6219 replies to this topic

[mindovermatter]

 

Has anyone used both nsi-189 phosphate and freebase? Were there side effects and differences in effectiveness from one to the other?

About two years ago I used phosphate and had incredible results, I was learning faster than I ever had, felt more confident than ever, verbal memory was incredible. Recently was using some NSI-189 phosphate from ebay and was extremely tired but still functional but did not have the dramatic results I was expecting from the previous trial however it did allow me to use ritalin without getting overstimulated which is one of the effects I was looking for. I have recently just started Strangelove's freebase however it itself is making me fairly anxious and I am feeling very over stimulated if I take stimulant meds, but also tired which is making it hard to find a balance.

 

As you know NSI-189 can really boost stimulants, have you reduced dose for both? If yes, how much?

 

Do you have an emotional upheaval these days? Its a major reason to get extra anxiety from NSI-189. Some get calm and have positive thoughts, and few can get into an overthinking state, feeling they have to quickly solve a current problem. I was getting a lot of anxiety from NSI-189 when I was unsecure financially, I had to add tianeptine and small doses of etizolam those days to make a difference.

 

I can ship phosphate for the same $24/16gram price, but I am not sure there is a difference. Although (oral) phosphate has a smoother onset. 

 

Just thinking a post from a member before, there is anyway what I sent you is stronger and you might overdosing?

 

 

I have been using as little as 5mg ritalin or 18mg concerta and have felt overstimulated, in a similar way as to take concerta solo which I can't handle. If i take cipralex I can easily take upwards of 54mg concerta without being overstimulated.

 

The first time I used nsi-189 was to deal with withdrawal symptoms from the cipralex, however I noted during that time that my cognitive function was arguably the best it ever was, especially with regards to working and procedural memory. I was hoping the NSI this time would be able to counteract the anxiety and improve cognition allowing me to use concerta, however that may not be the case. I am also using hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue and that definitely plays into the overstimulation. 

 

I'm not sure I would call it an emotional upheaval, but I am certainly very stressed so perhaps that is what is causing my issues combined with the nsi-189.

 

I will try lowering the dosage and see how that goes!

[pheanix997]

 

 

Has anyone used both nsi-189 phosphate and freebase? Were there side effects and differences in effectiveness from one to the other?

About two years ago I used phosphate and had incredible results, I was learning faster than I ever had, felt more confident than ever, verbal memory was incredible. Recently was using some NSI-189 phosphate from ebay and was extremely tired but still functional but did not have the dramatic results I was expecting from the previous trial however it did allow me to use ritalin without getting overstimulated which is one of the effects I was looking for. I have recently just started Strangelove's freebase however it itself is making me fairly anxious and I am feeling very over stimulated if I take stimulant meds, but also tired which is making it hard to find a balance.

 

As you know NSI-189 can really boost stimulants, have you reduced dose for both? If yes, how much?

 

Do you have an emotional upheaval these days? Its a major reason to get extra anxiety from NSI-189. Some get calm and have positive thoughts, and few can get into an overthinking state, feeling they have to quickly solve a current problem. I was getting a lot of anxiety from NSI-189 when I was unsecure financially, I had to add tianeptine and small doses of etizolam those days to make a difference.

 

I can ship phosphate for the same $24/16gram price, but I am not sure there is a difference. Although (oral) phosphate has a smoother onset. 

 

Just thinking a post from a member before, there is anyway what I sent you is stronger and you might overdosing?

 

 

I have been using as little as 5mg ritalin or 18mg concerta and have felt overstimulated, in a similar way as to take concerta solo which I can't handle. If i take cipralex I can easily take upwards of 54mg concerta without being overstimulated.

 

The first time I used nsi-189 was to deal with withdrawal symptoms from the cipralex, however I noted during that time that my cognitive function was arguably the best it ever was, especially with regards to working and procedural memory. I was hoping the NSI this time would be able to counteract the anxiety and improve cognition allowing me to use concerta, however that may not be the case. I am also using hydrocortisone for adrenal fatigue and that definitely plays into the overstimulation. 

 

I'm not sure I would call it an emotional upheaval, but I am certainly very stressed so perhaps that is what is causing my issues combined with the nsi-189.

 

I will try lowering the dosage and see how that goes!

 

Do you need to take the Concerta? Is it for ADD? I have ADD and I take my adderall in the morning, and NSI-189 at night. I notice NSI-189 working just as good as if I took it in the morning, but with less over-stimulation.

[bitborg]

Just writing my experience with NSI-189 from strangelove's batch. I have been taking it for about 40 days now,

 

Age: 27

 

The effect accumulates for me and the changes are more positive the longer I was on it.

 

+ Before NSI, I was overthinking in an almost thought-looping kind of way. NSI had removed that kind of thinking and am grateful for it.

+ Child like emotions, I feel more optimistic and motivated for the future

+ I have quit alcohol 3 months ago and it really seems to help me motivated not to drink

 

I am taking it sublingually at 20-30mg each day (took 20mg at the evening about 3 times for a small boost). I tried taking 40mg at once but I started getting side effects similar to disorientation but by taking less I didn't have this problem. 

 

I feel as if I am a strong responder and am very happy with its effect on me. I have been searching for something like this since I got into nootropics 4 years ago. 

[mindovermatter]

pheanix997

 

I do need the concerta and feel especially bogged down without it. I will try your approach and take the nsi-189 at night and see how it goes with the concerta in the morning.

 

[snaxe]

Has anyone done any long-term experimentations with both the phosphate and free base? I'm interested to know if there are any differences. 

[Mind_Paralysis]

Just writing my experience with NSI-189 from strangelove's batch. I have been taking it for about 40 days now,

 

I am taking it sublingually at 20-30mg each day (took 20mg at the evening about 3 times for a small boost). I tried taking 40mg at once but I started getting side effects similar to disorientation but by taking less I didn't have this problem. 

 

 

This part there sounds rather curious... It's not something I've seen reported among the more common side-effects of NSI-189 - anxiety and over-stimulation, neuropathic pain, seems to be the most common ones - you're the first one I've seen who reported this.

 

As I understand it, the ability to orientate yourself in the environment is connected to the brains ability to create and maintain 'mental imagery', which I am not certain which part of the brain controls, but it is the key feature of orientation it would appear.

 

http://www.cambridge...t/rotation-task

 

Could you describe this side-effect a bit more closely? Like, give some examples of strange happenings wherein your cognition couldn't do what it ussually does - like, did you have trouble finding your way back home after visiting the mall, or something like that?
 

Also interesting that it seems to be dose-dependent...

[Acausal]

Well this is interesting, without an increase or change in dosage, it seems that I've finally begun to experience some of the stimulation people have been talking about. I had been wondering if maybe the slightly sedating feeling I'd been getting was from active neurogenesis, something akin to feeling sort of tired when you're healing a wound or fighting off an infection or something. Body working behind the scenes making one tired and all that.

I had suspected I'd reached a sort of equilibrium point as I was feeling fairly recovered from the stress and depression induced brain fog - I actually forgot to refill my regular antidepressant for about a week due to financial and logistics concerns, and didn't notice the difference much. (Not that I'm not back on it, I'm not playing dice with my mood in this instance) Anyway, a couple of days ago or so I started feeling the stimulating, almost agitating effect everyone had been talking about. It's interesting, definitely a subjective change despite the dosage and everything else about my regimen remaining the same. This continues to be a surprising compound.

[stargazer]

Strangelove, I've sent you a PM.

[Strangelove]

 

Just writing my experience with NSI-189 from strangelove's batch. I have been taking it for about 40 days now,

 

I am taking it sublingually at 20-30mg each day (took 20mg at the evening about 3 times for a small boost). I tried taking 40mg at once but I started getting side effects similar to disorientation but by taking less I didn't have this problem. 

 

 

This part there sounds rather curious... It's not something I've seen reported among the more common side-effects of NSI-189 - anxiety and over-stimulation, neuropathic pain, seems to be the most common ones - you're the first one I've seen who reported this.

 

As I understand it, the ability to orientate yourself in the environment is connected to the brains ability to create and maintain 'mental imagery', which I am not certain which part of the brain controls, but it is the key feature of orientation it would appear.

 

http://www.cambridge...t/rotation-task

 

Could you describe this side-effect a bit more closely? Like, give some examples of strange happenings wherein your cognition couldn't do what it ussually does - like, did you have trouble finding your way back home after visiting the mall, or something like that?
 

Also interesting that it seems to be dose-dependent...

 

 

It depends how everyone will use a word, if disorientation means feeling "foggy" its a side effect of NSI-189, its not commonly a problem as it goes away by lowering the dose, using it less often or goes away on its own as days go by. Side effects with NSI-189 are relatively rare, and are very dose dependent, anyones that have side effects, lower your dose. If does not cover your depressive symptoms good enough (or not be happy with its nootropic effect) use an adjunct as tianeptine (my favorite) PRL-8-53, or noopept.

[dmmbbs]

I PMed Strangelove, but the costs including shipping was a little more than I can afford, as I am jobless as of now. So I ordered from alibaba.com and a certain Changzhou Confucius Biotechnologies sold me some NSI-189 phosphate. It is yet to arrive. The description on their product page looked legit, but can I trust it and ingest what they sent? Has anyone shopped on alibaba before?

Edited by dmmbbs, 08 September 2016 - 02:25 PM.

[bitborg]

So the way I would explain this disorientation feeling is if I feel like im in a fog, ever so slightly i feel as if I am in a dream (not as dramatic as it sounds). Almost as if its a micro of a micro dose of LSD. No trouble at all in terms of finding my way home or atleast it has not changed.

Edited by Benjamin Segal, 08 September 2016 - 05:04 PM.

[IP3]

Did you see any improvment in ADD symptoms using nsi? I cannot handle methylphenidate due to side effects and i would like to take nsi (noradrenaline) with dopaminergic (tianeptine, amantidine) to achieve similiar effects on attention and executive functions without jitterness and anxiety. Any positive sories?

[mindovermatter]

Did you see any improvment in ADD symptoms using nsi? I cannot handle methylphenidate due to side effects and i would like to take nsi (noradrenaline) with dopaminergic (tianeptine, amantidine) to achieve similiar effects on attention and executive functions without jitterness and anxiety. Any positive sories?

From experience, I would attest that nsi-189 does not influence noradrenaline pathways, at least not in the prefrontal cortex which is where ADHD medications typically target, like strattera for example. Do you have any information that would lead you to that conclusion?

 

Have you tried amantadine? Or memantine? There is a significant amount of information on memantine on this board, however it is a very drawn-out process of getting to a useful dosage but those that actually stick to it for 8+ weeks appear to have good results but don't take my word on that. 

[fntms]

I PMed Strangelove, but the costs including shipping was a little more than I can afford, as I am jobless as of now. So I ordered from alibaba.com and a certain Changzhou Confucius Biotechnologies sold me some NSI-189 phosphate. It is yet to arrive. The description on their product page looked legit, but can I trust it and ingest what they sent? Has anyone shopped on alibaba before?

I have bought powders on Alibaba, without testing them I would say that they were legit, based on effects. But get it tested (not that easy and perhaps too expensive) for true peace of mind and report here if possible. I don't think they would send anything dangerous but perhaps with mediocre purity, who knows?

[Acausal]

I personally have noticed no effects on ADHD one way or another from NSI, to be honest. If anything, maybe a tiny bit less focused. It's done wonders for my stress-induced depression and fatigue though. I'm feeling if not back to normal then at least significant improvement. I feel like it's having some effects in other ways, though. I'm noticing that I've been revisiting a lot of old memories, something that started with PRL-8-53 but definitely increased in frequency with the NSI-189. Some sort of memory consolidation/efficiency effect maybe? I don't notice a big effect on my working short-term recall, but something that's kind of difficult to articulate....it's easier to put things into context or framework now? New information seems to be a little easier to convert from isolated fact to abstraction, I suppose. It's hard to say, since it's so subjective, and I wouldn't really even know how to measure that.

I find that the majority of nootropics don't tend to tackle ADHD symptoms head-on, however. The ones that are the most effective for me usually bolster my coping mechanisms and workarounds rather than directly affecting my executive function. That's fine for me, as my meds do a somewhat-decent job at addressing the symptoms directly, they simply don't do enough by themselves to bring me up to a parity with someone who is neurotypical, in terms of being a functional human who can manage their time. Thus additional supplements and experimenting.

[IP3]

Mindovermater: I red in this topic that nsi is strong noradrenaline inhibitor. So i thought that it act like atomoxetine or at least tlpd.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

I'm trying to figure out why I reacted so badly to NSI189--dysautonomia, labored breathing, low body temp, all of which seemed aggravated by ingesting calcium, esp. the fortified kind added to coconut milk.

I've since had a worsening of dysautonomia and progressive worsening of insomnia to the point of getting little to no sleep. Google says, sporadic prion disease.

When I google dysautonomia and calcium, I find this... http://www.jbc.org/c...5/47/36542.full

I can't make sense of it but it seems to involve the hippocampus and calcium signalling. If anyone has any insight, it'd be greatly appreciated.

[wanderlust]

are you taking any other medications alongside your nsi-189?

at what dosages ?

 

 I would   point out that your self-diagnosis of  dysautonomia is a (theory),not a fact.

you acted upon that theory  with calcium which did not work which suggests that your theory was wrong.

 

i would suggest sticking to the facts and remembering when a guess is a guess (everyone makes this mistake from time to time)

 

try taking. cats claw ,lions mane  and green tea extract and some kill oil.(really should be taking these already if taking nsi -189)

 

 

"Fillet of a fenny snake, In the cauldron boil and bake; Eye of newt and toe of frog, Wool of bat and tongue of dog, Adder's fork and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg and owlet's wing, For a charm of powerful trouble, Like a hell-broth boil and bubble."

 

Shakespeare's Macbeth.

 

I'm trying to figure out why I reacted so badly to NSI189--dysautonomia, labored breathing, low body temp, all of which seemed aggravated by ingesting calcium, esp. the fortified kind added to coconut milk.

I've since had a worsening of dysautonomia and progressive worsening of insomnia to the point of getting little to no sleep. Google says, sporadic prion disease.

When I google dysautonomia and calcium, I find this... http://www.jbc.org/c...5/47/36542.full

I can't make sense of it but it seems to involve the hippocampus and calcium signalling. If anyone has any insight, it'd be greatly appreciated.

 

Edited by wanderlust, 10 September 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[Omega 3 Snake Oil]

 

are you taking any other medications alongside your nsi-189?

at what dosages ?

 

 I would   point out that your self-diagnosis of  dysautonomia is a (theory),not a fact.

you acted upon that theory  with calcium which did not work which suggests that your theory was wrong.

 

 

An internist diagnosed me with POTS, which is a kind of autonomic dysfunction. So, it's not in my head, and not self-diagnosed.

Since taking the NSI a single time in March, I've had bad reactions to almost anything that affects brain function, inc. selegiline and ALCAR and BCAAs. I'm positive the dysautonomia is related to the insomnia. They've gotten worse in step with one another.

Had a sleep study done recently which showed sleep apnea but only when I'm on my back. Laying on my side the apnea isn't an issue. This all began in May.

[macropsia]

Toying with the idea of trying NSI at some point in the future. I'm also trying to get on pregabalin, or at least baclofen, as they seem to treat some sort of glutamate/gaba-related restlessness which may or may not have been caused by 'S'SRI use or a bad run-in with some metoclopramide. 

Has anyone used NSI therewith? I'm imagining it would be important to keep somewhat constant levels of lyrica as I've seen some worrisome/possibly excitotoxic situations arise from the use of stimulating compounds by VGCa ion channel-blocker dependent persons with low plasma levels (well, one person, a gabapentin user, two incidents). I seem to recall that one of the people who had a strong negative reaction to NSI may have been on gabapentin.

Ideally the lyrica would just cut already-existing somatic anxiety, as well as preventing side-effects, but this is speculative.

Anyone familiar with NSI with anything on the baclofen/phenibut/gabapentin/pregabalin/tolibut/sodium oxybate spectrum? 

[focus83]

Toying with the idea of trying NSI at some point in the future. I'm also trying to get on pregabalin, or at least baclofen, as they seem to treat some sort of glutamate/gaba-related restlessness which may or may not have been caused by 'S'SRI use or a bad run-in with some metoclopramide. 

Has anyone used NSI therewith? I'm imagining it would be important to keep somewhat constant levels of lyrica as I've seen some worrisome/possibly excitotoxic situations arise from the use of stimulating compounds by VGCa ion channel-blocker dependent persons with low plasma levels (well, one person, a gabapentin user, two incidents). I seem to recall that one of the people who had a strong negative reaction to NSI may have been on gabapentin.

Ideally the lyrica would just cut already-existing somatic anxiety, as well as preventing side-effects, but this is speculative.

Anyone familiar with NSI with anything on the baclofen/phenibut/gabapentin/pregabalin/tolibut/sodium oxybate spectrum? 

 

You are pretty much dead-on. I've used NSI-189 with Pregabalin with great success. Pregabalin counteracted the NSI induced anxiety and stimulation really well and I can only encourage people to try this combination if they find NSI-189 too anxiogenic.

Edited by focus83, 10 September 2016 - 05:49 PM.

[jack black]

I PMed Strangelove, but the costs including shipping was a little more than I can afford, as I am jobless as of now. So I ordered from alibaba.com and a certain Changzhou Confucius Biotechnologies sold me some NSI-189 phosphate. It is yet to arrive. The description on their product page looked legit, but can I trust it and ingest what they sent? Has anyone shopped on alibaba before?

 

please keep us posted. i wouldn't mind trying something like that.
 

[bijao~]

Does anyone have an estimate on the shelf life of NSI?

 

I have an envelope of it thats been sitting under my desk for about 8 months untouched, haven't had the time to try it.

Would taking a dose be wise?

[Strangelove]

Does anyone have an estimate on the shelf life of NSI?

 

I have an envelope of it thats been sitting under my desk for about 8 months untouched, haven't had the time to try it.

Would taking a dose be wise?

 

Yes, should be OK to use. Especially phosphate should have about three extra years in self life.

 

I do not see degrading into something toxic either...

[rc_ich]

Really interested in purchasing NSI-189. Can pay via Bitcoin - will only deal with members I deem trusted.

[bugsbunny]

NSI-189 wasnt bad at all, but I had pain in bodyparts like foot, that remained some time after quiting. I wouldnt call these effects "beginner friendly" or good for a regular supplementation. Already weakened persons might have a bad time handling the mania that can occure. I also noticed a multiplied tendency to smoke and drink to cover up the side effects. I recommend to try Coluracetam + Choline first for a nice mood and memory boost.

 

Every day

 

Every day

 

 

beginner friendly

beginner friendly

 

beginner friendly

 

 

[IP3]

Did effects on mood peresist after withdrawn of drug? (After two months of treatment?)

[rc_ich]

Hey Strangelove, sent payment; waiting for a response 

[linlin92]

I am really impressed with NSI-189 so far! This is my first week into it though and I think it has helped my study a lot. Distracted way less often, could go for longer without checking my phone and best of all I remember just about everything that I have read. Excellent!

 

I am going to add a TINY amount of noopept (12mg) and tianeptine salt (12mg) with my dose tomorrow and see how it goes. This is because I have a long day of uni and work and I don't want the NSI-189 to make me feel tired one bit.

 

If that doesn't work there's always coffee and armodafinil!

[linlin92]

So I am one week exactly into my NSI-189 journey and all in all I just have good things to say about this substance!

 

Initially my dosage was sublingual 12mg NSI-189 phosphate before I head out the door for uni. Then orally another 12mg NSI-189 (in a capsule) just before my morning snack. Then I added noopept to help with cognition and now as I enter the second week I am thinking of bumping my NSI-189 dosage to 20mg.

 

Good effects so far:

- Positive thinking and being in a terrific mood just about all the time. I used to be a stress head especially with pending exams but I am now calm, collected and motivated. I honestly haven't consistently felt this way in years.

- Learning and memory retention has improved a lot. This is only becoming apparent from the 6th day but I just done an assignment without needing to refer to my lecture notes, and it didn't feel like a brain drain to do either.

- Increased energy at the gym? I seem to get more and more energetic as the workout went on which is super intriguing. I literally had to force myself to leave the gym.

- Appreciate music, food, life! I think I made bad decision in trying mdma when I was little younger because for the longest while I didn't want to listen to anything and food tasted kind of bland. Now I am definitely eating more (hopefully not too much though) and playing tunes when I am driving in my car, and it sounds terrific.

 

Negative effects so far:

- Pain! What the hell is with that!? On the third day I went to bed after my usual stretches and had this cramp/stinging sensation along my thigh. And for the last two days my left elbow hurts. I've am taking magnesium and fish oil capsules just in case. So I am just thinking, would adding a nmda antagonist like memantine help with this weird pain side effect?

- Tiredness. Because I had to take naps in my car at lunch before my prac/lab sessions, I decided to put a stop to that by adding 100mg modafinil to the mix which I take as soon as I wake up. So far so good.

- Sleep. I don't know if my sleep quality has been affected, causing the above mentioned tiredness. Just in case I have started taking 3g glycine and 3mg melatonin at night.

 

Today I have tried 150mg phenylpiracetam and 1g Choline bitartrate before I went to the gym and I felt phenomenal I was scared at first it would have a bad effect from what I have read in this thread but I believe the choline helped, along with the fact I have stuck with low dosages. I am interested in trying 20mg coluracetam with choline next because that is one of my favourite noots. Then I will slowly incorporate tianeptine sodium as well because that stuff makes me so seriously happy its amazing.

 

So anyway I thought I share my initial experience here. Fingers crossed for more improvements to report in the weeks to come!

 

Edit: So this popped up in my feed - Neuralstem Presented NSI-189 Preclinical Data in Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes at the Annual Meeting of the Diabetic Neuropathy Study Group http://finance.yahoo...-123200826.html. "NSI-189, Neuralstem’s lead neurogenic compound, is in a Phase 2b multi-center trial for the treatment of major depressive disorder (MDD). The company expects to report results in the second half of 2017"

Edited by linlin92, 20 September 2016 - 10:59 AM.