 12.7

 

Very interesting.