592 replies to this topic

[greekpsychonaut]

Have no fear. I am simply waiting for a bunch of cold/crappy feelings to blow over and let the massive amount of chemicals I've been taking wash out of my system.

[Raza]

Has anyone tried Coluracetam with Noopept? I'm interested in trying but would like to hear others reports.

I have. (I decided to go back on 10mg noopept once or twice a week, right after my girlfriend leaves for the school week, in hope of benefiting from the effect on NGF and BDNF without suffering noticeably from decreased sex drive when it matters.)

I didn't notice any interaction. It's just the effects of both, simultaneously.

[golden1]

Okay so update:
With coluracetam alone I wasn't able to really focus on the cambridge tests so I found it really hard to try my best and hence didn't notice improvements. I will try with piracetam + coluracetam as I found out they highly synergize for me, removing the restless feeling I'd get on and off from coluracetam and replacing it with a semi-euphoric extremely relaxed focus(it feels like a low dose of amphetamine.. pretty unexpected). It seems almost like piracetam activates coluracetam for me in some way..(or at least changes it drastically in a positive way, not that it was bad before, just much better with piracetam). I also noticed head tension/ache before adding piracetam and now it is gone. The extremely relaxed focus feels like nefiracetam, but with a motivational drive to it rather than a flat/neutral feeling.


The vision effect is still growing to the point it's on par with how psychedelics enhance vision(obviously without the distortions hahah). I have had no negative thoughts at all, which is somewhat odd, I'm not a depressed person, but when you are tapering off benzos... you tend to get negative thoughts now and then and slightly depressed at random, but it seems to have stopped both of those from happening.

Mixing it with aniracetam I couldn't really tell what happened in terms of difference, I no longer felt the headspace I normally do with aniracetam, but it wasn't negative I just didn't really feel the aniracetam.

That is all I can think of atm, I'm really liking the pir+colu combo though which is odd since science guy had the opposite effect in combo.

[Introspecta]

Thanks for the Update Golden. Really interesting results. Did you just recently notice the tension releasing from taking piracetam or was it after reading my thread? I'm just wondering if there is any placebo. Sometimes you read something and expect certain results then they happen. Just curious how long you've been doing the combo for.

Science Guy seemed early in his trials when he tried Piracetam with Coluracetam so maybe the effects are different after you've been taking it for awhile.

[golden1]

I tried it after reading your post yeah, however the effect is pretty obvious and I wasn't really expecting any specific results(I basically went into it with the knowledge that someone else took piracetam and it was ok to mix for them, so I figured it would be safe to try). I also get noticeable non-placebo effects from piracetam alone which feel a decent amount like this but less in your face obvious, for example the semi-euphoria feels exactly like how piracetam enhances my mood but taken to the next level. Same with the relaxing feeling, so maybe it is more that coluracetam is potentiating piracetam's effects..

I'm really glad I found this combo early.. I took more piracetam(so 4grams total) and more coluracetam(so ~15mg since last post) and the effect is very obvious now, especially the relaxation. It's kind of like aniracetam now in that it has a strong almost drug-like feel in my head, which really makes me doubt its placebo. I'll let you know if it does the same thing tomorrow and so on though.

[abelard lindsay]

After having two days with likely ACH overload headaches and generally feeling anxious after taking 10mg coluracetam for two days I was getting a little worried. However, I had a great day today taking 1.4g piracetam and skipping CILTEP. I think this makes Piracetam work really well. I feel very intelligent and my memory was great today.

I really would say that coluracetam is in a different class of nootropics from the racetams in that it modifies choline metabolism in a semi-permanent way. I'd theorize that in doing so it really provides the choline for piracetam to work in the brain.

Nevertheless, in my humble opinion, it would be unwise for me to take it again in the near future as I think I've reached a point where taking more will probably put me above the ACH headache threshold. It's the same reason I don't take galantamine on a regular basis as ACHE inhibitors tend to do the same thing to me after a while.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 08 November 2012 - 05:51 AM.

[Baten]

I really would say that coluracetam is in a different class of nootropics from the racetams in that it modifies choline metabolism in a semi-permanent way.

I agree. If anything, it seems to regulate my ACH system, at low doses!

[Raza]

Lasting improved choline utilization would be good. Mine's pretty low on baseline... I did best on Huperzine A, but there was too many drawbacks to that to keep taking it.

Personally I've been completely fine on 10mg coluracetam and 650-1300mgs of choline citrate daily. I don't remember having any of my usual short term memory brain farts while on this combo though, which is nice.

One drawback I've found with coluracetam is that with repeat doses (never more than 10mg a day, but on consecutive days) I tend to get periods of mild drowsiness and eye-tiredness with lots of blinking, as if my brain is trying to enter REM sleep while I'm awake. I've seen this effect with other substances that enhance REM sleep, including piracetam, sarcosine and any serotonin precursors, when I'm not at fully alert when I take them by day...but with coluracetam (to my experience) basically lasting 24+ hours, that's difficult to resolve by timing. I wonder if 5mg doses would still have meaningful positive effect.

[Baten]

Personally I've been completely fine on 10mg coluracetam and 650-1300mgs of choline citrate daily.

I really wonder if the extra choline isn't overkill. Some people above mentioned in their coluracetam+piracetam combo, that the coluracetam replaced the choline.
For me coluracetam already does wonders concerning acetylcholine (I used to take huperzine a lot, too), I'm definitely not going to take extra.

Today I was working a couple of hours on studying the piano (I'm a beginner) and I noticed I managed to learn much quicker / more efficiently.
Maybe the learning curve is getting less steep due to practice, but I'm pretty sure the coluracetam is playing its part, too.

[Psionic]

Personally I've been completely fine on 10mg coluracetam and 650-1300mgs of choline citrate daily.

I really wonder if the extra choline isn't overkill. Some people above mentioned in their coluracetam+piracetam combo, that the coluracetam replaced the choline.
For me coluracetam already does wonders concerning acetylcholine (I used to take huperzine a lot, too), I'm definitely not going to take extra.

Today I was working a couple of hours on studying the piano (I'm a beginner) and I noticed I managed to learn much quicker / more efficiently.
Maybe the learning curve is getting less steep due to practice, but I'm pretty sure the coluracetam is playing its part, too.

Recently I have started to play very intensively while taking coluracetam, most time 2x a day at least 30 minutes in the morning (scales) and songs after work.. I must say that playing scales on its own with metronome gives me mental boost, its like a caffeine rush with improved thinking abilities.
I have also noticed to be more into my self, more present in that sense of word.. but I should measure Colu effect more precisely, its still a lot anecdotal here..
As I am taking it with noopept, I sometime notice myself staring on landscape fascinated how beautiful it is (probably vision effects, which I think have antidepression qualities). Going to add piracetam and see how it goes with combination.

[Raza]

Personally I've been completely fine on 10mg coluracetam and 650-1300mgs of choline citrate daily.

I really wonder if the extra choline isn't overkill. Some people above mentioned in their coluracetam+piracetam combo, that the coluracetam replaced the choline.
For me coluracetam already does wonders concerning acetylcholine (I used to take huperzine a lot, too), I'm definitely not going to take extra.

I'm working from the assumption that until excess acetylcholine manifests itself as tension, headache or low mood, its benefits on memory outweight whatever non-noticable downsides might be left.

How would you define overkill, in the absence of negative effects? Risk of receptor downregulation maybe, but that's always present when increasing ligand availability.

[Baten]

I'm working from the assumption that until excess acetylcholine manifests itself as tension, headache or low mood, its benefits on memory outweight whatever non-noticable downsides might be left.
How would you define overkill, in the absence of negative effects? Risk of receptor downregulation maybe, but that's always present when increasing ligand availability.

Well put. I would define overkill as simply not necessary, but you might very well be right that there's still a benefit.
Personally, I'm all for avoiding the risk for tension/headache/mood problems in the first place, and taking extra choline only when the need arises exclusively.

Edited by Baten, 08 November 2012 - 07:18 PM.

[golden1]

Theory on piracetam + coluracetam synergy(which still seems to work today, most def not placebo):
Possibly since the dose of coluracetam is so small and piracetam much larger, the piracetam works at some of the same places as coluracetam and with such a larger ratio of it it displaces/blocks coluracetam from working at those spots forcing coluracetam to concentrate on it's own unique mechanisms/binding. Don't know how feasible that is. It could be anything, but that idea seemed cool.

[abelard lindsay]

Theory on piracetam + coluracetam synergy(which still seems to work today, most def not placebo):
Possibly since the dose of coluracetam is so small and piracetam much larger, the piracetam works at some of the same places as coluracetam and with such a larger ratio of it it displaces/blocks coluracetam from working at those spots forcing coluracetam to concentrate on it's own unique mechanisms/binding. Don't know how feasible that is. It could be anything, but that idea seemed cool.

Nah.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18461273

. MKC-231 (Coluracetam) enhances high-affinity choline uptake (HACU) known as the rate-limiting step of acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18446264

These results indicate MKC-231 improves AF64A-induced cholinergic hypofunction by enhancing HACU, subsequently facilitating ACh synthesis and release in vitro and in vivo.

It enhances the acetylcholine system so Piracetam can work with all that choline in ready to use form. I wonder what this does to the piracetam inverted dose/response U curve?! I took 2.1 g of piracetam today and scored my highest ever on Paired Associates (8!). This is a good test to see if somethings working because I almost always score a 5 or a 6 and rarely a 7 so 8 is something.

Also, significant cognitive enhancement has been observed after the substance leaves the body which is why I put coluracetam in a whole other category from the rest of the 'racetams.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18461272

Significant cognitive improvement was observed for 24 h, however, concentration measurement studies indicated MKC-231 was not detected in the brain by this time. We also studied the effects of 8-days repeated administration of MKC-231 on HACU 1, 24, 48, and 72 h after the last dose and observed an increase of HACU similar in time course with cognitive improvement. From these results, we discussed the possibility that MKC-231 could induce long-lasting procognitive effects by changing the choline transporter regulation system.

IMHO, one should have a good understanding as to how one responds to increased ACh levels before taking it since the effects linger.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 09 November 2012 - 05:07 AM.

[golden1]

well yeah that's another possibility. I was thinking more outside the box, ie. no evidence to back up my theory hahah.

I'm aware of the choline uptake studies, but without a doubt it has other mechanisms of action I'd bet(being similar in structure to piracetam/pramiracetam/nefiracetam)

[nootropic_addict]

interesring, can it help with benzo brain damage?
and where do you buy coluracetam, i mean not chinese crap, something made in the states or europe?

[Introspecta]

You can't buy it. unless you wanna shell out 15k to have it made. Read the thread from the beginning

[Introspecta]

I havn't been getting the same euphoric effects that I received the first time I was over cholinated by Coluracetam. But I've been doing low dose Coluracetam 5-10mgs mixed with Piracetam with very good results though I must say. I had one of the best days focus wise at work today. In the morning I dosed 7 mgs Coluracetam then took about 4-5 grams of Piracetam 4 times throughout the day. Then I got home and dosed 10mgs Coluracetam. The visual enhancement is pretty intense at times like Golden has mentioned similiar to Psychedelics but there are no tracers or anything moving just everything looks really bright and sometimes certain scenes look more like a high def painting or an enhanced picture like some of the Photo programs they have that enhance the quality of pictures making the scenes look somewhat fake to a certain degree due to the enhancement.

I have to agree Coluracetam is def an interesting drug and it is the first one i've taken that has kept building like this with seeming permanent effects. We will see after I stop taking it. I am thinking that the best dosing schedule for safety may be 5 mgs 3-4 times per day.

I'm really happy about the improvements in Social Situations because I've struggled for a very long time with this issue and this seems to help in confidence and ability to say what I want without studdering. At other times though I feel somewhat anxious which is strange. Its like the drug doesn't feel like it has anti anxiety effects until after I realize how confident I was. I really need to get off the caffiene or at least taper down because it interferes with the effects. Drinking too much caffiene spikes blood sugar levels causing them to crash which can cause a headache. That headache could be blamed on the Coluracetam when in fact it isn't. It is best to not have too many outside distractions that could contribute to shitty side effects. It is prettty obvious though when dosing too high on the Colu that a headache presents itself within 15 mins.

I wonder what would happen if one were to take an Anti-Cholinergic like Benadryl. Would it take away the headache proving the problem is def choline overload. Would it cause an interaction and an immediate death,lol?

[golden1]

Tried cambridge tests on pir+colu+green tea(baseline tests didn't include any of these). Scored insignificantly higher on a few, felt like if I kept trying I could get very good at them, but due to the focus/lazy factor of being on benzos/tapering off them I couldn't force myself to try to reach that potential.

Adding greentea overall makes it that much nicer, I actually feel calmer after the tea with much enhanced focus and a prominent positive vibe. I've been taking 10-20mg coluracetam 2x a day BTW. Started taking piracetam @ 1-3grams dosed with the coluracetam. Took 500mg cdp-choline after the tests and felt more comfortable than normal(its usual effect on me), no negatives from dosing it.

I was able to make some music again which was awesome, since my skill at that started going downhill after being on benzos. Aniracetam had in the past given me greater musical skill and I'm pretty sure coluracetam does for me as well. It's more than just being focused, it's about being able to feel the beat and hear all the different layers of the sound.
I'll link the song I made, mostly because I think its a good example of how it increases my ability to know what sounds best/smoothest(friend started a beat, but I finished/rehashed most of it completely): http://soundcloud.co...ractaliteration

And yeah joelski28 I agree with your descriptions of the visual effect, heres some HDR pics I took a while ago that remind me of it:



Overall I really really like coluracetam and it feels like its building up my brain in a positive way, hard to describe really, but similar to lions mane if anyone hass noticed the effects from that they are pretty similar

[golden1]

Tried 1000mg nefiracetam + 2000mg piracetam + 20mg coluracetam. The high definition vision is apparently enhanced GREATLY by nefiracetam. So is the calmness, but I expected that(intense calmness has always been the main effect of nefiracetam for me). It's definitely like HDR photography, in that the dynamic range of dark and light colors is increased. It's finally surpassed the max visual enhancement I got from aniracetam by a rather large amount. Simply looking in the mirror I look as if I am looking at myself through the lens of a professional photographer..with perfect lighting and shadows haha. If you can't tell, I'm more the creative type, so things like enhanced perception and creativity stand out more for me.

I'm going to attempt coluracetam with a psychedelic...I'll let you know how that goes.

[summertimex]

i had visual quality problems as well.

ani is the most colorful racetam with prami the neon colored effects at grocery stores stayed for about a month.

what helped enhance this more realistically was

iboga
DHA/EPA
methyl-b12
lions mane

another thing to try for visual enchancement is nicergoline which i recently ordered
http://www.biogenesi...?products_id=83 + hydergine

the trick would be to actually get the fatty acids in there and the neuroinflammation out of there to build better visual cortex.

also lutein could be added, but i took enough vitamins.

Edited by gen6k, 10 November 2012 - 07:26 AM.

[CIMN]

I think im more interested in just adding this to eyedrops, might work better for the visual effects.

[Introspecta]

What are you going to add to eyedrops? I hope you don't plan on adding chemicals to eyedrops you'll probably burn the shit out of your eyes.

[stablemind]

Tried cambridge tests on pir+colu+green tea(baseline tests didn't include any of these). Scored insignificantly higher on a few, felt like if I kept trying I could get very good at them, but due to the focus/lazy factor of being on benzos/tapering off them I couldn't force myself to try to reach that potential.

Adding greentea overall makes it that much nicer, I actually feel calmer after the tea with much enhanced focus and a prominent positive vibe. I've been taking 10-20mg coluracetam 2x a day BTW. Started taking piracetam @ 1-3grams dosed with the coluracetam. Took 500mg cdp-choline after the tests and felt more comfortable than normal(its usual effect on me), no negatives from dosing it.

I was able to make some music again which was awesome, since my skill at that started going downhill after being on benzos. Aniracetam had in the past given me greater musical skill and I'm pretty sure coluracetam does for me as well. It's more than just being focused, it's about being able to feel the beat and hear all the different layers of the sound.
I'll link the song I made, mostly because I think its a good example of how it increases my ability to know what sounds best/smoothest(friend started a beat, but I finished/rehashed most of it completely): http://soundcloud.co...ractaliteration

And yeah joelski28 I agree with your descriptions of the visual effect, heres some HDR pics I took a while ago that remind me of it:



Overall I really really like coluracetam and it feels like its building up my brain in a positive way, hard to describe really, but similar to lions mane if anyone hass noticed the effects from that they are pretty similar

What camera did you use? These pictures are amazing.

[CIMN]

What are you going to add to eyedrops? I hope you don't plan on adding chemicals to eyedrops you'll probably burn the shit out of your eyes.

just regular eye relief eyedrops.. with a small amount of coluracetam.. unless thats not reccomended? just an idea.

Edited by CIMN, 10 November 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[Introspecta]

Probably not a good idea. Just take it sublingual.





Anyone here from Scienceguy? Hopefully he isn't in the hosptial due to Coluracetam Poisoning. Like in that movie with NZT where everyone started getting sick and dying. Hopefully this doesn't happen with Coluracetam,lol.

We need to get this stuff available at Nootropic shops. Being careful with dosing I think alot of people could benefit from this. It seems to have strong Anti-depressant qualities and I believe it is actually prescribed for that in some countries.

Edited by joelski28, 10 November 2012 - 07:04 PM.

[Baten]

also lutein could be added, but i took enough vitamins.

Personally I found that the carotenoids that I tried (lutein esters, astaxanthin, zeaxanthin) had very little, if any, effect on vision. I bet they're good for general macular health, though.

[OpaqueMind]

Lol @ putting research chemicals in your eyeballs

[CIMN]

Probably not a good idea. Just take it sublingual.

yeah your right.. we dont really know if its "dangerous" to the eyes. but i was intrigued about the "retinopathy and optic nerve" regenerating property i heard coluracetam has.

[unregistered_user]

I can't downvote the idea of putting a research chemical in your eyeball enough. That is reckless.