22 replies to this topic

[Plasticperson]

Hello Longecitians,

Lately I've been supplementing with PS; specifically Vitamins shoppe's PS-sharp from. I really enjoy the supplement its been helping me recover from a concussion, substantially speeding up the whole recovery process. However, sometimes when i take a dose (usually 200mg x 2 times a day) I get the adverse reactions of sleepiness and low body temp. These effects don't happen every time and for the most part don't happen during the night time doses.

My questions to you: When do you guys take your PS doses? How big of a does do you take? Is there anyway to ameliorate the effects i have been getting? Does anyone recommend any more concussion supplements; I don't want to take any type of nootropic that messes too much with my brain chemistry such as piracetam? I'm only 19(hope this doesn't start a debate)

[unbeatableking]

PS reduces overall cortisol levels. Might explain the sleepiness and decrease in body temperature.

Sleepiness = decrease in cortisol corresponding with a decrease in stress.

A spike in body temperature is associated with cortisol-induced stress.

Edited by unbeatableking, 08 September 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[c60tester]

Does anyone know the best sources of PS? I heard the soy based one people usually take isn't as good as the cow brain derived one.
Could you get decent doses from eating certain foods with in it them daily?
http://en.wikipedia....Dietary_sources

[unbeatableking]

^

You're better off using D-Serine. This is the metabolic end-product of the serine pathway.

Phosphatidylserine ---> L-Serine ---> D-Serine <--- [This is what you want]

Supplementing with PS is inefficient because the total serine content of most PS supplements pales in comparison to their hydrocarbon linkages.

Plus the presence [or lack thereof] of the serine racemase enzyme serves as a rate-limiting reactant.

D-Serine is also cheaper. And yes, there are 'issues' with the quality of soy-extract PS supplements.

[airplanepeanuts]

^

You're better off using D-Serine. This is the metabolic end-product of the serine pathway.

Phosphatidylserine ---> L-Serine ---> D-Serine <--- [This is what you want]

That doesn't sound right to me. According to wikipedia:

Phosphatidylserine is biosynthesized in the body by condensing the amino acid serine with CDP^{[disambiguation needed]}-activated phosphatidic acid.

Personally I had good experience with PS for depersonalization. Been taking it for a year at 400mg per day. Maybe I will cut it out for some time in the future to see if I notice a difference.

[Plasticperson]

^

You're better off using D-Serine. This is the metabolic end-product of the serine pathway.

Phosphatidylserine ---> L-Serine ---> D-Serine <--- [This is what you want]

That doesn't sound right to me. According to wikipedia:

Phosphatidylserine is biosynthesized in the body by condensing the amino acid serine with CDP^{[disambiguation needed]}-activated phosphatidic acid.

Personally I had good experience with PS for depersonalization. Been taking it for a year at 400mg per day. Maybe I will cut it out for some time in the future to see if I notice a difference.

White leaves when do you take your PS? I usually take mine in the morning and right before bed. However, morning doses leave me tired about a hour later and before bed doses keep me from sleeping.

[unbeatableking]

^

You're better off using D-Serine. This is the metabolic end-product of the serine pathway.

Phosphatidylserine ---> L-Serine ---> D-Serine <--- [This is what you want]

That doesn't sound right to me. According to wikipedia:

Phosphatidylserine is biosynthesized in the body by condensing the amino acid serine with CDP^{[disambiguation needed]}-activated phosphatidic acid.

Personally I had good experience with PS for depersonalization. Been taking it for a year at 400mg per day. Maybe I will cut it out for some time in the future to see if I notice a difference.

What doesn't sound right?

You are referencing the metabolic pathway leading to the synthesis of the structural bi-lipid layer of cell membranes. This has nothing to do with the agonism of co-agonism of d-serine on NMDA receptors.

Phosphatidylserine is a phospholipid found within cell membranes. It is not analogous to L-serine. L-serine is the head group attached to the phosphate molecule.

The three carbon glycerol backbone of the phosphatidic acid molecule has no bearing on the cognitive effects of PS. If anything, the presence of this is one of the reasons why supplementing with PS as opposed to D-serine is inefficient.

Phosphatidylserine has no bearing on cognition. It is an end biomolecule that has to undergo catabolism in order to be utilized within the nervous system.

[airplanepeanuts]

@unbeatable

Can't follow you here, I am not a chemist or anything. If you know for sure that PS is worthless, give us some sources.

@ thread starter

I take at random times during the day, never noticed any tiredness. The immediate effects of PS are very subtle the most obvious thing for me being a better mental condition during excercise (lower cortisol I would guess).

[unbeatableking]

When did I say PS was useless?

The people here. -_-

[airplanepeanuts]

You said that it's inefficient. That is pretty close to worthless in my book. I want efficient stuff.

Edited by whitetealeaves, 09 September 2012 - 10:22 PM.

[gizmobrain]

If you are taking PS for depersonalization, I wonder if D-Serine may help in a more direct pathway, such as unbeatableking is referring to.

I always thought PS was more taken for brain cell health instead of neuroreceptor influence.

[airplanepeanuts]

Haha, just found that weeks ago in the d-serine thread unbeatable didn't even know the difference beween PS and D-Serine. And suddenly he is super knowledgeable. Seems like a joke to me.

[unbeatableking]

You said that it's inefficient. That is pretty close to worthless in my book. I want efficient stuff.

If you want to spend hundreds every year on a supplement with a dubious track-record then go ahead.

Yes. I admit that. But here's one thing I know: I know more than you do. I know better than to pull the process leading to the synthesis of membrane bound phosphatidylserine in order to refute the assumption that the d-serine pathway I posited is wrong.

I have not had the opportunity to look into the nomenclature separating PS and D-serine at that time, so I spent the last few weeks looking through my old biochemistry book.

Edited by unbeatableking, 10 September 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[protoject]

I'm pretty sure the effect of phosphatidylserine, ESPECIALLY an animal derived one, is wholly different than d-serine alone, and it has an established clinical effect. I find plant PS and D-serine to be a completely different ballpark, and on top of that PS is actually proven to lower cortisol levels if i remember correctly.. I dont think the idea is to get the breakdown products of PS into your brain. I think the actual molecule has an effect on your brain. Anyway, Would someone please look into getting Vayarol/ Vayarin/ Vayacog perscribed to them by their doctor; it's a combo of different levels of DHA/EPA with the PS molecule that is actually patented and studied by VayaPharm to help with conditions like ADHD, cognitive decline or CHD/vascular disorders. Of course, it's studied by the company itself so it seems like some kinda sales gimmick. But the substance is "controlled" in that you can only get it from your doctor, supposedly it actually has an effect. I tried to buy some but they were only selling to doctors. Someone please give this a shot, I really thought it was a good idea considering the results with bovine PS. Then again, it may have been other components in that bovine product that were causing the benefits, who knows.

[unbeatableking]

protoject, how is D-serine treating you? We need more input over at the d-serine thread.

Read your initial post, but I found it inconclusive to be honest.

Thank you for your response, I hope you can take the time to share your experience.

[Plasticperson]

I started taking the ps about 2.5-4 hours before bed. This helps me take advantage of the drowsiness that ps causes me.

I now take krill oil in replace of the morning and midday dose of ps. Inherently, it contains phospholipids that are conjugated with Dha (ie. phosphatidylcholine/inositol) and lower amounts of phospotidylserine.

[Plasticperson]

Also I compliment the krill/ps with uridine and pregnelone and it seems to create some sort of synergyistic effect. My concussion has healed exponentially ever since I started this regimen 6 days ago. It's nothing short of amazing. I had post concussion syndrome for about 2 months and now this regimen miraculously ameliorated most of my symptoms.

Edited by Plasticperson, 11 September 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[Renegade]

I started taking the ps about 2.5-4 hours before bed. This helps me take advantage of the drowsiness that ps causes me.

I now take krill oil in replace of the morning and midday dose of ps. Inherently, it contains phospholipids that are conjugated with Dha (ie. phosphatidylcholine/inositol) and lower amounts of phospotidylserine.

Do you notice the drowsiness carried into your day at all with consistent use at night time?

I have been taking approx. 200mg PS at night for the past few months. I have reason to believe that I have low cortisol, so today I decided to take 200mg in the middle of the day to gauge effects and see whether it could be a good supplement to take during the day to increase nootropic effects. It made me feel drowsy. Now I'm not sure whether I should even take the 200mg before bed as it may cause some kind of general drowsiness or make my cortisol too low. Any ideas?

[Major Legend]

You said that it's inefficient. That is pretty close to worthless in my book. I want efficient stuff.

If you want to spend hundreds every year on a supplement with a dubious track-record then go ahead.

Yes. I admit that. But here's one thing I know: I know more than you do. I know better than to pull the process leading to the synthesis of membrane bound phosphatidylserine in order to refute the assumption that the d-serine pathway I posited is wrong.

I have not had the opportunity to look into the nomenclature separating PS and D-serine at that time, so I spent the last few weeks looking through my old biochemistry book.

thanks your posts have been helpful.

[Jalal Abouelouafa]

Sorry for my not perfect english I had disorganized schizophrenia who begins with depersonalization, I cured my schizophrenia in 2009 by orthomolecular medicine by treating pyroluria and histapenia (2 condtions not recognized by conventional medicine), psychiatrists who I seed since 2009 think its impossible I was schizophrenic one day but those who I seed between 1997 and 2009 think I was and a psychological test (MMPI ) proved it in 2005, but my depersonalization doesn't vanished completely I was borderline depersonalized, the last days I have some worsening of depersonalization and I want to try d-serine, I stopped seaching websites who sell it in 2004 because it was not comercialized, but I read on your forum that now we can buy it, can someone show me a website where to buy it ?
I have some information who might help concerning nmda receptor :
Zinc is a second messenger for this receptor. (it helped a lot my depersonalization).
Vitamin b6 is a cofactor for serine racemmase who convert l-serine to d-serine, it also helped my depersonalization but depending on doses, very high doses increase depersonalization, to take B6 we need to begin with low dose like 25 or 50 mg and increase slowly, optimal level is the dose who permit to remember clearly one dream when waking up (it may varies betwenn 10 mg and 2000 mg or more) when we take more than optimal dose we have very vivid dreams with nightmares but if the dose is much higher it will decrease dream vividness like if we take a lower than optimal dose,truly high doses cause depression suicidal idea and worsen depersonalization (perhaps by transforming l-serine to d-serine periferally so there is less l-serine disponible for the brain to make d-serine, I know that d-serien pass the brain blood barrier but d-serine produced in the brain would be stronger).
if we have low level of b6 we have side effects if we take zinc without it, and too much b6 compared to zinc also cause problems, optimal doses of the combination of both are wonderfull , not juste for depersonalization.
potassium sorbate is an inhibitor of "D amino acid oxidase" who catabolize d-serine, so it will increase d-serine (I don't tried it because I know this since just few days).

[Plasticperson]

I too have self diagnosed with pyroluria. White spots engulf all parts of my fingernails. These white spots are definitely copper deposits. one year ago i embarked on a zinc supplementation regimen. It changed every aspect of my personality; i HATED the personality change it caused During the first month of supplementation i felt great, however, this was due to all the exccess copper, that was trapped, in tissues, within my body, being released from zincs antagonist affect. After that month was up there was nothing left to stimulate me and i was left. confused and afraid, in a copper free unstimulated mind set. For most people this is usually good. However, I am very undermethylated, which causes low levels of neurotransmitters, and needed the extra stimulation / norepinephrine boost from the copper. It was quite the dilemma but this goes to show that excess copper can actually be beneficial for some people and cause schizophrenia in others!!!!

[dear mrclock]

Haha, just found that weeks ago in the d-serine thread unbeatable didn't even know the difference beween PS and D-Serine. And suddenly he is super knowledgeable. Seems like a joke to me.

he got served

[Ames]

You're better off using D-Serine. This is the metabolic end-product of the serine pathway.

Phosphatidylserine ---> L-Serine ---> D-Serine <--- [This is what you want]

Supplementing with PS is inefficient because the total serine content of most PS supplements pales in comparison to their hydrocarbon linkages.

Plus the presence [or lack thereof] of the serine racemase enzyme serves as a rate-limiting reactant.

D-Serine is also cheaper. And yes, there are 'issues' with the quality of soy-extract PS supplements.

References please.

Stating that "this is what you want" when recommending an NMDA agonist for recovery from cerebral insult should raise suspicion for anyone reading, absent strong studies to back it up. NMDA agonists aren't generally thought of as a good idea when neuronal rescue and recovery is the goal. This is a situation in which a degree of excitotoxicity likely already exists, and while D-Serine facilitates plasticity in uninjured neurons with sufficient energetics at normal endogenous concentrations, it is very likely to further facilitate cell death in the injured brain.