79 replies to this topic

[Luminosity]

Thanks for the assist, Turnbuckle. Thanks for your contribution, Fogisa. The Phoenix crafts were silent and way to big too be earth planes.
Kids? Weather balloons? That's weak. Even the government doesn't use the weather balloon thing anymore. I understand that some people just don't believe in UFO's but what I don't get is why we now have three deniers using weak and discredited arguments. They are so attached and so persistent yet have essentially nothing on their side. If you are going to try to discredit UFO's, you need to work harder.

You may have seen the news about Gary McKinnon, the British hacker who won his battle to fight extradition to the US. The US military claimed that his actions were the "biggest military computer hack of all time."

http://www.guardian....-extradited-may

He said that he was looking for evidence of UFO's in the Pentagon computers and that he found it. He said he found pictures of "non-terrestial" personnel, and their ranks and names. I don't know what he saw but he was able to pull off a major hack and successfully fight off the US government over a ten year period. He's definitely got something going for him. His statements contribute another possible piece of information.

Edited by Luminosity, 17 October 2012 - 03:04 AM.

[Luminosity]

.

Edited by Luminosity, 17 October 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[fogisa]

I couldn't find the part in the article where it said he found anything, only that he was looking for evidence of ufos.

[MrHappy]

I liked the documentary "UFO: The Greatest Story Ever Denied" -

View on Vimeo.

..

It has a lot of interesting footage and explains the Disclosure Project - credible high ranking ex-military and private contractors going on record as witnesses for the existence and cover-up of UFOs.

[platypus]

Due to the "clumping" of memes one should always ask UFO-enthusiasts whether they believe that the moon-landings were faked.

[churchill]

Due to the "clumping" of memes one should always ask UFO-enthusiasts whether they believe that the moon-landings were faked.

Do memes actually clump? I think it is more of a case of someone looking for and believing in conspiracies, without the compeling evidence to support them, coupled with very poor critical thinking skills and a highly emotional response to any criticism which stops them before their brain can engage their critical thinking skills and identifying the cognitive bias they have in place for the subject.

Because it is a conspiracy any evidence that does come up, is just discarded because it lies disseminated by the conspirators.

Vitamin C cures cancer, aspartamane causes cancer, 9/11 was an inside job, the illuminati.

[Nootropic Cat]

I'm not going to get dragged in to the poo-flinging, but I can't help but chuckle at the fact that the flag-bearer for consensus reality in this thread is rocking a name/avatar combo derived from a television commercial. Anyway, carry on.

Edited by TripleHelix, 18 October 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[Luminosity]

Thanks for the info Mr. Happy.

Fogisa, sorry, that piece of info isn't in that article but it has been reported elsewhere.

Platypus, derision isn't a reasoned argument, but it might be all you have. I'm not responding to you further because we've seen what you've got.

Edited by Luminosity, 19 October 2012 - 05:33 AM.

[Luminosity]

Gordon Duff, who says he has sources in the US military and intelligence communities was on Coast to Coast radio recently talking about UFO's. A lot of the stuff he said is what I have learned from other sources, that the US had deals with the aliens starting with President Truman, that there is an underwater UFO base outside of Los Angeles. He also said some things I haven't heard elsewhere and don't necessarily believe. His online newspaper doesn't seem credible to me but he seemed more credible when he spoke. He says that the US and China acted together to check unfriendly aliens in the Pacific. He is the only source for this story. I have heard another story elsewhere where it seemed that the US and China were coordinating their policy towards the aliens, under the lead of the US. If you want to check it out for yourself, here's some material from the Coast to Coast website and a link to the show. You might have to subscribe to listen it. Maybe you can find it elsewhere for free.

He might be a disinformationalist, although I can't think of how he could be helping.

Aliens and the Military Coast to Coast October 16, 2012

First hour guest, editor of Veterans Today, Gordon Duff, talked about a report of a combined fleet operation between the U.S. and China against an alleged unfriendly ET threat. According to Duff, aliens in underwater bases planned to call their motherships in and seize the entire Pacific basin, not unlike what was depicted in the movie Independence Day. Further, Duff said that the Majestic 12 documents were real, and various treaties were established with alien visitors. He also spoke about how the US has spent trillions of dollars developing advanced weaponry and technology, unknown to the public-- one of his sources claimed America had built an interstellar craft as far back as 1972.

Gordon Duff, senior editor of Veterans Today, is a former UN Diplomat, USMC Vietnam combat veteran, and Deputy Chairman of the Board of a European based multi-national. His career has included extensive experience in international banking, along with such diverse areas as consulting on counter insurgency, surveillance technologies, and intelligence.

http://www.coasttoco...show/2012/10/16

Edited by Luminosity, 19 October 2012 - 06:36 AM.

[churchill]

4 reasons why people tend to believe conspiracy theories are patternicity, agenticity, confirmation bias and hindsight bias.

More in this article. Then it links to a scientific American piece.
http://www.smartplan...cy-theories/762

Love this quote, it sums it up for me. Humans have trouble keeping secrets when it comes to 2 people let alone thousands of people.
“The more elaborate a conspiracy theory is, and the more people that would need to be involved, the less likely it is true."

[churchill]

Thanks for the info Mr. Happy.

Fogisa, sorry, that piece of info isn't in that article but it has been reported elsewhere.

Platypus, derision isn't a reasoned argument, but it might be all you have. I'm not responding to you further because we've seen what you've got.

As if you are providing reasoned argument. You have already stated that it is pointless to provide reasoned arguments against you because you just ignore them with the confirmation bias and hindsight bias you are employing.

How about spending some time trying to improve your own thinking instead of just circlejerking yourself. A few books on critical thinking would do the trick. It would require to actually think hard, so I am dubious you would bother.

You are not bothering to respond because you have no good response.

[fogisa]

Thanks for the video Mr. Happy, I couldn't watch it because I have a pet peeve about noise and sound effects and feeling manipulated by music. Sometimes the noise in some of these types of videos is so loud I can't hear what they are even saying and I become quite irritated.

I don't really follow conspiracy theories because I simply can't understand them, theyre too detailed and referencing too many things that I can't trace down or even comprehend and I admit, I don't have tremendous critical thinking skills, I must rely on other ways of knowing things and sometimes I'm wrong just as anybody is. I listen to Steven Greer and he says things that I just hold in my mind as a possibility and often probablility. I certainly think there are conspiracies.

I could say "One should always ask if they believe the US didn't conspire to kill off the native americans and strip them of their core, their heart and soul." If they can do that, I feel like they must be capable of just about anything. It goes for all of humanity, the fearful. Sometimes I can't believe we've evolved at all, we seem to be the same barbarians we always were, killing for beliefs, religion, and if anything were worse, maybe. but i digress.

[Luminosity]

If it helps, you can mute the sound on stuff. Sometimes there are closed captions you can activate.

[buckwheats]

yeah i believe in them as much as i believe in other things i'm not sure about...

but i don't think it makes sense to study them right now (they do not seem like they will be relevant to humanity in the near future). so let's please cure aging / ensure human survival first .

Edited by buckwheats, 22 October 2012 - 08:45 PM.

[fogisa]

If it helps, you can mute the sound on stuff. Sometimes there are closed captions you can activate.

Thanks, that's a good suggestion. Today, I watched "UFOs 50 Years of Denial". It was good but from 1997. Kind of a refresher course, I guess, I thought there was some good reliable sources in it, too.

[fogisa]

for alien enthusiasts:





Lloyd Pye gives a major update of his years of research on the StarChild Skull. Recorded live at an out door setting under the London night Sky in September 2012, This AMMACH Project Field Report provides a concise summary and hard DNA data on the research on the adult nonhuman skull, misnamed SarChild.
Taped in front of a small audience at StarChild Sponsor Belinda McKenzie Highgate residence. Interview by Joanne Summerscales, lighting and production by Miles Johnston of the AMMACH Projec

[Turnbuckle]

for alien enthusiasts:





Lloyd Pye gives a major update of his years of research on the StarChild Skull. Recorded live at an out door setting under the London night Sky in September 2012, This AMMACH Project Field Report provides a concise summary and hard DNA data on the research on the adult nonhuman skull, misnamed SarChild.
Taped in front of a small audience at StarChild Sponsor Belinda McKenzie Highgate residence. Interview by Joanne Summerscales, lighting and production by Miles Johnston of the AMMACH Projec

I just watched the beginning, but the skull is very obviously human from the suture pattern, and the DNA tested as native American more than ten years ago.

[fogisa]

Well, I didn't see it to the end, myself and what I did watch was interrupted but from what I recall, I think the 2003 dna test proved that the 1999 test was contaminated or faulty somehow as it was tested by students overseen by teachers. The latest dna test apparently can only confirm that it had one human parent. Lloyd Pye also said that dna testing has come a long ways since 1999, when the first? test was done, saying it was native american.

Odd things about the skull were the location and depth of the eye sockets, the heart shape, the lack of of vestiges of sinus cavities, the large volume of the brain cavity and the hardness of the bone material was likened to tooth enamel, very difficult to cut, yet it was much lighter than a human skull, there was something more that I can't remember about the fibers of the skull. Hydroencephalitis was ruled out because of the way the sutures were. Some also proposed that it was cradle-boarded but that seems to be ruled out. It was said if it was cradle boarded it would have been strangled at such an angle and that because of the convolutions of the back part of the skull it did not show any signs of cradle-boarding.

Edited by fogisa, 25 October 2012 - 12:59 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

The latest dna test apparently can only confirm that it had one human parent.

That's because they tested the mtDNA and that only comes from the mother. But be assured that if it had a human mother, it also had a human father.

[Andey]

There is no smoke without fire )
http://www.xcom.com