6219 replies to this topic

[mamborambo]

Has anybody tried NSI-189 for seasonal depression?

I live in the Pacific Northwest and get it every year around November. Just about 10 years now.

I've been through the all the other bells and whistles the medical community could throw at me. Anti-depressants, light therapy, therapy etc.

No positive results, but plenty of side effects from the anti-depressants. I have always exercised and my diet is top notch and get outdoors alot. But come November I just want to dig a hole and come out in April.

I've read most of this thread and don't recall any specific seasonal issues.

Might be willing to give it a shot even if I am the first.

have you tried vitamin d supplementation? your body produces vitamin only with enough sun light. vitamin d levels drop in the winter months. a lack of vitamin d can cause depression. you need at least 50 nanograms of vitamin d per milliliter. a lot of doctors wont treat vitamin d deficiency if you have more than 30 nanograms per milliliter. you could get a blood test done if you havent done that already.

 

 

but you can also try nsi. I love the stuff and recommend it to everybody and I believe that it will change how we treat depression and other mental ilnesses.  

[ADinHD]

I wanted to update my experience thus far. Today is day 40 and in a previous post you can see my background and reasons why I am taking this. I also currently take zoloft, strattera and recently trazodone. This is interesting stuff.  The mood improvement is noticeable, but it comes with the drawback of increased anxiety. My doc upped my zoloft and that seemed to help with the anxiety somewhat. Also, NSI has the effect of making my sleep horrible. Lots of dreams, but I wake up every 1-2 hrs. Intolerable for me. So I went to my pdoc and he prescribed me trazodone, which seems to be helping.  Dosing with this seems to be very important, the right dose and the anti-depresssant effect is there with very little anxiety, too high of a dose and the anxiety and intense thinking is too much. Too little and it doesn't lift the fog in my brain.

Now for the really good part, the cognitive effects have been dramatic.  The very very heavy brain fog which I've had for the last 15 years has essentially lifted. With that has come a dramatic improvement in speech with regards to verbal memory and remembering what I am saying and talking about. very dramatic. However weeks of chronic insomnia diminished this effect so I started taking trazodone a week ago to help with sleep and it seems to be working pretty well.  My prospective memory which is virtually non-existent has improved only slightly, though I do find myself randomly forgetting and remembering some things, but this isn't unusual for me.  It also has the effect of causing me to think intensely about things, which is annoying,and actually aggravates my adhd because I look at something and go off into la la land. Overall however, the cognitive effect is hands-down the best of anything I have ever tried and is nothing short of miraculous.  My regimen isn't perfect and I am still doing some minor tweaks, but overall this has been a HUGE change in my life, and a huge move in a positive direction. I feel as though I have a chance of getting some of my old cognitive function back.  People have noticed and seem surprised when I open my mouth and no longer stammer stutter, mispronounce words, or slur my speech.   Also my creativity and wit has improved. It's not perfect, but so so very worth it.  I currently take 35mg in am, 25mg at night of the phosphate orally. sublingual base is too intense, up and then back down. Aside from getting sober 2 years ago and married this year, this could be the best thing that has happened to me in the last few years.

[ADinHD]

The NSI-189 from Wild Distributions has a melting point of 88 degrees C. That's about one hundred degrees lower than it should be based on the crudest calculations (not very accurate), and 80 degrees lower than the tested form posted here.

 

I'm thinking the phosphate addition would increase the melting point, so this item may be freebase.

 

Caveat: My mel-temp is 99% accurate with sucrose (188 C reported vs. 186 defined) , but that accuracy may be lower/higher at temperatures around 88 degrees C.

 

So I'm paying out of pocket to FT-IR the sample.

 

 

 

just as an fyi I contacted aexenic, the company who "makes it" and they said it is indeed the base and they sent me the COA, which had the name of the Chinese manufacturer who seems to make all the NSI(both phosphate and base) that's out there

[jefferson]

The NSI-189 from Wild Distributions has a melting point of 88 degrees C. That's about one hundred degrees lower than it should be based on the crudest calculations (not very accurate), and 80 degrees lower than the tested form posted here.

 

I'm thinking the phosphate addition would increase the melting point, so this item may be freebase.

 

Caveat: My mel-temp is 99% accurate with sucrose (188 C reported vs. 186 defined) , but that accuracy may be lower/higher at temperatures around 88 degrees C.

 

So I'm paying out of pocket to FT-IR the sample.

 

The melting points for the VLK and Nyles NSI came back as 175 C. We also have the FTIR for their products too, which were nearly a match. It can be found on this page, http://www.longecity...nsi-189/page-68. VLK's at least, does NOT come from the Chinese company.

 

Maybe you already know this, but just making you aware.

Edited by jefferson, 09 October 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Logic]

I also stopped taking the NSI-189 about a month ago because of the anxiety it caused. The first time I used the NSI, I was still on wellbutrin and zoloft and the NSI was great. I became more motivated to do things I hadn't done for a long time, which also made me feel better and I also started becoming more outgoing and relaxed around people. Every day while taking it things just seemed to get a little bit better. I was very happy with the results and thought that for me, NSI was the answer. Then I ran out of my supply and had to wait for the group buy to deliver. THANKS VLK! In the meantime, I stopped taking my anti-D meds, because it was almost spring and I try every year to quit the meds, but have usually had to go back to them in the fall. So I had been off the meds for at least 3 months when I got more NSI. I started taking it without the meds and the anxiety just began to build until I had to quit using it. I even ran a cycle of cerebrolysin to try and relieve the anxiety, which lessened it somewhat. Shortly after quiting the NSI, I went back on the meds. It has been a month since I started taking the meds again and I still have a fair amount of NSI left. My plan is to wait another month, then try the NSI, while still taking my meds. By that time I will also have more cerebrolysin. Cerebrolysin, by itself, is enough to relieve my depression and other mental problems, but the cost and injections are too much for me to maintain.

Have you tried low dose Lithium?
Magnesium Orotate?
FOS, Inulin, RS?

[JASOG888]

I have some Magnesium l-threonate, but I never felt any effect from it. I have not tried lithium and am not sure what the others you mentioned are. On a positive note, I have tried selank and like the effects however they are mild.

[mamborambo]

 

Have you tried low dose Lithium?
Magnesium Orotate?
FOS, Inulin, RS?

 

lithium orotate relieved the anxiety for me.

[Babychris]

is it a positive anxiety or a paralysing anxiety ? And does the effect feel natural ? Does it induce fatigue (I hate that). 

[Turnbuckle]

I've taken NSI-189 for six days now at the 40 mg level and I'm not sure if its effects rise above the placebo level. If it does, it's like a light dose of piracetam and a cup of half-decaf coffee. It's effects on mood were slightly positive at first, then slightly negative on later days, and it's effect on memory might be slightly positive. All in all, no socks have been knocked off.

[mamborambo]

I've taken NSI-189 for six days now at the 40 mg level and I'm not sure if its effects rise above the placebo level. If it does, it's like a light dose of piracetam and a cup of half-decaf coffee. It's effects on mood were slightly positive at first, then slightly negative on later days, and it's effect on memory might be slightly positive. All in all, no socks have been knocked off.

what do you expect after six days? take it for 60 days and then wait another 30 days and then you can make a good judgement.

Edited by mamborambo, 14 October 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

 

Hello. What do u guys think? Is it worth to test it on my negative symptoms (apathy, anhedonia, avolition, no positive symptoms)? 

 

try it...it changed my life!

 

 

 

 

I've taken NSI-189 for six days now at the 40 mg level and I'm not sure if its effects rise above the placebo level. If it does, it's like a light dose of piracetam and a cup of half-decaf coffee. It's effects on mood were slightly positive at first, then slightly negative on later days, and it's effect on memory might be slightly positive. All in all, no socks have been knocked off.

what do you expect after six days? take it for 60 days and then wait another 30 days and then you can make a good judgement.

 

 

Ah, a true believer, eh? I'm reporting my experience at six days, which I clearly indicated, and made no overall judgement. I noticed that you posed your experience after 2 & 3 days--which were not positive--and then nothing until the above comment. I gather that "life changing" aspect for you was a reduction of anxiety, which is not a problem for me. I'm only taking it for the potential memory aspect, and will report on that in the future if there is any improvement.

[mamborambo]

 

 

Hello. What do u guys think? Is it worth to test it on my negative symptoms (apathy, anhedonia, avolition, no positive symptoms)? 

 

try it...it changed my life!

 

 

 

 

I've taken NSI-189 for six days now at the 40 mg level and I'm not sure if its effects rise above the placebo level. If it does, it's like a light dose of piracetam and a cup of half-decaf coffee. It's effects on mood were slightly positive at first, then slightly negative on later days, and it's effect on memory might be slightly positive. All in all, no socks have been knocked off.

what do you expect after six days? take it for 60 days and then wait another 30 days and then you can make a good judgement.

 

 

Ah, a true believer, eh? I'm reporting my experience at six days, which I clearly indicated, and made no overall judgement. I noticed that you posed your experience after 2 & 3 days--which were not positive--and then nothing until the above comment. I gather that "life changing" aspect for you was a reduction of anxiety, which is not a problem for me. I'm only taking it for the potential memory aspect, and will report on that in the future if there is any improvement.

 

first of all, sorry if i came across as rude. it wasnt my intention to attack you in any way.

the reduction of anxiety had nothing to do with nsi. i wrote that i took lithium orotate and that it helped with the anxiety that nsi induced. i think i wasnt really clear about that. about the life changing results for me:

 

no more depression

much more self esteem

i stay calm and collected  (of course not always...but I think i have more controll over my emotions)

positive outlook on the world

 

 

I must admit that i dont think that nsi changed or improved my memory ... but to be honest i didnt really look out for that. looking forward to see your results with the memory aspects of nsi. good luck with that

[Turnbuckle]

I must admit that i dont think that nsi changed or improved my memory ... but to be honest i didnt really look out for that. looking forward to see your results with the memory aspects of nsi. good luck with that

 

 

Apparently it does work for most people—about 70%. The 23 poll respondents saying they’d taken it for memory reported the following results—

 

22% said it was life changing

26% said it was very helpful

22% said it was a little helpful

22% said it was neutral

9% said it was very harmful 

 

Though it's possible some taking it for memory are reporting results in some other area. And this is likely for those reporting harmful effects.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 14 October 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Babychris]

What are your source ? I'm ready to try it I think that will be better than the dulling ssri's...

[ovecta]

Can it be combined with other antidepressants? I've been taking the phosphate form (30mgx2 daily) since last week, the first few days I noticed an increase in depression and anxiety, things seem to be getting better but I'm thinking of combining it with escitalopram(SSRI).

 

Anyone have experience combining both?

[jefferson]

 

I must admit that i dont think that nsi changed or improved my memory ... but to be honest i didnt really look out for that. looking forward to see your results with the memory aspects of nsi. good luck with that

 

 

Apparently it does work for most people—about 70%. The 23 poll respondents saying they’d taken it for memory reported the following results—

 

22% said it was life changing

26% said it was very helpful

22% said it was a little helpful

22% said it was neutral

9% said it was very harmful 

 

Though it's possible some taking it for memory are reporting results in some other area. And this is likely for those reporting harmful effects.

 

 

It's hard to interpret the significance of the poll. For reasons I mentioned in that thread, there are biases that are almost certainly leading to overly positive responses. The biggest one is probably the lack of a placebo controlled group. The placebo effect might be even greater for this group than normal randomized controlled trials because the people here might expect more benefit after reading all about the hopeful things like hippocampal volume increases. Placebo responses are routinely 10 points on the MADRS after a couple months, and the more people expect to benefit the stronger the placebo becomes, so it's not something to easily dismiss. That's true of depression, I don't how large the placebo effect is for memory trials, though I find it unlikely many people here have Alzheimer's or dementia versus "lesser" memory problems like MCI or depression induced cognitive dysfunction, which would respond more positively to placebo it seems, especially in lieu of an authentic memory test.

 

Another problem is possible selective bias-- the ones who take the time to do the poll might've had more positive responses than a bunch of people who had neutral or even negative responses. I know I've read of people's experiences on this thread who had bad anxiety and stopped taking it, yet don't seem to have done the poll. Real trials would have had everyone take the poll and try to account for dropouts who didn't, although no one would use such a simple thing over the MADRS or HAM-D, which is another problem.

 

Now I'm not saying NSI-189 is bunk, it might have real anti-depressant effects, we'll have to wait for Neuralstem to finish their trials. But a poll like this is of limited use in answering that question, except maybe if you're curious about possible side-effects (not the same thing as evaluating safety). 

[JASOG888]

is it a positive anxiety or a paralysing anxiety ? And does the effect feel natural ? Does it induce fatigue (I hate that). 

 

For me, it was more of a paralysing anxiety. I must also say that I had just started a new job, using instruments which I had no previous experience with, and the expectations placed on me were very high(aside from those I always place on myself). I was struggling with learning the new job, and was strictly evaluated after 4 months, at which time I was not "up to speed". That was the time I stopped taking the NSI. By 6 months on the job, I was doing fine, and am now considered "above average".  So even without the NSI I would have experienced a fairly high degree of anxiety.  I also did not participate in the poll, but honestly believe the NSI is something useful for my depression, based on my first experience using it. For me, under the circumstances above, it was not very useful as an axiolytic.

[Logic]

...not sure what the others you mentioned are.

http://www.google.co...s mental health

[VICREP]

Hi guys.

I have read through this thread and very intrigued by what NSI-189 could offer me personally.

As you can tell if you have read any of my threads, I have been struggling with mood issues, anhedonia, memory problems, libido problems, attention deficit, etc.

I'm actually excited just at the thought of trying this out. Chronic stress really took its toll on me and I know that I have impaired my brain because of it. A series of failed medications has lead me to here.

This forum had actually been the biggest help in getting me over my problems.

I'll definitely be in for the next opportunity of a group buy. I'm in the process of getting off dextroamphetamine, and this could really guide me out of the darkness.

Great forum, great information. Always helpful replies

[Hungry Hippo]

Can it be combined with other antidepressants? I've been taking the phosphate form (30mgx2 daily) since last week, the first few days I noticed an increase in depression and anxiety, things seem to be getting better but I'm thinking of combining it with escitalopram(SSRI).

 

Anyone have experience combining both?

 

I combined it with Wellbutrin, Valdoxan and Selegiline. No problems.

 

When I run out of NSI and had to wait for a new patch, I started with Wellbutrin (Bupropion). No problems when I took both when I got new NSI, although I felt a bit druggy, but that would be the Wellbutrin I guess. It seemed a good idea to stop with the Wellbutrin because I did it rather good on 35 mg NSI. I wanted the Wellbutrin as a backup plan for when I ran out of NSI again and coudn't get new.

 

My sleep is problematic and NSI changed it for better but I wanted it to be better and took Valdoxan with 20mg NSI. No problems here, but the Valdoxan did the opposite of what it had to do after six weeks and I stopped. At this moment I take 25mg NSI and want to go back to 40 mg. A dose less than 25 mg seems not that effective.

 

At the moment I'm taking two weeks 5mg Selegiline with 25 mg NSI and no problems other than starting up with the Selegiline. I have a very sensitive nervesystem, so the second and third week of medication are most of the times really bad for me (except Valdoxan and aminepitine).

 

I have no clue with what meds NSI can react for good or worse, but untill now I have the idea that anything goes. But, probably I'm wrong here.
 

[Hungry Hippo]

Can it be combined with other antidepressants? I've been taking the phosphate form (30mgx2 daily) since last week, the first few days I noticed an increase in depression and anxiety, things seem to be getting better but I'm thinking of combining it with escitalopram(SSRI).

 

Anyone have experience combining both?

 

Recently a letter has been send to psychiatrists and doctors to warn them that citalopram, so I presume also escitalopram, is very bad for the heart at doses of 20mg. For the record. I guess that my favorite AD is Emsam, transdermal selegiline patch. Love to try it, but not available in my country.
 

[titanxvx]

Thanks mamborambo for your suggestion, but I did have my Vit D levels checked early on and they are above normal. Possibly due to my supplementation of Vit D.

I've literally been to 3 different Docs with this and have been tested for, and prescribed a great deal of "solutions", in their opinion anyway. The last one was 2 years ago and I will never even bother with a Doctor for seasonal deppression again. IMO the've done more harm than help. I appreciate your input though.

i've decided to give NSI a run.

 

Has anybody tried NSI-189 for seasonal depression?

I live in the Pacific Northwest and get it every year around November. Just about 10 years now.

I've been through the all the other bells and whistles the medical community could throw at me. Anti-depressants, light therapy, therapy etc.

No positive results, but plenty of side effects from the anti-depressants. I have always exercised and my diet is top notch and get outdoors alot. But come November I just want to dig a hole and come out in April.

I've read most of this thread and don't recall any specific seasonal issues.

Might be willing to give it a shot even if I am the first.

have you tried vitamin d supplementation? your body produces vitamin only with enough sun light. vitamin d levels drop in the winter months. a lack of vitamin d can cause depression. you need at least 50 nanograms of vitamin d per milliliter. a lot of doctors wont treat vitamin d deficiency if you have more than 30 nanograms per milliliter. you could get a blood test done if you havent done that already.

 

 

but you can also try nsi. I love the stuff and recommend it to everybody and I believe that it will change how we treat depression and other mental ilnesses.  

 

 

[titanxvx]

So I decided to try NSI for my seasonal depression and have ordered and recieved my order.

But honestly how do you verify that you have received NSI-189? Is there a test that can be done?

I've used a variety of other nootropics before and all seem to be white or slightly off white powder that

taste like crap.

It just concerns me because at this pricepoint the chance of fraud is greatly increased.

 

[Fenix_]

So I decided to try NSI for my seasonal depression and have ordered and recieved my order.

But honestly how do you verify that you have received NSI-189? Is there a test that can be done?

I've used a variety of other nootropics before and all seem to be white or slightly off white powder that

taste like crap.

It just concerns me because at this pricepoint the chance of fraud is greatly increased.

 

You could always send a sample off to a lab for analysis, and post your results here Otherwise, we just have to trust that any misidentification of product would be quickly outed by the community here.

[Diego55]

I am interested in trying NSI-189, but I wonder if I really could benefit from taking this drug for my social anxiety and GAD disorders ? I also wonder if there is anyone who has already tried this drug primarily for anxiety issues with any success ?

I also read about a guy (he also suffers from severe social anxiety as I do) and he got very good response form taking: NSI-189 with Tianeptine, L-theanine and Piracetam Hydrazide in the long run. Here is a link to his stack :
http://www.longecity...nhancing-stack/

What are your ideas on this combination ? Thanks.

[hullcrush]

The sample of NSI-189 from eBay and Wild Distributions is likely NSI-189 freebase. It certainly is a novel compound.

-I'm not particularly adept at translating the raw data, so hopefully someone can confirm this.

 

-I work in a laboratory... I'm relatively new and didn't want to be testing grey market substances so I did a third-party analysis. Please visit my blog to donate or view my experiences with NSI-189 throughout.

 

[Babychris]

I came back again on tianeptine but this time combined with a weekly very low dose of prozac (10mg) to fight the increase OCD. That's weird sometimes tianeptine dull me and let me a bit depressed sometimes it's the best stuff ever. harf harf I have found that a little coluracetam before bed help to achieve the positive effect.

 

I'm really waiting my NSI to try this promising combo. I hope that I will not be too disapointed.

[Virtual Wolf]

Hey, just something I thought that may be noteworthy for some people to try.  I've been off NSI-189 now for at least a decent 2 months, I went off because of the increased anxiety.

However!  I decided to take a 20mg dose (in a capsule) earlier today to see the effect and I must say it produced a fairly non-placebo sense of wellbeing, I'd compare it to a lower dose of Benzodiazepines.

I'm wondering if anyone else has given this a try or not and what your experiences have been with a one off dose.

[MizTen]

That's similar to what I do now: following periods of high stress and\or overwork I take it for a few days, or sometimes up to 3 weeks at 30-40 mg twice a day with food. After a couple days of feeling good, I'll stop and not take again til needed. Several months can pass before I take it again.

Goes very well with Lion's Mane, high dose theanine 400-800 mg, exercise, small infrequent doses of high CBD cannabis, and certain meditative practices. These may be ameliorating the side effect of anxiety, because overall I don't notice the anxiety.

For me it has also become a definite enhancer of cognition and creativity.

It's unfortunate that some users did not get benefits or had too strong side effects.

[Babychris]

Can't wait to try it and hope that TLR stuff is legit...