91 replies to this topic

[Adamzski]

What do you think about the pic that I made above? Would you think he looks 5yrs younger? I think he looks like a normal 32yr old after my photoshopping.

Also pics of me from 2yrs ago, I had a bit more weight and think that I looked 5yrs younger than now. It may be about extra baby fat in the right places like the upper cheek area.

[DAMI]

I don't see any pics...

[JohnD60]

What do you think about the pic that I made above? Would you think he looks 5yrs younger? I think he looks like a normal 32yr old after my photoshopping.

Also pics of me from 2yrs ago, I had a bit more weight and think that I looked 5yrs younger than now. It may be about extra baby fat in the right places like the upper cheek area.

yes, he looks 5 years younger in your after. I think the laser age spot removal is a realistic result. But Under eye work is a lot harder in real life than on photoshop (did you just blurr his under eyes?), Maybe or maybe not possible to get that good of a result for this guy's under eyes. Sculptra is not recommended under eyes as it is prone to form bumps in the thin under eye skin.

[Adamzski]

Under eyes is using photoshop patch tool, you outline the area and then shift a clearer area over it and PS blends it in.

Im thinking of doing a lower bleth at the moment, going in through under the lower eyelid and removing part of the fat pads and re positioning the remainder, Im not very concerned about the outcome as it is almost a standard requirement for people in there mid 30's to have this done in Korea. I would really love to sort my eyes out another way but I think it is imposible without surgery...



I hardly sleep and have had this problem for years.. today is quite bad as I really have not slept much at all recently..

but even after 2 months of good sleep in the past, i still have small bags.

And I am also researching, hollow under eyes and just getting fat transfer or juviderm or some filler to lessen the gap to where my under eyes become cheeks.

Edited by Adamzski, 25 September 2012 - 10:31 PM.

[Lovetolearn]

Wow that Noah Kalina video is freaky. Mostly because except for a few minor differences he really could be my twin from about the middle of the video on. Except I don't think I look quite as old as he does and I am 35. Of course, camera and lighting play a big part in that. I think he aged the most in what I would guess is around the 28 to 30 timeframe where his face really started kind of rounding out and he lost that last vestige of childness and his eyes definitely changed from wide eyed wonder to the point where the world looks like it's just beat him down.

On another note, any suggestions on diminishing under eye darkness? I have had it since I was young and it's only gotten a little more pronounced with age. Especially since I have been on the night shift for the last 5 years.

Edited by Lovetolearn, 15 October 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[brainslugged]

I agree that camera and lighting play a huge part of how old he looks. I don't think he actually starts to gain much age until near the end of the video, and even then, it is mostly due to beard. Still, his eyes and nose change, and that is quite apparent.

Not to get off topic, but how do people stabilize the images? I am thinking about doing this, but I don't know how I would stabilize them or if I should be taking them with a certain program, etc.

[nowayout]

Under eyes is using photoshop patch tool, you outline the area and then shift a clearer area over it and PS blends it in.

Im thinking of doing a lower bleth at the moment, going in through under the lower eyelid and removing part of the fat pads and re positioning the remainder, Im not very concerned about the outcome as it is almost a standard requirement for people in there mid 30's to have this done in Korea. I would really love to sort my eyes out another way but I think it is imposible without surgery...



I hardly sleep and have had this problem for years.. today is quite bad as I really have not slept much at all recently..

but even after 2 months of good sleep in the past, i still have small bags.

And I am also researching, hollow under eyes and just getting fat transfer or juviderm or some filler to lessen the gap to where my under eyes become cheeks.

Before surgery I would consider restylane for under the eyes. It is much cheaper than surgery at about $1,000, and the results can be as good or better than blepharoplasty. Under the eyes restylane lasts for about 4 years according to my plastic surgeon, much longer than in the nasolabial folds. It is also reversible if you are unhappy with the result, by injection of an enzyme that dissolves the filler. Of course, you must see someone who is very experienced in this procedure. Search youtube for "cheek augmentation restylane", the first video from a doctor from SF shows the procedure and how nice the results can be.

I am currently considering it, but still a little afraid, because I tend to sleep on my face and I am worried I might mess it up. Also, I see all these Housewives from blablabla shows where some of those people look like monsters from fillers. You really need a very trustworthy doctor.

Edited by viveutvivas, 22 October 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[JohnD60]

Not to get off topic, but how do people stabilize the images? I am thinking about doing this, but I don't know how I would stabilize them or if I should be taking them with a certain program, etc.

Not sure what you mean by 'stabilize"
I just assumed he placed a camera, with a date stamp and timer, on a shelf at a fixed height, and stood a fixed distance and position away. Then ported the pictures to some video editing software.

[Dmitri]

I find the bone structure theory unconvincing. If it were true, face lifts wouldn't work.

Face lifts won't make 40 year old look like 20.

Depends on the 40 year old, and depends on the 20 year old. Mario Lopez might be an example - he probably had some work done (no proof, just a hunch).

In any case, the shortcomings of face lifts have everything to do with soft tissue and almost nothing to do with bone structure changes. If only it were that easy, since bone structure is relatively easy to modify.

I'm going to have to agree with hivemind, face lifts remove wrinkles and sagging skin, but often times it doesn't really make the person look 20 years younger.

I'll use this soap opera actress from Mexico as an example. Lucia Mendez is 57 and has had work done, she has no wrinkles or sagging skin but I don't think anyone would say she's younger than 40. There are also countless of Hollywood actresses over 40 who have had work done and none of them look like they're in their 20s.

[Adamzski]

Under eyes is using photoshop patch tool, you outline the area and then shift a clearer area over it and PS blends it in.

Im thinking of doing a lower bleth at the moment, going in through under the lower eyelid and removing part of the fat pads and re positioning the remainder, Im not very concerned about the outcome as it is almost a standard requirement for people in there mid 30's to have this done in Korea. I would really love to sort my eyes out another way but I think it is imposible without surgery...



I hardly sleep and have had this problem for years.. today is quite bad as I really have not slept much at all recently..

but even after 2 months of good sleep in the past, i still have small bags.

And I am also researching, hollow under eyes and just getting fat transfer or juviderm or some filler to lessen the gap to where my under eyes become cheeks.

Before surgery I would consider restylane for under the eyes. It is much cheaper than surgery at about $1,000, and the results can be as good or better than blepharoplasty. Under the eyes restylane lasts for about 4 years according to my plastic surgeon, much longer than in the nasolabial folds. It is also reversible if you are unhappy with the result, by injection of an enzyme that dissolves the filler. Of course, you must see someone who is very experienced in this procedure. Search youtube for "cheek augmentation restylane", the first video from a doctor from SF shows the procedure and how nice the results can be.

I am currently considering it, but still a little afraid, because I tend to sleep on my face and I am worried I might mess it up. Also, I see all these Housewives from blablabla shows where some of those people look like monsters from fillers. You really need a very trustworthy doctor.

Hi I had a few hits of botox two weeks ago in my crows feet and about 15mm under my eye bags and it has helped a lot. A bit of filler and it will be fine now hopefully.
I read online that botox is supposed not to work under eyes but it has made a 50% improvment for me and I think it comes down to the skill and knowledge of your injector when you are putting it in non standard places.

Yes surgery is scary... It should always be a last resort.

I did not think that the restalyne can migrate after the initial settling in period but this is something new for me to look at thanks.

Those housewives do look like a joke... I asked my injector to go easy on the crows feet, they are almost eliminated but when I smile there is stil slight lines there and that is what I want

[Adamzski]

I find the bone structure theory unconvincing. If it were true, face lifts wouldn't work.

Face lifts won't make 40 year old look like 20.

Depends on the 40 year old, and depends on the 20 year old. Mario Lopez might be an example - he probably had some work done (no proof, just a hunch).

In any case, the shortcomings of face lifts have everything to do with soft tissue and almost nothing to do with bone structure changes. If only it were that easy, since bone structure is relatively easy to modify.

I'm going to have to agree with hivemind, face lifts remove wrinkles and sagging skin, but often times it doesn't really make the person look 20 years younger.

I'll use this soap opera actress from Mexico as an example. Lucia Mendez is 57 and has had work done, she has no wrinkles or sagging skin but I don't think anyone would say she's younger than 40. There are also countless of Hollywood actresses over 40 who have had work done and none of them look like they're in their 20s.

Yep thats the look I hate... She looks horrid.. but with a softer look she would probably be very attractive still.
http://www.lazygirls...l2012_4_6Fpq6fw Looked really beautiful in 2007 but now that she has pumped a few litres of HA into her face she just looks strange

[Adamzski]

Elle at 47 http://www.people.co...0578071,00.html there is a video halfway down the page, it would take to much work to photoshop that video..
You can see some of that Aussie sun damage on her skin but she looks great, also its obvious that there is a bit of filler in her nasolabial folds and botox for sure but its not overdone

[Maecenas]

Here is some scientific information about bone structure of face and aging http://www.livescien...<!--NoParse1-->
Also interesting how anybody can explain this http://www.whoateall...ar-too-old.html

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Edited by Maecenas, 13 November 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[JohnD60]

Also interesting how anybody can explain this http://www.whoateall...ar-too-old.html

A. After an hour running around one tends to get dehydrated, and looks older than one normally does.
B. They are professional athletes, I just presume most of them are using PEDs. Some PEDs, when used in large amounts, can cause premature male pattern baldness, and probably a score of other 'aging' responses.
C. Some people just lie about their ages.
D. English people just look older than Americans

Edited by JohnD60, 14 November 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[tommix]

The main things what makes people look old is muscle tone and fats in face. saggy face looks older no matter of skin condition. And i noticed that people eyes goes more inside in skull the older you get. this maybe also makes people look older, young people have eyes not so deep in skull.
I also think that our life experiences makes us look alder because our faces is from muscles and muscles tend to get stronger if we use the same expression very often our faces will reflect that emotion, older people looks more depressed and serious, also more life experienced. So happy people looks younger because of this We like automatically (subconsciously) associate older people with sadder, serious face, so when we see happy face (not smile or just emotion but happy face when there is no emotion) it looks more youthful.

And this guy have a SEVERE skin damage from sun you can see the spots.

Anyways this guy ROCKS!! super work he's done!

Edited by tommix, 16 November 2012 - 08:27 PM.

[JBForrester]

Gaining weight in the face is probably the largest determiner of facial aging in my opinion. A thin face and neck will not sag until much later in life than one bloated with fat.

By the way, you can have a fat face even with a low BMI, if you are skinny fat. Even skinny people need a certain amount of exercise to maintain the structure of their face.

Look at celevrities who age well and ones who do not. The latter group is invariantly the ones who got thick around the gills. I think the same thing is what happened with this kid.

Yo-yo weight, yes. Simply a fat face? No.

Actually, if you look at celebs, the ones with baby fat in their face age better than those who have almost no fat in their face.

Facial fat atrophy happens when we get older, and without the fat, the skin barrier factor decreases and we are more prone to a poor immune system. The skin, being the biggest organ, is the first thing to protect the immune system from outside intruders. And it's the first thing our body sacrifices if we don't maintain our health.

Those who maintain the fat in their face through proper nutrition, their collagen through exercise, and their elasticity through sun protection will age well indeed.

[Adamzski]

, their collagen through exercise,

Is it proven that exercise increases or maintains collagen?

[JBForrester]

Yes. Transiently, but I don't find it surprising that many people who exercise vigorously and regularly look younger than their non-athletic peers. After a certain age, exercise reduces collagen degradation in aging. And if it's not collagen that makes athletes look younger facially, then I don't know what it is.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10908411

http://jp.physoc.org...521/1/299.short

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10634375 - see conclusion 1)

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10978681

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10605611

[JohnD60]

There is a saying among plastic surgeons that goes something like... thin thighs equals sunken under eyes. Meaning that people (usually women) that exercise a lot and and have low body fat have lost almost all of their under eye fat, and their faces look older than they would look if they did not exercise as much. (aside: I'll take the sunken eyes with thin thighs over the converse any day). I have made similar observations on 40ish women, and believe that, regardless of how many studies you reference to the contray.

[JBForrester]

... thin thighs equals sunken under eyes. Meaning that people (usually women) that exercise a lot and and have low body fat have lost almost all of their under eye fat, and their faces look older than they would look if they did not exercise as much...I have made similar observations on 40ish women, and believe that, regardless of how many studies you reference to the contray.

What do you mean by exercise "a lot"? Yes, over-exercising can do the opposite, i.e. cause stress within the body, so both the stress and lack of body fat/estrogens can cause the under eye bags. Many women over 40 do this simply because they are the ones who want to keep away the added pounds that result with older age. Not to mention that also the fat in the face becomes slowly atrophied after the age of 30. I'm 26 and from the time I was 18, I had a very voluptuous body but I exercised 30-45 minutes at least 4 x per week. I never had hollows under my eyes. It wasn't until this year that they have all of a sudden developed, only because of chronic stress this year, not eating enough, and using too much retin-a there. Correlation does not imply causation; just because women who have sunken eyes exercise, doesn't mean that the exercise caused the sunken eyes. It could be because of stress that comes with age, thus they exercise to reduce stress. It could be because they don't eat enough, thus they have a lack of nutrients in their body, or perhaps they have an eating disorder (which can happen among many women after 30 who have struggled with BBD their whole lives). Exercise is important no matter what, and it's pretty iffy to say that exercise causes sunken under eyes (not to mention hearing it from Plastic Surgeons).

[JohnD60]

I intended the term 'a lot of exercise' to mean someone that exercises 4+ times a week and maintains a body fat percentage between 8% and 16% (so about 25% of women in their 40s), not to mean some hard core endurance fanatic with a 5% body fat.

Correlation does not imply causation; just because women who have sunken eyes exercise, doesn't mean that the exercise caused the sunken eyes.

In one case or a dozen cases, correlation does not imply causation, but if one has seen the correlation hundreds of times among a broad population, one can reasonably conclude causation (that is how we know smoking causes cancer). One only needs to look at enough College reunion photos of women in their 40s, in a far greater correlation than could be ascribed to chance, the thinner women have under eye hollows, the heavy women do not.

[JBForrester]

Most women who exercise 4xper week, 30-45 min per session who eat a regular diet (2000 calories) do not and will not have an 8-16% body fat percentage. That is impossible with that type of diet, let alone with the physiological makeup of women. We generally have more subcutanous fat than our male counterparts, thus, a healthy fat percentage would be around 20-23%. Too little body fat (anything below 14%) can wreak havoc on a woman's hormonal balance and menstrual cycle. For men, anything over 25% is considered overweight. For women, anything over 32%. However, if they are eating something more like 1200-1500 calories, women could possibly shrink down to 16% body fat. Skinny women you meet at a college reunion, considering you don't take a tally of them exercising, you cannot contribute exercise to their under eye hollows. Their skinniness, yes - if you want to do the correlation = causation game, but not exercise. And if you do want to play that game, I can tell you now that I know many women who are well past 40 whom I've seen exercise, and they do not have undereye hollows by no means. So those women you know, perhaps they just don't eat their pasta. Unfortunately, many women that take that route don't understand that one of the only sources of ceramides, a key lipid molecule needed for the skin barrier function, comes from wheat and that undereating causes deficiencies in key nutrients for women.

[spirilla01]

At least from my experience, if I look at the females at my gym, those who exercise frequently do look quite a bit older than the new members. Especially the ones in their 30s or 40s, sorry, but from what i see, they look considerably older.
As for Elle, I honestly don´t think she looks much younger than her age.

At least from my experience, if I look at the females at my gym, those who exercise frequently do look quite a bit older than the new members. Especially the ones in their 30s or 40s, sorry, but from what i see, they look considerably older.
As for Elle, I honestly don´t think she looks much younger than her age.

[JBForrester]

Unless you actually ask them their age, then you cannot make the statement that they look "considerably older". And again, unless you take in their diet habits, you cannot make that correlation. I can make a statement completely opposing yours based on my anecdotal observations as well. But I know how these people eat, too.

Marathoners look ridiculously old for their age. I agree with that. But women who exercise 30 minutes minimum, 4 x week. Sorry, but come on. I am really curious about how you posters exercise.

[Adamzski]

I agree that the fitness fanatics look older than their age. The joggers and bike heads, they look 5 years older most of the time.

I think it is about just having a bit more body fat, and they say that when you get a fat transfer it rejuvenates your skin some. Maybe this fat is either just acting like fillers or is nourishing the skin from bellow.

The diets these guys are on as well could be part of it, along with there extra hormones the produce from exercising, a bit more testosterone leathering up these women's skin maybe or changing the facial structure.

[Adamzski]

and JBForrester, I think that yeah it could be there diets, not the amount of calories but the things that they think are unhealthy, lack of chocolate, pasta, cream and others.

[creation6is]

This makes sense to me

http://rjpembroak.blogspot.com/

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[JBForrester]

This makes sense to me

http://rjpembroak.blogspot.com/

Haha! I love this comparison. I've seen it before, and there is some truth to it. After all, most ceramides, which are crucial for the skin barrier function, can only be found in wheats. At the same time, Nigella Lawson is a complete heliophobe, thus her flawless complexion:



At the same time, I still think moderate exercise is crucial for good health.

[mustardseed41]

This makes sense to me

http://rjpembroak.blogspot.com/

Haha! I love this comparison. I've seen it before, and there is some truth to it. After all, most ceramides, which are crucial for the skin barrier function, can only be found in wheats. At the same time, Nigella Lawson is a complete heliophobe, thus her flawless complexion:



At the same time, I still think moderate exercise is crucial for good health.

Complete heliophobe???? My god her face is showing. Heck at least wear sunglasses....lol

[DAMI]

IMO photoaging is the least of it. You get 18 year olds with lots of freckling and forehead lines who still look 18. What makes people look older is mainly the sagging around the jowls, the chin/neck area, and under the eyes, and not so much the superficial freckling and wrinkling. The sagging can be avoided for the most part by keeping the face lean.

Yeah, but isn't the sagging ultimately caused by the skin loosing its firmness due to sun damage?

Edited by DAI, 07 December 2012 - 04:21 PM.