123 replies to this topic

[niner]

I've hidden a number of OT and in some cases trollish posts to try to get this thread back on track. Let's keep it on topic, ok?

[manic_racetam]

I hesitantly gave this stuff a try. I try to steer clear of anything that influences GABA receptors. I did notice minor alcohol cravings which I attribute to this stuff. To me it seemed like mostly a dud. I don't mind paying a high price to at least try one of the more exotic sounding substances but when the effects aren't productive, helpful or even interesting I won't be back to buy more.

I can't relate to people getting any sort of mood stabilizing effects on this stuff, it seemed to make me feel weird. I was hoping the "feeling a bit off" effect it had on me would be transient but I was happy to end the trial after two weeks of taking 50-100mg per day.

I didn't notice an effect on motivation or energy levels. Just made me a little moody, slightly impaired my driving ability, caused mild alcohol cravings and caused some very mild alterations in color perception (slightly brighter colors or more contrast between colors or perhaps slightly increased color saturation)

I'll keep the half box I've got leftover in case I'm ever in the mood to feel weird for the day. Other than that this stuff will likely be on my shelf for a while.

[@now]

Thanks for sharing.

I had to abort for now after 5 days because of stomach troubles. They may not be related as I had a cold, so I'll wash out for two weeks and give it another try. So far I initially felt some mood-lifting, but the law of diminishing returns kicked in after a day or three (at 50mg in the morning).

But again, the cold may have played a role. So I'll just wait a bit, try again and report.

[Climactic]

I didn't notice an effect on motivation or energy levels.

Did you try this particularly when running low on energy or sleep?

[Climactic]

I had to abort for now after 5 days because of stomach troubles. They may not be related

Sorry to hear about the stomach troubles. Strangely enough, I had stomach trouble on Monday too, but not on Tuesday. May very well be coincidence. I took 50mg (one pill) each day. On Monday I took 4g of activated carbon over the course of the day, which may have helped my stomach recover before the day was over. If you like, you can try it. More on-topic in time.

[@now]

I have a sensitive stomach, and it may be a coincidence that you have it too. Curious how you'll fare though.

[gizmobrain]

Given the mostly negative results here, anyone in the US that plans to dump their's, PM me first.

Edited by zrbarnes, 26 September 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[Climactic]

Here is both sides of the info sheet for Ladasten (in Russian) in two separate images. If you can translate the whole thing into English, it would be appreciated.




Below is the translated text via Google Translate, with interesting parts highlighted by me.

Page 1
INSTRUCTIONS on medical use Ladasten ® Registration number: LSR-01 0257/08 Trade naevanie preparation: • Ladasten Chemical ratsionannoe naevanie: N-(2-adamantyl)-N-(2-n-bromophenyl) amine. INN ini Combination naevanie: Adamantilbromfenilamin. Dosage form: tablets. Each tablet contains: Active ingredient: adamantilbromfenilamin (adamantilfenilamin) - 0.05 g, and O 1 About the city Other ingredients: potato starch, microcrystalline cellulose Skye, magnesium stearate. DESCRIPTION Tablets are white or white with Valium shade, circular ploskotsi lindricheskie chamfered. Dosage 100 m Mr. risk. Farmakaterapevticheskaya group: antiastenicheskoe agent. KodATH: - FARMAKOgINAMIKA Lada walls • derives adamant to have a positive influence on the financial performance ical and mental capacity. In the spectrum of the drug combined assets viruyuschee, anxiolytic, immunostimulatory effects and elements aktaprotektor tion activity. • There are no Ladasten gipnosedativnye and muscle relaxant properties drug has no addictive potential. In its application, as opposed to the action interaction typical of psychostimulants, almost developing phenomenon giperstimulya tion, and the after-effects in the form of functional exhaustion of the body. The therapeutic effect Ladasten • patients with asthenic and anxious asthenic disorders seen since the early days of its use in the form of a report livoy reduction asthenic symptoms, indicators of emotional stress, somatovegetativnyh symptoms, medication helps to restore the activity, and to creased endurance. The mechanism of action Ladasten • associated with increased dopamine release from presinap elliptic terminal, its reuptake blockade and increased biosynthesis, due lennogo gene expression of tyrosine hydroxylase, as well as its modulating influence on the GABA-benzodiazepine-receptor complex hlorionoformny, eliminating reducing benzodiazepine reception, growing under stress. • Ladasten becomes stronger em GABA-ergic mediation, reducing the expression of the gene controlling the synthesis of GABA transporter, carrying neurotransmitter reuptake. • Ladasten nontoxic (LD50 rats than 10000 mg / kg or more than 100 times exceed goes effective dose). Pharmacokinetics Time to maximum concentration (T m.,) is 2.4 hours, the maxi mum concentration (Cm.,) is 3b3, 3 ng / ml, the half-life of the drug (T 11 ) - 1 1,21 hours.
Page 2
Asthenic conditions of various origins, including the somatic diseases s and after infectious diseases. Neurasthenia. Pregnancy, lactation, children under 18 years, individual Napier drug dependence. Used inside, regardless of the meal. Optimal single dose preparations ta- 50-100 mg daily, 100-200 g m, distributed on 2 admission for the day. Preparation should not be used after 1 six hours of the day. The duration of the course of the drug is 2.4 week. May experience symptoms of excessive activation and sleep disorders, which rye did not require discontinuation of the drug, it is advisable to decrease the dose. At elevated individual sensitivity to the drug may develop allergic reactions Nations. Overdose With substantial overdose may develop sedation. Treatment: non-specific detoxification therapy. Ladasten • reduces hypnotic effects of thiopental sodium, does not weaken the Anxi lytic effect of benzodiazepines. Tablets 50 mg and 100 mg. On 25 tablets in blister foil for livinilhloridnoy and aluminum foil printed patent. 1 or 2 blister package with instructions for use in a pack of cardboard. In a dry, dark place at a temperature of 25 a. Keep out of the reach of children. 2 year. Do not use after expiration date printed on the package. Pharmacy purchasing terms By prescription. CJSC "Pharmaceutical Company" Lecco " 601 125, Vladimir region., Petushki area pass. Volginsky, t / f (49243) 71-5-52. Customer complaints sent to the address CJSC "Pharmaceutical Company" Lecco " 601 125, Vladimir region., Petushki area Fold. Volginsky, t / f (49243) 71-5-52.

Edited by Climactic, 29 September 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Climactic]

Nootrabiolabs has lately been selling bulk phenylpiracetam on ebay. CoA here. It is cheaper than Phenotropil and Demiurge. I have yet to try it in 100-300 mg doses. I also have to subjectively compare its taste and potency with the other two.

Hadn't seen this yet, thanks. These are the guys I got noopept from. The packaging didn't do much to inspire product confidence, but it seemed to be genuine.

zrbarnes, unfortunately the Nootrabiolabs bulk phenylpiracetam did not work at all. It is either fake or the inactive stereoisomer. I tested it twice at up to 100mg x4, i.e. 400mg, with no effect. In contrast, both Phenotropil and Demiurge work noticeably fine at 100-200mg. The taste too was different. Demiurge tastes a combination of being starchy (tasteless) plus slightly bitter. In contrast, the bulk powder is entirely tasteless, and is not bitter at all. I wasted 70 dollars.

[gizmobrain]

zrbarnes, unfortunately the Nootrabiolabs bulk phenylpiracetam did not work at all. It is either fake or the inactive stereoisomer. I tested it twice at up to 100mg x4, i.e. 400mg, with no effect. In contrast, both Phenotropil and Demiurge work noticeably fine at 100-200mg. The taste too was different. Demiurge tastes a combination of being starchy (tasteless) plus slightly bitter. In contrast, the bulk powder is entirely tasteless, and is not bitter at all. I wasted 70 dollars.

That's unfortunate. Thanks for the warning.

[LeonardElijah]

Interesting report. Thanks. I should have some of this on the shelf.

Got some. Tried it. Basically a "boring" log: works as "advertised". Either there is a serious side effect - or it is very strange something like this isn't available in the west.

Details:
- took 50mg in the morning
- kicked in after 2h
- notably stimulating and anxiolitic
- better mood
- No noticable side effects

I think of it as anti-lethargy++ : you do all the little things without getting tired. No brain fog either. The difference compared to noopept is that you won't think "better" (but "more" - just better perserverance).

So if you're smart enough you'll get focus+++. I can also see how this will lift people out of a foggy/lethargic period: the stuff kicks in in 2h and lasts all day. Use that energy to change your habits and focus, keep at it some time, continue living without ladasten (my theory being that after a few weeks you get used to a different rythm)

I do think the dose of 50mg in the AM is enough given the half life of 11h AND you need to good care of yourself given that you'll burn more energy. Anyway, it definitely battles something that lot of people "fight".

[golden1]

That's odd. I just received Nootrabiolabs' "phenylpiracetam" and tried it @60mg to start and noticed an unmistakable stimulation..dosed 100mg a couple hours later and the effects were obvious(noticed a negative too, that it was hard to focus on the details of music because I felt so alert and in a different mode. Dosing 100mg again after some hours I feel slightly jittery but it is in the background..sort of a nice jitteryness that keeps me alert which is an odd feeling. It's kind of like you have to relax into it though or its similar to weak caffeine jitters.

I can't explain it, except that I am highly susceptible to placebo... ? I feel it right now :O

That'd be cool if i could convince myself an inert powder did this, really though hahah

[Climactic]

That's odd. I just received Nootrabiolabs' "phenylpiracetam" and tried it @60mg to start and noticed an unmistakable stimulation.

I will give it another proper try in the next week. About how long, in minutes or hours, does it take for Nootrabiolabs phenylpiracetam to start working noticeably for you?

Another probable way to test phenylpiracetam is to test its effect with alcohol. It may be expected that it cancels some of alcohol's observed anti-cognitive effects.

Edited by Climactic, 29 September 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[golden1]

I'd say around the same time as caffeine, so pretty fast, but not so fast. Not really sure since I wasn't looking at the time, I know it seemed to increase to maybe double the initial feeling over a whole hour or so though.


I should mention I would notice piracetam easily, so maybe it is a matter of a large potency difference and I respond rather well?

Is the effect from either of the other two physically stimulating, in a amphetamine-like "it's so easy to walk/get up"? I don't have much physical stimulation although there is some(certainly not anything like amphetamine physical stimulation though), but it might just be my mind's stimulation making it feel so. No increased heart rate. Some anxious feelings, but they are fleeting. I also noticed that ,although music seemed hard to focus on, when I smoked a bit of weed(heh), I could listen clearly and I got the neat brain/skin shivering feeling when a real good part of a song hits you a decent amount of times. Normally that had stopped happening. I also noticed that the high from the weed was much less present feeling, yet it's positive effects were still there.

How does the Demiurge powder dissolve in water? The powder I have turns the water slightly cloudy when it dissolves(or is it just fine particles..I will try to find out) which seemed kind of odd, but I don't even know it's water solubility so it's hard to guess from that, plus things like l-glutamine turn water cloudy as they dissolve.

edit: you mention alcohol, I take 3mg clonazepam daily(a benzodiazepine), so possibly that amplifies the perceived effects.. as there is more to reverse.. hah
I'm going to figure this out, lol

Edited by golden1, 29 September 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[golden1]

The powder is pretty suspicious, yet I have no idea what to expect. I'd like to see how it reacts to high heat, but I'm not sure how to best do that.. maybe put a bit on the stove top coil. The lack of taste and anything defining makes it appear inert since I wouldnt think adding a phenol onto piracetam would have that effect..

I'm actually leaning towards placebo atm, but I dont know.

[golden1]

Heat test inconclusive, melted into a small malleable black mass under direct flame, however that is a pretty not useful finding. I will try it again tomorrow @ 100mg, thinking back it is hard to imagine the stimulation and everything was placebo(I even felt like my appetite was suppressed.. lol), however the powder is so not drug-like in physical characteristics it's hard to believe it is legit, especially with your report of it being inactive in comparison to other sources.


Not sure I want to take more of it, but I guess if it is inactive they probably aren't looking to rip me off and kill me as well..lol. If it turns out inactive, I swear I always get scammed on ebay, don't think I got anything legit.. too bad I can't really report it since they did send a package and such.. probably not worth the trouble. Oh well, I guess time will tell. (and Science guy's coluracetam offer makes up for getting bunk powder if so anyway :P)

I'm not sure what it could be otherwise, probably lots of inactive things would act the same in such a fine powder.. usually chemicals taste like something more though and mix better with water(or don't mix at all, ex: aniracetam).

[@now]

This was precisely why I bought "genuine" (pharmaceutical grade) phenotropil/noopept/.... at the time. Granted, being fairly "new" I felt more comfortable buying this in stead of some powder. In hindsight I think the biggest advantage is in easy dosing and maybe more predictable/consistent results.

Any progress on Ladasten data yet? I retried yesterday and the stomach issues stayed away.

The reason was that I realized I had two interesting things yesterday: a minor back injury (muscle) and a rare axiety provoking situation. If Ladasten would do half of what the insert says, its effects should be very noticable. This N=1, placebo sensitive situation gave two remarkable reactions:

1) my muscles in my back got really cramped and painful. Either placebo or just the stimulant effect (which was pretty minor otherwise)

2) anxiety: hard to explain, might be placebo but "something" was going on. Anxiety would rise, become physically unpleasant, and the could be "commanded away". Which I never even come close to in these (rare) cases. But of course, a good placebo might do the same.

I won't be trying this more structurally, as every time I take it I get some sort of side effect which makes it not worth my while. Especially compared to say incidental phenylpiracetam (stimulatory) or noopept (focus, relaxed) usage.

Edited by @now, 30 September 2012 - 05:05 AM.

[Climactic]

Nootrabiolabs bulk phenylpiracetam is totally bogus. I waited a week to shed any possible tolerance, and then tested it again, followed by a test of Phenotropil later. It has practically no stimulant effect when you compare it with the very noticeable effect that real phenylpiracetam (Phenotropil) has, with the latter starting to work within 30 minutes. I do not have any other test data on melting point or solubility at this time.

As of now, I use 50 mg bromantane as a very mild stimulant or mild mood enhancer sometimes, but I have yet to test its significance in more challenging endeavors.

Edited by Climactic, 12 October 2012 - 07:23 AM.

[manic_racetam]

I'd be cautious mixing this stuff with caffeine and sleep deprivation. I forgot to post this but over a week ago I got back from a trip to Asia and was extremely jet-lagged. I was stuck waking up at 4:30 or 5am every day and was trying to make it past 8pm before falling asleep. So keep in mind I'd had quite a bit of caffeine throughout the day, probably close to 800-1000mg in the form of coffee an energy drinks (nasty habit, lol) and decided to try a 50mg Ladasten tablet.

First let me admit I knew this wasn't the recommended use of the substance, it says right on the box/insert that it shouldn't be taken after 2 or 4pm as to not interrupt your sleep schedule, but I wanted to see how it would affect fatigue and low levels of sleep. So I took 50mg at approximately 6:30pm.

About 2 or three hours later I felt very anxious. Not in an overstimulated way though. It was a bizarre feeling of anxiety and extreme exhaustion or relaxation. It was bizarre and a little frightening. Caused very erratic moods and that uncomfortable feeling of a borderline anxiety attack. With it's long half life the feeling didn't go away quickly but eventually I was able to fall asleep.

Luckily I've had bouts of acute anxiety before and recognized the symptoms and didn't let it fly out of control in my head.

I was tempted to take some afobazole when I got home but decided I shouldn't mix another russian pharmaceutical into the slew of stuff already in my body. Eventually was able to fall asleep but sleep was far from restful. Anyway, counterproductive to my goal in taking it.

Keep in mind that I was sleep deprived and jet lagged, had ingested more caffeine than I usually would have and had taken my normal slew of other supplements. So I'm not saying don't take Ladasten/Bromantane, I'm just saying maybe be cautious when mixing it with other stuff or not taking it as recommended.

[@now]

This sounds pretty much how I felt when I took it in an anxiety provoking situation. I also felt weird but I noticed that the "borderline anxiety attack" stayed below my treshold.

Unpleasant, but it literally went "only so far" (earlier I described it as that I could command it a way - to a point; your description is more accurate). It is very hard to put that feeling into words.

I can see how lots of caffein + jetlag equals anxiety provication. So it definetely does something there, in a weird way.

[TheMindofRobert]

What's up everyone? Last post here was in Oct. Anyone have any new experience using Ladasten? Thumbs up? Thumbs down?

[Climactic]

Anyone have any new experience using Ladasten?

I sometimes take 100 mg. For an unknown reason, it seems to have a stronger effect in the evening than earlier in the day. In fact, the included literature suggests not taking it after 1600 hours, but I feel that's when it works best. It is not very strong at this dose, and cost prohibitive at higher doses. This is all I have to say thus far.

Edited by Climactic, 23 November 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[TheMindofRobert]

Anyone have any new experience using Ladasten?

I sometimes take 100 mg. For an unknown reason, it seems to have a stronger effect in the evening than earlier in the day. In fact, the included literature suggests not taking it after 1600 hours, but I feel that's when it works best. It is not very strong at this dose, and cost prohibitive at higher doses. This is all I have to say thus far.

So all in all it's really worth it?

[Climactic]

So all in all it's really worth it?

I think that's a very relative question - relative to the alternatives, and so it cannot be answered easily.

[TheMindofRobert]

So all in all it's really worth it?

I think that's a very relative question - relative to the alternatives, and so it cannot be answered easily.

Oh my mistake. That should have said "So all in all it's NOT really worth it?"

[Climactic]

That should have said "So all in all it's NOT really worth it?"

Its effect on challenging exercise or after a night without sleep remains to be determined. Without doing these, I cannot say.

[TheMindofRobert]

That should have said "So all in all it's NOT really worth it?"

Its effect on challenging exercise or after a night without sleep remains to be determined. Without doing these, I cannot say.

So it's something that helps more in extreme situations? Not really a day in/day out productivity boost.

[Climactic]

So it's something that helps more in extreme situations? Not really a day in/day out productivity boost.

Right. If your typical day is 9-5, then almost certainly not worth it at a 100 mg dose, but this doesn't mean a larger dose won't work. I'd look at other options for a day in, day out boost. Which? Other than nicotine - which needs very special care, I don't really know. Do you?

Edited by Climactic, 23 November 2012 - 07:18 AM.

[@now]

It's not worth it imo. Did stimulate and gave a weird calm (as manic_racetam also pointed out: weird). Plus, it gave me stomach troubles.

I threw what I had left away. I'd rather use phenylpiracetam or sulbutiamine if I need a stimulant.

[Climactic]

I'd rather use phenylpiracetam or sulbutiamine if I need a stimulant.

IMO, the problem with phenylpiracetam is moderately-rapid tolerance (per my experience anyway), although the tolerance reverts itself in a few days. One needs stimulants that keep working day in and day out, with no or very low tolerance.

I can't say I ever had any gastric trouble from bromantane.

I do wish some other adamantane derivatives were available in the market. There are some different ones that have been studied and shown to work.

Edited by Climactic, 23 November 2012 - 07:28 AM.