53 replies to this topic

[renfr]

ah you got me!...try this, $12.56 for a milligram scale http://www.ebay.com/...=item2c690f0ed4

Thanks!

I took some 4 aco dmt fumarate last night, I don't know what the dose was, I took something like 1/5 of a microscoop which is I guess maybe less than 10mg therefore I didn't really feel any hallucinogenic effect.
t + 40mins
It started with an enhanced perception of colours, I was more conscious of colours, instead of looking at a person or a thing in its shape I was rather seeing his/its colours, this made colours very bright and vivid.
Sounds were much more sharp, I could litteraly feel the music coming out of my stereo as if it was a material thing.
t + 1h
That effect continued but became less apparent to let another effect come.
It's as if I had a shot of morphine, I could move very easily and pain was extremely reduced, it felt really weird and enhanced the trippy effect.
I also felt extremely disorientated but the effect was likely inhibited as I took 2 cups of coffee several hours before (knowing my very slow metabolism of caffeine, I am pretty sure that caffeine did intervene with the trip).
Along with that I had brain chills (or brain tremors), as if something was occuring inside my brain but now that I think about it it was probably the analgesic effect.
t +2h and t +3h
Effects on colours subsided however the analgesic effect was still as strong as before, I had to go to bed but before that I finished reading my newspaper and it felt easier to read, it was smoothier and I guess information retention was much better than control.
When I went to sleep, sleep onset came as fast as usual (5 mins) however during the first 30 mins of sleep I woke up two times in a row after having crazy dreams which were likely induced by 4 aco dmt.
I don't remember them at all but when I woke up after having them, I had during some seconds some vision when eyes were closed, I think it was characters showing up but it was really mild and I don't think it can be considered to be real visuals.

Apart from that I slept normally and woke up normally.
However I still feel a very very mild consciousness of colours in my environment which is rather great.

I hope I can get a mg scale or mix that up in alcohol so that I can take higher doses, the synesthesia effect reported by some users could be really interesting when learning.

Edited by renfr, 23 November 2012 - 05:47 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Interesting trip report I had a dreaming experience on 4 aco dmt but mine was a little different. I took a bit larger dose (roughly 2+ of the microscoops, i never take the time to weigh out my pscilocin doses) so maybe 35 mg. I felt a very strong pull to the earth and within maybe 15 minutes of laying down I fell into a state between dreaming and wake, getting extremely vivid closed eye visions.

I have noticed that 4-aco-dmt can make me feel very tired, my friend could not stop yawning. Does anyone know the precise reason for this effect?

Regarding synesthesia you have an interesting point. I have experienced it, but only through music with closed eye visuals being created to match sounds. This is pretty cool, but not quite as good as seeing colors coming from perhaps a keyboard or guitar I am playing.

I am partially color blind, and I question if my own colorblindness has an effect on my open eye visuals. I have performed poorly on the Ishihara colored number test in the past and some people have said that using pscilocybin and lsd have increased their performance on color blind tests..I took the test here www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp and noticed slight improvement maybe since having ingested hallucinogens. I will try again on 4-aco and see if it becomes easier

[golden1]

I've taken an unknown amount and I had to constantly shift focus or the center of my vision would start peeling apart into morphing insanity and I had 0 depth perception it was like looking at the world like a 2d drawing or a flattened popup book. Probably could have broken through on it.. if i was able to be calm at the time. But yeah its actually pretty good for focus and motivation at low doses or high i guess.

[renfr]

Interesting trip report I had a dreaming experience on 4 aco dmt but mine was a little different. I took a bit larger dose (roughly 2+ of the microscoops, i never take the time to weigh out my pscilocin doses) so maybe 35 mg. I felt a very strong pull to the earth and within maybe 15 minutes of laying down I fell into a state between dreaming and wake, getting extremely vivid closed eye visions.

I have noticed that 4-aco-dmt can make me feel very tired, my friend could not stop yawning. Does anyone know the precise reason for this effect?

Regarding synesthesia you have an interesting point. I have experienced it, but only through music with closed eye visuals being created to match sounds. This is pretty cool, but not quite as good as seeing colors coming from perhaps a keyboard or guitar I am playing.

I am partially color blind, and I question if my own colorblindness has an effect on my open eye visuals. I have performed poorly on the Ishihara colored number test in the past and some people have said that using pscilocybin and lsd have increased their performance on color blind tests..I took the test here www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/Ishihara.asp and noticed slight improvement maybe since having ingested hallucinogens. I will try again on 4-aco and see if it becomes easier

I haven't tried such doses yet. But after trying other small doses I don't think there can be cognitive improvement from 4 aco dmt at least not during the trip. I feel too much disorientated and sounds are strongly inhibited (I could hardly listen to my friend whispering) but at the same time there's a strong boost of energy not like the sleepiness you have.

Are the new resulsts you got on the Ishihara test permanent? Even after ceasing psychedelics for a long time?
I don't have any color blindness but I feel much more better when colours are vivid and bright. (I try to make my environment as colorful as possible as to avoid depression and anxiety)

Coming back on the cognitive improvement side, I would like to note that during the trip I had cognitive impairment.
I had a lot of trouble making sentences and when I was discussing with friends I could hardly talk to them properly however I didn't have cognitive impairment when looking for specific words or concepts.
That thing lasted even after the trip the first day but now I think it's gone.
What was the cause? 5HT2A agonism or rather extreme vasoconstriction?

[golden1]

most psychedelics will at some dose or point impair your shortterm memory/communication ability/etc, so I would think that is from 5ht2a agonism. I only get impairment on rather large doses of psychedelics though, so it may depend on the person and probably your headset going into the trip depending on day/mood/awakeness/whatever.

I used to take 5mg as a stimulant and for creative help and it worked better than any common nootropic for my purposes

[renfr]

I think that bacopa may reverse tolerance (and along with that cognitive impairment).
Yesterday I decided to take bacopa (500mg Himalaya) and later in the day I took an higher dose of 4 aco dmt (16mg).
Nothing was felt, no colour enhancement, no visuals, nothing at all (not even the analgesic effect).
Sometimes I had pressures on my brain and a mild stimulant effect.
Note : I also took caffeine which has probably enhanced serotonin antagonism (however it's not the culprit as my first 4 aco dmt time was done with some caffeine and it suceeded).
I heard a guy saying that bacopa inhibits LSD experience, 4 aco dmt and LSD both agonize 5HT2A therefore bacopa may reverse tolerance through serotonin antagonism.
However I didn't find any study saying it antagonizes 5HT2A but many studies say it antagonizes 5HT2C which is agonized by DMT (that may be why some people say 4 aco dmt feels more like DMT than psilocin).
I also wonder if Bacopa could be used against drug induced HPPD, it seems pretty strong in blocking visuals.

Btw concerning conservation, it mixes very well with alcohol. I threw it in 25% anisette and the taste is very sweet and pleasant.
This concerns 4 aco dmt fumarate, freebase is I guess very unstable.

Edited by renfr, 25 November 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[golden1]

I think that bacopa may reverse tolerance (and along with that cognitive impairment).
Yesterday I decided to take bacopa (500mg Himalaya) and later in the day I took an higher dose of 4 aco dmt (16mg).
Nothing was felt, no colour enhancement, no visuals, nothing at all (not even the analgesic effect).
Sometimes I had pressures on my brain and a mild stimulant effect.
Note : I also took caffeine which has probably enhanced serotonin antagonism (however it's not the culprit as my first 4 aco dmt time was done with some caffeine and it suceeded).
I heard a guy saying that bacopa inhibits LSD experience, 4 aco dmt and LSD both agonize 5HT2A therefore bacopa may reverse tolerance through serotonin antagonism.
However I didn't find any study saying it antagonizes 5HT2A but many studies say it antagonizes 5HT2C which is agonized by DMT (that may be why some people say 4 aco dmt feels more like DMT than psilocin).
I also wonder if Bacopa could be used against drug induced HPPD, it seems pretty strong in blocking visuals.

Btw concerning conservation, it mixes very well with alcohol. I threw it in 25% anisette and the taste is very sweet and pleasant.
This concerns 4 aco dmt fumarate, freebase is I guess very unstable.

yes 4-aco-dmt feels a lot like dmt at the first stage, I believe it has properties of its own which more closely resemble dmt before it is metabolized to 4-ho-dmt(psilocin). I am certain I feel two distinctly different phases when doing 4-aco-dmt for me at least. I've gone as high as 100mg by the way and it is amazing(not saying thats near safe psychologically for everyone, but incredibly amazing if you can relax into it). 4-ho-met is even better, my favorite psychedelic apart from lsd by far. Aniracetam also seems for me to reverse tolerance(probably due to its 5ht2a/2c modulation) and if taken on it reduces visuals depending on the dose. Bacopa felt very benzo-ish and/or serotonin releasing(increased gaba transmission or extra competing serotonin will lower subjective effects of psychedelics).

[Raza]

Yeah, having more serotonin in the synapse reduces psychedelic effects. MDMA and SSRIs do this, and since Bacopa increases serotonin I'd expect a similar effect from it.

[Adaptogen]

yes 4-aco-dmt feels a lot like dmt at the first stage, I believe it has properties of its own which more closely resemble dmt before it is metabolized to 4-ho-dmt(psilocin). I am certain I feel two distinctly different phases when doing 4-aco-dmt for me at least. I've gone as high as 100mg by the way and it is amazing(not saying thats near safe psychologically for everyone, but incredibly amazing if you can relax into it). 4-ho-met is even better, my favorite psychedelic apart from lsd by far. Aniracetam also seems for me to reverse tolerance(probably due to its 5ht2a/2c modulation) and if taken on it reduces visuals depending on the dose. Bacopa felt very benzo-ish and/or serotonin releasing(increased gaba transmission or extra competing serotonin will lower subjective effects of psychedelics).

interesting. are you implying that all -racetams would inhibit the hallucinogenic effects of the psilocin?

[golden1]

aniracetam mostly, the others change them semirandomly in my experience but aniracetam gets rid of most of the visuals with enough
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1141283

The anxiolytic effects were completely blocked by haloperidol and nearly completely by mecamylamine or ketanserin, suggesting an involvement of nicotinic acetylcholine, 5-HT2A and dopamine D2 receptors in the anxiolytic mechanism.

[renfr]

My conclusion on 4 aco dmt as a nootropic :
I tried yesterday a rather bigger dose than I used to, I don't know the dose, I eyeballed it but it was probably something like 15-20mg.
That experience was really great, I did not hallucinate (however when I closed my eyes I could see blue and red sine wave moving all over my vision) and my effects were mostly "spiritual".
I experienced ego death, I was totally spaced out, I wasn't human, I felt like I was an extraterrestrial entity watching people from space.
I could see them doing their daily stuff, I could see how they function, how their society functioned, how they evolved and so on...
I was always thinking, thinking very very deeply, thinking about the mysteries of the world, but my thinking was also very active, I was changing subjects all the time.
My senses were strongly inhibited, something like hearing loss, I was hardly feeling my body, food had no taste.
I was thinking I reached a state where I could understand everything, understand everything about humanity and it seems to really change the way I see the world and my own life.
The comedown was very slight, the drug lasted 8 hours.
Now on the side effects, during the trip I had strong vasodilation (even tough during this cold winter it's quite a good thing), slight hyperthermia and dry mouth which made me drink a lot.
During the comedown I could feel the adrenaline rush (4 aco dmt has noradrenergic properties), was a bit scary but I could perfectly handle it.
Then the day after (today), my memory felt very weak, I had a very weak short term memory (probably serotonin downregulation), I took 500mg bacopa and it seems to solve the problem.

I also tried low dosages, I don't see anything beneficial with them, in fact studying when you take 4 aco dmt is quite difficult as your mind is always trying to think to several things at a time and in the end you have a hard time learning and focusing on a task.
So I don't think it can be used while studying, however it seems beneficial as it help a lot with motivation, 4 aco dmt enhanced my joy of living and motivated me even more in doing what I want to do.
It's definitely a nootropic to me but certainly not beneficial when studying.
I plan on doing 4 aco dmt once a week with about the same dose and see if benefits cumulate.

On the risk of addiction, well there's virtually no possible addiction as the experience makes you totally spaced out and you're totally unable to do daily tasks and act normally. Hearing is strongly inhibited and ego death makes you kinda "unresponsive" and unwilling to talk.

[NeuroNootropic]

OP, you should post this on bluelight.ru, they are more into psychedelics than this forum I think.

[Adaptogen]

My conclusion on 4 aco dmt as a nootropic :
I tried yesterday a rather bigger dose than I used to, I don't know the dose, I eyeballed it but it was probably something like 15-20mg.
That experience was really great, I did not hallucinate (however when I closed my eyes I could see blue and red sine wave moving all over my vision) and my effects were mostly "spiritual".
I experienced ego death, I was totally spaced out, I wasn't human, I felt like I was an extraterrestrial entity watching people from space.
I could see them doing their daily stuff, I could see how they function, how their society functioned, how they evolved and so on...
I was always thinking, thinking very very deeply, thinking about the mysteries of the world, but my thinking was also very active, I was changing subjects all the time.
My senses were strongly inhibited, something like hearing loss, I was hardly feeling my body, food had no taste.
I was thinking I reached a state where I could understand everything, understand everything about humanity and it seems to really change the way I see the world and my own life.
The comedown was very slight, the drug lasted 8 hours.
Now on the side effects, during the trip I had strong vasodilation (even tough during this cold winter it's quite a good thing), slight hyperthermia and dry mouth which made me drink a lot.
During the comedown I could feel the adrenaline rush (4 aco dmt has noradrenergic properties), was a bit scary but I could perfectly handle it.
Then the day after (today), my memory felt very weak, I had a very weak short term memory (probably serotonin downregulation), I took 500mg bacopa and it seems to solve the problem.

I also tried low dosages, I don't see anything beneficial with them, in fact studying when you take 4 aco dmt is quite difficult as your mind is always trying to think to several things at a time and in the end you have a hard time learning and focusing on a task.
So I don't think it can be used while studying, however it seems beneficial as it help a lot with motivation, 4 aco dmt enhanced my joy of living and motivated me even more in doing what I want to do.
It's definitely a nootropic to me but certainly not beneficial when studying.
I plan on doing 4 aco dmt once a week with about the same dose and see if benefits cumulate.

On the risk of addiction, well there's virtually no possible addiction as the experience makes you totally spaced out and you're totally unable to do daily tasks and act normally. Hearing is strongly inhibited and ego death makes you kinda "unresponsive" and unwilling to talk.

Glad to hear you had such an enlightening experience. 4-aco-dmt has been very eye opening to me as well, huge for personal growth. i have been taking it fairly often (weekly/biweekly) and have noticed nothing but good things. Usually, the day after an intense trip i do not feel like talking as much as usual, perhaps because of the magnitude of recent experiences

Interesting that it is causing you hearing problems. I have experienced a huge range of effects, but mostly good. Lately I have noted significant increases in my hearing/smells when on it, like my senses are enhanced 10-fold.

Have you tried dosing with a racetam simultaneously? 4.8 grams piracetam, 50mg noopept, .5 grams choline citrate, 20mg 4-aco-dmt, and sometimes a handful of cacao.

Thus far, each experience has been amazing. I feel significantly more motivated, elevated mood, I can even play instruments better during the trip and in the following days.

I don't know if you experiment with other psychoactive drugs as well, but marijuana is a great potentiator, greatly enhancing the effects of the drug and my mood. Smoking during the comedown of 4-aco-dmt is probably one of the most enjoyable experiences i've had

I find binaural beats enjoyable and relaxing on a trip, but i never listen to them on other occasions. Rather than with most music, good binaural beats pass through me, gently touching me with their warmth (if the song is right)

This is one i enjoy, although the unedited version i listen to on spotify is 30 minutes long...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwgbRsPYYbM

Edited by Adaptogen, 16 December 2012 - 03:38 AM.

[Adaptogen]

OP, you should post this on bluelight.ru, they are more into psychedelics than this forum I think.

I like the intelligence of this forum and i'm sure there are plenty of people here who utilize psychedelics.

perhaps you should try some 4-aco-dmt. it will help your depression

Edited by Adaptogen, 16 December 2012 - 03:46 AM.

[NeuroNootropic]

Does 4-aco-dmt increase motivation and ambition or does it just improve mood?

[Adaptogen]

For me it had a large effect on motivation and ambition. But it is important that it is used the right way and with the right mindset.
For me, it brought about realizations and understandings that I had not even imagined before.

What I have found is this: everything you do on the drug can seem very profound. You should be selective in what you witness, follow where your mind leads you, and read things that are of substantial significance to you. By using this substance, you can create strengthen your interest in anything, as long as it is something you truly find interest in.

I will tell you a few facts about my use: I never flossed prior to using it, I did not eat as healthy, I was less interested in learning, I was less musical and I was less happy.

Taking it with the right mindset and with the right contemplation is hugely important. Something I have noticed is that it gives me extreme anxiety at some points, the feeling of hummingbirds in my chest, but it is strengthening me. I become temporarily weathered and then adapt, becoming more resistant to outside influence and more understanding of my own feelings.



Strong, forced meditation would be the closest way I could describe some of the effects it can have.

Edited by Adaptogen, 16 December 2012 - 07:28 AM.

[NeuroNootropic]

That's a really interesting effect it had on you. I really hope in the future psychedelics will be used in the treatment of depression.

[Adaptogen]

does anyone have any knowledge of reagent kits, or a means of testing the purity of 4-aco-dmt?

I ordered from a chinese vendor, and even though I have taken two small allergy tests, I am pretty nervous about taking a larger dose.
Last allergy test i had a panic attack and ended up gulping a large sip of valerian tincture to put me to sleep

[Adaptogen]

http://www.bluelight...l=1#post8562340

4-aco-dmt seems to turn light green on the marquis reagent test.

Would this test work, or would i need a more extensive reagent test? http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/B001VSHYG8

[Daruman]

A reagent test is used to confirm what you actually get, and to make sure it isn't adulterated with a similar drug.

A reagent test will not tell you anything about purity or if unwanted lab chemicals (or heavy metals) are present.

With the small doses of 4-AcO-DMT, I wouldn't worry. Compared to the large doses (grams vs mgs) of piracitam people take from Chinese companies it seems insignificant.

[Adaptogen]

Well, i actually did just want to make sure this was actually 4-aco-dmt and not another research chemical that might have similar effects. It's all white powder from china..I feel like it would be easy for it to be switched with 5-meo-mipt, or anything really.

My first two doses have had minimal effects, not identical to my previous experience with the drug, so I am hesitant to take more.

Edited by Adaptogen, 30 January 2013 - 07:02 AM.

[leftside]

My first two doses have had minimal effects, not identical to my previous experience with the drug, so I am hesitant to take more.

Get rid of it and go back to your original supplier. This one should be quite consistent in its effects. It's actually quite different to 5-meo-mipt.

As a side note I also had very similar experiences to you on 4-aco-dmt. I'm now done with it though and also all other 2C-* type chemicals. I got what I wanted out of them and don't want to "push" it anymore.

[Adaptogen]

My first two doses were small, allergy test amounts.

I would rather spend $15 on a reagent kit than throw away 2 grams of possibly 4-aco-dmt. I am just trying to figure out which reagent kit to buy.

[Raza]

I would just try it and have a potent anxiolytic ready. At the doses you take with this, impurities aren't nearly as much an issue as for other stuff we import... and there is really very little reason for a vendor to send you an active psychedelic that isn't what you ordered.

If you want, you can mail me a dose and I'll try it for you.