123 replies to this topic

[@now]

I never use stimulants day-in, day-out. That would wear me out, so no issues there. But with sulbutiamine one could cycle to get 4-5 days of stimulant behaviour. I don't think you should want that though.

[TheMindofRobert]

I threw what I had left away. I'd rather use phenylpiracetam or sulbutiamine if I need a stimulant.

Yeah Sulbutiamine. Can I ask how would you describe the effects of it?

[@now]

I think there are better descriptions on this forum than I can give you :-)

[unregistered_user]

What is the recommended duration of treatment Ladastenom?
The recommended course of treatment is 2 - 4 weeks.

How often can I repeat the treatment Ladastenom?
Typically, one treatment is enough to Ladastenom complete reduction of fatigue.However Ladastenom treatment can be repeated if the doctor considers it appropriate. Any time limits on the duration of courses, or the intervals between them, no.

So how does this work exactly? Is this drug meant to be taken one time only? This information was taken off of the official Ladasten website. It sounds like it can be taken more than once if needed but that it is intended for a single use because it says "typically, one treatment is enough" and that a treatment consists of usage between 2-4 weeks.

Edited by semi-retarded-individual, 09 January 2013 - 01:17 AM.

[pseudonamed]

Is there anywhere to get it in the EU? Or only from the US?

[Longines]

Ladasten is a prescription only drug in Russia and you can't freely buy it. But you can try to talk a seller to sell you a pack saying that you've lost a prescript or something like that.
Ladasten makes feel years younger in terms of body retention from different kinds of fatigue. It makes similar to my mind, I can work longer like I'm 20 years old.
I am afraid it's the only positive feature I noticed. But liked it anyway.
It's not too expensive: about 8 US dollars for 25 pills pack. Phenotropil costs higher - about $12.

[unregistered_user]

Anybody taking this lately? I still have some left from a trade I made on this board.

[Sunwind]

I took 50mg Ladasten yesterday and didn't feel anything. I took 200mg roughly 4 hours ago and I can't say I feel any different, which is disappointing.

I waited 2 hours and then walked my dog in the park, my anxiety levels were about the same, I don't feel stimulated really either.. should I try more tomorrow? I can't find what a max safe dose would be.

[Climactic]

I took 50mg Ladasten yesterday and didn't feel anything. I took 200mg roughly 4 hours ago and I can't say I feel any different, which is disappointing.

I waited 2 hours and then walked my dog in the park, my anxiety levels were about the same, I don't feel stimulated really either.. should I try more tomorrow? I can't find what a max safe dose would be.

Maybe try it when you're particularly tired or stressed, in a 50 to 100 mg dose, to see if you feel any stimulation then. I don't know if one should take more than 100 mg at a time.

[xsiv1]

I'm still curious to try it as well as long as it's from a reputable source. I'd like to see more anecdotal reports from users.

[Longines]

You won't feel anything when you take it.
You have to do some heavy work or physical training to feel that you're not too tired as it used to be.
It powers up your endurance. Don't expect too much.

[xsiv1]

Thanks Longines.

[Dinvestor]

I've tried it and felt a little, slight anxiolytic effect from it at 50mg. But, I only seem to feel anything if I don't take it on successive days. If I take it the next day I don't really feel anything.

[xsiv1]

Thanks Dinvestor. I guess I could always try it as another compound in a cycle, say, for once a week use. I do train pretty rigorously after work with cardio and weights. Kind of pricey though for such a subtle feeling. Almost seems like a substitute for L-theanine.

[nathonas]

Does anyone know if Ladasten is considered an SSRI (Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor) drug? I know Wikipedia says that it is but I'm not 100% sure. That would explain why I sleep more when using it.

My own experience: I definietely feel more calm, concentrated, and less anxious when taking 50mg for the day. However I don't notice any increase in energy or anything else. Also after taking it a few days in a row, my sleep has been weird. At first I thought I was sleeping better, but I've slept longer than usual for the past few days and felt sleepier during the day. Also the positive effects seem to be considerably weaker after taking it more than one day in a row.

Edited by nathonas, 23 August 2013 - 01:34 AM.

[Dinvestor]

Man I just don't know about Ladasten. I've tried it several different times and when I first take it, I seem to feel the calming, but, if I take it several days in a row it doesn't seem to do much.

[123]

Guys,

According to the data I have on bromantan it:
a) increases release of dopamine to the synapse
b) inhibits DA reuptake & GABA
c) upregulates tyrosine hydroxylase level - enzyme which converts tyrosine to l-dopa and is limiting factor for dopamine synthesis


So, of course you may get effects described in this topic:
1) No increase in energy and activity - thats NE problem, not for DA.
2) If you have enough DA then it won't make you better. PFC activity correlates with DA in inversed U manner. So too much DA is not always good.
3) Effect disappearing on frequent use. Like all the stuff which locks DA in synapse and induces its release. You need to give some time for receptor to restore and remove DA form synaptic cleft.
4) It upregulates TH mRNA activity and that is good for increasing the DA production level in the cell. But I don't think you should expect this upregulation on such a basic level after just one or two recreational uses.

It's not a real stimulator, because we have them all banned in Russia (except phenotropil).
Just the anti-Parkinson drug (amantadine) refurbishing with some noot effect.

Edited by 123, 27 August 2013 - 02:23 AM.

[xsiv1]

Guys,

According to the data I have on bromantan it:
a) increases release of dopamine to the synapse
b) inhibits DA reuptake & GABA
c) upregulates tyrosine hydroxylase level - enzyme which converts tyrosine to l-dopa and is limiting factor for dopamine synthesis


So, of course you may get effects described in this topic:
1) No increase in energy and activity - thats NE problem, not for DA.
2) If you have enough DA then it won't make you better. PFC activity correlates with DA in inversed U manner. So too much DA is not always good.
3) Effect disappearing on frequent use. Like all the stuff which locks DA in synapse and induces its release. You need to give some time for receptor to restore and remove DA form synaptic cleft.
4) It upregulates TH mRNA activity and that is good for increasing the DA production level in the cell. But I don't think you should expect this upregulation on such a basic level after just one or two recreational uses.

It's not a real stimulator, because we have them all banned in Russia (except phenotropil).
Just the anti-Parkinson drug (amantadine) refurbishing with some noot effect.

So when you say "Banned in Russia", do you mean that it's regulated for sale as "prescription only" or do you mean it's been taken right off the shelves?

[Climactic]

b) inhibits DA reuptake & GABA

This is typed unclearly to the point of confusion. Did you mean to say that it inhibits GABA or that it inhibits GABA reuptake? The two effects are opposite. I assume you mean the later.

[123]

Guys,

According to the data I have on bromantan it:
a) increases release of dopamine to the synapse
b) inhibits DA reuptake & GABA
c) upregulates tyrosine hydroxylase level - enzyme which converts tyrosine to l-dopa and is limiting factor for dopamine synthesis


So, of course you may get effects described in this topic:
1) No increase in energy and activity - thats NE problem, not for DA.
2) If you have enough DA then it won't make you better. PFC activity correlates with DA in inversed U manner. So too much DA is not always good.
3) Effect disappearing on frequent use. Like all the stuff which locks DA in synapse and induces its release. You need to give some time for receptor to restore and remove DA form synaptic cleft.
4) It upregulates TH mRNA activity and that is good for increasing the DA production level in the cell. But I don't think you should expect this upregulation on such a basic level after just one or two recreational uses.

It's not a real stimulator, because we have them all banned in Russia (except phenotropil).
Just the anti-Parkinson drug (amantadine) refurbishing with some noot effect.

So when you say "Banned in Russia", do you mean that it's regulated for sale as "prescription only" or do you mean it's been taken right off the shelves?

I mean everything high (?) dopaminergiс is strictly illegal. Modafinil is illegal at the same grade as cocain and ketamine are, and ritalin is even more terribly. (its like Schedule II & I, just regulation for both is the same)
Deprenyl and Bupropion are officially registered medicines and you need just presciption. But [our] FDA doesn't allow them to market.
Don't know their logic.

Strongest stimulator we have on market is phenylpiracetam and the only reason we have is because of some pharm lobby. But it is not a real stimulator. This is more like adaptogen.
Suppose that the lobby is also the only reason why Bromantan got to market.

So, situation is little bit strange

I think the reason for it is that we had just downloaded too much mp3's...

Edited by 123, 27 August 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[123]

b) inhibits DA reuptake & GABA

This is typed unclearly to the point of confusion. Did you mean to say that it inhibits GABA or that it inhibits GABA reuptake? The two effects are opposite. I assume you mean the later.

Sorry, I mean that it inhibits expression of GABA transporter GAT-3 gene. So it's reuptake inhibition.
It increases GABA amount in synapse and GABA-benzodiazepine-chloride complex affinity.

Edited by 123, 27 August 2013 - 02:11 PM.

[xks201]

123 so how would I avoid tolerance of ladasten?
Also how would I fix a ne problem?

Edited by xks201, 27 August 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[xsiv1]

123 so how would I avoid tolerance of ladasten?
Also how would I fix a ne problem?

Simple. Use it sporadically. It seems to me that Picamilon is a superior compound when also used sporadically. At 50mgs, it will act as an anxiolytic, and when doses approach 150mgs, a stimulatory effect. For improvement in physical exercise, again, with sporadic use, Sulbutiamine works better. I see no reason to purchase this compound again, especially at its price point. There are simply far better options for anxiety, work performance and energy which have more studies to support their efficacy and safety. I'd hazard to say that Rhodiola, Ashwaghanda, or even Suntheanine with a coffee works better in my experience.

[madamshome]

Anyone cycling Ladasten & what frequency?

I have had great fx from the initial doses, (noticeably more identifiable benefits than picamilon, Sulbutiamine, rhodiola, ashwaghanda or theanine), so it seems to suit my biochemistry but am concerned about the poop out point.

Any longer term users out there who can help?

[Sunwind]

I ended up throwing the remainder of my pack out, aswell as that other similar russian one (can't remember the name) which was supposed to build up over time when you take it, both did nothing for me at all, no positives or negatives.

[xsiv1]

Did you purchase it from that eBay seller as well? I was thinking about trying it but am a bit weary of it not having any discernible effects. Wonder if it's genuine to begin with.

[Adaptogen]

Did anyone notice a significant change in exercise performance while taking bromanatan?

[Climactic]

Did anyone notice a significant change in exercise performance while taking bromanatan?

I hope to try this soon with my leftover bromantane. I currently have been using armodafinil as Nuvigil (legal), phenylpiracetam as Phenotropil, natural caffeine as tea or coffee, bitter cocoa powder, and nicotine gum as Nicorette as needed, even together as I did today. Each of these individually helps with exercise performance. From a mental performance pov, they are all at least partly complementary. Among these, only phenylpiracetam has fast tolerance. For safety reasons, note that I never use nicotine gum without extra vitamin C, glutathione, and the occasional beta blocker such as atenolol to bring the HR down. In contrast, bromantane isn't really a great stimulant in comparison. At least at 50 mg, it's really kind of pathetic as a stimulant. I am also unsure about the safety of taking it with any other stimulant. Regardless, I will try 50-100 mg of it in isolation for exercise.

For a source, if you can wait a month for shipment to arrive from Russia, I impartially recommend nootropic.ru.com - it has worked for me. They provide a tracking number which is ultimately trackable by USPS too in the US once it is scanned by them. Their price is much better than that of awakebrain.com.

One other thing I will mention is that a safe gabaergic such as L-theanine (Suntheanine rebranded) at 200 mg does make exercise a bit less painful. But none of these things are the primary ingredients of my workout stack. The primaries include beta-alanine, BCAAs, glutamine, arginine, creatine, citrate minerals, and whey - very much a work in progress.

Edited by Climactic, 10 January 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Thanks for the links, as well as your current workout stack. have you found the amino acid supplementation to be very beneficial? It's something i've looked into on occasion, but i reasoned that i should likely be getting a decent amount just from pre-workout protein supplementation.

I look forward to hearing how the bromantane fares for you in isolation.

[NocicepticBoss]

Weird that this study hasn't been posted yet:

Oliynyk, Sergiy, and Seikwan Oh. "The pharmacology of actoprotectors: practical application for improvement of mental and physical performance."Biomolecules & therapeutics 20.5 (2012): 446.
Abstract


Actoprotectors are preparations that enhance body stability against physical loads without increasing oxygen consumption or heat production. Or, in short, actoprotectors are synthetic adaptogens with a significant capacity to improve physical performance. This paper explores the history of actoprotectors’development, their pharmacological properties, mechanism of action, and practical application to the improvement of mental and physical performance. A brief summary of the clinico-pharmacological characteristics of the main representatives of this class (bemitil and bromantane) is provided. Some other synthesized compounds, and even natural ones such as ginseng, also are regarded as potential actoprotectors, and these are treated herein as well. Actoprotectors, owing to their wide-ranging pharmacological activities, high efficiency and safety, can be applied under either normal or extreme conditions.

Keywords: Actoprotector, Bemitil, Bromantane, Mental work capacity, Asthenia

It seems to be more an adaptogen/actoprotector than a nootropic:

Bromantane

Morozov and Ivanova supposed that benzoylaminoadamantanes, adamantane derivatives of para-chlorophenoxyacetic acid, and other structurally close compounds increase the resistance of the human body with respect to extreme environmental factors rather than act as direct stimulants of the physical working capacity under normal conditions. Nonetheless, several compounds, including N-(2-adamantyl)-N-(para-bromophenyl)-amine (bromantane) (Fig. 1B) and N-(2-adamantyl)-N-(para-chlorobenzoyl) amine (ADK-910, chlodantane) (Fig. 6A), can increase physical performance; accordingly, in the literature, they are regarded as actoprotectors (Morozov and Ivanova, 2001).
Bromantane, upon oral induction, is quickly but not fully absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract into the blood (bioavailability: 42%). It is quickly, and in large quantities, distributed over the tissues and organs, and is slowly eliminated from the body. Bromantane is highly lipophilic, is distributed into the lipids of brain and fat tissue and, finally, is deposited in adipose tissue. The speed of bromantane absorption from the gastrointestinal tract is much higher in women, so the half-life is respectively lower than in men. The time to achievement of the maximum concentration of blood bromantane is 2.75 hours in women, and 4.0 hours in men. The drug is metabolized in the liver, but its elimination occurs mostly through the adrenal gland. Bromantane metabolism is characterized mainly by hydroxylation in the 6th position of the adamantan cycle. All of the determined metabolites can be found in urine, even in two weeks after administration of bromantane (this last fact is important for doping control) (Burnat et al., 1997).
In terms of its pharmacological action, bromantane shows an antiasthenic effect, increases resistance to overheating, and, thereby, contributes to the restoration of working capacity after physical loads. This compound, which possesses combined stimulative and anxiolytic effects, increases physical and intellectual working capacity; inhibits the development of fatigue processes; accelerates restoration under common conditions and conditions complicated by hypoxia and hyperthermia; promotes improvement of mnemic processes (learning); improves the coordination of movements; increases body temperature; has a neuropsychoactivation effect (therefore it is sometimes referred to as a psychomotor stimulator); reveals antagonism to the sedative action of tranquilizers; displays a positive inotropic action without affecting the heart chronotropic function or systemic arterial pressure, and produces immunomodulation activity(Sedov et al., 1999; Morozov et al., 1999).
Whereas bromantane lacks hypno-sedative and neuromuscular relaxant properties, it does not possess any addictive potential. At its application, it does not, unlike typical psychostimulants, develop the phenomena of hyperstimulation.


Download full paper here: http://libgen.org:80...r.2012.20.5.446

Edited by NocicepticBoss, 06 April 2014 - 07:15 PM.