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NSI-189

nsi-189

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#4051 goodburner

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 02:14 AM

Ive been taking flouxetine 20mg for the past 6 months and had a bad time with Wellbutrin which i had to stop because it made me anxious and more depressed, id like to know if i should stop flouxetine when starting with nsi 189,

as much as I like the reviews, flouxetine has helped me tremendously, I am no longer a wussy social wreck and I'm finding the notion of having to give it up not pleasant. Im aware that flouxetine inhibits certain liver enzymes leading to high levels of drugs that use the same pathway, probably what caused my anxiety with bupropion,

Does anyone know if nsi uses the same pathway for breakdown ? I read somewhere that it is a very very potent norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor which if combined with not being metabolized properly due to flouxetine might make it even worse,

I don't want to gauge the effects of nsi when withdrawing from flouxetine

I'd like to know if

A) switch flouexetine with some other ssri that does not inhibit liver enyzymes might be useful ? Im thinking about lexapro / citalopram

B) nsi does not use the same pathway as floux and i wont need to stop anything ?

 

 

EDIT : Flouexetine has almost jumped the shark for me anyway, I'm a better person but the anhedonia still persists. I'm looking for Escitalopram as an alternate to prozac and NSI 189 experimentally. Question is, can i switch to Lexapro from Flouexetine cold turkey when also starting NSI 189 in maybe 5-6 days if I get the package


Edited by goodburner, 18 April 2016 - 02:39 AM.


#4052 Valijon

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:28 AM

Nsi-189 looks like a serious heavy hitter in the Nootropics market. What other products are people using in conjunction with it? I'm new to the latest in Nootropics and I've seen a couple people post about tianeptien with nsi-189. Is tianeptien worth using with this product? Does one cancel or compliment the other? Results using tianeptien seem mixed. Not so with nsi-189.

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#4053 goodburner

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 09:56 AM

    i have seen people using it with Noopept mostly, personally I'd try to see what effect NSI has by itself before trying to add other substances.

 I'm not able to remove flouxetine from my stack though, I hope they dont have too much interactions, with RCs theres only so much you can do, you have to accept that your a guinea pig.

If someone knew how NSI is metabolized it'd be very helpful, I'm not able to find anything yet


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#4054 jaiho

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 12:02 PM

28 days into NSI-189.

Music sounds so much better. Enjoying gaming more so. But my mood still isn't as good as previous cycles, and somewhat anti social.

Probably going to need to augment something.

 

 


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#4055 goodburner

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 01:31 PM

Can you tell me what dose your taking pleaSE? I have similar issues with some games that I used to enjoy immensely suddenly becoming too revolting to even start, even the idea of starting them amkes me sad, for whatever reason, all this happened in a span of less than a year. I'm taking about games that I've played almost 600+ hours of  suddenly becoming extremely boring. I don't know what popped in my brain but I'm really glad to know that your issues are improving with NSI. I look forward to that, hopefully.



#4056 obliviron

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:16 PM

Can you tell me what dose your taking pleaSE? I have similar issues with some games that I used to enjoy immensely suddenly becoming too revolting to even start, even the idea of starting them amkes me sad, for whatever reason, all this happened in a span of less than a year. I'm taking about games that I've played almost 600+ hours of  suddenly becoming extremely boring. I don't know what popped in my brain but I'm really glad to know that your issues are improving with NSI. I look forward to that, hopefully.

 

Maybe your brain is going in a good direction? I know I am addicted to games and if this happened to me I would be exstatic. Not saying it's a problem for you but it is something to think about.

 

By the way, about 3 weeks in, having great effects. I am concerned what the trade-offs are for this drug, but so far no negative effects that I'm aware of.

Positives:

 

-I can deal with my emotions more maturely

-More empathy at times

-I have more clarity in my senses

-Distinct and noticeably improved memory

-Remember old stuff

-Making better behavioural choices

-Less fear of failing

 

HOWEVER, I did have some side-effects, but not necessarily negative side-effects. Just unusual events with the drug:

 

-Headaches. Front, top left, small area of my brain from my perspective. It would usually last a couple of minutes, but reoccurs over and over again. Happened for the first 2 weeks or so, I do not get it anymore.

-Extreme tiredness. I would wake up refreshed, dose, and 1 hour later be exhausted again. Really interesting. This happened for the first 1.5 - 2 weeks, and is no longer happening.

-I would notice my mental habits rearranging themselves. For example walking or my attitude. Whenever I was aware of that I was also aware of them changing to become more complex. Possibly placebo? Usually I am not aware of these habits - I reckon they changed and because of that I became more aware of them.

 

Those are the symptoms I've experienced. In general, It's been good so far and I'm going to stop at day 28 or whenever my 1gram runs out.

 

What I am really worried about is what sort of cost does this drug have on the unnoticable level? What systems am I interrupting to produce more neurons? Is it worth it? I hope so!


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#4057 pheanix997

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:20 PM

Goodburner,

I remember that feeling when I was addicted to gaming as a teen. I especially remember that feeling when I beat Halo for the first time. The game was so novel and exciting when I first started playing, it was like a love affair, LOL! But then when I played it to death and beat the game, the novelty and excitement wore off and I felt depressed, probably mourning a sense of loss I was experiencing, that something so cool could becomimg so effin boring!
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#4058 MizTen

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 05:53 AM

Anyone who has quit NSI-189 for some period of time:   did you get any withdrawal symptoms?

 

Any cravings for it?    The mu-opioid agonism is kinda worrisome to me.

 

I have to say, I feel really upbeat on this stuff (though with a bit of a mood crash in the afternoon).  Hope it continues.  I've been on it less than a week, though.  I know 6-weeks is the min. for AD action really.   Not to confound things, I'm tapering off my nortriptyline.   The only thing I plan on stacking the NSI with is deplin.  Gotta feed dem hangry babby neeerons

 

It's been awhile since I've used it. But no cravings or anything like that. I think it's probably helpful to do another round or two every year or so.


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#4059 MizTen

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Posted 19 April 2016 - 06:01 AM

Does anybody see a problem with the occasional (2-3 days/week) concomitant use of NSI-189 along with modafinil/armodafinil? 

 

I don't. But you still need to take care of your body: hydration, rest, correct food, etc. Modafinil is stronger than people realize.



#4060 irony

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 12:15 AM

couple more observations w/ 30mg FB SL BID (almost 2 weeks now):

 

  • A nasty, hopeless depression hits me about 3pm and lasts about an hour or 2.   Then it's completely gone.   I don't experience anything like this while not taking drugs.  This has been consistently happening the past 3 or 4 days and each day it gets worse in intensity.   Maybe I'll try a little booster dose in the afternoon.
  • My presbyopia (age-related bad vision from the lens getting inelastic) seems to be getting slightly better.  (? ? ? ?)


#4061 StickyBits

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 02:03 AM

I just joined this forum the other day, so I hope I'm not coming off as too much of a noob... but, I have a question.  Having read much (but not all) of this 136 page thread, I definitely know a lot more about NSI-189 (and a few other noots) than I did before I started, but I have a few questions.

 

But, first a little background that may help put everything in context...

 

I'm a 40-something year old guy who has been depressed for much, if not all, of my life.  Even as a kid, I was pretty melancholy for the most part, although I do remember having a lot more "zest" for life in my teens and early 20's.  I would go through periods of deep depression (sometimes lasting for months to years) if something bad happened, such as a loss of job or girlfriend or whatever, and in those cases I'd usually go to the doctor and get on some antidepressants to get me through the rough time.  So, I've been on Prozac mainly, which made me pretty emotionless and made me completely lose my sex drive, but it kept me from jumping off a bridge so I can't complain much.  Then, one time a doctor put me on Wellbutrin, which made me go into a week-long panic attack before I made him prescribe something else for me (and can't remember what).  Since I don't like taking pharmaceuticals long term, I usually ween myself off after six months to a year, and just go back to my somewhat "normal" melancholy self.

 

My self-diagnosed ADD (not ADHD) is either a separate issue, or related to the depression.  Not sure, but I have definitely heard of ADD and depression go hand-in-hand pretty frequently.  The ADD, however, I have learned to overcome for the most part... it just takes a lot of goal-setting, will-power, and kicking my own ass to focus and get things done, but I can usually get them done if I set my mind to it.  It might just take me twice as long as a normal person.

 

On top of all that, for the last 5 years or so, I have been suffering from pretty bad brain fog and even MORE lack of focus than before.  Some days, it was so bad I could barely form complete sentences and was beginning to wonder if I had the early stages of Alzheimer or dementia.  I'm sure people thought I was an idiot, and I learned to try to just keep my mouth shut whenever possible.  I went to the doctor to have my hormone levels checked, and everything came back in the normal range.  The doctor said that I was probably depressed... and I said, "Listen Doc, I respect your judgement, but I don't want to go on antidepressants again," and that was pretty much the end of the conversation and he said there is nothing else he could do.

 

Aside from that, I am pretty healthy.  My diet is also pretty clean for the most part, although like most Americans, I do enjoy some junk food on occasion.  I hit the gym about twice a week, sometimes more.  The reason I mention this is explain that I don't think diet and lack of exercise is the problem.

 

I will say that I tried Pramiracetam for the first time last month, and it was awesome.  I took anywhere from 600 to 900 mg of the Pramiracetam, along with Alpha-GPC and high-quality fish oil.  It wasn't dramatic, but definitely noticeable.  My verbal fluency was certainly enhanced.  The correct words just seemed to be there when I needed them, and I was able to explain things to people MUCH better than I ever remember.  I'm not too keen on the price, however, and I have ordered some Oxiracetam with the hopes that it can do something similar.  Any thoughts on this?

 

My main question is, do you think that NSI-189 is something that would help someone like me?  Maybe there is someone out there who can say, "Your background sounds a lot like mine, and NSI-189 changed my life!"  If NSI-189 is not the right choice for me, can someone give me some suggestions on what to research?  I think this forum is an invaluable resource, and I'm glad it exists.  Thanks for reading all the way through.  I really appreciate you guys and gals.

 

 


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#4062 YOLF

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 04:22 AM

This post was removed at the request of the poster as the information contained was incorrect - Moderation

 

(for this unfamiliar with Ki binding affinities (and IC50), the lower the value means a higher affinity which means a higher chance for bonding.)

 

The first thing that really stands out is the Norepi Transport (NET) affinities.   NSI-189 apparently strongly blockades norepi reuptake.  For comparison, the TCA desipramine is one of the most potent NET binders, and its IC50 for NET is 12.   NSI is much stronger than desipramine.  (pure NET actors like Strattera usually make people anxious.  desipramine makes me anxious AF).

 

Prozac has an affinity of 25 for SERT (5-HT transport), Paxil 1.1.   So NSI-189 has some weakish SSRI effect, if any.  (what does >30 mean?)

 

 


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#4063 jaiho

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 04:23 AM

Noone can tell you if it will work for you, stickybits.

Same with any other drug. You just have to try it and see what happens after a month of daily dosing.

 

The great thing about NSI-189 though, it's one of the few anti depressants thats free of side effects. You might get some mild symptoms early on, and it has no withdrawal. So give it a shot.


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#4064 irony

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 01:34 AM

 

 

EDIT : Flouexetine has almost jumped the shark for me anyway, I'm a better person but the anhedonia still persists. I'm looking for Escitalopram as an alternate to prozac and NSI 189 experimentally. Question is, can i switch to Lexapro from Flouexetine cold turkey when also starting NSI 189 in maybe 5-6 days if I get the package

 

 

I've switched SSRIs with no problem (my doc recommends when trying to come off of an SSRI with nasty withdrawal like paxil to just switch to something with a long half life like prozac).

 

Anyway, since prozac has a really long half life, you might want to taper down the prozac for a couple of days and then one day just switch to the lexapro.


Edited by irony, 22 April 2016 - 01:35 AM.

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#4065 Raman

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 02:06 PM

About two weeks ago I received my NSI from Strangelove. Shipping was very fast and everything was very straightforward - thank you Strangelove.

 

I'd like to give NSI 189 a big two thumbs up, since it started kicking in about three days ago :-D . My depression seems to be lifting and I find myself ruminating far less than I used to just a week ago.

 

Dosage:

I started on 40 mg a day but then dropped to 20 mg once the side effects became too much. I take the NSI 189 sublingually.

 

Side Effects:

  • The biggest side effect for me has been extreme drowsiness. This side effect appears to have lessened slightly but is still pretty apparent. Dropping to 20 mg has lessened this side effect to an acceptable level. The main benefit from this is greatly improved sleep quality.
  • Improved vision: My vision is pretty poor and blurry (likely a side effect from one of the other medications that I'm on), so any improvement here is welcome. If my vision wasn't blurry already I could see why some people would call it HD vision.
  • Dreams are very vivid. I actually remember some of my dreams now.
  • The occasional headache (I never get headaches usually)
  • Taste: From what I've read, the freebase should be tasteless. However, I've found the taste to be pretty gross. It seems to be okay as long as I don't let it touch the top of my tongue. I've kind of gotten used to the taste now, so it isn't a big deal.

 

Drug Interactions: So far I've had no problems taking NSI 189 with this cocktail of medications: Effexor XR, Wellbutrin XL, Namenda XR (memantine), Abilify and dextroamphetamine

 

 


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#4066 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:45 PM

Four weeks after trying NSI one time (5 mg) and I've still got troubling residual effects. I can't handle ANY caffeine or l-theanine, or anything with calcium added (natural calcium from say yogurt seems fine, but drinking coconut milk with calcium added sets me off).

Symptoms are the same as before, headache, confusion, labored breathing, low body temp, and cold hand especially my right hand. If I avoid the things that set it off, I seem to be okay. Hoping this gets better soon.



#4067 jaybird10 2

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:52 PM

What supplements and drugs were you on at the time you tried nsi?

#4068 jaybird10 2

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:56 PM

Four weeks after trying NSI one time (5 mg) and I've still got troubling residual effects. I can't handle ANY caffeine or l-theanine, or anything with calcium added (natural calcium from say yogurt seems fine, but drinking coconut milk with calcium added sets me off).

Symptoms are the same as before, headache, confusion, labored breathing, low body temp, and cold hand especially my right hand. If I avoid the things that set it off, I seem to be okay. Hoping this gets better soon.


What supplements and drugs were you taking at the time?

#4069 Valijon

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:57 PM

Anyone else suffering side effects like omega 3 snake oil? What was NSI-189 taken in conjunction with Omega? Do you have any neurological disorders this may have antagonized?

#4070 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 03:57 PM

selegiline, 1.25 mg every other day. ALCAR 200 mg a day though I had stopped just prior. L-theanine 50 mg a day. Had been on low dose naltrexone for four months 4.5 mg but I had stopped a few weeks prior.

Lots of antibiotics for Lyme. Various vitamins and herbs, too many to list really.



#4071 Omega 3 Snake Oil

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:00 PM

I don't have any specific neuro illness that has been diagnosed, though I have had Lyme for I think several years and this has caused a lot of neuro type symptoms, inc. HPA dysfunction and resulting insomnia.



#4072 Valijon

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:02 PM

Oh, your suffering from Lyme disease. I'm horribly sorry to hear this. That's the big problem with research chemicals. We don't know what drug drug interactions might cause problems. Same with other conditions.
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#4073 jaybird10 2

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:05 PM

There were a few serious negative side effects that I saw on this thread where it took a few months to see improvementand subside
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#4074 Valijon

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:07 PM

Jaybird, I missed those somehow. Can you please elaborate?

#4075 jaybird10 2

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:27 PM

I believe 2 people developed peripheral neuropathy like side effects. I think in both cases side effects lessoned and subsided over 3 to 6 months. It was earlier on in the thread I thiink the names were Jefferson and Stillwater.
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#4076 Valijon

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:09 PM

This is somewhat worrisome. I'm always hyper about extreme side effects. Especially anything with the potential to be long term.

Has anyone seen an improvement in math ability?

#4077 Strangelove

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:24 PM

 
 

 

  • Taste: From what I've read, the freebase should be tasteless. However, I've found the taste to be pretty gross. It seems to be okay as long as I don't let it touch the top of my tongue. I've kind of gotten used to the taste now, so it isn't a big deal.

Freebase is not tasteless, is much less bitter compared to phosphate. NSI-189 freebase although not tasteless is much better sublingualy than most nootropics discussed in Longecity. Been much less bitter than phosphate and more agreeable than other nootropics there is a confusion that does not have a taste at all.



#4078 Strangelove

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:36 PM

From my experience NSI-189 except from the central nervous system stimulates the peripheral nervous system as well. Peripheral symptoms are extremely rare, and can be both positive and negative. Reading the whole thread again, I found the post below yesterday, there are a couple other positive experiences, and four negative. I tried to be careful with Omega3 snake oil, starting with a lower dose, but if you have any nerve related issues be careful with NSI-189.

 

Anybody experienced any benefits on ligaments ? i felt that my reconstructed knee and hernias were healed/improved on this....

 

I have written about this before. 

 

I believe if you have damaged nerves, with the extra stimulation from the NSI-189, you can get pain or other nerve related side effects, its really rare though... Four people with me included from everything I have read.

 

I do not think that does damage on its own, and in one case (I think was MizTen) reported initial side effects and an improvement as time went by in some old damaged nerves.

 

My own experience was getting eyelid twitches somewhat connected with NSI-189 dosing, the weird part was that started two months after I started and was getting worst when the dose was wearing off. I connected the eye twitches from nerve overstimulation as I was (mistakenly) sleeping on top of a simple magnetic stimulating unit used to deepen my sleep. 

 

An overstimulated or damaged nerve can get extra stimulation from NSI-189 giving (more) side-effects, this is from my own experience I described some months ago in the main NSI-189 thread, from MizTen's experience and from the guy that got extra pain on his shoulder on the same spot he had an old accident.


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#4079 jaybird10 2

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 09:22 PM

Strangelove,

How many people would you estimate have used or are using nsi-189 since this thread started. Im curious to know out of how many users their were 4 serious nerve related side effects.

Edited by jaybird10 2, 24 April 2016 - 09:24 PM.


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#4080 goodburner

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 02:23 PM

Just got my NSI 189 in a neat little package from halfway around the world, came with a scoop, quickly emptied it and took a dose (probably 20 mg), it was very bitter and had my mouth numbed for a few minutes, like Lignocaine or something, I plan to keep a journal of my experience with this novel AD here, if I can. Will update as the days go by







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