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Everything you wanted to know about Lion's Mane


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#1 curiouskid23

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:15 PM


Forums waste your time. All you have to do is browse through the forums on longecity to see that there are a lot of people asking questions that have been answered elsewhere. But even worse, the state of the discussion never moves past answering basic questions over and over. The only way I see around this problem is to stop using forums as the only way we communicate. We need to move toward collaboratively edited documents (like wikis or google docs).

For example, my friend and I compiled everything that's been said on one particular nootropic (Lion's Mane) to try to prevent newbie's from asking the same questions over and over. This document is far from perfect, but it's definitely better than trying to start from scratch by using google and browsing all the topics on this site.

If you agree with me, there are plenty of ways you can help. I'd love it if anyone would want to help me refine the Lion's Mane document or help me create new documents for other supplements. Together we can make sense of all the misinformation and poorly organized information on the internet. Let's take citizen science to a whole new level.

Here's the document: (You may have to sign up for a workflowy account)

Also, if you don't then people at Reddit are going to try to "kick [your] ass upside and out"
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#2 curiouskid23

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:36 PM

Also, there have been previous initiatives on Longecity to move away from forums:

http://www.longecity...vity-enhancers/

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#3 renfr

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:06 PM

Good work. Well I agree with that that it's needed so that when newbies come around here they got a list of what to try and every single report about it.
I second that!

Edited by renfr, 24 September 2012 - 10:06 PM.


#4 CIMN

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 02:05 AM

I think the green on black is hard to read, perhaps, blue and white would be better.

#5 LeonardElijah

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:27 PM

Nice effort.

The best place to buy Lion's Mane right now is Mushroom Harvest. The whole powder contains polypeptides, which are absent from pills isolated for the NGF stimulation.

The peptides are really important. To test them, go out drinking and wake up with a hangover. In the morning drink a big glass of water with two tablespoons of whole powder Lion's Mane. In 30 minutes it's as if your peripheral nervous system has stabilized. No wobblyness. No deliurium tremens shaky hands. No loss of coordination. Nerves of steel. The only way to notice the effect on the nervous system is to drink. Lion's Mane really should be a part of any hangover remedy concoction.

Edited by LeonardElijah, 29 September 2012 - 10:29 PM.

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#6 evo

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:46 PM

As a programmer, developer, and designer I have a vision for what might work better...

Ideally a wiki-like system which allows for individual hub pages that cultivate content on each substance. Aside from a basic summary (abstract), chemical characteristics, interactions, mechanisms of action, pathways, etc. references would be sorted and classified accordingly based on their contents (positive outcomes, contraindications, etc.) and discussion would revolve around a single centralized thread in which new information corroborated by multiple sources could be added to the core information segment.

Also important would be an easy way to post & answer questions (standard web Q&A format) which could easily be transitioned to the discussion forum if further consideration is warranted.

Lastly a source list would be great, ideally with any available HPLC data to help organize suppliers by quality and transparency.

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?

Edited by lmlj, 29 September 2012 - 10:47 PM.

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#7 renfr

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:03 PM

As a programmer, developer, and designer I have a vision for what might work better...

Ideally a wiki-like system which allows for individual hub pages that cultivate content on each substance. Aside from a basic summary (abstract), chemical characteristics, interactions, mechanisms of action, pathways, etc. references would be sorted and classified accordingly based on their contents (positive outcomes, contraindications, etc.) and discussion would revolve around a single centralized thread in which new information corroborated by multiple sources could be added to the core information segment.

Also important would be an easy way to post & answer questions (standard web Q&A format) which could easily be transitioned to the discussion forum if further consideration is warranted.

Lastly a source list would be great, ideally with any available HPLC data to help organize suppliers by quality and transparency.

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?

I own a wiki (mediawiki powered) and I'd agree with that, as for the Q&A I'm sure there is a mediawiki extension out there that can do that.
That would be very useful and help a lot of people.
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#8 curiouskid23

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:00 PM

Update: I made a map for B Vitamins (though it's only partially complete at this point, the parts on Sulbutiamine and B12 are pretty good)

As a programmer, developer, and designer I have a vision for what might work better...

Ideally a wiki-like system which allows for individual hub pages that cultivate content on each substance. Aside from a basic summary (abstract), chemical characteristics, interactions, mechanisms of action, pathways, etc. references would be sorted and classified accordingly based on their contents (positive outcomes, contraindications, etc.) and discussion would revolve around a single centralized thread in which new information corroborated by multiple sources could be added to the core information segment.

Also important would be an easy way to post & answer questions (standard web Q&A format) which could easily be transitioned to the discussion forum if further consideration is warranted.

Lastly a source list would be great, ideally with any available HPLC data to help organize suppliers by quality and transparency.

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?




Before we try to invent something completely new, we need to coordinate ourselves to build this software. I've never done any open source projects, but I don't think a blog or a forum will work. I imagine a collective workflow document or a wiki with some extensions would work best. After we do this, the ongoing tasks will be:

A: Designing new software (talking about the UI, the karma system, what constitutes good evidence)
I've also thought about designing a new piece of software. I'd love to compare visions and take our best ideas and combine them. I created a workflowy doc to facilitate comparisons between visions, though at this point it's pretty unedited and incomprehensible.

B: Recruiting developers.

C: Creating maps to be transferred to the new software once it's created. (Like the one I have on Lion's Mane and Sulbutiamine) (these maps should inform "step A"

D: Recruiting people to help make the maps from Longecity + Reddit + Universities (I've already recruited 4 people in the past week to help me make more nootropics maps)

#9 twerp

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:56 AM

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?


A wiki like this is a fantastic idea. I'm definitely interested and I've got some time now to work on it.
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#10 curiouskid23

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:06 AM

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?


A wiki like this is a fantastic idea. I'm definitely interested and I've got some time now to work on it.


Great! If you'd like to help out, then just pick whatever compound your interested in and share a link to it through workflowy or dropbox.


I consider the stuff I post on workflowy to be much more refined, but I've got a bunch of less organized notes in this dropbox folder.

https://www.dropbox....cdqd/xVVfA7jMgq

If this thing starts taking off, perhaps we could start using a facebook group, a mailing list, or just listing everybody's contact info in workflowy to keep everyone motivated to keep working.

How is it that this post on Cerebrolysin has 200,000+ views whereas Chrono's Nootropics Thread Index only has 64,000+ views?

#11 evo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:52 AM

Personally I'd love to build such a system, I'm just swamped right now with a million and one projects. Any other engineers in here?


A wiki like this is a fantastic idea. I'm definitely interested and I've got some time now to work on it.


Great! If you'd like to help out, then just pick whatever compound your interested in and share a link to it through workflowy or dropbox.


I consider the stuff I post on workflowy to be much more refined, but I've got a bunch of less organized notes in this dropbox folder.

https://www.dropbox....cdqd/xVVfA7jMgq

If this thing starts taking off, perhaps we could start using a facebook group, a mailing list, or just listing everybody's contact info in workflowy to keep everyone motivated to keep working.

How is it that this post on Cerebrolysin has 200,000+ views whereas Chrono's Nootropics Thread Index only has 64,000+ views?


^ Google. All about SEO, and I bring that up because our SERP rankings on various names (layman, research, generic, brand) will affect the user-base and by corollary the quality of source, discussion, and recency.

I'm a designer/artist turned engineer--I believe function, in a sense, is molded by form and that form is the immediate impression which frames the experience. All that not to be lofty, but to say that ultimately two factors will determine success:

1) Usability; in the sense of researchers' ability to easily contribute, and more importantly, receive some kind of value (either extrinsic or intrinsic) for improving the community. What this 'value' is should be determined by someone actively involved in the field of chemical/pharmacokinetic research as they will likely have insight into the professional motives of similar individuals, and more importantly, will know how to keep out those undesirable (big pharma, biased and/or sub-par research). Making sure the right people have incentive to contribute quality information makes the community self-sustaining, and prevents the inevitable intellectual decline you see with mediums like web forums (especially when they undergo rapid growth; reddit is a good example though a different context entirely).

2) Clarity; Information needs to be laid out PRACTICALLY. I've known many people from Ivy League research communities and a consistent trend seems to be the desire to "archive" information. So much time is spent trying to figure out how to classify and store information that the bigger picture and more abstract connections are often lost. Now we all know that proper classification of data is a critical precept to quality research, my point is that the only way for this to gain any traction in a broader demographic is to feature the *practical implications* of this data in a context that is accessible to those without a degree in biochem (all the while not alienating those interested in more formal analysis)

I can provide this second perspective, as I have an avid interest in pharmacokinetics but have never received any formal instruction in the field. As for the first, we need someone experienced in the research community to weigh in. I can draft the ideal front-end UI, but the more complex features catering to these content providers will have to be determined by someone with appropriate perspective in the field... We need a blend of these archetypes to create an optimal UX.

I think the ideal outcome is something that comprises the best qualities of the following platforms:

- Wikipedia: seamless collaborative editing, and bibliographic capability (note: their reference system is actually horribly designed--needs a serious usability overhaul)
- Chemspider: easily accessible documenting of physical properties, patents, chemical data (also a very basic UI but data is accessible which is a UX plus)
- Erowid: low quality but high volume of anecdotal evidence and a 'guinea pig' magnet (with formatting guidelines, quality could improve slightly and with enough volume researchers could search for commonalities [side effects, etc] to develop hypotheses on bleeding edge research before receiving clinical trial approval)


Wish I had the time to spearhead development, but it's just not feasible for me right now. If someone comes along who's seriously motivated to do this right, I'm happy to guide them on the implementation.

That said, personally I'd rather see it done right or not at all; I know this might come off as elitist, but as someone who's made it in the tech world, I've seen a lot of sub-par developers waste everyones time trying to justify things that don't qualify as *practical solutions*. Another chem database just won't cut it, unless you're looking for a myopic sampling of information and ~1k/mo from AdSense.

Bottom line, this is an original idea that doesn't currently exist in the capacity we've envisioned. If it's built *correctly*, it will become an authority database to professional researchers, students, and even the general public in exponential fashion.

[edit] Another brainstorming point but I seriously have to get back to work... The discussion/wiki area should probably have a simple & subtle color scheme to easily identify the trust level of various pieces of information. A simple algorithm could calculate this based on the # of sources & their respective trust ratings as determined by a moderator/researcher/medical authority/etc. This way everyone can efficiently locate information relevant to them without us having to segregate it. Of course, there should still be in-page relative links to more detailed breakdowns that are comprehensive and tailored to each type of user.

Also on that note, modularity is important--everything needs function seamlessly to provide experiential simplicity. If you're looking at a research study, it should show relevant & ranked information for all related fields (compounds, researchers, follow-up/chronological studies, assertions, and relational links [bio. pathways, qualitative info, pkd background for laymen]). Similarly if you're looking at a compound, all related components need to be featured (studies, documentation, mechanism(s) of action, experiences, discussion). These all need to be relational, and seamlessly in sync not just on a static database level, but qualitatively--it's not just display of information, but trying to make that information as *useful* as possible and potentially provide insight.

Edited by lmlj, 15 October 2012 - 07:30 AM.

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#12 kagalive1985

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:47 AM

I'm thinking of starting a nootropic wiki PM me if you wish to contribute.

Thanks

#13 golden1

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

I can easily start this on my hosting package, I just have to install wiki and whatever customization you guys want. I'll do it now since it only takes a second.

edit: oh you want some fancy over the top stuff. it's great to think of crazy ideas like that, but if I can just voice an opinion.. most of it will never happen.

if you want a plain wiki with whatever extensions I can host it though and possibly code other extensions...or if someone else codes the insanely complex parts of the above idea I can also host it.

Edited by golden1, 05 November 2012 - 10:07 PM.


#14 kagalive1985

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 09:59 PM

excellent! let us know when it's up and running :D

#15 Genetically Different

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

Nice effort.

The best place to buy Lion's Mane right now is Mushroom Harvest. The whole powder contains polypeptides, which are absent from pills isolated for the NGF stimulation.

The peptides are really important. To test them, go out drinking and wake up with a hangover. In the morning drink a big glass of water with two tablespoons of whole powder Lion's Mane. In 30 minutes it's as if your peripheral nervous system has stabilized. No wobblyness. No deliurium tremens shaky hands. No loss of coordination. Nerves of steel. The only way to notice the effect on the nervous system is to drink. Lion's Mane really should be a part of any hangover remedy concoction.



There was a huge thread on lions main on here disscussing this mushroom in great detail and I will soon be experimenting with it.
The thread went into great detail from chrono and a few other regulars on here doing in depth research. They concluded that the best lions main was from home defence not your brand. It wwas down to the extraction process of the mycelium cultures.
You shouldnt be giving info out like that unwarrennted.
I will be sticking to what chrono's research has suggested taking thanks.

#16 summertimex

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:55 AM

just build it so its a modular dynamic system with like more social networking type habits kinda like a wiki in a stream of discussion with a few streams of data interconnected.

make the interface of the data more presentable and orderly than usual so it just gets to the point and discoveries about it. then more commentary and so forth at another place.

have maybe collapse and extend type functions or algorithmic connection functions of different peices.

Edited by gen6k, 07 November 2012 - 09:56 AM.


#17 golden1

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:07 AM

http://rharr.com/wiki/

Set up a wiki, you need to make an account and then you can create/edit pages. Figured I'd set it up and see if you guys go anywhere with it.

Edit: it's completely empty right now, I don't have the time to add nootropics or such, but if you make an account anyone should be able too.

Oh also feel free to use it however, or suggest wiki extensions, or other things. I can try to accommodate anything that doesn't require me actually coding anything(benzo tapering makes focusing on coding impossible).

I have infinite bandwidth and 20gB of space, btw, so it's solid as can be.

Edited by golden1, 13 November 2012 - 05:19 AM.


#18 curiouskid23

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:05 AM

http://rharr.com/wiki/

Set up a wiki, you need to make an account and then you can create/edit pages. Figured I'd set it up and see if you guys go anywhere with it.

Edit: it's completely empty right now, I don't have the time to add nootropics or such, but if you make an account anyone should be able too.

Oh also feel free to use it however, or suggest wiki extensions, or other things. I can try to accommodate anything that doesn't require me actually coding anything(benzo tapering makes focusing on coding impossible).

I have infinite bandwidth and 20gB of space, btw, so it's solid as can be.


THANKS! I added the first edit for the wiki and gave some clearly defined ways for people to start contributing.

I think this wiki will be a great place to start aggregating content for now. Ultimately, I think we should develop new software, but that will probably be a ways off.

LET'S GET THIS THING OFF THE GROUND!

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#19 kevinseven11

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:57 AM

People should add its effects on brain waves. Anyone who has an eeg device should contribute!
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