6219 replies to this topic

[pheanix997]

 

Borderline (yes, BPD is such a disorder - read up on the newest data)

Could you elaborate. Aside from the obvious about why BPD leads to depression, what new data are you referring to ?

 

Thanks !

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

Borderline (yes, BPD is such a disorder - read up on the newest data)

Could you elaborate. Aside from the obvious about why BPD leads to depression, what new data are you referring to ?

 

Thanks !

 

 

Well, I was mainly referring to the fact that BPD is a neuropsychiatric disorder* , instead of the old model currently in effect - that it's strictly an acquired set of traits - a personality disorder.

 

That's incorrect - BPD is almost fully proven to be a disorder of mostly genetic and neuro-anatomical nature. You're born with the disorder, but the symptoms isn't necessarily readily visible until a certain age.

 

Here, check out my prototypical paper on the subject, and judge for yourself if a redefinition of the disease is in its order:

 

 

Disturbances in the Cholinergic system in Borderline Personality Disorder - possible avenues of treatment, and a plea for a change of ethiology and name

 

1. fMRI studies prove that BPD is a neuropsychiatric disorder - suspected pathology is a faulty Fronto-amygdal loop. (compare to ADHD: Fronto-Striatal, or SCT: Fronto-Parietal)

 

2. Study proves that BPD-ers have abnormally high choline-production.

 

3. Another study shows that the Alpha-7-nicotinic acetylcholine receptor is a very important site in the Amygdala - controlling outward traffic to other networks. (like the PFC!)

 

4. The effects of Alpha-7 modulating compounds like Memantine and Lithium is found.

 

5. Piracetam reports of effects on BPD is found.

 

6. aCh-modulation hypothesis is born - combining knowledge from several sources! It ties everything together nicely...

References:

------------------- PFC and Amygdala:

 

 

Borderline personality disorder is a heritable brain disease

http://www.mdedge.co...order-heritable

 

Brain structure and function in borderline personality disorder
http://link.springer...0429-012-0379-4

 

Orbital frontal and amygdala volume reductions in obsessive-compulsive disorder.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/10530633

 

Evidence of abnormal amygdala functioning in borderline personality disorder: a functional MRI study.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/11522264

 

Amygdala-prefrontal disconnection in borderline personality disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17203018

 

Neural Correlates of Disturbed Emotion Processing in Borderline Personality Disorder: A Multimodal Meta-Analysis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25935068

 

Behavioral Inhibition System activity is associated with increased amygdala and hippocampal gray matter volume: A voxel-based morphometry study

http://www.sciencedi...05381190600797X

 

Acetylcholine connection:

 

Aberrant DNA Methylation of rDNA and PRIMA1 in Borderline Personality Disorder

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC4730312/

 

 

α7-Containing nicotinic acetylcholine receptors on interneurons of the basolateral amygdala and their role in the regulation of the network excitability.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24004528

 

Depressive response to physostigmine challenge in borderline personality disorder patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9326751

 

Possible varenicline-induced paranoia and irritability in a patient with major depressive disorder, borderline personality disorder, and methamphetamine abuse in remission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19011454

 

Possible connection between aCh and NAA

Neurochemical alterations associated with borderline personality disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/25817526

 

Basal forebrain moderates the magnitude of task-dependent amygdala functional connectivity

http://europepmc.org...cles/pmc4381234

 

N-Acetylaspartate in the CNS: From Neurodiagnostics to Neurobiology

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1919520/

 

Fluctuations in Acetylcholine-levels as a result of fluctuations in sex-hormones

 

Dietary choline requirements of women: effects of estrogen and genetic variation1,2,3

http://ajcn.nutritio.../92/5/1113.full

 

Menstrual cycle-related brain metabolite changes using 1H magnetic resonance spectroscopy in premenopausal women: a pilot study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11231099

 

 

 

The Alpha-7-receptors role as primarily a behavioural regulator, and not of peripheral activity:

Alpha7-nicotinic acetylcholine receptor subunit is not required for parasympathetic control of the heart in the mouse.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15797970

 

Role of central nicotinic and beta-adrenergic receptors in the onset and further development of tail-tremor induced by repeated nicotine administration to rats.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9151294

 

Evidence of Piracetam, a modulator of the Cholinergic system for the treatment of excessive emotionality.

 

Double-blind, placebo-controlled trial on the effect of piracetam on breath-holding spells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22302459

 

Anecdotal evidence from self-professed sufferers of BPD regarding the effects of Piracetam on the disease:

 

http://be-a-betterma...brain-drug.html

"My wife who has Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), finds that Piracetam helps her tremendously. It helps keep her wild mood swings and perceptions under control."

 

https://www.reddit.c...tam_kicking_in/

"Immediately. When I first took piracetam I didn't notice anything, but that was before I had anxiety/borderline issues... piracetam was sort of a last ditch effort since I had it on my shelf, really helped me get back on track!

edit I take ~800mg when I need it now, been having good luck with other stuff though like L-phenylalanine"

 

http://nootriment.co...for-depression/

“When I started to use Piracetam, I noticed some stimulating effects like increased mental and physical activity, decreased fatigue and trouble sleeping. Later on my severe mood swings (because of BPD), impulsivity and inadequate behavior started to disappear. I became more active, very productive, no more sluggish in the morning, positive and noticed that depressive symptoms are gone. – Parapsychiatrist"

 

http://www.depressio...total-recovery/

"I'd like to share my experiences and thoughts what could have caused my recovery (from bipolar, insomnia and severe manifestation of bpd)

Piracetam course was supposed to last only month, but because of such 'magical' effects, my doctor allowed me to continue using it."

 

http://forum.bodybui...d.php?t=5185783

"I've shown symptoms ranging from bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, ADD, depression and obsessive compulsive disorder.

Well odd thing is that when I cut back on the choline bitartrate, I actually started to feel better. - Random907"

 

Potential candidates for treatment: novel antidepressants with Alpha-7-nicotinic antagonistic properties

 

HNK and DNK

Sub-anesthetic concentrations of (R,S)-ketamine metabolites inhibit acetylcholine-evoked currents in α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3534778/

 

 

 

 

As for BPD-ers being depressed, well, that's common health-care knowledge! They're at the top of the suicide-numbers, sadly.
 

 

*I just realized that I've been using Scandinavian definitions, and as such, what I should REALLY be saying, is "Neurodevelopmental Disorder"

 

http://dsm.psychiatr...890425596.dsm01

 

 

References:

-------------------

Borderline Personality Disorder

http://focus.psychia...journalCode=foc

[pheanix997]

 

 

 

Well, I was mainly referring to the fact that BPD is a neuropsychiatric disorder* , instead of the old model currently in effect - that it's strictly an acquired set of traits - a personality disorder.

 

That's incorrect - BPD is almost fully proven to be a disorder of mostly genetic and neuro-anatomical nature. You're born with the disorder, but the symptoms isn't necessarily readily visible until a certain age.

 

Here, check out my prototypical paper on the subject, and judge for yourself if a redefinition of the disease is in its order:

 

Thanks for the info !

I think it has a strong genetic component but it's also strongly developmental. Borderline is a disorder of emotional regulation and impulse control, among other symptoms. Both of these core problems could be avoided in development with an attuned mother-infant emotional symbiotic system, with good enough loving attachment and good enough support to separate and exercise independent behaviours. When attachment is erratic or support for independent functioning is not supported or actively punished, and on top of that the child is not soothed when emotionally frustrated in these severely traumatizing areas, BPD would likely result. Neurological changes to the young child's developing brain would also result - doesn't mean the problem is genetic though, just means it's biological. 

I do agree though that borderline comes with genetic and neurological defects.... however are these defects present because they are inherent to borderline, or just along for the evolutionary ride?
 

Personally, I think all personality disorders are borderline functioning. Healthier versions of each personality are considered more neurotic or as personalty "styles" in the case of normal functioning. But getting diagnosed with a personality disorder is basically synonymous with emotional dysregulation. Classically the borderline term however was used for people, mostly women, with dependent personality style at the borderline, or personality disorder, range of functioning. But of course we all know dependent people who aren't borderline, etc. And I've yet to hear of anyone with a personality disorder who wasn't traumatized in early childhood in one way or another in a similar way to how people with BPD are traumatized. With that said, you could have a borderline narcissist (Narc. personality disorder) where the lack of empathy is crude and gross and the aggression toward others less contained, or a neurotic narcissistic, or a person who is relatively normal but with a narcissistic bent to their personality whose empathy is much more in-tact and whose aggression is much better contained and channelled into socially productive ways, i.e. healthy assertive behaviour. 

Edited by pheanix997, 27 December 2016 - 03:49 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

 

 

Well, I was mainly referring to the fact that BPD is a neuropsychiatric disorder* , instead of the old model currently in effect - that it's strictly an acquired set of traits - a personality disorder.

 

That's incorrect - BPD is almost fully proven to be a disorder of mostly genetic and neuro-anatomical nature. You're born with the disorder, but the symptoms isn't necessarily readily visible until a certain age.

 

Here, check out my prototypical paper on the subject, and judge for yourself if a redefinition of the disease is in its order:

 

Thanks for the info !

I think it has a strong genetic component but it's also strongly developmental. Borderline is a disorder of emotional regulation and impulse control, among other symptoms. Both of these core problems could be avoided in development with an attuned mother-infant emotional symbiotic system, with good enough loving attachment and good enough support to separate and exercise independent behaviours. When attachment is erratic or support for independent functioning is not supported or actively punished, and on top of that the child is not soothed when emotionally frustrated in these severely traumatizing areas, BPD would likely result. Neurological changes to the young child's developing brain would also result - doesn't mean the problem is genetic though, just means it's biological. 

I do agree though that borderline comes with genetic and neurological defects.... however are these defects present because they are inherent to borderline, or just along for the evolutionary ride?
 

Personally, I think all personality disorders are borderline functioning. Healthier versions of each personality are considered more neurotic or as personalty "styles" in the case of normal functioning. But getting diagnosed with a personality disorder is basically synonymous with emotional dysregulation. Classically the borderline term however was used for people, mostly women, with dependent personality style at the borderline, or personality disorder, range of functioning. But of course we all know dependent people who aren't borderline, etc. And I've yet to hear of anyone with a personality disorder who wasn't traumatized in early childhood in one way or another in a similar way to how people with BPD are traumatized. With that said, you could have a borderline narcissist (Narc. personality disorder) where the lack of empathy is crude and gross and the aggression toward others less contained, or a neurotic narcissistic, or a person who is relatively normal but with a narcissistic bent to their personality whose empathy is much more in-tact and whose aggression is much better contained and channelled into socially productive ways, i.e. healthy assertive behaviour. 

 

 

No prob's', glad to see an interest in the evolution of the classification of the disorder.

I'm sure an upbringing with less trauma and a more functional parental situation can help Borderliners, but I'm not sure it will help them any more than it would help anyone else.

 

The reason why there's a growing movement to look at BPD as something more like ADHD or Autism (it shares behavioural traits with both - sometimes making it hard to tell what's what, even) is because there's a significant portion of the patients whom don't HAVE such dysfunctional family history, or extreme trauma (i.e WAR!) to explain their symptoms - nothing bad ever happened to them! Yet they still fit the diagnosis, they still can't control their emotions...

 

There are several references in my paper which brings up this, among them was a call from about 30 different Dr's, treating these patients, which called out for reclassification, because they were finding these patterns: chief among them, was that the frontal lobe is physically altered in a way so dramatic, that really, the only thing similar, is ADHD! : O

 

A researcher called Pedrag Petrovic is one of the people calling out for this, and he actually wants to reclassify it as another form of ADHD - ADHD-ED - of predominantly Emotional Dysregulation.

I personally think that's a MISTAKE though - because as far as I can tell, ADHD is a dopaminerg disease, and BPD is Acetacholinergic - two completely different systems, and the physical brain-abnormalities aren't identical - they're just similar.

 

Grouping BPD-ers, or as I would like to call them - *EDD*-ers (Emotional Dysregulation Disorder) with ADHD-ers will NOT lead to anything good, just how grouping us SCT-ers with ADHD-ers didn't amount to anything good either.

 

Still, I suppose it's, aggravatingly, too early to say anything definitive yet - perhaps there's only a sub-set of BPD-ers who would fit a diagnosis for a new form of Neurodevelopmental Disorder - but, if that does end up being the case, then these people really need to get better treatment - because then, no amount of psychology-sessions is going to heal them - just like no amount of psychology-sessions will help anyone with Schizophrenia or Autism - it's just the way they're wired - emotions amped up to 11, to the very breaking-point.

 

Small note - if some people are born with the disorder and the heritability is similar to ADHD, and SCT, well... then these people WILL have childhood-trauma, because then one of their parents WILL have the disorder, and it's a known fact that BPD-ers traumatize their children - that's just a fact, whether any of us wants to admit it or not, that's how the coin falls.

[Hyperflux]

Do you guys advise the phosphate or freebase when starting out for the first time? I am considering freebase because I've been having digestive issues due to hiatal hernia lately, so I think sublingual absorption would be better. Also, it's best to start with 20mg and then continue to 40mg if side effects are tolerable right?

[bugsbunny]

NSI 189 is target pacific, if your depression isn't caused in the hippocampus you might not get results.

Please keep in mind how many causes of depression their are and how NSI-189 wouldn't necessary do much to help someone suffering from heavy metal poisoning spawned depression as one example of many possibilities.

Thats the crux. Without a neurologist it will be impossible to find out what causes your depression, there are so many variables that turn the thing into roulette. If i assume that i got a hippocampus that is to big the effects are not enjoyable, because it adds at least in my case memories that are to intense to face in everydays life. I can remember more, but it doesnt feel 100% natural now. I dont want to remember a trivial scene again and again.

[bugsbunny]

"Disturbances in the Cholinergic system in Borderline Personality Disorder - possible avenues of treatment, and a plea for a change of ethiology and name"

 

Coluracetam is said to change the cholingergic system longterm. That compound might be interesting in that case.

[bugsbunny]

Right, I'm back on NSI-189, just trialled two days worth of 20 mg per day, and today is the first day of trialling 20 mg x2 per day = 40 mg per day.

 

It'll be a short trial though, because I only have Modafinil worth of 4 days, and without it, I'll definitely go really tired or more anxious.

 

 

Stack:

 

NSI-189 - 40 mg

Modafinil - 150 mg

 

Omega-3 EPA - 930 mg

Omega-3 DHA - 660 mg

 

Zink-Citrate - 30 mg (elemental)

Magnesium Citrate - 60 mg

Magnesium Lactate - 3000 mg

(360 mg elemental in total)

 

 

 

 

Maybe not directly, but i thought they will sonner or later shrink your hippocampus.

Agreed but fixing the hippocampus without fixing the cuasing coefactor is the equivalent of bailing water from a sinking ship, if you can't stop the source the NSI-189 is nothing more then a stop gap messure.

Just my opinion, but one must address the cause and repair the damage simultaneously, in order to fix resistant cases of depression almost more times then not. If long lasting postive results are to be expected in the outcome of the patient's own treatment,then people must stop thinking so one dimensional about depression.

 

 

You forgot one of THE biggest reasons for getting depression:

Neuropsychiatric disorder.

 

You can get depressed in the modern world, EASILY, if you have alterations to your basic neural circuitry, altering your environmental response. Society is built to fit the majority, so if you deviate from the expected behavioural norm, you're going to get into trouble.

 

Depending on your environment, and the severity of your disorder, then ALL of these disorders will make you depressed in the long run:

 

Autism

ADHD

SCT

Borderline (yes, BPD is such a disorder - read up on the newest data)

Dyscalculia

Dyslexia
Schizoid Personality Disorder (WHY is this called a PD?? We KNOW it's a form of Schizo! Jesus...)

Schizotypal Personality Disorder (AGAIN... WHY hold on to the old PD-label?? IDIOTIC!!)

Idiopathic Hypersomnia (narcolepsy 'lite')

 

 

Let's say at least 25% of those people will eventually be struck by some form of depression as a result of extreme environmental pressure - then, my friend, you will end up with a significant proportion of all people seeking help for depressive symptoms, and being put on antidepressants.

 

Coming back to what you said about treating the underlying causes, ADHD is a great example here - As you're probably aware, traditional stimulants have FAILED to meet the end-point results in many, many AD-trials - BUT...! Not so when it comes to ADHD-ers - all of a sudden, compounds which usually cause depressive symptoms in the long run, and SIGNIFICANT anxiogenic symptoms, are all of a sudden anti-depressive and anxiolytic! The improvement to an ADHD-ers mood is often dramatic, following the start of treatment with Stimulant-therapy.

 

 

So yes, I definitely agree with treating the underlying causes - however, there's another aspect to this - sometimes a depressed patient is so badly ravaged, so far gone, that for him or the Dr's to try and find the underlying cause is simply not feasible - one MUST begin by draining all of that water from the ship, or it'll sink in a matter of minutes!

 

Hence, one goes on an antidepressant, which gives the patient the ability to start pondering exactly why the patient is actually so ill.

There is a theory that all the mentioned diseases are caused by environmental influences that flip the switch in the genetics to trigger mental illness. So it might be 50% DNA 50% enviromental influences that start in the womb. Even if there would be a way to control the switches you still need to battle the triggers. People dont like the thought because it puts them in control but faces them with big difficult problems like pollution and other crap. No 21century man has time for that.

Edited by bugsbunny, 28 December 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[Twindaddy37]

I have seen anecdotal reports of HD type vision on NSI, as well as a wider field of view, both which i experience on this. I also get that primal type of anxiety. Anyone else think this substance is engaging fight or flight response? which would make sense. 

[Twindaddy37]

Also, quick question for those with experience with both NSI and tianeptine. Quick history, have a history of drug dependence mainly opiods for ten years. Licked the habit 2 years ago, with no tendencies to abuse at this point. Am able to take phenibut here and there, without issue. I've gained back most of my mental faculties since the ten years of drug abuse, and do not suffer from depression or anxiety. My main goal is to heal past damages, hence my dance with a few different nootropics. This is my second go around with NSI, the first time i took it for two weeks, in which it gave me a great deal of anxiety, so i quit. But the aftereffects were marvelous. It definitely had a lasting effect on my ability to think myself out of negative thinking, as well as a boost in motivation, which is why i'm running it again at a lower dose. I still do feel the anxiety though, but i do not get a lot of sleep as i have twins at home. I currently take a multi, mag, lithium orotate 10mg at night, (the happy stack), lions mane, sulbutiamine, polygala and tumeric, as well as eating relatively healthy. My question is, is adding tianeptine going to be playing with fire? I got the sulfate version and plan on only taking it on the weekend at the normal dose. Can this substance just be taken on a weekend basis without feeling funky on say the monday after? Or shall i just not take tianeptine at all? I was using phenibut only on sat and sun, but its lost its luster, but i want to add something on the weekends for a little boost. Thoughts? 

[bugsbunny]

Also, quick question for those with experience with both NSI and tianeptine. Quick history, have a history of drug dependence mainly opiods for ten years. Licked the habit 2 years ago, with no tendencies to abuse at this point. Am able to take phenibut here and there, without issue. I've gained back most of my mental faculties since the ten years of drug abuse, and do not suffer from depression or anxiety. My main goal is to heal past damages, hence my dance with a few different nootropics. This is my second go around with NSI, the first time i took it for two weeks, in which it gave me a great deal of anxiety, so i quit. But the aftereffects were marvelous. It definitely had a lasting effect on my ability to think myself out of negative thinking, as well as a boost in motivation, which is why i'm running it again at a lower dose. I still do feel the anxiety though, but i do not get a lot of sleep as i have twins at home. I currently take a multi, mag, lithium orotate 10mg at night, (the happy stack), lions mane, sulbutiamine, polygala and tumeric, as well as eating relatively healthy. My question is, is adding tianeptine going to be playing with fire? I got the sulfate version and plan on only taking it on the weekend at the normal dose. Can this substance just be taken on a weekend basis without feeling funky on say the monday after? Or shall i just not take tianeptine at all? I was using phenibut only on sat and sun, but its lost its luster, but i want to add something on the weekends for a little boost. Thoughts? 

You need to know how strong your will is to take tianeptine only the therapeutic dose of 40mg per day. The tianetpine sulfate is a slow releaser and just has opioid effect in life threatening doses (kidney damage). You can take it without feeling funky on the next morning just a little dehydrated. Its more of an antidepressant then a weekend drug. It can be addictive but as long as you stay at the dosage risk is manageable.

[bugsbunny]

I heard reports that ex-opioid users are disappointed about the effects of tianeptine. In my opinion its because of false expectations. It will feel like a opiopid for 3 days to 1 weel and after that it has a regulating effect on the mind that fights depression but doesnt make you super happy. The steady state of the drug in the blood is reached in 1 to 2 weeks.

[linlin92]

I take NSI-189 (25mg) and Tianeptine Sodium (12.5mg) first thing in the morning once a day and there is no anxiety for me anymore. So happy! I never even feel the need to redose anymore.

 

Mind you I also like a spray or two of N-Acetyl SEMAX Amidate, memantine, and PRL-8-53 before I go to the gym (mid morning)

 

Fasoraceram before work in the afternoon or evening and the hours go by effortlessly :')

[Twindaddy37]

I take NSI-189 (25mg) and Tianeptine Sodium (12.5mg) first thing in the morning once a day and there is no anxiety for me anymore. So happy! I never even feel the need to redose anymore.

 

Mind you I also like a spray or two of N-Acetyl SEMAX Amidate, memantine, and PRL-8-53 before I go to the gym (mid morning)

 

Fasoraceram before work in the afternoon or evening and the hours go by effortlessly :')

 

 

Interesting, maybe i will just dose 25mg of tianeptine sulfate once a day, and just stick with it daily and see if it adds anything to my days, instead of just using it on the weekends. This second cycle of NSI is great, i find myself almost unable to think negatively, an effect much appreciated. I have yet to try selank or semax. Hated Prl-8-53, did nothing for me but make me hot and sweaty and seemed to alter my mood in a negative way, tossed that in the trash. None of the recetams did anything for me (though i have not tried faso), noopept nothing as well. The only true supplements i stick by that I KNOW work wonders for me, is uridine, high dha fish oil, lithium orotate and creatine (underrated as a noot IMO) along with some other general supplements. Those four right there have been my baseline supplements, all others have just been experimental. However, the NSI is something i am finding is adding great value at this time, but i prefer to cycle it say month on, two months off, so i can observe the aftereffects. Cerebrolysin is on my radar too, but have not pulled the trigger. Am also wondering if selank or semax is worth the money. Sulbutiamine seems to give me a little boost in the am, so i have stuck with that one occasionally. Was using phenibut, 500mg on sat and sun, but its lost its effect, and i will be dropping that to probably every other saturday so i can actually enjoy its benefits. Anyone have any other suggestions with what pairs nicely with NSI? I wont take modinafil or anything that jacks up the dopamine too much, in this new year my plan is to reset the dopamine receptors as thoroughly as possible, with elimination of nicotine, caffeine, masturbation, facebook checking or any other compulsive habits, while on NSI, to firmly ground in the new behaviors. 

Edited by Twindaddy37, 29 December 2016 - 06:58 PM.

[Strangelove]

I did not have the chance to read the thread these past two days, but great discussion...

 

I have started again with "brain entrainment" that has made NSI-189 working much better for me in these last past few months. I started listening to some delta binaural (1-4 Hz "meditation" tracks) that seem to be the best frequencies for me, from the "mind workstation" software below. It has a two week free trial, but you can find free tracks in youtube also. 

 

https://www.transpar...roducts/mindws/

 

1-4Hz can be a low frequency for brain entrainment, most that would want to try it, should go with theta or alpha.

 

What I do is calm down, try to concentrate at the sound, and at the times I get the most conscious, I ll repeat some positive mandra according to what thinking pattern/behavior I want to change. I ll use NSI-189 immediately after the session, what is peculiar is that I have noticed over the two last past months a great change in thought/behaviors connected with the mantras in ways that make me more functional in my everyday life. Like NSI-189 specifically boosting the already excited neurons from the session getting even better results than just listening to the tracks. I have done these kind of software guided meditation for years and now starting again, the results are far more positive... In the past, this kind of "brain work out" could make me edgy, but with the addition of NSI-189 this edginess transforms into "positive stress" like everything is exciting and extra "nice". The combination really seem to boost my brain energy also a lot.

 

The behavior modification can be from Vorinostat also (I have $35/gram third party tested 99.7% vorinostat, you may want to check my thread). 

 

http://www.longecity...am/#entry799620

 

that can be used for behavior modification (is mostly been used for fear extinction) but I think most of the results are from NSI-189.

 

Also an update with NSI-189 shipping... Unfortunately our non practical governement officials have arranged some major taxes to be paid through the post office and most due by the end of the year. I was waiting in line on Tuesday for at least 4 hours, and I could not manage to ship any envelope yesterday or today. The situation these last days is unimaginable. There are people that go one hour before opening at 6:30 AM to wait in line, and then wait close to ten hours to pay their taxes. Tomorrow is the last day, and I do no think I couls ship any envelopes either...

 

I have used tracking stickers and gave tracking# to members that contact me, but unfortunately they will registered on Monday. Also shipping time has increased by a lot, hopefully will get in the 5-7 working days from this Monday, but right now (even when they leave the country in 1-2 working days) members in USA or Canada can wait as long as three weeks and a few times more. Fortunately no envelope is lost yet.

[telavidico]

I was thinking on putting a family member on NSI-189 who is close to 71 and is experiencing mild memory impairment due to old age. I think I read studies suggesting that the hippocampus looses its volume with 1-2 % after 60.

 

I would like to create a good stack for him which he can take until he dies so that he experiences optimal memory and cognition. I think NSI-189 would be a good start to get him back on track and perhaps cycle it ? 

 

Any suggestions or thoughts ?

 

 

[Mind_Paralysis]

I was thinking on putting a family member on NSI-189 who is close to 71 and is experiencing mild memory impairment due to old age. I think I read studies suggesting that the hippocampus looses its volume with 1-2 % after 60.

 

I would like to create a good stack for him which he can take until he dies so that he experiences optimal memory and cognition. I think NSI-189 would be a good start to get him back on track and perhaps cycle it ? 

 

Any suggestions or thoughts ?

 

Sure!  = )

 

A few simple things comes to mind:

 

Omega-3 (get it high in EPA)
Choline (cdp-choline or alpha-gpc)

Magnesium-L-Threonate

 

The Choline is obviously for memory, and the MagLT is for keeping the glutamate in check, and the Omega-3 is for both memory and inflammation. However, keep in mind that Omega-3 upregulates choline-production so start low with the choline-supplements at first, to make sure he doesn't get over-production of Acetylcholine from all this.

 

His age though, should make that less likely.
 

[bugsbunny]

I was thinking on putting a family member on NSI-189 who is close to 71 and is experiencing mild memory impairment due to old age. I think I read studies suggesting that the hippocampus looses its volume with 1-2 % after 60.

 

I would like to create a good stack for him which he can take until he dies so that he experiences optimal memory and cognition. I think NSI-189 would be a good start to get him back on track and perhaps cycle it ? 

 

Any suggestions or thoughts ?

He needs to know the about the potential risks since it has no longterm reports. It might be it helps him, but it might be it will go horribly wrong, its not just one harmless chemical in a stack. These kinds of experiments should be always last resort in sane people, which none of us NSI-189 users are ( i know im a killjoy). So if he is ok with it its his fault if something goes wrong.

I was thinking about doing the same but failed because of morally concerns because im not a doctor.

 

Experience reports

 

 

Experience reports

 

 

Edited by bugsbunny, 30 December 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[bugsbunny]

I ordered magnesium l threonat because of recommendation here. What are your dosages and which effects did you get?

[linlin92]

I ordered magnesium l threonat because of recommendation here. What are your dosages and which effects did you get?

 

I Take 1.5G most nights to help me relax and sleep. I feel it stops the mind chatter and calms the nervous system down which has flow on effect on the muscles (eg after a class/training session at the gym).

[Twindaddy37]

Can anyone elaborate more on their experience with NSI, how long the cycle, and the aftereffects and if they stuck? Also, how has it effected sleep. This is my second go around with NSI, i'm taking four red microscoops in the am. I have had nothing but positive effects, though is seems to make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep for me. I did not suffer with much anxiety before NSI, but now, my mind is more serene than ever before. Its as if the internal dialogue and mind clutter was turned down several notches, allowing me to focus solely in the moment. I have had bursts of memories from the past flood in, in which i can sort of navigate through the memories as if i were reliving it, rather than seeing just snapshots of the past. I often dream about the past too, which is very new to me. Everything is tuned up, mood, senses, pleasure, etc. I see no downsides at this point, and unlike other antidepressants if anything this one has a BOOST in libido that comes with it, rather than a lack of libido and sensation. I'm thinking of running it for two months and then stopping, has anyone run longer cycles?

[Mind_Paralysis]

Has anyone tried NSI-189 along with an NRI, like Atomoxetine or Reboxetine?

This was the second day of trying NSI-189 with ATX - first day was only 25 mg, but today I went for gold with FORTY mg - because 40 mg was the dosage I noticed big improvements on the last time.

 

This time however... I got hit with the somnolence from h*ll! Rarely have I been so... dizzy, dysphoric, tired, yet stimulated as today! Almost passed out once, even.

 

 

Quite curious! Only now, after adding 20 mg Vyvanse and several, at least 5 hours, into the effects, have I noticed any clearing of dizzyness and somnolence.

What IS the mechanism trough which ATX causes somnolence anyway?? Is it selective towards Alpha-2-receptors at first, or something? And then activation of other NE-receptors happens only with longer exposure?

 

This time I obviously didn't titrate much, since last time I titrated from 10 mg and upwards very quickly - in the lapse of one week I was pushing 40 mg and finally getting effect! This time, it doesn't seem to agree with me, when it comes to the titration.

 

Of course, last time I didn't use NSI-189 at the same time either... and NSI-189 causes somnolence as well, in my experience.

[bugsbunny]

@Twindaddy37

My longest period was 3 months and that was too much for me I think. The dosage was 30mg-50mg of NSI sulfate. I had problems to focus at something, but i had a clear head. Emotions were boosted, angerproblems multiplied, but depression reduced. The quality of sleep reduced and I was confused in the mornings, sometimes i had a feeling of walking without moving forward in the morning. Memory boosted while taking NSI-189 and together with improved mood it feels good. After quiting NSI-189 one month later i still have a better memory, but i have to realize that it doesnt feel good, like its not balanced with the great awareness which reduces my ability to focus on the now-moment (not bad in some situations) this made me more introvert. My idea is to be careful with dosage and ingestion because you dont know how potent your stuff is, if youre sensetive to it etc. Take it 1 week 1 week off. Then 1 month and 1 month off, 3 months - 3 months off or something like that. 

awareness

 

 

awareness

 

awareness

 

 

Edited by bugsbunny, 03 January 2017 - 05:36 PM.

[Water Buffalo]

Can anyone elaborate more on their experience with NSI, how long the cycle, and the aftereffects and if they stuck? Also, how has it effected sleep. This is my second go around with NSI, i'm taking four red microscoops in the am. I have had nothing but positive effects, though is seems to make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep for me. I did not suffer with much anxiety before NSI, but now, my mind is more serene than ever before. Its as if the internal dialogue and mind clutter was turned down several notches, allowing me to focus solely in the moment. I have had bursts of memories from the past flood in, in which i can sort of navigate through the memories as if i were reliving it, rather than seeing just snapshots of the past. I often dream about the past too, which is very new to me. Everything is tuned up, mood, senses, pleasure, etc. I see no downsides at this point, and unlike other antidepressants if anything this one has a BOOST in libido that comes with it, rather than a lack of libido and sensation. I'm thinking of running it for two months and then stopping, has anyone run longer cycles?

I'm a few days shy of 1 year of continuous use at 40-80 mg. My experience mirrors yours except for the libido changes. The only negative side effect that I've had was a headache the first few days of taking it.

I've taken it for this long in the hopes of repairing some of the damage my hippocampus has taken. It seems that it's been working. NSI-189 has recently been shown to increase LTP and STP in the hippocampus of rats, so I'm fairly certain we aren't experiencing a placebo effect.

It feels like I turned back the hands of time. I haven't felt this good for a long time. The addition of bacopa a few months back gave me another boost. I recommend Bacognize at night if you are concerned about the drowsiness. You can also take Synapsa for its stimulating properties. Just make sure that you take bacopa with some fats.

I might take a couple months off from NSI-189 during the summer to reset my tolerance some.

Edited by Water Buffalo, 03 January 2017 - 06:26 PM.

[bugsbunny]

 

Can anyone elaborate more on their experience with NSI, how long the cycle, and the aftereffects and if they stuck? Also, how has it effected sleep. This is my second go around with NSI, i'm taking four red microscoops in the am. I have had nothing but positive effects, though is seems to make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep for me. I did not suffer with much anxiety before NSI, but now, my mind is more serene than ever before. Its as if the internal dialogue and mind clutter was turned down several notches, allowing me to focus solely in the moment. I have had bursts of memories from the past flood in, in which i can sort of navigate through the memories as if i were reliving it, rather than seeing just snapshots of the past. I often dream about the past too, which is very new to me. Everything is tuned up, mood, senses, pleasure, etc. I see no downsides at this point, and unlike other antidepressants if anything this one has a BOOST in libido that comes with it, rather than a lack of libido and sensation. I'm thinking of running it for two months and then stopping, has anyone run longer cycles?

I'm a few days shy of 1 year of continuous use at 40-80 mg. My experience mirrors yours except for the libido changes. The only negative side effect that I've had was a headache the first few days of taking it.

I've taken it for this long in the hopes of repairing some of the damage my hippocampus has taken. It seems that it's been working. NSI-189 has recently been shown to increase LTP and STP in the hippocampus of rats, so I'm fairly certain we aren't experiencing a placebo effect.

It feels like I turned back the hands of time. I haven't felt this good for a long time. The addition of bacopa a few months back gave me another boost. I recommend Bacognize at night if you are concerned about the drowsiness. You can also take Synapsa for its stimulating properties. Just make sure that you take bacopa with some fats.

I might take a couple months off from NSI-189 during the summer to reset my tolerance some.

 

I always wondered what is responsible for tolerance progress. Some compounds i used didnt have a lesser effect in months (like rhodiola rosea) but i was getting used to my influenced mind like I am used to my normal mind so I wanted something different, it wasnt bad but i needed more because of the stagnation. This might be the reason for some people to take drugs. You get a hype because of change and get depressed because you get used to it again. Its like people that buy new stuff that they do not really need.

[magniloquentc0unt]

Hello folks, i have a question.

I have just received and started my NSI-189 trial, day 2 so far. Bought from an european source (one of the main ones available, no names as of now) .

Ive had stomach issues (diahhrea and intestinal discomfort). Is this something common on NSI189? Because it feels extremely serotonergic. Ive had this often on Fluoxetine and almost all the time on Bacopa.

So i've started to wonder if this might not be nsi afterall but simply something else.... How would one have it tested?

[Water Buffalo]

Hello folks, i have a question.
I have just received and started my NSI-189 trial, day 2 so far. Bought from an european source (one of the main ones available, no names as of now) .
Ive had stomach issues (diahhrea and intestinal discomfort). Is this something common on NSI189? Because it feels extremely serotonergic. Ive had this often on Fluoxetine and almost all the time on Bacopa.
So i've started to wonder if this might not be nsi afterall but simply something else.... How would one have it tested?

I've never seen anyone post about intestinal issues. Maybe they aren't related. We're taking a very small amount of powder, but if you say you got this from serotonergic substances maybe you should get it tested. I think Strangelove knows of a source to have your compound tested for a small fee in Europe. You should send him a PM.

Edited by Water Buffalo, 03 January 2017 - 10:21 PM.

[Water Buffalo]

Can anyone elaborate more on their experience with NSI, how long the cycle, and the aftereffects and if they stuck? Also, how has it effected sleep. This is my second go around with NSI, i'm taking four red microscoops in the am. I have had nothing but positive effects, though is seems to make it harder to fall asleep and stay asleep for me. I did not suffer with much anxiety before NSI, but now, my mind is more serene than ever before. Its as if the internal dialogue and mind clutter was turned down several notches, allowing me to focus solely in the moment. I have had bursts of memories from the past flood in, in which i can sort of navigate through the memories as if i were reliving it, rather than seeing just snapshots of the past. I often dream about the past too, which is very new to me. Everything is tuned up, mood, senses, pleasure, etc. I see no downsides at this point, and unlike other antidepressants if anything this one has a BOOST in libido that comes with it, rather than a lack of libido and sensation. I'm thinking of running it for two months and then stopping, has anyone run longer cycles?

I'm a few days shy of 1 year of continuous use at 40-80 mg. My experience mirrors yours except for the libido changes. The only negative side effect that I've had was a headache the first few days of taking it.

I've taken it for this long in the hopes of repairing some of the damage my hippocampus has taken. It seems that it's been working. NSI-189 has recently been shown to increase LTP and STP in the hippocampus of rats, so I'm fairly certain we aren't experiencing a placebo effect.

It feels like I turned back the hands of time. I haven't felt this good for a long time. The addition of bacopa a few months back gave me another boost. I recommend Bacognize at night if you are concerned about the drowsiness. You can also take Synapsa for its stimulating properties. Just make sure that you take bacopa with some fats.

I might take a couple months off from NSI-189 during the summer to reset my tolerance some.

I always wondered what is responsible for tolerance progress. Some compounds i used didnt have a lesser effect in months (like rhodiola rosea) but i was getting used to my influenced mind like I am used to my normal mind so I wanted something different, it wasnt bad but i needed more because of the stagnation. This might be the reason for some people to take drugs. You get a hype because of change and get depressed because you get used to it again. Its like people that buy new stuff that they do not really need.

I'm not sure if I've developed a tolerance because I feel so good. I'm just taking a precaution to reset whichever receptors that it's been using.

I should have specified that the bacopa was meant to improve my memory. I'm not sure how effective it is for mood changes.

Edited by Water Buffalo, 03 January 2017 - 10:29 PM.

[bugsbunny]

Hello folks, i have a question.

I have just received and started my NSI-189 trial, day 2 so far. Bought from an european source (one of the main ones available, no names as of now) .

Ive had stomach issues (diahhrea and intestinal discomfort). Is this something common on NSI189? Because it feels extremely serotonergic. Ive had this often on Fluoxetine and almost all the time on Bacopa.

So i've started to wonder if this might not be nsi afterall but simply something else.... How would one have it tested?

NSI got a very unique taste. Once you found one good source you can recognize it by taste, because it has a unique aftertaste, foretaste and maintaste. With this methode you can tell its 100% NSI, but you cant taste tasteless fillers of course. I never had diahrea, but body aches are common and for me lowered blood flow. There are some body problems on it, but without depression you dont focus on them that much.

Edited by bugsbunny, 04 January 2017 - 08:35 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

Hello folks, i have a question.

I have just received and started my NSI-189 trial, day 2 so far. Bought from an european source (one of the main ones available, no names as of now) .

Ive had stomach issues (diahhrea and intestinal discomfort). Is this something common on NSI189? Because it feels extremely serotonergic. Ive had this often on Fluoxetine and almost all the time on Bacopa.

So i've started to wonder if this might not be nsi afterall but simply something else.... How would one have it tested?

NSI got a very unique taste. Once you found one good source you can recognize it by taste, because it has a unique aftertaste, foretaste and maintaste. With this methode you can tell its 100% NSI, but you cant taste tasteless fillers of course. I never had diahrea, but body aches are common and for me lowered blood flow. There are some body problems on it, but without depression you dont focus on them that much.

 

 

So I'm not the only one who finds the taste of NSI-189 peculiar!

 

It's... hard to describe, actually. I'm trying to think of similar chemical tastes, or even regular tastes, but it's not entirely easy to put it into words. It's somewhat bitter, but not that much, more... I don't know!

 

It's not like Fasoracetam, which has a clear, SUPER-bitter taste, to the point that it's almost PAINFUL to ingest - NSI-189 reminds me a bit of the foretaste of Faso, but it's not entirely right.

 

Anybody else care to make an attempt at describing the taste?

 

Telling people about it isn't all that useful, if they don't know what to look for.