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Intelligent Design and Science – In or Out?

id debate intelligent design is id science god and sience creationism neutral id position

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#1021 platypus

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:12 PM

 

Unless there are some cited peer-reviewed scientific papers on ID, it is definitely NOT a science already by definition. What are the most cited papers? Book chapters or opinion pieces do not count. Where are the breakthroughs, predictions and applications ID? I have a feeling there are none. The writing is on the wall and this thread should be closed. 

 

There are many peer-reviewed papers.  Too bad you are ignorant of them but I guess this proves ID is science!  What a joke, Darwin was not peer reviewed.  What definition says something can only be science if pee-revied?  Like anything uncomfortable you want to censor and cut off discussion
 

So what are the most cited published scientific papers on ID? Are there any? Where are the RESULTS??


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#1022 shadowhawk

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:25 PM

 

 

Unless there are some cited peer-reviewed scientific papers on ID, it is definitely NOT a science already by definition. What are the most cited papers? Book chapters or opinion pieces do not count. Where are the breakthroughs, predictions and applications ID? I have a feeling there are none. The writing is on the wall and this thread should be closed. 

 

There are many peer-reviewed papers.  Too bad you are ignorant of them but I guess this proves ID is science!  What a joke, Darwin was not peer reviewed.  What definition says something can only be science if pee-revied?  Like anything uncomfortable you want to censor and cut off discussion
 

So what are the most cited published scientific papers on ID? Are there any? Where are the RESULTS??

 

I just gave you a bunch in my last post and here are some more.  ID according to you therefore is science.  Here is some more.  http://www.discovery...wnload&id=10141

 

I know you didn't bother to listen to the podcast on whether ID is Science earlier.

http://www.longecity...-34#entry718428


Edited by shadowhawk, 12 March 2015 - 11:29 PM.


#1023 Antonio2014

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:34 AM

We were talking about serious journals, not journals like BIO-Complexity. Show me a paper in a journal with some impact factor.


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#1024 platypus

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 10:37 AM

 

So what are the most cited published scientific papers on ID? Are there any? Where are the RESULTS??

 

I just gave you a bunch in my last post and here are some more.  ID according to you therefore is science.  Here is some more.  http://www.discovery...wnload&id=10141

No you didn't. Show me a cited paper that has had some kind of an impact - can you find a single one? Evolutionary science has literally thousands of such papers. 

 

-> ID is not a science, please lets close this thread. 


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#1025 brianjakub

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 03:09 PM

 

 

So what are the most cited published scientific papers on ID? Are there any? Where are the RESULTS??

 

I just gave you a bunch in my last post and here are some more.  ID according to you therefore is science.  Here is some more.  http://www.discovery...wnload&id=10141

No you didn't. Show me a cited paper that has had some kind of an impact - can you find a single one? Evolutionary science has literally thousands of such papers. 

 

-> ID is not a science, please lets close this thread. 

 

Come on platypus, why would you want to close this thread before giving me a chance to present a logical hypothesis, backed with evidence.  You are starting to sound like the forum police.  If you want I can send you all my notes on my hypothesis if you can't be patient enough to discuss it on the forum.


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#1026 addx

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 04:05 PM

I would like to see all shadowhawks threads closed and him and his clone banned. All of his threads carry nothing of value towards the goal of this community and his discrimination of non-christian beliefs and believers potentially deters good people from this forum and annoys existing members who accidentaly stumble on them. There is a history of at least 15 honest good forum members becoming frustrated by shadowhawks micromanaging their common sense, getting subtley insulted by shadowhawk, basicly everyone who's ever written a post on these threads, even extremely patient and polite people, ended up calling shadowhawk names which seem to be shadowhawks goal, since he obviously can't achieve anything but that.

So, this troll fest needs to be brought to an end. I hope everyone reading this will report any of the messages in any of his threads as trolling, religious discrimination, hate speech (look at the islam thread) and so on. Hopefully the moderators will do something about this.

Also shadowhawk, after antagonizing every person on the forum seems to have cloned himself as brianjakub to try again with a new avatar and is now awarding himself "good point" for posts like the one above this one that actually lacks a point. Why is a forum member repeatedly asking another forum member if he can post something while in fact his questions are posts?

This should seriously be stopped, these threads should be closed or removed, his avatars removed, his avatars post awards nulled and so on.

Remove and undo the troll already.

Edited by addx, 13 March 2015 - 04:18 PM.

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#1027 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 07:59 PM

We were talking about serious journals, not journals like BIO-Complexity. Show me a paper in a journal with some impact factor.

 

Identify which journals one has to publish in to be legitimate science and when this became a part of science. Has every scientific advancement been published in these journals?  You didn't even look at what I showed you.  I suspect this has nothing to do with science.  Why don't I hear you dealing with the real issues of ID.
 


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#1028 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:10 PM

I would like to see all shadowhawks threads closed and him and his clone banned. All of his threads carry nothing of value towards the goal of this community and his discrimination of non-christian beliefs and believers potentially deters good people from this forum and annoys existing members who accidentaly stumble on them. There is a history of at least 15 honest good forum members becoming frustrated by shadowhawks micromanaging their common sense, getting subtley insulted by shadowhawk, basicly everyone who's ever written a post on these threads, even extremely patient and polite people, ended up calling shadowhawk names which seem to be shadowhawks goal, since he obviously can't achieve anything but that.

So, this troll fest needs to be brought to an end. I hope everyone reading this will report any of the messages in any of his threads as trolling, religious discrimination, hate speech (look at the islam thread) and so on. Hopefully the moderators will do something about this.

Also shadowhawk, after antagonizing every person on the forum seems to have cloned himself as brianjakub to try again with a new avatar and is now awarding himself "good point" for posts like the one above this one that actually lacks a point. Why is a forum member repeatedly asking another forum member if he can post something while in fact his questions are posts?

This should seriously be stopped, these threads should be closed or removed, his avatars removed, his avatars post awards nulled and so on.

Remove and undo the troll already.

What a bigoted joke .  Name calling, logical fallacies and censorship is all this post is about.  Have a good day.


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#1029 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 11:06 PM

Liars Paradox

"A major way to test a philosophy or worldview is to ask: Is it logically consistent? Internal contradictions are fatal to any worldview because contradictory statements are necessarily false. "This circle is square" is contradictory, so it has to be false. An especially damaging form of contradiction is self-referential absurdity -- which means a theory sets up a definition of truth that it itself fails to meet. Therefore it refutes itself....

Finding%20Truth.jpgAn example of self-referential absurdity is a theory called evolutionary epistemology, a naturalistic approach that applies evolution to the process of knowing. The theory proposes that the human mind is a product of natural selection. The implication is that the ideas in our minds were selected for their survival value, not for their truth-value.

But what if we apply that theory to itself? Then it, too, was selected for survival, not truth -- which discredits its own claim to truth. Evolutionary epistemology commits suicide.

Astonishingly, many prominent thinkers have embraced the theory without detecting the logical contradiction. Philosopher John Gray writes, "If Darwin's theory of natural selection is true,... the human mind serves evolutionary success, not truth." What is the contradiction in that statement?

Gray has essentially said, if Darwin's theory is true, then it "serves evolutionary success, not truth." In other words, if Darwin's theory is true, then it is not true.

Self-referential absurdity is akin to the well-known liar's paradox: "This statement is a lie." If the statement is true, then (as it says) it is not true, but a lie.

Another example comes from Francis Crick. In The Astonishing Hypothesis, he writes, "Our highly developed brains, after all, were not evolved under the pressure of discovering scientific truths but only to enable us to be clever enough to survive." But that means Crick's own theory is not a "scientific truth." Applied to itself, the theory commits suicide.

Of course, the sheer pressure to survive is likely to produce some correct ideas. A zebra that thinks lions are friendly will not live long. But false ideas may be useful for survival. Evolutionists admit as much: Eric Baum says, "Sometimes you are more likely to survive and propagate if you believe a falsehood than if you believe the truth." Steven Pinker writes, "Our brains were shaped for fitness, not for truth. Sometimes the truth is adaptive, but sometimes it is not." The upshot is that survival is no guarantee of truth. If survival is the only standard, we can never know which ideas are true and which are adaptive but false.

To make the dilemma even more puzzling, evolutionists tell us that natural selection has produced all sorts of false concepts in the human mind. Many evolutionary materialists maintain that free will is an illusion, consciousness is an illusion, even our sense of self is an illusion -- and that all these false ideas were selected for their survival value.

So how can we know whether the theory of evolution itself is one of those false ideas? The theory undercuts itself.

A few thinkers, to their credit, recognize the problem. Literary critic Leon Wieseltier writes, "If reason is a product of natural selection, then how much confidence can we have in a rational argument for natural selection? ... Evolutionary biology cannot invoke the power of reason even as it destroys it."

On a similar note, philosopher Thomas Nagel asks, "Is the [evolutionary] hypothesis really compatible with the continued confidence in reason as a source of knowledge?" His answer is no: "I have to be able to believe ... that I follow the rules of logic because they are correct -- not merely because I am biologically programmed to do so." Hence, "insofar as the evolutionary hypothesis itself depends on reason, it would be self-undermining."

Darwin's Selective Skepticism

People are sometimes under the impression that Darwin himself recognized the problem. They typically cite Darwin's famous "horrid doubt" passage where he questions whether the human mind can be trustworthy if it is a product of evolution: "With me, the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy."

But, of course, Darwin's theory itself was a "conviction of man's mind." So why should it be "at all trustworthy"?

Surprisingly, however, Darwin never confronted this internal contradiction in this theory. Why not? Because he expressed his "horrid doubt" selectively -- only when considering the case for a Creator.

From time to time, Darwin admitted that he still found the idea of God persuasive. He once confessed his "inward conviction ... that the Universe is not the result of chance." It was in the next sentence that he expressed his "horrid doubt." So the "conviction" he mistrusted was his lingering conviction that the universe is not the result of chance.

In another passage Darwin admitted, "I feel compelled to look to a First Cause having an intelligent mind in some degree analogous to that of man." Again, however, he immediately veered off into skepticism: "But then arises the doubt -- can the mind of man, which has, as I fully believe, been developed from a mind as low as that possessed by the lowest animal, be trusted when it draws such grand conclusions?"

That is, can it be trusted when it draws "grand conclusions" about a First Cause? Perhaps the concept of God is merely an instinct programmed into us by natural selection, Darwin added, like a monkey's "instinctive fear and hatred of a snake."

In short, it was on occasions when Darwin's mind led him to a theistic conclusion that he dismissed the mind as untrustworthy. He failed to recognize that, to be logically consistent, he needed to apply the same skepticism to his own theory.

Modern followers of Darwin still apply the theory selectively. Harvard paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould wrote, "Darwin applied a consistent philosophy of materialism to his interpretation of nature," in which "mind, spirit, and God as well, are just words that express the wondrous results of neuronal complexity." In other words, God is an idea that appears in the human mind when the electrical circuitry of the brain has evolved to a certain level of complexity.

To be logically consistent, however, Gould should turn the same skepticism back onto Darwin's ideas, which he never did. Gould applied his evolutionary skepticism selectively -- to discredit the idea of God.

Applied consistently, Darwinism undercuts not only itself but also the entire scientific enterprise. Kenan Malik, a writer trained in neurobiology, writes, "If our cognitive capacities were simply evolved dispositions, there would be no way of knowing which of these capacities lead to true beliefs and which to false ones." Thus "to view humans as little more than sophisticated animals ...undermines confidence in the scientific method."

Just so. Science itself is at stake. John Lennox, professor of mathematics at the University of Oxford, writes that according to atheism, "the mind that does science ... is the end product of a mindless unguided process. Now, if you knew your computer was the product of a mindless unguided process, you wouldn't trust it. So, to me atheism undermines the rationality I need to do science."

Of course, the atheist pursuing his research has no choice but to rely on rationality, just as everyone else does. The point is that he has no philosophical basis for doing so. Only those who affirm a rational Creator have a basis for trusting human rationality.

The reason so few atheists and materialists seem to recognize the problem is that, like Darwin, they apply their skepticism selectively. They apply it to undercut only ideas they reject, especially ideas about God. They make a tacit exception for their own worldview commitments.

© 2015 Nancy Pearcey. Finding Truth: 5 Principles for Unmasking Atheism Secularism, and Other God Substitutes published by David C Cook. All rights reserved."


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#1030 addx

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 11:14 PM

The theory proposes that the human mind is a product of natural selection. The implication is that the ideas in our minds were selected for their survival value, not for their truth-value.

But what if we apply that theory to itself? Then it, too, was selected for survival, not truth -- which discredits its own claim to truth. Evolutionary epistemology commits suicide.

Astonishingly, many prominent thinkers have embraced the theory without detecting the logical contradiction. 

 

If the author of the book actually knew anything about logic or philosophy she would know that what exists is true (can exist), what doesn't exist is false (can not exist), therefore selection(survival) is a process of finding the truth (that which can exist).

 

There's no logical contradiction, but I also have to emphasize the robustness of the abastrac philosophical framework of evolution.

 

The author of the book wrongly implicates that biological evolution somehow selects ideas in our minds. It doesn't, it selects genes. Genes are not thoughts or ideas or theories. So you should have noticed that unexplained implication. 

 

But in fact the evolution scheme is so robust it can and should also be applied to the psyche and thoughts do actually follow evolutionary principles of evolving knowledge (truth about existence). So the process is similar in both genetic and synaptic form. And so theory of evolution as a theory will have to survive challenges posed to it and it is doing rather well so is showing to be true.

 

 

 

 


Edited by addx, 13 March 2015 - 11:28 PM.


#1031 shadowhawk

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 11:31 PM

:-D   It can be that something that does not exist is true.  However she was talking about the liars paradox which you didn't understand her application.  Does a lie exist? If so it is not true.



#1032 addx

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 11:54 PM

:-D   It can be that something that does not exist is true.  However she was talking about the liars paradox which you didn't understand her application.  Does a lie exist? If so it is not true.

 

I understood her well and explained that the liars paradox is not applicable to evolution because of her semantic stunt of separating selection from "truth finding" to make evolution into a "liar".

 

Selection IS truth finding.

 

What a stupid book, the basic premise is completely invalid and opposite of the truth, it's ridiculous.. It's very similar to your abuse of Goedels theorem.

 

It constantly abuses the term "selection". 

 

Evolution (mechanisms) generate variety (of genes or ideas), not "selection" as it says in the book (it says: natural selection creates many false ideas in the head). Amongst the variety there is much of that which can't exist, but is generated in a "stupid way". Selection is performed on the variety, it finds the truth which can exist, by testing it against the world - thus proving it in reality beyond all doubt as true. 

 


Edited by addx, 14 March 2015 - 12:09 AM.


#1033 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 01:28 AM

I see you don't understand evolution whose method is aimed at survivability not truth.  I don't think you got it at all.


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#1034 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 01:43 AM

PEER REVIEW:

 

http://intelligentde...T17_23_21-07_00

 

 



#1035 addx

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:37 AM

I see you don't understand evolution whose method is aimed at survivability not truth.  I don't think you got it at all.


You're a daft idiot.

"Surviving" means becoming the "truth of existence". So selection means "finding the truth of existence".
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#1036 addx

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:46 AM

PEER REVIEW:
 
http://intelligentde...T17_23_21-07_00



Yes it is peer reviewed but it doesn't support I.D.
 

Adaptive evolution can cause a species to
gain, lose, or modify a function. Therefore, it
is of basic interest to determine whether any
of these modes dominates the evolutionary
process under particular circumstances. The
results of decades of experi-mental laboratory
evolution studies strongly suggest that,
at the molecular level, loss-of-FCT and diminishing
modification-of-function adaptive
mutations predominate. In retrospect, this
conclusion is readily understandable from
our knowledge of the structure of genetic
systems, and is concisely summarized by the
first rule of adaptive evolution. Evolution has
myriad facets, and this one is worthy of some
notice.


Evolutionary genetics have always claimed that most mutations do not cause a gain of function (which is in fact admitted in the above quote), but not all. This study simply confirms evolutionary genetics. It doesn't support I.D.

Edited by addx, 14 March 2015 - 09:47 AM.

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#1037 Antonio2014

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:50 AM

Identify which journals one has to publish in to be legitimate science and when this became a part of science. Has every scientific advancement been published in these journals?  You didn't even look at what I showed you.  I suspect this has nothing to do with science.  Why don't I hear you dealing with the real issues of ID.
 

 

Time is finite, and mine is very scarce. If ID were a science, certainly they could publish in a real scientific journal.



#1038 platypus

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 02:12 PM

Still nobody has managed to name a single influential paper on ID or creationism, I wonder why...  :)



#1039 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:12 PM

 

I see you don't understand evolution whose method is aimed at survivability not truth.  I don't think you got it at all.


You're a daft idiot.

"Surviving" means becoming the "truth of existence". So selection means "finding the truth of existence".

 

Sorry, when you have no argument and cant relate to what is being said you have to call names something you have done for a long time.  Evolution is not interested in truth but survivability.  Can you see the difference?  As long as you survive, truth doesn't matter.  Evolution is not about truth.


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#1040 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:18 PM

 

PEER REVIEW:
 
http://intelligentde...T17_23_21-07_00



Yes it is peer reviewed but it doesn't support I.D.
 

Adaptive evolution can cause a species to
gain, lose, or modify a function. Therefore, it
is of basic interest to determine whether any
of these modes dominates the evolutionary
process under particular circumstances. The
results of decades of experi-mental laboratory
evolution studies strongly suggest that,
at the molecular level, loss-of-FCT and diminishing
modification-of-function adaptive
mutations predominate. In retrospect, this
conclusion is readily understandable from
our knowledge of the structure of genetic
systems, and is concisely summarized by the
first rule of adaptive evolution. Evolution has
myriad facets, and this one is worthy of some
notice.


Evolutionary genetics have always claimed that most mutations do not cause a gain of function (which is in fact admitted in the above quote), but not all. This study simply confirms evolutionary genetics. It doesn't support I.D.

 

This was done by one of the fathers of ID.  Obviously you haven't a clue of what ID is.  The paper is about the limitations of mutations to explain the vast amounts of informaation needed to explain life as we find it.  It does support ID


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#1041 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:24 PM

 

Identify which journals one has to publish in to be legitimate science and when this became a part of science. Has every scientific advancement been published in these journals?  You didn't even look at what I showed you.  I suspect this has nothing to do with science.  Why don't I hear you dealing with the real issues of ID.
 

 

Time is finite, and mine is very scarce. If ID were a science, certainly they could publish in a real scientific journal.

 

Well, this is not a requirement for science but they do.  You are going to have to spend enough time to at least look at the sources to not remain ignorant of the issues.  Many sources have been cited in this thread.



#1042 shadowhawk

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 09:29 PM

Still nobody has managed to name a single influential paper on ID or creationism, I wonder why...  :)

What does this statement mean.  ID is not creationism as you have been told over and again.  However when someone talks about creation, you dismiss it as not being scientific.  I would like to hear the discussion go on.  Brianjakub  http://www.longecity...-35#entry718664


Edited by shadowhawk, 14 March 2015 - 09:32 PM.


#1043 addx

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:48 PM

 

 

I see you don't understand evolution whose method is aimed at survivability not truth.  I don't think you got it at all.


You're a daft idiot.

"Surviving" means becoming the "truth of existence". So selection means "finding the truth of existence".

 

Sorry, when you have no argument and cant relate to what is being said you have to call names something you have done for a long time.  Evolution is not interested in truth but survivability.  Can you see the difference?  As long as you survive, truth doesn't matter.  Evolution is not about truth.

 

 

There's no real "truth" other than the truth of surviving. 

 

Every other truth is "agreed upon" and so potentially a lie. 

 

This is why you want people to "agree" that I.D. is science. That's all it takes for you to consider it true. 

 

Furthermore, you don't speak for evolution, you can't claim what it is "interested in", you can't even begin to understand it. 



#1044 addx

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Posted 14 March 2015 - 10:55 PM

 

 

PEER REVIEW:
 
http://intelligentde...T17_23_21-07_00



Yes it is peer reviewed but it doesn't support I.D.
 

Adaptive evolution can cause a species to
gain, lose, or modify a function. Therefore, it
is of basic interest to determine whether any
of these modes dominates the evolutionary
process under particular circumstances. The
results of decades of experi-mental laboratory
evolution studies strongly suggest that,
at the molecular level, loss-of-FCT and diminishing
modification-of-function adaptive
mutations predominate. In retrospect, this
conclusion is readily understandable from
our knowledge of the structure of genetic
systems, and is concisely summarized by the
first rule of adaptive evolution. Evolution has
myriad facets, and this one is worthy of some
notice.


Evolutionary genetics have always claimed that most mutations do not cause a gain of function (which is in fact admitted in the above quote), but not all. This study simply confirms evolutionary genetics. It doesn't support I.D.

 

This was done by one of the fathers of ID.  Obviously you haven't a clue of what ID is.  The paper is about the limitations of mutations to explain the vast amounts of informaation needed to explain life as we find it.  It does support ID

 

 

Can you read and understand this quote from your study

 

"In retrospect, this

conclusion is readily understandable from
our knowledge of the structure of genetic
systems, "

 

This literally means that they have confirmed existing knowledge of genetics - which supports evolution. 

 

The paper tries to stress that gain of function is rare, but in order for it to actually overthrow evolution it would have to prove that gain of function mutation never happen. Which it did not accomplish or even try. The paper was cleverly written to seem as if it supports I.D. but officially, as the quote above clearly shows, it does not contradict existing knowledge - which is why it got peer reviewed. 

 

So, if it doesn't contradict the current evolutionary "dogma", how is it supportive od I.D.????

 

Anyway, we're done talking about this. Nothing more to say about it. If you can't see it, you're an idiot. I will not explain in any more different ways.


Edited by addx, 14 March 2015 - 10:55 PM.

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#1045 shadowhawk

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 12:03 AM

Gain of function mutation does not have the power to explain the amount of information necessary to account for life as we see it.  Evolution has to explain new information by mutation and then it is selected for by natural selection.  No one denies natural selection and it has never been in dispute.  Where the issue is, is in mutation having the creative power to drive evolution,  Obviously you don't have a clue what ID is and all you can do is call names and run away..


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#1046 addx

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 09:46 AM

Gain of function mutation does not have the power to explain the amount of information necessary to account for life as we see it.  

 

And we're back to just your ignorant opinion which has no peer reviewed study towards it and is not science.

 

I.D. is out.

 

Someone close the thread.


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#1047 platypus

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Posted 15 March 2015 - 11:12 AM

Gain of function mutation does not have the power to explain the amount of information necessary to account for life as we see it.  Evolution has to explain new information by mutation and then it is selected for by natural selection.  No one denies natural selection and it has never been in dispute.  Where the issue is, is in mutation having the creative power to drive evolution,  Obviously you don't have a clue what ID is and all you can do is call names and run away..

You are making unsubstantiated claims without any references. What are the most cited papers on ID? If there's just a handful of questionable uninfluential crap, ID is pseudoscience. 


Edited by platypus, 15 March 2015 - 11:33 AM.

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#1048 brianjakub

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 10:52 AM

Still nobody has managed to name a single influential paper on ID or creationism, I wonder why...  :)

.  Creative intelligence cannot be explained by a naturalist today.  What is it in a man's brain that allows us to improve and engineer complex machines and discuss our existence in language in forums with language while no other species can, so far hasn't been explained by science except that our brains are different because we evolved further.  For that statement to be true and happen by chance something had to happen that when looked at statistically had a very slim if not almost impossible chance of happening.  In spite of the long odds, this theory is accepted as possible and argued as the only worth testing by some, because it only uses mechanisms present in nature. (whether we actually observed these mechanisms accomplishing it or not.)

 

Because, ID by nature is making an assumption that there is a mechanism that might not be explained by natural causes, it is not accepted as scientific by naturalists.  They will not peer review it in their publications, because they and their peers defined all causes that cannot be explained by a natural mechanism, are not worthy of review.  Maybe if further research was done science might find the designer is part of nature and is natural.  Maybe they will find evidence the designer is outside of nature and can manipulate and build a quark or an atom like a man assembling an airplane.  

 

If we leave it up to naturalists, and some sort of ID is the truth we will never know.  They don't want science to contemplate it, and then search for evidence.  I wonder why...:-)

 

I will continue posting my hypothesis, i am really busy right now  


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#1049 platypus

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:23 AM

It is more and more clear that ID is not a science. Let's not pretend it's a science and close this thread up please..


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#1050 addx

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Posted 16 March 2015 - 11:24 AM

Because, ID by nature is making an assumption that there is a mechanism that might not be explained by natural causes, it is not accepted as scientific by naturalists.  They will not peer review it in their publications, because they and their peers defined all causes that cannot be explained by a natural mechanism, are not worthy of review.


Exactly. They are not worthy the paper they're written on. Any theory can use "supernaturality" to explain stuff. How is yours better than mine? If I say that the world was created by 3 happy unicorns that will buttfuck us with their horns when we die if we don't treat horses and other animals nice, how do we compare? We let people read our unnatural stories and see which gets liked better?


You can victimize it all day long: "Booohooo, scientists wont read my makebelieve stories, boohoo"

When the world listened to religious stories and obeyed - we had witch burning, plundering of supposed heretics and various exorcisms and the world was flat and the sun was revolving around the earth.

And we've had enough. Time for this insanity to become extinct.

If anything, exorcisms should be performed on idiots who are stubborn in their intent to learn and teach physics and biology from holy scriptures.

Edited by addx, 16 March 2015 - 11:26 AM.

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