592 replies to this topic

[NG_F]

Ahhh Ok thanks for the clarification.

[Isochroma]

All self-study on Organic Chemistry. Lots of it. And other technical background is in electronics and computers since the early days.

Get your Testosterone level checked too. It's a source of much mental lethargy and physical fatigue too. Low Testosterone is a worsening plague afflicting a high percentage of First World men. Worse, neither racetams - including Coluracetam - nor racerams can function optimally without adequate Testosterone. Found by my own self-experiementation.

[p3x888]

@Isochroma-Reborn
What amounts do you recomment the sunnifiram and oxiracetam to be in? I would like to try this combo.

[NG_F]

All self-study on Organic Chemistry. Lots of it. And other technical background is in electronics and computers since the early days.

Get your Testosterone level checked too. It's a source of much mental lethargy and physical fatigue too. Low Testosterone is a worsening plague afflicting a high percentage of First World men. Worse, neither racetams - including Coluracetam - nor racerams can function optimally without adequate Testosterone. Found by my own self-experiementation.

Both my free and total testosterone are very good. My estrogen is where it should be(not too high and a not needed too low) Low estrogen effects cognition adversely,and disallows serotonin to activate certain receptors, thus resulting in anxiety and depression. Many girls who are on certain contraceptives that diminish estrogen levels yet increase progesterone have shown to be non-responders to SSRI's. High estrogen results in Anxiety mostly as well as blocking various D2 and D3 receptor cites.

My SHBG, prolactin and DHEA are where they should be.So is my TSH, T3,T4 reverse T3 and all glycemic and lipid panels. Endocrinology has been my self-study since I was 18.Now approaching my 40's I am on Testosterone replacement therapy,not on anabolic therapy lol..at 100mgs/week. I was on anabolics in a cyclical nature from 1997-2004. I was too lazy and HCG/HMG was too expensive and not insured, so I opted for TRT with very close attention to estrogen and prolactin control.

Thanks for your thoroughness Isochroma.

[Isochroma]

Sounds good.

As for Sunifiram dosing, 25mg seems the saturation dose so that's what I take.

It means a 10g purchase from New Star lasts for two months with a gram left over for repurchase latency.

[westwald]

Ben: You have quite a talent at ignoring my posts. Apparently you did not download the two COAs to find they match and apparently you have ignored the fact that I received and have posted above direct confirmation from the named Chinese manufacturer that indeed they have been selling 1kg of Coluracetam per month to New Star Nootropics.

I advise you to buy yourself a good nootropic stack to improve your brain function. Oxiracetam plus Sunifiram taken every three hours works miracles.

Uhm, how is his brain function impared for not accepting a CoA coming from the manufactuer of the product??? The papers aren't even signed by a technitian. These Chinese labs have so many reasons to falsify the purity - if it's too low, they'll have to re-synth or (if salvagable) clean the product up, both very time consuming processes. This is my first post here even though I read here a lot - but I have a lot of experience dealing with these labs and their sales teams and you should never use their provided analysis as reason to bypass third party testing.

THIRD PARTY testing (unleashing my inner SCIENCE GUY who likes RANDOM caps hehe), done in the US or an EU country would make me, and I'm pretty sure many others, a lot more confortable.

Edited by westwald, 04 November 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[NG_F]

Your definitely right about 3rd party testing done on North American soil. More people would feel comfortable knowing they got the real deal with no dangerous impurities!

I'm sure it's been brought up here before but we should all pitch in on a moderate amount of said nootropic and have it MS and/or GC I know such a lab in the U.S and they're very reasonable. I believe around 5-700 for a complete analysis.

[Isochroma]

That is never going to happen. Unaffordable.

Even if a quality analysis was cheap - say $100 - it would have to be performed on every small batch purchased since the supplier(s) can switch sources or otherwise have different batches each order.

COAs are only worth paying for if one is purchasing large quantities of a drug. Doing that is expensive and risky: group buys. Risky in many ways including Customs seizure and theft.

Face the facts. You and I and anyone else with less riches than ScienceGuy will be using or not using what is offered for sale - first-party COA or usually no COA.

All the discussion about COAs is intellectual masturbation.
It leads nowhere except circles and reeks of whiny tone.

[NG_F]

I disagree. I'm not the richest but I'll pay for the analysis myself on a 100g order. 2 gram sample is all that is required.

The facts ARE..that if it passes and I'm happy I'll speak to the company and emphasize I want the same supplier, if they want my business(regular and decent quantities)

[Rior]

Just a quick question in regards to testosterone levels. I'm 21 years old and recently had my levels tested and had them come out as:

446 Total (range = 250-1100)
63.4 Free test (range = 35-155)
32 SHBG (range=10-50)

Now, I've had problems with lethargy and a couple issues that could be test-related.

While all of my levels are within "normal", doing research online has indicated to me that average test levels for someone my age is somewhere around 660+!! That seems to be significantly higher than mine. Those of you who also have experience with testosterone testing, should this be of any concern to me? Though my workout routine has slowed tremendously, I have begun taking DHEA every day alongside Tongkat Ali in hopes that this might help in some fashion.

[Isochroma]

You are badly low on Testosterone:

Testosterone Week - What’s a “Normal” Testosterone Level and How to Measure Your T

Your T is lower than a healthy 84-year-old man - how could you feel well?

At your age in just a few more years your natural decline will put you into horror territory like it did me.

You're only just starting life and your fuel tanks are nearly empty.

No future.

Get the Clomid right away and dose @50mg/day for 1-2 weeks and have your T rechecked.

That will determine if you're primary or secondary.

[NG_F]

Just a quick question in regards to testosterone levels. I'm 21 years old and recently had my levels tested and had them come out as:

446 Total (range = 250-1100)
63.4 Free test (range = 35-155)
32 SHBG (range=10-50)

Now, I've had problems with lethargy and a couple issues that could be test-related.

While all of my levels are within "normal", doing research online has indicated to me that average test levels for someone my age is somewhere around 660+!! That seems to be significantly higher than mine. Those of you who also have experience with testosterone testing, should this be of any concern to me? Though my workout routine has slowed tremendously, I have begun taking DHEA every day alongside Tongkat Ali in hopes that this might help in some fashion.

Yes those testosterone levels are low! Yes they are in the range but those are just guideline parameters that the labs use.They are NOT OPTIMAL levels for mood,sexual performance and libido.Also low for cognition,motivation and muscle and joint regenesis.

Have you done ANY anabolic steroid cycles before and especially lately?? As these levels are indicative of withdrawals after cycle without proper post cycle therapy. I'm not assuming,just trying to be thorough.

You should be around 650-1000 for Total T, 100-140 for Free T and an SHBG level of 10-20 ( the lower the better) also I advise you to get your Estradiol checked,if this is too high no SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) including clomid will work to its full potential. You will need an aromatase Inhibitor. I doubt your estradiol will be high,unless your rebounding from anabolics with no PCT. Low testosterone levels, will be rate limiting to estrogen production, as testosterone is metabolized to estrogen via the aromatase pathway and dihydrotestosterone via the 5-alpha reductase pathway.

Ask for serum prolactin,LH and FSH levels as well. The Gonadotropic hormones(LH and FSH) will tell us how your testicular Leydig cells are performing and the anterior stock of the pituitary gland.

As isochroma mentioned, Clomid is a good way to start.It will stimulate LHRH (luetenizing hormone-releasing hormone) from your pituitary gland which signals the testes to stimulate LH witch will increase both total and free testosterone levels.

Get your thyroid levels checked as well, as low Testosterone can suppress your thyroid production, and further add to your symptomatology.

[Rior]

I've never once touched anabolic steroids, and certainly never plan on it. That said, if you're saying my levels are indicative of what would otherwise be steroid WITHDRAWALS, that's pretty damned scary to me. My first plan was to try and raise it semi-naturally--I haven't had any exercise in about 3-4 weeks, which I believe might be greatly contributing to the low T levels. I'm planning on beginning a regimen of sprints, with lots of lower body heavy-lifting alongside supplementation of daily DHEA, Tongkat Ali and regular vitamins (B-complex, Zinc, Magnesium) Do you all think this would make a negligible difference, and I should just go straight to the doctor? I think I've had fairly low levels of T my entire life including throughout adolescence, except a minor period where I was very very heavy into soccer and...I actually felt fucking phenomenal, confident, etc, which I think was largely attributed to higher levels of T. If that's the case, then it'd be my damned life's goal to raise those levels.

The one thing I'm worried about are the potential side-effects that may come from any pharmaceutical T increasers. Have you all used any of these before, and have they led to any particular side-effects that were bad?

[westwald]

That is never going to happen. Unaffordable.

Even if a quality analysis was cheap - say $100 - it would have to be performed on every small batch purchased since the supplier(s) can switch sources or otherwise have different batches each order.

COAs are only worth paying for if one is purchasing large quantities of a drug. Doing that is expensive and risky: group buys. Risky in many ways including Customs seizure and theft.

Face the facts. You and I and anyone else with less riches than ScienceGuy will be using or not using what is offered for sale - first-party COA or usually no COA.

All the discussion about COAs is intellectual masturbation.
It leads nowhere except circles and reeks of whiny tone.

What does ScienceGuy's $ worth have to do with anything - and why do you assume I have less $? Anyway..

People wanting to know exactly what they are putting in their body is intellectual masturbation? Well, I for one will keep on fapping.

Sorry, but you sound like a shill for the vendors, and yes, I would be willing to pay 2-3x the price (not that it would even come to that) for third party testing on EVERY batch. God forbid some company makes less money or has to go out of business because they can't afford the testing and stay profitable. Someone will fill the void - where there's a demand, there's a supply. But when you take the position of "we all know damn well that we will continue to take x chemical, CoA or not", you're just letting the sellers know that they can keep their current system in place and all of us will continue to buy from them. You shouldn't speak for others.

You made me think of a vaguely similar issue in the 70's, when the automotive industry said that the government mandating cataltic convertors to be put on all automobiles would, without a doubt, completely bankrupt the industry. Of course, it didn't (and I'm not comparing Nootropic vendors to automobile companies, but it's just the "it can't be done!" mentality that we all know is total bull).

Edited by westwald, 04 November 2013 - 10:59 PM.

[Isochroma]

Rior: My T level is low but not 'naturally'. It's the Xenoestrogen plague. I have never taken any hormone before my current successful treament program - other than the ones in the food and water.

Read all about my case in the thread on this forum: Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

As it is off-topic in this thread, Rior, please subscribe and post in the thread above for questions, comments etc. and/or private message me. We can chat about those issues there without cluttering this thread.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 05 November 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[NG_F]

That is never going to happen. Unaffordable.

Even if a quality analysis was cheap - say $100 - it would have to be performed on every small batch purchased since the supplier(s) can switch sources or otherwise have different batches each order.

COAs are only worth paying for if one is purchasing large quantities of a drug. Doing that is expensive and risky: group buys. Risky in many ways including Customs seizure and theft.

Face the facts. You and I and anyone else with less riches than ScienceGuy will be using or not using what is offered for sale - first-party COA or usually no COA.

All the discussion about COAs is intellectual masturbation.
It leads nowhere except circles and reeks of whiny tone.

What does ScienceGuy's $ worth have to do with anything - and why do you assume I have less $? Anyway..

People wanting to know exactly what they are putting in their body is intellectual masturbation? Well, I for one will keep on fapping.

Sorry, but you sound like a shill for the vendors, and yes, I would be willing to pay 2-3x the price (not that it would even come to that) for third party testing on EVERY batch. God forbid some company makes less money or has to go out of business because they can't afford the testing and stay profitable. Someone will fill the void - where there's a demand, there's a supply. But when you take the position of "we all know damn well that we will continue to take x chemical, CoA or not", you're just letting the sellers know that they can keep their current system in place and all of us will continue to buy from them. You shouldn't speak for others.

You made me think of a vaguely similar issue in the 70's, when the automotive industry said that the government mandating cataltic convertors to be put on all automobiles would, without a doubt, completely bankrupt the industry. Of course, it didn't (and I'm not comparing Nootropic vendors to automobile companies, but it's just the "it can't be done!" mentality that we all know is total bull).

Westwald, very good points!! Just to add that Isochroma is not a shill, he suggested either NM or NSN are both good distributors .NSN has been around for a while so they have a 10/10 on the scam rating ( see previous posts) and NM has just recently become one of the distributors from the 2nd known world supplier for coluracetam so they only have 2 reviews and dont have the history as of yet to achieve a rating.

BTW if you'd like to get third party testing, I'd be more then happy to work with you and a few others in various areas

[NG_F]

With the right amount of Money and connections, anything is achievable! Controlled substances can be had, so I dont see why any nootropic that can be synthesized cannot be made to 100% standard purity !

[▲420MD]

I just want to remind all of you that you are still treading the water of "Research chemicals" just like those in Spice(JWH, AM, AKB, Etc), NBOMes, DOx, Whatever - these products are notorious for being impure, completely fake, or something entirely different than advertised. I want you all to know you ARE gambling with this compound at the moment and if I were to decide to order I'd be ordering from the most reputable vendor possible - New Star Nootropic's purity sheets usually have the company that tested them for NSN - I suggest multiple members contacting this company and I will attempt to find contact information. Even if it were to cost money, I really suggest trying to obtain a physical copy of the reports also - this way there is more a "bind" with the report because it's physically infront of you and would be classified as a flasified document instead of a falsified file - legally.

I've never seen "twitches" mentioned in any study for any racetam, but if any other member has information in regards to that please do share. I have epilepsy - myoclonic epilepsy, I have those twitches 24/7/365 - hold out your hands infront of your face and relax them completely then look at your fingers if they are shaking then that would be considered myoclonus - any neurologist can quickly diagnosis you for it. If a substance is inducing myoclonus is healthy people that is inducing some kind of major chemical imbalance in your brain that I would be concerned about.

I cannot recall any nootropic products making such a splashy, messy release on the market and I would be concerned that high level vendors that once stocked products are no longer stocking them.

If you all really want to test this purity of a batch of Colouracetam I suggest contacting DanceSafe and working through them to get a GS/HPLC test or Marquis test done at the minimum. I have multiple contacts that can do both GS and HPLC, both together and simple marquis tests.

If someone could send me a small amount <100mg (or have someone else do it) I could measure the physical properties of the compound and see if they match actual colouracetam - I think chemical analysis is the best route but examining the solubility, melting points, vape points, etc would provide a easier route to identifying the compound in question.

I respect you all greatly for the experimentation but it would be incredibly unfortunate if you wound up damaging yourselves in the process of experimental brain enhancement.

[typ3z3r0]

hold out your hands infront of your face and relax them completely then look at your fingers if they are shaking then that would be considered myoclonus

They seem fine. I stopped taking coluracetam 4 days ago, and while I do get twitches sometimes now, they only last for a couple of seconds. Apparently acetylcholinesterase inhibitors can cause fasciculations/twitches too. Besides the fasciculations, I've also been having quite vivid dreams, which have all been quite damn weird, but have been enjoyable for me to think about when I wake up. Before I started using coluracetam, it was quite rare for me to remember my dreams at all.

[FW900]

I just want to remind all of you that you are still treading the water of "Research chemicals" just like those in Spice(JWH, AM, AKB, Etc), NBOMes, DOx, Whatever - these products are notorious for being impure, completely fake, or something entirely different than advertised. I want you all to know you ARE gambling with this compound at the moment and if I were to decide to order I'd be ordering from the most reputable vendor possible - New Star Nootropic's purity sheets usually have the company that tested them for NSN - I suggest multiple members contacting this company and I will attempt to find contact information. Even if it were to cost money, I really suggest trying to obtain a physical copy of the reports also - this way there is more a "bind" with the report because it's physically infront of you and would be classified as a flasified document instead of a falsified file - legally.

I've never seen "twitches" mentioned in any study for any racetam, but if any other member has information in regards to that please do share. I have epilepsy - myoclonic epilepsy, I have those twitches 24/7/365 - hold out your hands infront of your face and relax them completely then look at your fingers if they are shaking then that would be considered myoclonus - any neurologist can quickly diagnosis you for it. If a substance is inducing myoclonus is healthy people that is inducing some kind of major chemical imbalance in your brain that I would be concerned about.

I cannot recall any nootropic products making such a splashy, messy release on the market and I would be concerned that high level vendors that once stocked products are no longer stocking them.

If you all really want to test this purity of a batch of Colouracetam I suggest contacting DanceSafe and working through them to get a GS/HPLC test or Marquis test done at the minimum. I have multiple contacts that can do both GS and HPLC, both together and simple marquis tests.

If someone could send me a small amount <100mg (or have someone else do it) I could measure the physical properties of the compound and see if they match actual colouracetam - I think chemical analysis is the best route but examining the solubility, melting points, vape points, etc would provide a easier route to identifying the compound in question.

I respect you all greatly for the experimentation but it would be incredibly unfortunate if you wound up damaging yourselves in the process of experimental brain enhancement.

These are all valid concerns but I feel that some people are prone to muscle twitches and racetam use can provoke these twitches. From personal experience, phenylpiracetam also exacerbates my muscle "twitches" (fasiculations). If EVERYONE using NSN's coluracetam experienced fasiculations, then toxicity would be a concern. But seeing that I and one other person (typ3z3r0) are the only people who have used NSN's coluracetam and have responded with fasiculations, I doubt this side effect is widespread. In addition I've read anecdotal posts indicating that racetams can cause fasiculations (posted below). Thank you for your concern but I do not feel it is a call for alarm. The HNMR spectral analysis checked out, if it's real the coluracetam should be pure.

However, I do think NSN should consider US based spectral analysis rather than solely relying on the reports supplied by the Chinese.

http://www.longecity...-piracetam-use/
http://www.longecity...m-and-twtiches/ (second post)

[westwald]

If you all really want to test this purity of a batch of Colouracetam I suggest contacting DanceSafe and working through them to get a GS/HPLC test or Marquis test done at the minimum. I have multiple contacts that can do both GS and HPLC, both together and simple marquis tests.

If someone could send me a small amount <100mg (or have someone else do it) I could measure the physical properties of the compound and see if they match actual colouracetam - I think chemical analysis is the best route but examining the solubility, melting points, vape points, etc would provide a easier route to identifying the compound in question.

I respect you all greatly for the experimentation but it would be incredibly unfortunate if you wound up damaging yourselves in the process of experimental brain enhancement.

Excellent idea about using the Dancesafe project - that will at least tell you the subtance is what it is, and they usually will name any signifigant impurity.

I think we can find a better way though. NG_F - I will PM you soon, it sounds like you have some resources and I have some as well. I think we can find a solid domestic lab that would be willing to offer subtantially lower rates if we came at them with lots of recurring business. We can talk specifics in private message - I'll try and write you something before the end of the day.

I also wanted to add I have been using the Newmind colouracetam - first week I took 80mg TID, but now take ~30-40mg TID. No negative effects, except for stiff neck during end of first week (I just took a bunch of Piracetam over the weekend and that seemed to remedy it). I'll write more about the log I've been keeping in another thread, but I think their batch is very pure, looks exactly like ScieceGuys and it did come w/ a NMR, but I think it was just from the lab. I wish they'd apply the Liftmode way of doing things to Newmind - everything I've ever gotten from Liftmode has had a third party CoA included, all from US domestic labs.

Running late for a meeting - hope everyone has a good one!

[westwald]

I just want to remind all of you that you are still treading the water of "Research chemicals" just like those in Spice(JWH, AM, AKB, Etc), NBOMes, DOx, Whatever - these products are notorious for being impure, completely fake, or something entirely different than advertised. I want you all to know you ARE gambling with this compound at the moment and if I were to decide to order I'd be ordering from the most reputable vendor possible - New Star Nootropic's purity sheets usually have the company that tested them for NSN - I suggest multiple members contacting this company and I will attempt to find contact information. Even if it were to cost money, I really suggest trying to obtain a physical copy of the reports also - this way there is more a "bind" with the report because it's physically infront of you and would be classified as a flasified document instead of a falsified file - legally.

I respect you all greatly for the experimentation but it would be incredibly unfortunate if you wound up damaging yourselves in the process of experimental brain enhancement.

There may be some similarities, but I'd say there is a HUGE difference between Nootropics and the typical Research Chemical vendor. They all sell schedule I/II (and III/IV) analogs, things that when consumed produce effects similar if not exact to Schedule I/II drugs. These tend to be drugs of a abuse, you're talking stuff like Acetyl-Fentanyl, NBOMES (nearly as potent as LSD with similar effects), and synthetic cannabinoids. I know there are many others, but those seem to be the main ones.

Nootropics are not even close in this regard - a group funded by some kind of anti-drug alliance I really doubt would have trouble with Nootropics - things that have potential to make you smarter - rather than stuff that is getting you high. I agree, they still are both technically research chemicals (except for Russia and a few other places where they are produced by big pharma and commonly used), but it's really apples and oranges.

I'd like to see Nootropics become more prevelant in the West, and other's may disagree, but I think the #1 way we can establish ourselves as different from run of the mill RC vendors is through strict purity testing (every batch, just like the pharmacutical industry), to let the FDA know we take this stuff seriously, and do not want a single incident of a tainted product causing harm to our fellow man.

And you're right - if I were to make an investment, I would stick to the "tried and trued" racetams, waiting until more conclusive studies have been done on these newer, emerging ones. There is such an enourmous market out there who has no idea what even Piracetam or Aniracetam is, and even with these two compounds alone, if they were to make it into mainstream culture, it could create a large market demand for such things. The lesser known ones would still be available from other places, where people are willing be guninea pigs can still get what they want (not dissing anyone who does this - my curiosity gets the best of me and I like being at the forefront of such discoveries, so I'm a fellow guninea pig).

But the movement of people wanting to age slower, retain brain function/memory longer, and simily live life to its fullest (look at how many people are on testoserone replacement therapy vs. back in the day) is getting mainstream acceptance as it should - so why shouldn't these novel compounds? It's just if we're every to completely remove ourselves from the grey market, we need to do things right and not skip over stuff like third party testing so XYZ Company can make more money (most of the Nootropic companies seem to be 1 or 2 man shows). I'm sure there are labs that test chemicals that have tons of downtime, and a deal could be worked out to get testing costs much lower, so even mom/pops size Nootropic companies can hopefully survive (their biggest problem at the moment seems to be their own greed - sites like etizolamdepot charging almost 100 dollars for 300mg of Colouracetam in solution is just insulting. And they sell Etizolam blotters right next to the Racetams, "medidative blotters".

The faster we seperate ourselves from those types of places, the better.

[Potent]

Just chiming in here. I bought 3 g of coluracetam from new mind. They included a paper copy of a hnmr and lcms. The hnmr exactly matches the one posted on NSN to the date and time. Most likely meaning that new mind coluracetam is also from the Season supplier mentioned by isochroma.

3rd party testing is optimal, but unless someone here is willing to fork over the cash and figure out logistics (batch per batch), we're outta luck. I'm hoping once NSN has a large stock, that they plan to US 3rd party batch test, as they do with their other racetams. I'm assuming it wasn't cost effective for the first small batch to be US 3rd party tested.

I am also getting small fasiculations every now and then from colu dosing. I am not particularly concerned about them... It seems like a natural consequence of enhanced choline uptake and acetylcholine synthesis - that is speculation.

Edited by Potent, 10 November 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Justchill]

Can somebody give an overview of where to buy Coluracetam in EU?
Maybe want to try it (next to so much other supps)

[leftside]

There may be some similarities, but I'd say there is a HUGE difference between Nootropics and the typical Research Chemical vendor. They all sell schedule I/II (and III/IV) analogs, things that when consumed produce effects similar if not exact to Schedule I/II drugs.

Or stronger lol.

I'm currently trying out PRL-8-53, and will try out IDRA-21 in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to NSN getting Clouracetam in stock again so I can give that one a try as well. Comparing these to RC's such as NBOMe's is a little far fetched....

[ken_shiro]

Can somebody give an overview of where to buy Coluracetam in EU?
Maybe want to try it (next to so much other supps)

Maybe from HoxtonNootropics.
I don't know if he is reliable. He is a new seller.



http://www.longecity...ndent-analysis/

Edited by ken_shiro, 28 November 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[westwald]

There may be some similarities, but I'd say there is a HUGE difference between Nootropics and the typical Research Chemical vendor. They all sell schedule I/II (and III/IV) analogs, things that when consumed produce effects similar if not exact to Schedule I/II drugs.

Or stronger lol.

I'm currently trying out PRL-8-53, and will try out IDRA-21 in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to NSN getting Clouracetam in stock again so I can give that one a try as well. Comparing these to RC's such as NBOMe's is a little far fetched....

I guess you didn't read my whole post. I said the exact same thing.

"There may be some similarities, but I'd say there is a HUGE difference between Nootropics and the typical Research Chemical vendor. They all sell schedule I/II (and III/IV) analogs, things that when consumed produce effects similar if not exact to Schedule I/II drugs. These tend to be drugs of a abuse, you're talking stuff like Acetyl-Fentanyl, NBOMES (nearly as potent as LSD with similar effects), and synthetic cannabinoids. I know there are many others, but those seem to be the main ones.

Nootropics are not even close in this regard - a group funded by some kind of anti-drug alliance I really doubt would have trouble with Nootropics - things that have potential to make you smarter - rather than stuff that is getting you high. I agree, they still are both technically research chemicals (except for Russia and a few other places where they are produced by big pharma and commonly used), but it's really apples and oranges."

Maybe read the whole post next time?

[Justchill]

We need good noots to counteract the damage from RC's ;-)
Some of them synergize quite well actually.

Edited by Justchill, 29 November 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[phil8462643]

We need good noots to counteract the damage from RC's ;-)
Some of them synergize quite well actually.

If I knew you, I would urge you to be careful

[Justchill]

Off course... I'm just kidding!