6219 replies to this topic

[Voulezvous]

Is NSI-189 phosphate (oral) more commonly used than NSI-189 freebase (sublingual)?

Is there consensus on starting out with one over the other?

Edited by Voulezvous, 06 January 2018 - 07:03 PM.

[DEChengst]

Anyone know any good places to buy NSI in capsule form that ships to the USA?

The only place I know that sells NSI capsules is intellimeds.net. They're not bad I guess, but they aren't considered to be among the most reliable vendors either. Why don't you get a milligram scale and weigh the powder out yourself? It's really easy and considering the dose even a cheap scale that does +/- 5mg should be good enough. PM forummember Strangelove if you want a good source for powder.

Edited by DEChengst, 07 January 2018 - 04:04 PM.

[floweryriddle]

A new guineapig here.

 

I started taking NSI-189 roughly 4 days ago for depression (and by it caused emotional numbness, lack in motivation). At first 20mg sublingual, then 40mg, then back to 20mg. I am consistently feeling a strong buzz, like after a good cup of coffee. Sometimes even a sensation in my head area

With 40mg brain fog increased and I had trouble concentrating. Sometimes having thoughts in my head that then disappeared. That's when I read here that sublingual 20mg can be equivalent to 40mg oral and I cut back down. 

 

I noticed a small boost in motivation but that's a little too early to tell and might just be placebo. 

 

One more interesting thing I noticed though is: I am taking Strattera (Atomoxetine) for ADHD. I noticed that when I take NSI-189 some of ADHD quirks (for example forgetting thoughts) are seeming to come back. I am also more hyper and restless compared to when I don't take NSI-189 and just Strattera. 

 

I am taking 3g of Omega-3, Uridine, Black seed oil and a Multivit (with separate b-complex+vitamin k2+vitamin d3+vitamin e) daily (with occasional Alpha-GPC). 

Edited by dvstr, 08 January 2018 - 06:30 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

A new guineapig here.

 

One more interesting thing I noticed though is: I am taking Strattera (Atomoxetine) for ADHD. I noticed that when I take NSI-189 some of ADHD quirks (for example forgetting thoughts) are seeming to come back. I am also more hyper and restless compared to when I don't take NSI-189 and just Strattera. 

 

I am taking 3g of Omega-3, Uridine, Black seed oil and a Multivit (with separate b-complex+vitamin k2+vitamin d3+vitamin e) daily (with occasional Alpha-GPC). 

 

Older guinea pig here - I have ADHD as well, and can confirm that INDEED NSI-189 worsened those symptoms somewhat, made me restless and hyper, even though I'm never hyper otherwise, while taking it.

 

It also seemed to interfere with Atomoxetine for me too - in my case though, it made ATX EVEN MORE SEDATING(!) - I got so tired from the combo that it got to a bit dangerous...! Walking into walls, almost falling asleep while standing up, et c.

 

I had to discontinue - but you don't seem to have that side-effect, so it's probably ok.

[Avila]

Long time forum member, but new NSI guinea pig here also. Attempting to treat a long-term anxiety/depression mix that's made life difficult for many years. My symptoms are acute anxiety contributing to panic attacks and a knots-in-the-stomach feeling triggered by professional and personal responsibilities (particularly focused on other people's expectations of me), perceived health problems that are often non-existent, and generally worrying about the future, my health, financial responsibilities, providing for my family, and just keeping up with the rat race. Also, stomach and digestive issues probably related to anxiety, some ADD, and procrastination that seems to be clearly related to anxiety with my responsibilities.

 

A few weeks ago I took an initial "allergy test" dose of 5mg NS-189, turned out fine. Nothing to report.

 

I've been taking Tianeptine sodium regularly for at least the past 6 months, initially 12 to 15 mg but as the powder began to hydrate and turn into a solid clump I started chipping off pieces and upped the dosage to around 20 to 25 mg under the assumption that the added water molecules have increased the compound weight. This may be a false assumption, but I haven't noticed any real difference in potency. The Tianeptine provides a small acute mood lift.

 

As with all new substances I trial, I begin very low and gradually work up until I discover a therapeutic dose that works for me if I respond well to it. I tend to be very sensitive to chemicals sometimes. So I began with 10mg once a day, taken late afternoon. I've continued with the Tianeptine and I'm only on day 3 right now. Day one, I noticed nothing of particular importance other than my depression/anxiety remained low. Day two, still nothing concrete to report but for a couple of hours I did feel a slightly broader sense of my role in my own life and my environment along with a unique calm feeling, after a few hours that feeling disappeared and was replaced by very mild agitation and mildly uncomfortable stimulation. To be clear these effects were VERY subtle and could easily be attributed to placebo. I plan to continue with a 10mg once a day regimen for a couple more days, then depending on any noticeable effects/side effects I may move up to 15mg once a day, or 20mg a day possible divided into two 10mg doses per day. I will continue to report as the experiment continues.

 

For reference, my regular regimen consists of a few prescription medications: Bupropion, Metoprolol, Pravastatin, Armodafinil, and Clonazepam. Other drugs and supplements, Tianeptine, Piracetam, Aspirin, Omeprazole, St. John's Wort, Inositol, Taurine, Lysine, Zinc and Vitamins C, D3, B6, and K2. Occasionally I take Fish Oil (seems to increase depression), L-Phenylalanine, ALCAR, Monolaurin, Ashwagandha (seem to have a mild allergic reaction to it), Coluracetam, Acetomenophen, NAC, and L-Glutamine.

[Voulezvous]

For reference, my regular regimen consists of a few prescription medications: Bupropion, Metoprolol, Pravastatin, Armodafinil, and Clonazepam. Other drugs and supplements, Tianeptine, Piracetam, Aspirin, Omeprazole, St. John's Wort, Inositol, Taurine, Lysine, Zinc and Vitamins C, D3, B6, and K2. Occasionally I take Fish Oil (seems to increase depression), L-Phenylalanine, ALCAR, Monolaurin, Ashwagandha (seem to have a mild allergic reaction to it), Coluracetam, Acetomenophen, NAC, and L-Glutamine.[/quote]

___________________________________
Avila, in case you haven’t yet, you might want to look into Omeprazole risks.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4930512/

If you’re taking it for stomach upset/ heartburn,
and in case you haven’t tried this yet, good old fashioned baking soda does wonders for some people, and it’s actually good for you.

I found this article about it. http://drsircus.com/...lkalinity-ph-2/

it’s very detailed about alkaline vs alkalinity. I can’t personally vouch for this source, but maybe others can take a look...
There’s quite a bit of info online about proton pump inhibitors possibly linked to dementia/ Alzheimer’s.

Edited by Voulezvous, 08 January 2018 - 08:10 PM.

[Avila]

Thanks, Voulezvous. I will definitely look into this.

 

I've been taking it for years already. Was prescribed it before it became OTC. I've often wanted to give it up, but missing a day really gives my stomach hell. The L-Glutamine I take is primarily for stomach issues related to acid. A teaspoon of L-Glutamine with a big glass of water quells acid attacks pretty well actually. I'm also concerned that I may have a potential ulcer, and possible H. Pylori infection (I haven't been tested, but suspect. I was referred to a GI for endoscopy but my insurance leaves me with a larger share of the cost than I can afford atm). I also often take probiotic supplements and digestive enzymes prior to meals. These measures seem to help. My stomach and digestive system is a regular source of misery, and I'm convinced that anxiety is a primary factor.

 

Thanks for the links!

 

[floweryriddle]

 

A new guineapig here.

 

One more interesting thing I noticed though is: I am taking Strattera (Atomoxetine) for ADHD. I noticed that when I take NSI-189 some of ADHD quirks (for example forgetting thoughts) are seeming to come back. I am also more hyper and restless compared to when I don't take NSI-189 and just Strattera. 

 

I am taking 3g of Omega-3, Uridine, Black seed oil and a Multivit (with separate b-complex+vitamin k2+vitamin d3+vitamin e) daily (with occasional Alpha-GPC). 

 

Older guinea pig here - I have ADHD as well, and can confirm that INDEED NSI-189 worsened those symptoms somewhat, made me restless and hyper, even though I'm never hyper otherwise, while taking it.

 

It also seemed to interfere with Atomoxetine for me too - in my case though, it made ATX EVEN MORE SEDATING(!) - I got so tired from the combo that it got to a bit dangerous...! Walking into walls, almost falling asleep while standing up, et c.

 

I had to discontinue - but you don't seem to have that side-effect, so it's probably ok.

 

 

Interesting! I thought I was just imagining it but good to get confirmation. I barely remember how it is to not be medicated but this was a nice reminder. 

 

Either the NSI-189 is making ADHD worse or cancelling out Atomexetine in some way. I might try to increase ATX/reduce NSI and see if it makes a difference. 

For testing I didn't take my NSI-189 dose today to see if I reset back to normal. It's almost afternoon here and I'm still pretty restless but let's see. Will report back! 

[Ultima]

Has anyone here taken NSI-189 with Adderall XR 20mg?

[Mark1234]

Hello,

 

has anyone else noticed nausea after taking NSI-189 phosphate? I started off with 40 mg, effects are as reported.

but it seems to bother my stomach

[floweryriddle]

It took roughly 2 days until my body was back at baseline and the increased restlessness stopped. 

Today I took 15mg sublingually in the morning and as previously, the restlessness kicked in again with effects of Atomexetine feeling to get weaker. ADHD symptoms feel again like I am not taking/barely taking medicine. 

 

Will try 10mg orally once it's out of my system again. 

Edited by dvstr, 12 January 2018 - 07:32 AM.

[Mind_Paralysis]

Hello,

 

has anyone else noticed nausea after taking NSI-189 phosphate? I started off with 40 mg, effects are as reported.

but it seems to bother my stomach

 

It's not a commonly reported side-effect, no. Most people seem to be able to even gulp it down with multiple other stomach-irritating compounds - I know I myself did so.

 

A simple solution to the problem, would be to cut your dosage in half - 20 mg, and then take that sublingually (dissolve under your tongue) - if there is no gut to irritate, then no nausea.

[floweryriddle]

A quick question. I quickly searched the thread but couldn't directly find a answer (too many pages)

 

For taking orally, is it required to cap the NSI-189 first or can I just flush it down with some water right away? 

[Mind_Paralysis]

A quick question. I quickly searched the thread but couldn't directly find a answer (too many pages)

 

For taking orally, is it required to cap the NSI-189 first or can I just flush it down with some water right away? 

 

You can flush it down.

Most of us just cap it because it tastes like absolute sh*t.

 

Then again, so do most medical chemicals - paracetamol is an infamous one, from everyone's youth.

[floweryriddle]

 

A quick question. I quickly searched the thread but couldn't directly find a answer (too many pages)

 

For taking orally, is it required to cap the NSI-189 first or can I just flush it down with some water right away? 

 

You can flush it down.

Most of us just cap it because it tastes like absolute sh*t.

 

Then again, so do most medical chemicals - paracetamol is an infamous one, from everyone's youth.

 

 

Great, thank you! Luckily I'm used to chemical wasteland taste from my early noopept experiments :p. Will report back (also in relation to ADHD) the coming days. 

 

Another odd thing I noticed is that I keep clenching my teeth subconsciously while on NSI. Once it's out of my system, the clenching stops. 

[AQAQ]

So I'm at day 10 or so now and I'm already noticing positive effects like more mindfulness and less negative thougts. 

 

But the problem is I can't take it together with my concerta since it has a weird effect together (clenching, overstimulation?, Headache). 

 

So is it possible to take the nsi at night and the concerta during the day so they don't interact with eachother?

[Mind_Paralysis]

So I'm at day 10 or so now and I'm already noticing positive effects like more mindfulness and less negative thougts. 

 

But the problem is I can't take it together with my concerta since it has a weird effect together (clenching, overstimulation?, Headache). 

 

So is it possible to take the nsi at night and the concerta during the day so they don't interact with eachother?

 

It's possible, I've seen a few reports with people doing that - however, it should be noted, that NSI-189 seems to, much like multiple other types of antidepressants, mess with sleep-structure, or even give a bit of insomnia.

 

It's worth a shot, but don't be surprised if your sleep gets a bit less restful for a while.

One simple experiment, could be to divide your current dosage into two dosings, yes? Half the dosage when you wake up, the other half when you go to bed.

[extendcel]

What is the consensus on NSI-189's effectiveness for healing brain damage caused by repeated concussions?

[AQAQ]

So I'm at day 10 or so now and I'm already noticing positive effects like more mindfulness and less negative thougts.

But the problem is I can't take it together with my concerta since it has a weird effect together (clenching, overstimulation?, Headache).

So is it possible to take the nsi at night and the concerta during the day so they don't interact with eachother?

It's possible, I've seen a few reports with people doing that - however, it should be noted, that NSI-189 seems to, much like multiple other types of antidepressants, mess with sleep-structure, or even give a bit of insomnia.

It's worth a shot, but don't be surprised if your sleep gets a bit less restful for a while.

One simple experiment, could be to divide your current dosage into two dosings, yes? Half the dosage when you wake up, the other half when you go to bed.

Sounds like a good idea, thanks!

[Mind_Paralysis]

What is the consensus on NSI-189's effectiveness for healing brain damage caused by repeated concussions?

 

There is no consensus, since you're the first person I've ever seen mentioning it even - the scientific studies mainly show neural growth in the hippocampus, unless your damage is in that region, it's not entirely known if that neurogenesis then carries out to other regions of the brain. (in theory, since the hippocampus apparently creates stem-cells for other regions as well)

 

Neuralstem has planned to conduct a trial for traumatic brain injury as well, but as far as I know, there are no results posted yet.

 

 

What parts of your brain have you damaged? What does the MRI's show? To be honest, I think *DIHEXA* might be a better bet, since that drug has more evidence of neurogenesis in multiple regions of the brain.

 

Sadly, the drug super, super rare, since no one has had the guts to make a group buy and then get the compound out to more people, and then in turn light the interest of the big Nootropics-stores. I believe the market-leader, Ceretropic, has mentioned that the reason they don't carry it, is partially the lack of human trials, but mostly the fact that they couldn't obtain any reliable reference-samples of the drug, to make sure that they synthesize the right stuff.

 

 

You're in luck though, because there IS a drug with well-studied properties which have been confirmed as the only traditional drug causing neurogenesis in multiple brain-regions, such as the PFC - LITHIUM! High dose Lithium Orotate combined with high-dose NSI-189 might work.

 

I doubt NSI-189 will work on its own though - sad to say it, but there's no proof.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 14 January 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[Mark1234]

 

Hello,

 

has anyone else noticed nausea after taking NSI-189 phosphate? I started off with 40 mg, effects are as reported.

but it seems to bother my stomach

 

It's not a commonly reported side-effect, no. Most people seem to be able to even gulp it down with multiple other stomach-irritating compounds - I know I myself did so.

 

A simple solution to the problem, would be to cut your dosage in half - 20 mg, and then take that sublingually (dissolve under your tongue) - if there is no gut to irritate, then no nausea.

 

Thank you for your answer!

 

Did anybody else also notice increased anxiety on phosphate form? I have almost never experienced anxiety while being on freebase - and its weird because people report that freebase is more potent.

[Mind_Paralysis]

 

 

Hello,

 

has anyone else noticed nausea after taking NSI-189 phosphate? I started off with 40 mg, effects are as reported.

but it seems to bother my stomach

 

It's not a commonly reported side-effect, no. Most people seem to be able to even gulp it down with multiple other stomach-irritating compounds - I know I myself did so.

 

A simple solution to the problem, would be to cut your dosage in half - 20 mg, and then take that sublingually (dissolve under your tongue) - if there is no gut to irritate, then no nausea.

 

Thank you for your answer!

 

Did anybody else also notice increased anxiety on phosphate form? I have almost never experienced anxiety while being on freebase - and its weird because people report that freebase is more potent.

 

 

I noticed increased anxiety on Phosphate, yes. I didn't notice anything with Freebase though - hardly any effect on me - maybe a bit more fatigue towards the end.
 

Freebase is only more potent if you use it sublingually (compared to sublingual phosphate) - if you just take it ORALLY, then it's actually less effective.

 

 

I only took my freebase orally, hence probably why it was ineffective, through that administration-method.

Edited by Stinkorninjor, 15 January 2018 - 05:41 PM.

[Voulezvous]

Stinkorninjor, I take 4.6 mg lithium orotate every day as part of my regimen. My depression has gotten so bad, with mood swings and instability, I think I’m having bipolar tendencies. I want to increase to a therapeutic dose of lithium orotate.

But I’m having a hard time differentiating between elemental lithium and lithium orotate in the write ups I’ve found. They usually point out that 120 mg lithium orotate actually contains 4.6 elemental lithium, but then they don’t spell out that discrepancy when giving recommendation for a therapeutic dose (i.e. for bipolar disorder.)

In this context, how many 4.6 mg tablets do you mean?
Thanks!

What is the consensus on NSI-189's effectiveness for healing brain damage caused by repeated concussions?

There is no consensus, since you're the first person I've ever seen mentioning it even - the scientific studies mainly show neural growth in the hippocampus, unless your damage is in that region, it's not entirely known if that neurogenesis then carries out to other regions of the brain. (in theory, since the hippocampus apparently creates stem-cells for other regions as well)

Neuralstem has planned to conduct a trial for traumatic brain injury as well, but as far as I know, there are no results posted yet.


What parts of your brain have you damaged? What does the MRI's show? To be honest, I think *DIHEXA* might be a better bet, since that drug has more evidence of neurogenesis in multiple regions of the brain.

Sadly, the drug super, super rare, since no one has had the guts to make a group buy and then get the compound out to more people, and then in turn light the interest of the big Nootropics-stores. I believe the market-leader, Ceretropic, has mentioned that the reason they don't carry it, is partially the lack of human trials, but mostly the fact that they couldn't obtain any reliable reference-samples of the drug, to make sure that they synthesize the right stuff.


You're in luck though, because there IS a drug with well-studied properties which have been confirmed as the only traditional drug causing neurogenesis in multiple brain-regions, such as the PFC - LITHIUM! High dose Lithium Orotate combined with high-dose NSI-189 might work.

I doubt NSI-189 will work on its own though - sad to say it, but there's no proof.

[Voulezvous]

I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.
I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.

[AQAQ]

Hello,

has anyone else noticed nausea after taking NSI-189 phosphate? I started off with 40 mg, effects are as reported.
but it seems to bother my stomach

It's not a commonly reported side-effect, no. Most people seem to be able to even gulp it down with multiple other stomach-irritating compounds - I know I myself did so.

A simple solution to the problem, would be to cut your dosage in half - 20 mg, and then take that sublingually (dissolve under your tongue) - if there is no gut to irritate, then no nausea.

Thank you for your answer!

Did anybody else also notice increased anxiety on phosphate form? I have almost never experienced anxiety while being on freebase - and its weird because people report that freebase is more potent.

I also have this issue and have been taking low dose benzo's but I hate them. Considering switching to something like tianeptine for anxiety

[Mind_Paralysis]

Stinkorninjor, I take 4.6 mg lithium orotate every day as part of my regimen. My depression has gotten so bad, with mood swings and instability, I think I’m having bipolar tendencies. I want to increase to a therapeutic dose of lithium orotate.

But I’m having a hard time differentiating between elemental lithium and lithium orotate in the write ups I’ve found. They usually point out that 120 mg lithium orotate actually contains 4.6 elemental lithium, but then they don’t spell out that discrepancy when giving recommendation for a therapeutic dose (i.e. for bipolar disorder.)

In this context, how many 4.6 mg tablets do you mean?
Thanks!

 

 

 

 

If you suspect you have Bipolar disorder... even an atypical form, then you need to contact your medical services and ask for an evaluation - it can be a lethal disease. With that said...

 

 

...Well, that's a tricky question... there's not really any consensus on what constitutes a therapeutic dose, since LiO has different bioavailability than the other Lithium formulations - we're not actually entirely sure just HOW much more bioavailable it is, you see.

 

Right... let's dig through the litterature on this, a bit - it's only right, if I start advocating people taking it, they ought to know potential dosing.

 

Rat brain and serum lithium concentrations after acute injections of lithium carbonate and orotate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...ov/pubmed/26768

 

. While little serum lithium remained at 24 h after injection of 2.0 m equiv kg-1 lithium carbonate, two-thirds of the 2 h serum lithium concentration was present 24h after lithium orotate. Furthermore, the 24 h brain concentration of lithium after lithium orotate was approximately three times greater than that after lithium carbonate

 

 

Ok... that suggests possibly 3x higher bioavailability than Lithium Carbonate, and a possibly 4-5 times longer half-life. Hmm.

 

 

From the one and only trial in humans that I can find, the dosage used to prevent alcoholism was 150 mg daily.

Lithium orotate in the treatment of alcoholism and related conditions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...2?dopt=Abstract

 

 

150 mg seems a bit much... on the other hand, here's an actual bonafide Bipolar who took it to prevent mania and depression:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=430225

 

He was taking an astonishing 1250 mg of LiO!! The highest I've ever seen...

 

 

Anyways, I can't say for sure here - I've heard other people make calculations that it's up to 8 times more bioavailable, but the most I can find that's official, is 3x. I'd simply double your current dosage - 9.2 mg per day of LiO.

 

If that doesn't work, you go up to 20 mg, and so on.

 

But I urge you... if you don't see an improvement very soon, with 10 mg of LiO, please, please please... contact your medical providers - tell them you might be Bipolar.

 

 

 

Interesting final note, apparently there's a compound called Lithium SALICYLATE - which actually shows a lot of promise - might actually be better than LiO! :O

Plasma and brain pharmacokinetics of previously unexplored lithium salts

http://pubs.rsc.org/...th#!divAbstract

 

"Remarkably, lithium salicylate produced elevated plasma and brain levels of lithium beyond 48 hours post-dose without the sharp peak that contributes to the toxicity problems of current lithium therapeutics."

 

 

 

I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.
I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.

 

No, it won't show up... if you bought from a legitimate source whom supplied evidence of purity-testing, that is!

 

If your NSI-189 was cut, you could obviously be in trouble, but otherwise you're golden. NSI-189 is chemically too different from any of the compounds a regular drug test would go for - usually it's a 6-panel test, or maximum a 12-panel - those tests usually don't even pick up on BZP, the only chemical which NSI-189 is even remotely similar to - at the moment, there is also no evidence that NSI-189 metabolises to BZP - that was a only a hypothesis from a user here on the forums.

 

It seems unlikely, since the euphoric effects, which are not universal, are only present for the first few days - logically, if it was metabolising into BZP, NSI-189 would become euphoric AFTER a couple of days, when the drug would reach a sufficient level in the blood - but that's not the case, the opposite is!

 

You've got nothing to fear.
 

 

For what it's worth, I've taken a standard classic 6-panel test while on NSI-189 (I wasn't suspected of using drugs though, but I told them that I wanted to get help for my ADHD and since I had recently moved back here, they wanted to test me first) and came through with flying colours. Many others have done so as well, over on Reddit, without any problems.

[Voulezvous]

Wow, thank you so much for these great answers!

My psychiatrist is treating me for bipolar symptoms. I started taking Lamotrigine for it a few weeks ago. I’m also having panic attacks that are out of control.
I didn’t want to talk about this here but I might as well- my daughter has been missing for 2 and a half years. I haven’t seen or heard from her. I think she was taken by her father but I’m not sure. She was getting treatment for an infection in her spinal fluid- I have to assume that was cut off because her father is a true sociopath. I can’t believe I’m putting this in writing. My family and friends know about it but I’m holed up all day every day with never ending pure adrenaline and grief.
It feels wrong to be worried about my emotional wellbeing when god only knows what she’s going through. I try to tell myself he loves her, he’s just doing this to hurt me. But I don’t know for sure it’s him. We haven’t had any contact for years and I didn’t know where he was or is.

Anyway this has been my nightmare for so long I am coming around to realizing that I absolutely have to be strong and ready to take care of her again at a moment’s notice. The police are looking for them. Things could be over any time, or never. I need to be ready for the former.

I found out about nsi-189 looking for anything new for traumatic stress. I bought some from China and I asked for documentation that it’s good quality. I’m hesitantly believing it’s legitimate.

About the bipolar thing: my psychiatrist doesn’t seem to be treating me for actual bipolar disorder- I hope this is correct- I was never unstable before I lost my daughter. It’s the not knowing that’s killing me. And I feel so guilty for being focused on myself when she’s the one who matters. But I don’t know what else to do.
This is the most I’ve written about this in a long time. I know I’m going to be extra fucked up for a couple days now. Maybe I shouldn’t have said all this. I also remind myself that everyone has problems and battles they deal with every day.

Anyway my point in all this is, my symptoms are all from external reasons. That might change how I should be dealing with chemicals. I’m not in good shape for researching right now. I forget things as soon as I’ve read them.

Stinkorninjor, I take 4.6 mg lithium orotate every day as part of my regimen. My depression has gotten so bad, with mood swings and instability, I think I’m having bipolar tendencies. I want to increase to a therapeutic dose of lithium orotate.

But I’m having a hard time differentiating between elemental lithium and lithium orotate in the write ups I’ve found. They usually point out that 120 mg lithium orotate actually contains 4.6 elemental lithium, but then they don’t spell out that discrepancy when giving recommendation for a therapeutic dose (i.e. for bipolar disorder.)

In this context, how many 4.6 mg tablets do you mean?
Thanks!

If you suspect you have Bipolar disorder... even an atypical form, then you need to contact your medical services and ask for an evaluation - it can be a lethal disease. With that said...


...Well, that's a tricky question... there's not really any consensus on what constitutes a therapeutic dose, since LiO has different bioavailability than the other Lithium formulations - we're not actually entirely sure just HOW much more bioavailable it is, you see.

Right... let's dig through the litterature on this, a bit - it's only right, if I start advocating people taking it, they ought to know potential dosing.
Rat brain and serum lithium concentrations after acute injections of lithium carbonate and orotate.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...ov/pubmed/26768

. While little serum lithium remained at 24 h after injection of 2.0 m equiv kg-1 lithium carbonate, two-thirds of the 2 h serum lithium concentration was present 24h after lithium orotate. Furthermore, the 24 h brain concentration of lithium after lithium orotate was approximately three times greater than that after lithium carbonate

Ok... that suggests possibly 3x higher bioavailability than Lithium Carbonate, and a possibly 4-5 times longer half-life. Hmm.


From the one and only trial in humans that I can find, the dosage used to prevent alcoholism was 150 mg daily. Lithium orotate in the treatment of alcoholism and related conditions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...2?dopt=Abstract


150 mg seems a bit much... on the other hand, here's an actual bonafide Bipolar who took it to prevent mania and depression:
http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=430225

He was taking an astonishing 1250 mg of LiO!! The highest I've ever seen...


Anyways, I can't say for sure here - I've heard other people make calculations that it's up to 8 times more bioavailable, but the most I can find that's official, is 3x. I'd simply double your current dosage - 9.2 mg per day of LiO.

If that doesn't work, you go up to 20 mg, and so on.

But I urge you... if you don't see an improvement very soon, with 10 mg of LiO, please, please please... contact your medical providers - tell them you might be Bipolar.



Interesting final note, apparently there's a compound called Lithium SALICYLATE - which actually shows a lot of promise - might actually be better than LiO! :O
Plasma and brain pharmacokinetics of previously unexplored lithium salts
http://pubs.rsc.org/...th#!divAbstract

"Remarkably, lithium salicylate produced elevated plasma and brain levels of lithium beyond 48 hours post-dose without the sharp peak that contributes to the toxicity problems of current lithium therapeutics."

I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.
I have to have a blood test today or tomorrow. I’m not going to mention anything about NSI-189, but I’m taking 40 mg sublingually. Is there any chance it will show up in a blood test, even if they aren’t looking for it?
And how long does it stay in your system?
Thanks everyone.

No, it won't show up... if you bought from a legitimate source whom supplied evidence of purity-testing, that is!

If your NSI-189 was cut, you could obviously be in trouble, but otherwise you're golden. NSI-189 is chemically too different from any of the compounds a regular drug test would go for - usually it's a 6-panel test, or maximum a 12-panel - those tests usually don't even pick up on BZP, the only chemical which NSI-189 is even remotely similar to - at the moment, there is also no evidence that NSI-189 metabolises to BZP - that was a only a hypothesis from a user here on the forums.

It seems unlikely, since the euphoric effects, which are not universal, are only present for the first few days - logically, if it was metabolising into BZP, NSI-189 would become euphoric AFTER a couple of days, when the drug would reach a sufficient level in the blood - but that's not the case, the opposite is!

You've got nothing to fear.


For what it's worth, I've taken a standard classic 6-panel test while on NSI-189 (I wasn't suspected of using drugs though, but I told them that I wanted to get help for my ADHD and since I had recently moved back here, they wanted to test me first) and came through with flying colours. Many others have done so as well, over on Reddit, without any problems.

[Voulezvous]

Stinkorninjor, Another question: when you cited the study of lithium orotate for alcoholism, does that mean 150 mg of lithium IN orotate, or 150 mg of elemental lithium?

[floweryriddle]

Here with another update.

 

I read somewhere (can't find the link) that orally might be better for NSI because of the possibility that too much getting absorbed, plus the clinical trials were done orally. 

I started with ~13mg orally and had no negative side effects. Today I'm on 40mg orally and the buzz/restlessness is back. Less pronounced than when doing sublingual (even 20mg sublingual) but still there. Concentration and staying focused is very difficult. 

 

I also upped my strattera dosage by 40mg, but that will take a while until it's in full effect. 

 

Some other things I noticed that I could either be the higher strattera, NSI or meditation: 

- I looked out of my window and just felt very happy

- I started talking to people I usually don't talk to

- I feel more motivated

- I am a lot more interested in holding a conversation with people and being less silent

- I am less on autopilot and more 'realizing the now' (although this one is almost definitely meditation)

[extendcel]

 

What is the consensus on NSI-189's effectiveness for healing brain damage caused by repeated concussions?

 

There is no consensus, since you're the first person I've ever seen mentioning it even - the scientific studies mainly show neural growth in the hippocampus, unless your damage is in that region, it's not entirely known if that neurogenesis then carries out to other regions of the brain. (in theory, since the hippocampus apparently creates stem-cells for other regions as well)

 

Neuralstem has planned to conduct a trial for traumatic brain injury as well, but as far as I know, there are no results posted yet.

 

 

What parts of your brain have you damaged? What does the MRI's show? To be honest, I think *DIHEXA* might be a better bet, since that drug has more evidence of neurogenesis in multiple regions of the brain.

 

Sadly, the drug super, super rare, since no one has had the guts to make a group buy and then get the compound out to more people, and then in turn light the interest of the big Nootropics-stores. I believe the market-leader, Ceretropic, has mentioned that the reason they don't carry it, is partially the lack of human trials, but mostly the fact that they couldn't obtain any reliable reference-samples of the drug, to make sure that they synthesize the right stuff.

 

 

You're in luck though, because there IS a drug with well-studied properties which have been confirmed as the only traditional drug causing neurogenesis in multiple brain-regions, such as the PFC - LITHIUM! High dose Lithium Orotate combined with high-dose NSI-189 might work.

 

I doubt NSI-189 will work on its own though - sad to say it, but there's no proof.

 

 

Thank you for your response. I've never had MRIs done because they were from combat sports and it was just part of the game. The main lingering symptoms due to the damage to the brain are memory issues and reduced verbal fluency. Stuttering has almost went away, but sometimes I have trouble finding my words. Those are the most noticeable symptoms. I wouldn't be surprised if other things such as fine motor skills and reaction times are negatively affected. Since NSI-189 enhances neurogenesis significantly in the hippocampus, I thought that low dose (10mg NSI-189 phosphate) would help with my memory. I have ordered some lithium orotate so I will definitely be using that.
 

Edited by extendcel, 16 January 2018 - 07:23 AM.