592 replies to this topic

[spookytooth]

You're welcome

Depending on the price once coluracetam is sold by a few vendors i might be very interested in a group buy! 10-20 people
5-10g each. Just putting it out there.

[BobMarin]

You're welcome

Depending on the price once coluracetam is sold by a few vendors i might be very interested in a group buy! 10-20 people
5-10g each. Just putting it out there.

I would also be definitely interested in the group buy...

We should definitely try to make something happen.Does anyone perhaps know the eventual price of a, lets say, 20 people group buy?

[spookytooth]

If we use Season from Isochroma's Racetam Pricelist http://users4.jabry....etam Prices.htm we'd pay 1200$ including shipping to one recipient for 100g which would work out to 120$ plus shipping for 10g and 60$ plus shipping for 5g. Every member of the group buy should decide for themselves if they want 5g or 10g.
We should open another thread for this though.

You're welcome

Depending on the price once coluracetam is sold by a few vendors i might be very interested in a group buy! 10-20 people
5-10g each. Just putting it out there.

I would also be definitely interested in the group buy...

We should definitely try to make something happen.Does anyone perhaps know the eventual price of a, lets say, 20 people group buy?

[greekpsychonaut]

I'm so glad the group buy is gathering a head of steam! Count me in.

[spookytooth]

I'm so glad the group buy is gathering a head of steam! Count me in.

Alright, noted!

[formergenius]

I'd just like to post a quick apology regarding my previous post. It wasn't in compliance with forum rules, so please disregard anything in that post, as I cannot edit or delete it.
My bad, didn't really read the forum rules with much scrutiny before.. Sorry for any disruption it may have caused.

Anyway, spookytooth count me in as well if you like (and only if that is in compliance with forum rules).

golden1: thankyou very much for your reply!

[Steve Zissou]

Very interested, in also.

[Default8]

Group buy? Count me in for that

[phil8462643]

please count me in too!

wheres the new thread?

[Sunifiramses II]

Count me in for 5g.

[Default8]

This $1200 price for 100g is from china though isn't it? How risky is that really???

[phil8462643]

I created a page for the colouracetam group buy so we do not cloud the feedback page with posts that are not really on topic and also because there is not currently an active colouracetam group buy page that I can find. Here it is.
http://www.longecity...uy/#entry595816

[formergenius]

Thanks Phil.

So today I bought a book: "The Principles of Pharmacology". There's quite an extensive section on cholinergic mechanisms and drugs.
Leaving behind the ironic mission impossible of understanding the biology of cognition whilst dealing with cognitive deficits, basically it stated that Cholinergic mechanisms are very poorly understood to this date. So that raised a few questions.

Wouldn't Coluracetam have autonomic and neuromuscular effects as well?

Some stuff from the book (not the original words):

"The rate-limiting step of ACh synthesis isn't mediated by choline acetyltransferase, but by the availability of the choline substrate, which depends on neuronal uptake of choline. The most important cholinergic transport system is of high-affinity [note: HACU I would presume then], which is sodium-dependent and is specifically present in cholinergic nerve terminals. Cholinergic supply has its upper limit set by the high-affinity transporter, because it is easily saturated (at concentrations above 10 micromollar)."

Whatever that means, I thought it to be relevant to share this information in this topic.

It also stated that synaptic ACh release is mediated by fusion of the vesicle with the plasma membrane [note: isn't that how most neurotransmitter release occurs?]. This is dependant on axon terminal depolarization and the opening of voltage-dependent calcium channels."

Now I know I'm no scholar, but IIRC, high intracellular Ca²⁺ levels cause excitotoxicity/mitochondrial damage? If Coluracetam enhances High Affinity Choline Uptake, which would then essentially speed up the whole process of synthesizing and recycling ACh, could that somehow cause for higher intracellular Ca²⁺ levels, leading to excitotoxicity? I emphasize; this is not a statement, just a question. My knowledge of this is all very limited.

Also I wonder how Coluracetam could be considered anxiolytic, for ACh in the CNS is mainly excitatory, if I'm not mistaken. Perhaps by increased excitation of inhibitory neurons/mechanisms or whatever the jargon is? ACh seems to be able to enhance the effects of other catecholamines, so perhaps some Coluracetam indirectly enhances dopaminergic transmission, causing NE to be inhibited (EDIT: don't quote me on that, I could be shamefully incorrect there), thus exerting its anxiolytic effects? Or maybe just because of higher excitation in the PFC? This is all layman's conjecture really; it could be pseudoscientific nonsense for all I know.

Also, how would Coluracetam effect epileptic/convulsant activity? Is Coluracetam CNS specific?

I just thought it might be nice to know this, because a HACU enhancer isn't really specific, moreover cholinergic mechanisms are intrinsically complicated. If anyone could shed some light on this, it would be nice

It just seems as if most people just went "Ohh, a new racetam! Sure, why not?", and there wasn't much call for explanation of Colu mechanism, or it was overlooked in excitement. Cheers, got to go.

Edited by formergenius, 30 June 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[formergenius]

Ohh, for your reference: http://www.acnp.org/...ml<br /><br />It covers the ambiguity of cholinergic mechanisms in affect and cognition. Some evidence suggests that cholinomimetics might induce depression. Yes, Coluracetam needn't be classified as a cholinomimetic, yet perhaps for those more able to comprehend (who are interested) it could serve as a useful resource/cross-reference in comprising theories of how Coluracetam might affect mood, perception and cognition.

[formergenius]

Nevermind on the excitotoxicity question..: But still, would be nice to know a bit more about Coluracetam :D

Exposure of cultures to MKC-231 for 12 – 24 hr ameliorated glutamate cytotoxicity. MKC-231 reduced cytotoxicity induced by ionomycin, a calcium ionophore, but did not affect the cytotoxicity induced by S-nitrosocysteine, a nitric oxide (NO) donor. These findings suggest that MKC-231 protects against glutamate neurotoxicity by suppressing the NO formation triggered by Ca²⁺-influx.

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9541286

[formergenius]

The search function has been altered a bit, so I can't seem to search within this thread.

I've been wondering recently: What would the implications be of Coluracetam regarding smoking cessation?
Has anyone experienced any notable effects with nicotine? In the sense of less craving, lesser ability to "enjoy" a cigarette, or adverse effects when smoking?
Just came to mind with the cholinergic interplay and all. Would be a nice side-effect if it aids in smoking cessation.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

The search function has been altered a bit, so I can't seem to search within this thread.

I've been wondering recently: What would the implications be of Coluracetam regarding smoking cessation?
Has anyone experienced any notable effects with nicotine? In the sense of less craving, lesser ability to "enjoy" a cigarette, or adverse effects when smoking?
Just came to mind with the cholinergic interplay and all. Would be a nice side-effect if it aids in smoking cessation.

While on the topic of smoking, it is interesting to note that MAO-Is play a large role in potentiating nicotine addiction: http://www.nature.co...l/1300987a.html

I (luckily) never found cigarettes addicting, and recently got some nicotine as a general purpose stimulant. Nicotine really gets a bum rap from cigarettes, and is actually quite a nice stimulant by itself that is apparently non-addictive for a lot more people than just myself in the absence of an MAO-I. I'd probably take it with an alpha-blocker for long term use though, given the detrimental cardiac effects when administered alone (as with many "classic" stimulants). I'm thinking a low dose of a drug along the lines of Phenoxybenzamine as an adjuvant to nicotine (and certainly with no MAO-Is) may make it a true nootropic by the safety definition.

The safety of e-cigarettes is still a topic of debate, but appears quite marginal: http://ã°â¡hestjourna1.chestpubs.org/data/Journals/CHEST/24233/112443.pdf

If you're going to use nicotine, I'd stick to patches or (my preferred) ingestion.

Edit: Anyone got an ETA on Coluracetam being available through a supplier like NSN yet?

Edited by 3AlarmLampscooter, 10 July 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[formergenius]

Err.. that doesn't really answer my question, nor is it exactly related to this thread.
Interesting info nonetheless, but I believe most people know this already..
I was inquiring about smoking cessation though, specifically how Coluracetam would influence this
I don't use nicotine for nootropic properties, it's an addiction I've had since childhood. I tried NRT, didn't help the least bit.
A proper E-cig definitely helps though, but they're hard to get where I am now.
Just thought it would be nice if Coluracetam could.. heat the iron so I can strike the hammer.

Idk about the ETA..
I'll be (and have been) checking NSN rather obsessively everyday, so I'll post an update in the Group Buy thread once I see it becomes available (and only after I've secured my own share: I bet it'll be sold out in a matter of days! haha). If July passes without it being available, I'll inquire with NSN about how long it's gonna take, but I'm sure others will do so as well. Other than that, I think Nootropicsdepot mentioned Coluracetam, but nothing concrete and they're new in town. Liftmode also had plans for Colu, but it's nowhere to be seen either. So I guess if it's gonna be a couple more months, perhaps the Group Buy should be reconsidered (as it seems to have lost interest).

[spookytooth]

I don't think people have lost interest in the group buy. I have been busy for the last few weeks and will be travelling for the next few days. Once I am back in my home country I will continue pursuing the group buy.

[Artemis Beoulve]

I have a vast amount of interest in this particular Nootropic and a staggering amount of respect for you, ScienceGuy, for the sheer depth of your review and the dedication you appear to have for the field/community. C'est Excellent!

[Fabio Gomes]

Hi! So ScienceGuy what about another update? After all this talk about group buys and etc I think there will be coluracetam available from some vendors soon...

[protoject]

Hi everyone, I received a sample of coluracetam last year in 2012 whenever they were sent out, October I think it was. I didn't bother trying it for the longest time because 1) i was taking other meds/ supplements and didn't want to confound, and 2) my confidence that this would make any difference to my life was very low. I thought coluracetam was "just another racetam" (my opinion of racetams isn't the greatest, regarding their personal effects on myself).

However I've been experimenting with different doses over the past week or so.

I started at 80 mg since that's what the Braincells Inc. study used. I only used that dosage once a day though on 3 different days. Once was sublingual, and twice was oral. I have to say, the 80 mg feels like too much.

I went down to anywhere between 5-15 mg, once a day, and have tried this for about 3 or 4 days. I tried it a couple times sublingually and a couple of times orally.
My purpose for trying this has more to do with anxiety and depression, then with receiving "nootropic" benefits, though of course I am interested in nootropic benefits as well. I find that this dosage is working out for me and that I'm pleased with the results. It's having a noticable effect on boosting my mood and calming my anxiety down as well.

I wouldn't say that coluracetam is strong enough to stop panic attacks but it does give a sense of calm and also makes me feel more motivated and "okay". I am hoping it will be able to help lower general anxiety enough to eventually help the panic attacks, though I think my panic attacks may be from an unknown physical origin.

It's kind of stimulant-like except a lot smoother and cleaner. It seems to have its greatest effect from its time of onset up until 3-5 hours later. I haven't yet tried dosing BID (2x a day) nor TID (3x a day). If I did dose that many times orally I'd want to make sure I'm using 5 mg each time but it's hard to measure that much since we don't have the most accurate of scales.

Nootropic effect is that my mind seems clearer and slightly more versatile. I haven't done any objective test to determine this.

Thanks a lot science guy for exposing us to this new molecule as I am very treatment resistant and have been losing hope, but this actually works to some degree.

Comparison to other racetams:
I find that most other racetams either cause mind fog, insomnia or worsened mood on some level or another. I have tried piracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, and nefiracetam. I don't find that coluracetam, so far, has caused any of those issues at this low 10 mg dosage, and I find it to be the racetam that seems to be easiest on my system in that regard. I'm not sure that noopept is a "racetam" per say but I also feel that coluracetam is superior to noopept in its side effect profile. However I would say that I found some of noopept's nootropic and mood effects to be stronger than coluracetam (it was more stimulating and caused more on-the-fly behavior-less inhibited, more confident); it's just that for me its risks outweighed its benefits. (noopept worsened my insomnia, also it caused some agitation as well as confusion or memory loss at times).


Side effects:
sublingually, I'm not sure I noticed any side effect...
orally, as ScienceGuy was mentioning, causes a bit of nausea and stomach upset. Other than that, a slight headache/neck ache, that's about it.

If my opinion changes I will edit this post directly and add as an appendage. If not then consider this my final word.

[ranza]

I find that most other racetams either cause mind fog, insomnia or worsened mood on some level or another. I have tried piracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, and nefiracetam. I don't find that coluracetam, so far, has caused any of those issues at this low 10 mg dosage, and I find it to be the racetam that seems to be easiest on my system in that regard. I'm not sure that noopept is a "racetam" per say but I also feel that coluracetam is superior to noopept in its side effect profile.

I can very much relate to that opinion, but there's also another explanation - This coluracetam was made by custom synthesis, how much other nootropics do we have custom synthesized? It very well may be that popular brands do not match the quality of production provided by custom labs.
This hypothesis gets even stronger in face of the mass doubts on quality of Cerebral Health products.

[protoject]

I find that most other racetams either cause mind fog, insomnia or worsened mood on some level or another. I have tried piracetam, pramiracetam, oxiracetam, and nefiracetam. I don't find that coluracetam, so far, has caused any of those issues at this low 10 mg dosage, and I find it to be the racetam that seems to be easiest on my system in that regard. I'm not sure that noopept is a "racetam" per say but I also feel that coluracetam is superior to noopept in its side effect profile.

I can very much relate to that opinion, but there's also another explanation - This coluracetam was made by custom synthesis, how much other nootropics do we have custom synthesized? It very well may be that popular brands do not match the quality of production provided by custom labs.
This hypothesis gets even stronger in face of the mass doubts on quality of Cerebral Health products.

I generally doubt it, but it's possible. Personally I had great quality oxiracetam + citicoline from smartpowders, also I've had piracetam and pramiracetam and aniracetam from International Anti-Aging systems, whose quality i trust. Had nefiracetam and alphaGPC from .. cant remember, i think it was CH , but I know for sure I got Noopept and Mag. Threonate from Cerebral Health and it was good quality/ nothing wrong with it.

Anyway, not sure it has anything to do with custom synth, but whenever you get some nasty powder that doesn't taste like it's supposed to and gives unexpected side effects or has unexpected properties, maybe there's some kind of problem...

I appreciated getting something custom synthed thogh and by someone who seems to care and know what they are talking about

Edited by protoject, 17 July 2013 - 04:54 PM.

[computeTHIS]

ScienceGuy could you please enlighten us regarding long term effects of Coluracetam? I assume you have persisted taking it since you had such an excellent initial experience.

I would also like to know about this...

OK, time for an UPDATE

Firstly, please kindly note that I am not your typical HEALTHY INDIVIDUAL... I am a recovering LYME DISEASE sufferer with CONCOMMITENT BABESIOSIS and BARTONELLOSIS, and for this reason I am not sure how useful my personal ANECDOTAL REPORTS will be

Salient points as follows:

1) I have been taking COLURACETAM every day consistently for 10 MONTHS

2) My current dosage, which I have maintained for the majority of this period is 10mg TID (taken SUBLINGUALLY), TOTAL 30mg DAILY.

3) NO TOLERANCE to COLURACETAM's effects has occurred... All POSITIVE EFFECTS are just as when I started taking COLURACETAM (for details see my initial post within this thread)

4) I have undergone BLOOD TESTS every 2 - 3 MONTHS and I am pleased to report that my blood tests for LIVER and RENAL FUNCTION as well as TESTOSTERONE, DHT, and ESTRADIOL are all still absolutely NORMAL and there have not been any significant changes whatsoever versus baseline blood test results.

I would also like to know about this, ESPECIALLY wether the vision improvements (from your AMPP issues) persist post cessation.

I haven't stopped taking COLURACETAM so unfortunately am not able to answer this; however, I CAN say that for me personally the improvement in my previously impaired vision has most certainly remained whilst I have been taking COLURACETAM

This is an open question that I would like to see answered by those taking Coluracetam. The claim is that Coluracetam "may induce long-lasting procognitive effects by changing the choline transporter regulation system." I would ask those taking it, what those long-lasting procognitive effects are after cessation, and if there is a comparison to long-lasting procognitive effects of any of the other racetams after cessation. Let us know for what duration you took Coluracetam before ceasing.

[adammann]

I've been following this thread for a while but hadn't chimed in as yet.
Thought I'd pass on this email communication that I got from New Star Nootropics this morning - I sent them an email only last night:

"We have not had Coluracetam arrive yet, but we heard from the lab yesterday that they have finally succeeded in synthesizing it. It has been a very tricky synthesis, requiring a remarkable level of purification of the intermediate compounds. We have NMR and LCMS for the crude sample, and it does look good. Therefore, barring any further complications when they scale up the synthesis, we should have the first batch in around 10-15 days."

[Q did it!]

I've been following this thread for a while but hadn't chimed in as yet.
Thought I'd pass on this email communication that I got from New Star Nootropics this morning - I sent them an email only last night:

"We have not had Coluracetam arrive yet, but we heard from the lab yesterday that they have finally succeeded in synthesizing it. It has been a very tricky synthesis, requiring a remarkable level of purification of the intermediate compounds. We have NMR and LCMS for the crude sample, and it does look good. Therefore, barring any further complications when they scale up the synthesis, we should have the first batch in around 10-15 days."

Thanks for this, props. I was going to email them this week (sample is almost fully depleted ). I will defiantly be buying a large quantity when available

[adammann]

And further to that, also got a response from Ceretropic about Coluracetam as well (again, contact made 3rd Sep):

"We are still working on getting more in. Our supplier is saying 7 days. We are crossing our fingers that is true."

[greekpsychonaut]

I've been following this thread for a while but hadn't chimed in as yet.
Thought I'd pass on this email communication that I got from New Star Nootropics this morning - I sent them an email only last night:

"We have not had Coluracetam arrive yet, but we heard from the lab yesterday that they have finally succeeded in synthesizing it. It has been a very tricky synthesis, requiring a remarkable level of purification of the intermediate compounds. We have NMR and LCMS for the crude sample, and it does look good. Therefore, barring any further complications when they scale up the synthesis, we should have the first batch in around 10-15 days."

This is great news! Thanks for this update, sir.

[formergenius]

Ceretropic has been awesome IME. Received their Colu yesterday. I'll try it out and report back, also I'll compare it with the other Colu I have been using (from stopacne.nl).