79 replies to this topic

[Luminosity]

I do.


The book, Challenges of Change by Stanley Fulham sheds light on this. He believes that the grays have a deal with elements within the U.S. government that allow them to use certain humans as experimental animals and brood mares in exchange for technology. He believes that there are aliens from five or six planets that visit earth regularly, all with different motives. Russia, in contrast with our government, shoots the grays out of the sky as they have made no such deal. China has a deal with them. There has been a powerful disinformation campaign to keep people who have info on UFO's from being seen as credible, coordinated by certain elements in the CIA and Military Intelligence.

Edited by Luminosity, 26 September 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[Droplet]

I believe that people see something in the sky but the question is what.. Could be a natural phenomena we have yet to understand, trick of the mind brought on by something we have yet to pin point or indeed alien craft. As UFO means "unidentified flying object," I'll say yes because I believe that there are things out there that we have yet to identify. As to what I think they are then I don't know but I wouldn't brand someone who has told me they saw something weird as instantly crazy.

[churchill]

I don't.

Assuming extra terrestrials have visited this planet, means that they have a level of technology well above our e.g. FTL, advanced genetic engineering 10000+ years of technology ahead of us. Picture firing an arrow at a tank, and Fulham is saying that they got shot down by the Russians?

Why would they need to come to earth to experiment on humans and risk discovery? All they would need to do is get a few humans and take them off world, or take a genetic sample and grow as many human in a lab as needed.

Why would they need to collude with the governments when they could just threaten us with global extinction with a genetically engineered virus or mass bombardment from space?

[platypus]

Where are the alien artefacts? Even if these guys are super-advanced technologically that does not make them infallible.

[Droplet]

If there are such things as alien abductions, I'd like to know why on earth they seem so obsessed with anal probes? Couldn't resist!

[Luminosity]

There are alien artifacts and alien bodies. Some are in custody of the US military. They crash more than you would expect, more so in the past than now (Roswell). They are not infallible. Their navigation systems weren't as well adapted to forces on Earth as they could have been. When a craft crashed in South America (Brazil?) elements in the US military intelligence community went through the local government to get control of the evidence and spirit it away. Stuff gets spirited away and people are pressured to remain quiet. Sometimes people "commit suicide." A military officer in South America who knew too much "killed himself" is a weird way that doesn't look normal.

The grays are unable to reproduce normally. They are using us and apparently animals to to perpetuate themselves through cloning. They extract material from us and animals and at times use us to incubate their young. I think they can't even clone themselves without some of our DNA to strengthen the mixture. There are supposedly thousands of humans living on other worlds who were spirited away by aliens. Some of them are people who have "disappeared" on earth. I think a whole town in China "disappeared" (?) Not sure about that one.

Their craft are not always invulnerable. There are different types of aliens from different planets with different crafts. They have ways of hiding them from our eyes at times but that isn't foolproof. If you shot a high powered missile at an earth space craft what would happen? Perhaps they could make their craft indestructible, but at what cost? If the primary entity that could even shoot them down was the military and they have co-opted them, wouldn't that accomplish the same goal? I believe they also have cloaking devices and can create "clouds" to cover themselves too. Their technology is well beyond ours but that doesn't mean they are always invulnerable.

The Philadelphia Experiment is an example of technology that we got from aliens. We were trying to effect time travel but it ended disastrously. Think about it, during this time period (mid twentieth century) we didn't even have self-correcting typewriters. That wasn't our technology.

As to why the aliens did this instead of that, that's just what they did. The grays were dying out as a species and are seriously morally bankrupt (those are related). In their desperation and their immorality they did what they did. Earlier aliens met with our elected leaders. They met with a President, but over time they decided to work secretly with a cabal within military intelligence so there would be no leaks. So that's how it stands.

I don't believe everything in the Challenges of Change but I do believe most of it, based on other stuff I have learned or believe.

Edited by Luminosity, 27 September 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[churchill]

My basic point still stands. Species with advanced FTL is 1000+ years ahead of us. There is absolutely no need for them to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

[Turnbuckle]

Where are the alien artefacts? Even if these guys are super-advanced technologically that does not make them infallible.

If aliens have been visiting, they have been coming for a very long time. Hundreds of millions of years. And by now alien microorganisms have gotten loose and some have managed to survive. If we ever find them, we'll know them by their DNA.

[Nootropic Cat]

That there is a phenomenon is, imo, beyond question. The idea of post-singularity aliens flying around in physical space ships buzzing backward planets doesn't make a lot of sense though. It seems more likely to be some kind of manifestation of 'psyche out there'*, on the same continuum as poltergeists and so on. When you delve into it, you see many common themes running through the history of folk mythology, paranormal phenomena, the trickster archetype, etc. etc. It's still incredibly weird and confusing; maybe this stuff is even the glitch in the matrix that shows we live in a simulation. Where the evidence does point toward physical aliens, I would tend to assume this is either disinformation or, at a stretch, time-travelling humans from the very near future.

*Whether that refers to something projected by us, or to the fact that fundamentally there is a lot of psyche out there, is an open question.

Edited by TripleHelix, 27 September 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[xEva]

The questions of the poll were not formulated right. I do not believe in UFOs. I've seen 2 small saucers at a close range, when I was an adolescent (~25 meters and closer as I ran toward them). So, I do not believe in UFOs. I know they exist, cause I saw them.

Edited by xEva, 28 September 2012 - 05:34 AM.

[platypus]

The questions of the poll were not formulated right. I do not believe in UFOs. I've seen 2 small saucers at a close range, when I was an adolescent (~25 meters and closer as I ran toward them). So, I do not believe in UFOs. I know they exist, cause I saw them.

Can you rule normal technology (remote controlled deviced) and hallucinations out? How many seconds did the whole observation take?

[fogisa]

I like what I've read/seen by Steven Greer. I'm not sure that aliens are truly alien, though. I think it's more likely that we're all related. I also thought that the Phoenix Lights story was pretty amazing. But I do suspect that many ufos are actually our own secret technology.

[Luminosity]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

[Elus]

I've been on this planet for a few years now and I must say that it's quite a hospitable place. I've been trying to make myself appear slightly more human so I can blend in better, but I can't seem to get rid of this green tinge. Any advice? Maybe some creams or something will help.

Here's a pic my friend took of me just recently.

Edited by Elus, 30 September 2012 - 10:12 PM.

[churchill]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

I have already outlined it previously. You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced. This does not make any sense.

[Turnbuckle]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

I have already outlined it previously. You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced. This does not make any sense.

Just because an alien civilization is advanced doesn't mean a ship has access to all their technology.

[churchill]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

I have already outlined it previously. You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced. This does not make any sense.

Just because an alien civilization is advanced doesn't mean a ship has access to all their technology.

So what you are saying is rather than go through the hassle of putting a medical bay on their ship, they rather go through the hassle of re entry and getting shot up by the Russians? Alternatively if the facilities do require more space then why not just set it up on Mars? Again why risk death to procreate when you can do it with no risk.

I am also assuming that they essentially have self replicating technology, so even if they came to our solar system with a very small ship in its databank it would have all the schematics necessary to build out their level of technology within our solar system. So unless you want to argue against that, then they do have access to their advanced technology.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that the advanced alien species are not a bunch of cretins.

[Turnbuckle]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

I have already outlined it previously. You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced. This does not make any sense.

Just because an alien civilization is advanced doesn't mean a ship has access to all their technology.

So what you are saying is rather than go through the hassle of putting a medical bay on their ship, they rather go through the hassle of re entry and getting shot up by the Russians? Alternatively if the facilities do require more space then why not just set it up on Mars? Again why risk death to procreate when you can do it with no risk.

I am also assuming that they essentially have self replicating technology, so even if they came to our solar system with a very small ship in its databank it would have all the schematics necessary to build out their level of technology within our solar system. So unless you want to argue against that, then they do have access to their advanced technology.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that the advanced alien species are not a bunch of cretins.

No, I'm not saying that. It seems to me that if aliens wanted humans for study they would just take them. And they've probably done this many times over the past one hundred thousand years, long before the Russians had any missiles.

[churchill]

There is absolutely no need for them [alients] to come to earth to take humans for cloning when they would have access to exo womb technology which would allow them to grow a human in a vat in an unlimited quantity.

This is said with such certaintly. Based on what?

I have already outlined it previously. You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced. This does not make any sense.

Just because an alien civilization is advanced doesn't mean a ship has access to all their technology.

So what you are saying is rather than go through the hassle of putting a medical bay on their ship, they rather go through the hassle of re entry and getting shot up by the Russians? Alternatively if the facilities do require more space then why not just set it up on Mars? Again why risk death to procreate when you can do it with no risk.

I am also assuming that they essentially have self replicating technology, so even if they came to our solar system with a very small ship in its databank it would have all the schematics necessary to build out their level of technology within our solar system. So unless you want to argue against that, then they do have access to their advanced technology.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that the advanced alien species are not a bunch of cretins.

No, I'm not saying that. It seems to me that if aliens wanted humans for study they would just take them. And they've probably done this many times over the past one hundred thousand years, long before the Russians had any missiles.

So you don't believe what the op has said then?

[Turnbuckle]

So you don't believe what the op has said then?

Of course not. It's silly. Why would they need permission from any governments? Especially as they've probably been visiting the earth since before governments existed, even before humans existed. But that said, they could certainly have taken humans long ago and established a colony to educate and then return them for their own purposes. Presumably altruistic purposes.

[MrHappy]

Here's a fun list:

http://en.m.wikipedi...space#section_2

STS-48 has some interesting footage.

I generally spend a bit of time on http://reddit.com/r/ufos and the odd eyebrow raising video turns up between all the garbage there.

[xEva]

The questions of the poll were not formulated right. I do not believe in UFOs. I've seen 2 small saucers at a close range, when I was an adolescent (~25 meters and closer as I ran toward them). So, I do not believe in UFOs. I know they exist, cause I saw them.

Can you rule normal technology (remote controlled deviced) and hallucinations out? How many seconds did the whole observation take?

Funny enough, this account was one of my first posts on the board. I came in looking for the info on resveratrol and got into a similar discussion. I saw them long enough and clear enough to recognize them for what they were: 2 identical saucer-type things, about 60-75 cm in diameter, flying at at the level of the trolley cables at a leisure speed, over the bridge I was crossing on foot.

Were they remotely operated? How knows. If there were aliens inside, they'd have to be the size of lab mice, lol, just like in a well-known novel. But this is true, they were this small. And the second saucer, the one that trailed the first, had some indication as if it was having fun.. just the way it hesitated when it reached the trolley cables and dipped "its wing" and went in between them, like a kid, who would do that for fun. The first saucer went under the cables. The 2 apparently followed the course of the river and, having crossed the bridge by flying over it, descended back toward it. I kept leaning against the rail, trying to see whatever else I could, but they were just swallowed by darkness.

And it all went on in eerie silence.


I know you're jealous, lol.


And I am appalled by the level of discussion here. There are tens of thousands of UFO sightings. Some are described by pilots. As for the aliens... very few, to my knowledge, and those few are strange, to say the least. And yet here you argue about the whole phenomena as if those weird stories have established basis in reality.

But maybe I am prejudiced. I have never seen an alien and have never met a person who did. Maybe if I did, I would be more sympathetic.

I don't know by whom or what and from what location the saucers I saw were operated. The way they flew indicated intelligence to me. Of an operator or... is it possible those things were beings? The huge saucers others describe surely must be craft. I have not see them myself, but believe the accounts of those who did, especially when they were seen by a half a town.




.

Edited by xEva, 03 October 2012 - 03:05 AM.

[Luminosity]

So you don't believe what the op has said then? --Churchill

Of course not. It's silly. --Turnbuckle

Why thank you.

"You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced [enough to reproduce without the taking genetic mmaterial from Earthlings or using them as incubators?]. This does not make any sense.. . . . rather than go through the hassle of putting a medical bay on their ship, [They have medical bays on their ships but also remove humans to other worlds much as we have treated indigenous peoples, removing some and messing with some in their own countries] they rather go through the hassle of re entry and getting shot up by the Russians? {Grays probably avoid Russians if possible} . . . Again why risk death to procreate when you can do it with no risk.{Cause they can't]

I am also assuming that they essentially have self replicating technology, so even if they came to our solar system with a very small ship in its databank it would have all the schematics necessary to build out their level of technology within our solar system. So unless you want to argue against that, then they do have access to their advanced technology. [When you make assumptions you make an ass of u and me.]

Lets assume for the sake of argument that the advanced alien species are not a bunch of cretins." --Churchill

Although I wouldn't call the Grays "cretins" I see many things that are lacking in them. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but Churchill's arguments contain many assumptions that just aren't supported. Certainty isn't a reasoned argument. The more you know, the less you assume that the world will conform to your theories.

Edited by Luminosity, 03 October 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[churchill]

So you believe that an advanced alien species, does not have advanced biotech capabilities.
Riddle me this then,

So you don't believe what the op has said then? --Churchill

Of course not. It's silly. --Turnbuckle

Why thank you.

"You are saying there are multiple advanced species out there, and yet their biotech is not advanced [enough to reproduce without the taking genetic mmaterial from Earthlings or using them as incubators?]. This does not make any sense.. . . . rather than go through the hassle of putting a medical bay on their ship, [They have medical bays on their ships but also remove humans to other worlds much as we have treated indigenous peoples, removing some and messing with some in their own countries] they rather go through the hassle of re entry and getting shot up by the Russians? {Grays probably avoid Russians if possible} . . . Again why risk death to procreate when you can do it with no risk.{Cause they can't]

I am also assuming that they essentially have self replicating technology, so even if they came to our solar system with a very small ship in its databank it would have all the schematics necessary to build out their level of technology within our solar system. So unless you want to argue against that, then they do have access to their advanced technology. [When you make assumptions you make an ass of u and me.]

Lets assume for the sake of argument that the advanced alien species are not a bunch of cretins." --Churchill

Although I wouldn't call the Grays "cretins" I see many things that are lacking in them. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but Churchill's arguments contain many assumptions that just aren't supported. Certainty isn't a reasoned argument. The more you know, the less you assume that the world will conform to your theories.

As opposed to your posts which are full of large assumptions that what you have been reading is not just a lie or has a simpler non alien explanation?
1) Your assumption that FTL is even possible.
2) Your assumption that there are multiple alien species out there, but none of them have tried to colonize us yet. We have a highly habitable planet here, one virus bomb later and most of the population is wiped out as well as resistance for colonization. You brought up the indigenous population to strengthen your argument then just follow through with it, what happened to their land? Or is that line of reasoning only convenient when it backs up your argument.
3) That an advanced alien species comes to this planet but does not bring appropriate hosts from their home planet to procreate.
4) An advanced alien species has somehow managed to not develop their biotech to a level much above ours? But they developed FTL?

Where is the weight of evidence to back up your fantastical claims. Where are your verifiable facts. Oh right it has all been removed by the Grays, how convenient for you.

Even if I was to come up with the best argument in the world, what would be the point? You would just then say I was an agent of the Grays and move on believing in fairy tales.

[platypus]

There are tens of thousands of UFO sightings. Some are described by pilots.

What's the percentage of pilots that have seen UFOs? 0.000001%? The thing that surprises me is that astronomers practically never report UFO sightings, even though they can spend entire nigths staring at the sky. Why is this you think?

[Turnbuckle]

The thing that surprises me is that astronomers practically never report UFO sightings, even though they can spend entire nigths staring at the sky. Why is this you think?

Do astronomers really stare at the sky? I thought computers did that now.

The final data point comes from the Soviet Union. . . Section 3, "Observers and Witnesses of Observations," contains some very interesting data. They note that "contrary to the widespread fallacy, there is a highly significant percentage of astronomers among the observers." By comparing the number of UFO observers from a given occupation with census data, the authors arrive at a "Activity Coefficient." A higher coefficient indicates a group is reporting more UFOs than expected by population.

At the time, approximately .002% of Soviets over the age of nine were astronomers. Yet they accounted for 10 reports in the Soviet dataset. This yields an activity coefficient of 7500 [Note: NASA's translation reads 7000]. Undergraduates had a coefficient of 3, maintenance workers .9 and Students .02. The Soviet numbers are clear: astronomers report UFOs at astronomical rates.

http://www.huffingto..._b_1901480.html

Edited by Turnbuckle, 03 October 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[Nootropic Cat]

Wow Turnbuckle, that's some serious ownage lol.

[Brafarality]

No for the stock reasons:
Fermi Paradox, Great Silence, and Von Neumann Probes
Plus my own sense of the situation all suggest No.
But, that is a far from conclusive No. Visitation is definitely possible. To deny that it is possible that we have been or are being visited is ignorance.
Personally believe we are alone in the universe with nothing but the mysteries of the physical universe and consciousness, among other great mysteries, to explore, but the universe is far beyond my grasp, so no real clue.

[platypus]

The thing that surprises me is that astronomers practically never report UFO sightings, even though they can spend entire nigths staring at the sky. Why is this you think?

Do astronomers really stare at the sky? I thought computers did that now.

I should have said amateur astronomers etc., as that is what I meant. Don't you think UFOs would be visible to computers & sensors?

The final data point comes from the Soviet Union. . . Section 3, "Observers and Witnesses of Observations," contains some very interesting data. They note that "contrary to the widespread fallacy, there is a highly significant percentage of astronomers among the observers." By comparing the number of UFO observers from a given occupation with census data, the authors arrive at a "Activity Coefficient." A higher coefficient indicates a group is reporting more UFOs than expected by population.

At the time, approximately .002% of Soviets over the age of nine were astronomers. Yet they accounted for 10 reports in the Soviet dataset. This yields an activity coefficient of 7500 [Note: NASA's translation reads 7000]. Undergraduates had a coefficient of 3, maintenance workers .9 and Students .02. The Soviet numbers are clear: astronomers report UFOs at astronomical rates.

http://www.huffingto..._b_1901480.html

That is very interesting but I would like to know some more about those Russian statistics.

[Turnbuckle]

Don't you think UFOs would be visible to computers & sensors?

Sure, but it's probably less likely with a professional because they'd be working with a narrow field of view. Here's a UFO captured by an amateur.

Is it a bug?

There is a better video of it here but I wasn't able to run it.