117 replies to this topic

[machete234]

Id like to add that Phenibut and a low dose of Piracetam seems to work well, I took 1,5g of Phenibut and 400-800mg of Piracetam which gives it a bit more clarity.
This time it was very euphoric for me again and I cant really imagine being productive on that, I stared at myself in the mirror grinning for 15minutes.

Also I took it 2 days in a row without any problems when not taking it the days after.

[waitwhatthe]

Oh, yes.. and right now I took another 1.5 mg bromazepam with 10 mg propranolol. I'm just curious about the reaction. I'm trying to kill my emotions completely. This will be all for today, and I will have one week break before the event where I want to test all this stuff once again in a real situation. S far I'm completely OK and I cannot feel that some of my skills (speech, typing, walking... ) or anything is not under my full control. I feel like I would be able to play football without any problems

Dude, you sound just like me. I have (had now) a problem with making calls and was looking for each and every thing I could that might help in the past three months. Everything I took only helped to take a little bit of the edge off, but never quite enough.

What I did that finally began helping was take the path of least resistance first and make stupid calls. I'd call and hang up and do it over and over. Then I'd begin calling any business to ask even the most unimportant question (what are your hours, etc) and then I built up to making the business calls and everything else. It's still hard as hell, but the drugs just help some. When you've got something the mind sees as that important and "life or death" no drug is going to change that.

I'd suggest you begin speaking up and telling stories in groups you're comfortable with (family, close friends) and then move up to people you're slightly less comfortable with and keep moving up the difficulty little by little. Learn to enjoy all eyes on you and thrive as the center of attention. Don't be afraid of a little discomfort. I used to hate speaking up in groups and now I love being that guy telling all the stories and that's really how I did it. I've actually overcome about 4 crippling phobias like this. ..I think that's the basic idea of cbt too actually.

Also, don't be afraid to be a little nervous. It reminds you you're alive and makes you feel much better for having stood up in the face of that fear and gone through with it anyway. The drugs are nice but it feels way better to be terrified and tell your fear to f*ck off.

Edited by waitwhatthe, 03 February 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[jerichodotm]

I posted this in another thread but it's very relevant to this one...


---

Be very careful with Phenibut. A few years ago I found out about it and started taking it w/o reading the directions (smart, eh?) for 2 weeks and felt pretty good; not high or anything but I could notice my anxiety was down a few notches. Eventually I went online to read more about it because it did help with anxiety and that's when I realized I should take 2-3 days on then 1-2 days off. I figured it wasn't a big deal and decided not to take it for the next few days. BIG MISTAKE! That was absolute hell. It gave me major panic attacks, vomiting restlessness, etc. etc. After 2 days of feeling horrible I decided to go back on it and try and ween myself off of it. That made the things about 75% better but I still didn't feel pleasant for the next couple of weeks as I got off of it.

A couple more weeks go by and I decide that I'll do things correctly this time. I was on and off of it for a couple of months before finally getting off of it completely and throwing my extra bottles away. I couldn't handle the swings in my mental and physical health. I now know people who use it religiously as directed on the bottle w/ no problems. I also know others who have fallen into the Phenibut back hole and ended up in the hospital.

Basically, if you have even a slightly addictive personality I would recommend trying something else.

Good luck...

[Andrey_81]

Thank you guys for help and really good advices. I understand that I need to 'work' on myself but sometimes it's very hard and I need something extra :(

So this is another phenibut update... Yesterday before bed at 11:00 I took 1000 mg (after one week break) and again 1000 mg at 6:00 in the morning. I feel quiet well. A little bit disoriented, like I'm drunk, but again, my talking skills are much better and I'm not anxious. Again I took 500 mg of ashwagandha at 9:00 and from that time I feel much better and even less anxious and more confident.

I decided to take 1000 mg before bed, and again 1000 mg in the morning and I will continue with this until Wednesday morning. On Wednesday at 9:00 I will have this presentation that scares me. So this will be three days of phenibut in a row in dosage of 2000 mg per day. This way, I will stay calm until the day of presentation. After that I will stop completely or I will use it once in few months.

Based on my small phenibut experience (this is my third time I tried it), I can say that I feel much better on the second day, and not on the day when I take it. So, tomorrow I can expect even better mood and even more confidence and calmness. I hope that this feeling will be even better on third day, will see.

If something will go wrong on Wednesday, I can take always take bromazepam and propranolol, just in case.

[Galaxyshock]

I had the same reaction initially that it was best taken the night before. The next whole day would be absolutely anxiety-free nice euphoria and energy. And that's when things start to go bad. After only like 5 times of use even with breaks of week, first the "day after the next day" turns to restless depression-filled shit that can easily continue a week. Then the afterglow from the dose (I'd say after 10-15 times of use) starts to diminish and you find only the initial effects pleasant until you can no longer function without it. When you try to cease you're filled with dooming depression and what feels like "primal" anxiety beyond anything. My advice? Shove it down the toilet or only leave enough for emergency use. A 100 gram bulk powder in the closet will eat your life... The habit forming nature of phenibut is insanely tricky.

Gotu Kola should be a lot safer and yet effective anxiolytic because its GABAergic effect is more subtle and it also modulates Cholekystokinin (responsible for triggering panic). Bacopa and theanine are something to consider too.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 04 February 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[machete234]

You definately should have enough to calm you down and these things are never even half as bad in reality as I imagine them before hand.
Its more like 10% of the stress where really justified
When a presentation like that is over I always think "I was stressing out about THAT?" but the relief is always great.

[Andrey_81]

My advice? Shove it down the toilet or only leave enough for emergency use...

This is what I'm planing to. This will for sure stay my emergency remedy and after Wednesday I will stay away from it.

[Andrey_81]

Bacopa and theanine are something to consider too.

Tried both.. but nothing helped :( Ashwagandha is the only thing that helps and it changed my life. I cannot function without it. Not sure is is due to its GABA or thyroid benefits, but I know that all this anxiety and changes in the mood could be due to the thyroid problems. But for some situations (like the one in front of me) I cannot rely on herb and need something stronger like phenibut, propranolol or bromazepam (or all this stuff). This 'situational' panic is killing me. I'm completely normal, happy, talkative and positive person. No one would ever say that I have this problems...

[Andrey_81]

What do you guys think about taking 1000 mg before bed and again 1000 mg in the morning (for three days). Is it better to take 2000 mg at once or to split this dosage in two parts like I'm planning to do for the next two days. Is this too much in one day and can this be dangerous? Is it better to take 1000 only before bed? Or could be better to take 1500 mg on empty stomack?? Not surre... Too many questions.

According to this:
http://www.phenibutf...cialanxiety.php
...i should take at least 1500 mg for social events and for social anxiety but I understand that I should take it 2-3 hours befor the event so maybe I'm doing wrong taking it before bed and 3 days befor the event that scares me.

Do you see benefits from taking in 3 days in a row or is better to use it only when needed? I'm not thinking about tolerance or addiction, this is clear, the more you take and if you take it too often is bad. I'm thinking...how to take it for three days in order to get the most possible benefits. Maybe 1000 mg before bed and 1500 mg in the morning??

Edited by Andrey_81, 04 February 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[ironfistx]

No one here is going to recommend taking Phenibut for three days in a row.

[jerichodotm]

Anything more than 2 days and you are opening yourself to very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. After my experience with it even taking it once scares the crap out of me. Hopefully that give you an idea of how unpleasant the withdrawal is.

[Andrey_81]

Ok, this is my second day on phenibut and I feel even better than yesterday. I decided to quit taking it before bed, because I could still feel the effect from my morning dose. This morning at 8:00 took another 1000 mg, but this time with coffee. This was my first coffee after a year so I can really feel the benefits of caffeine. Caffeine gives me more confidence, turns me into a very talkative person, and in combination with phenibut I'm calm and anxious free.

For tomorrow morning, I'm planing to take 1500 mg of phenibut with one red bull. I will for sure get wings, but anxious free wings. If I will start to have problems with heartbeat, I will take propranolol to calm myself down.

Tomorrow will be my last day on phenibut, I hope that I will not experience any withdrawal symptoms. Last time I took it it was 2 days in a row and I didn't experience any bad symptoms. I even felt better through the whole week.

Conclusion. It's much better to take phenibut with caffeine! This way your will be completely alerted, focused and talkative, but fearless, calm and completely confident. I'm looking forward to the same benefits tomorrow morning

Edited by Andrey_81, 05 February 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Adaptogen]

what kind of anxiety do you have, that phenibut is the most effective treatment?

nevermind, i reread the beginning of this thread. But I think there are better options to treating situational panic attacks. Certainly things that would be more suitable in the long term.

Gotu kola is supposed to be a very effective anxiolytic, directly inhibiting the panic response, but i also saw you dismissing herbs as not being effective enough

Edited by Adaptogen, 05 February 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Andrey_81]

what kind of anxiety do you have, that phenibut is the most effective treatment?

I have situational panic and feel anxious when I'm in front of 'important' people like directors of the company. It's very hard for me to speak in their presence or to present something while in front of many people. The thing that scares me the most is waiting for my turn. My heart starts to beet like crazy, and i fell like I will not be able to talk. I even have this felling like I will start to cry (??). It it such a strong feeling that I'm not able to control it. My body reactions are out of my control. In everyday situations I'm completely normal person, happy, talkative and optimistic. My mom is bi-polar and she had big problems in the past, so it seems that I have bad genes...She is also very happy and positive personality, but when it comes to public speech, she gets scared and she has the same symptoms like me. This genetic is freaking hell.

Edited by Andrey_81, 05 February 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Haha, I have a very similar reaction. In classes, even something as silly as waiting for my turn to introduce myself will send my heart racing. Same goes for if a teacher is randomly calling on students, just the possibility of being called on to answer a question can do me in. I have no experience with beta blockers, but is propanolol not effective before giving your presentations?

You might benefit from supplementing with lithium. A lot of people here have had good experiences with it, in low doses it is neuroprotective and in high doses it is used to treat bipolar disorder. I have just started taking it nightly, so it is hard to say much one way or the other, but today my anxiety was pretty manageable.

a lot of magnesium is also more effective than one might think, it really seems to help relieve the physical tension in my body(along with taurine)

[Galaxyshock]

Conclusion. It's much better to take phenibut with caffeine! This way your will be completely alerted, focused and talkative, but fearless, calm and completely confident. I'm looking forward to the same benefits tomorrow morning

I know that feeling, in fact it was Phenibut + Jack3d (caffeine, 1,3-dimethylamylamine, huperzine A) that was one of the most powerful combinations I've ever experienced. Absolute fearless confidence, sharpest and the most alert mind to take down any task. I was relentless unstoppable force in any setting. As an upper-downer nootropic combination it's like (caffeine + theanine) ^10. Caffeine could prevent some of the GABA downregulation from Phenibut but I wouldn't count on that.

I still recommend to try Gotu Kola if you haven't yet. It's has different feel to it and can in fact prevent the very panic response through CCK-inhibition. I think Gotu Kola also has some GABA-b affinity but not nearly as harsh as Phenibut. The GABAergic effect most likely comes from stimulation of Glutamate decarboxylase. It has no real side effects or withdrawal.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 05 February 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Andrey_81]

Just to add... at 11:00 I took 20 mg of propranolol and 1.5 mg of bromazepam (lexaurine). After that, confidence is even on higher level and I'm even more calm and relaxed. Heartbeat is not noticeable, stopped sweating but I'm still focused with zero negative side effects. OK, I can feel that my body moves are a little bit slower, but nothing to worry about. Completely fearless and I have this feeling that 'I don't give a damn'. This is exactly what I wanted to achieve so this could be a good combo for future 'extra' situations that occur once in a 2-3 months.

Phenibut in combination with caffeine, propranolol and benzo (bromazepam) works like nothing I experienced before. These are not some special high and dangerous doses, and they work together without any noticeable side effects. Worth trying but only once a month or even less.

Had one meeting at 10:00 with many people. Usually, I stay quiets, but this time I was the one who was talking all the time, shared my opinion and asked many questions and had many discussions without any problems. I was extremely talkative.

Later, after I took propranolol and bromazepam had lunch with my colleagues. Again, I was the one who was talking all the time and I made many jokes and had some discussion with others without losing the control. Fully confident, even to much confident that I sad something that I would never say without all this stuff. Amazing feeling.

Edited by Andrey_81, 05 February 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[Andrey_81]

...at 1 o'clock experienced some brain for, and some speech difficulties. Nothing special but I took 500 mg of ashwagandha extract and in 5 minutes all back to normal, no brain fog and no speech problems. But I can feel that I'm not that calm as in the morning and I started to sweat more (it's too hot in the office). Something that I took is probably losing its power...

[Andrey_81]

I remember that once I found on one forum that ashwagandha can help with phenibut withdrawal. This could be the reason that I never had any withdrawal symptoms because I was always taking ashwagandha with phenibut, but on the other hand, I never took to much during long period. Who knows, but I'm sure that ashwagandha is one of the best nootropics available.

Can someone share experience with Aniracetam, Noopept or Pramiracetam? Is the effect similar to phenibut and can this be helpful with public speech, anxiety and fear. I can google, but here I have phenibut users who can compare this stuff with phenibut.

Thnx!

Edited by Andrey_81, 05 February 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[ironfistx]

...at 1 o'clock experienced some brain for, and some speech difficulties. Nothing special but I took 500 mg of ashwagandha extract and in 5 minutes all back to normal, no brain fog and no speech problems. But I can feel that I'm not that calm as in the morning and I started to sweat more (it's too hot in the office). Something that I took is probably losing its power...

Ashwaganda kicked in in 5 minutes? Are you sure it's not placebo?

[Andrey_81]

Ashwaganda kicked in in 5 minutes? Are you sure it's not placebo?

Believe me, it's not. For some reason (don't know why) ashwagandha works really well for me, and in just a few minutes. I opened one topic related to ashwagandha and all the benefits I'm getting from it. It's just amazing. Tried all kids of stuff, so it's not placebo and I have the same effect for the past 10-11 months.

[nupi]

Unless you are snorting it, I have a rather hard time believing it would be absorbed that quickly

[Andrey_81]

Unless you are snorting it, I have a rather hard time believing it would be absorbed that quickly

I always open the capsule and shake out the content on my tongue. Like this it works in few minutes. This works for me and I'm also curious why it works so fast.

[nupi]

Well it is water-soluble so maybe this is akin to sub-lingual use. I should try that

[Andrey_81]

Today will be my third day on phenibut. This morning I don't feel that 'afterglow' I used to feel on the second day, and this is the proof that two days in a row is the best way to take it. I am calm but it's nothing in comparison to second day (morning after the day I took it for the first time). If I will ever use it again, it will be two days in a row, the day before some event, and on the day of the even. This should work the best. However, last night I slept better than ever in my life even though I took phenibut with strong coffee and I was quite high all day.

The one thing that I've started to notice is ear ringing. This started two months ago and I'm sure it's related to long time use of ashwagandha (more than 10 months). Now, when I'm on phenibut I can 'hear' this rear ringing even more, especially when I wake up but I can also notice this before bed, when I'm in a quiet room. I found the following: Increasing the levels of GABA stops ringing in the ears. The deficiency in GABA worsens tinnitus (ear ringing) and by extension leads to stress, emotional difficulty, depression, anxiety and fear.

After all this phenibut and ashwagandha I'm planing to make a long break from all this stuff....Maybe this ear ringing will stop.

[Andrey_81]

Finally, my presentation is over! Everything was great! In total, I took 2000 mg of phenibut spitted in two parts, 1000 mg in the morning at 8:00 (with red bull) and again 1000 mg at 10:30 with 30 mg of propranolol, 3 mg of bromazepam and 500 mg of ashwagandha. I was really calm and the most important, my heart didn't race while I was waiting for my turn. I was completely confident, but when I realized that my turn is getting closer, I had some strange feeling in my stomach, like butterflies. When I started to speak I was a little bit under stress, but nobody could notice anything on my voice, and my voice was loud and I was not sneaking.

Al above is due to the synergy of phenibut (which made me calm and fearless), propranolol (which made stopped my crazy heartbeat)., bromazemopam (anxiety and fear), and ashwagandha (focus, confidence, anti brain fog). Oh yes... and red bull (speech ability, talkative, alertness, focus). Amazing mix

At 3:00 i become sleepy (strange, yesterday I took one morning coffee and I was full of energy whole day). Today even though I took red bull in the morning I'm completely exhausted and need some sleep. I took another 500 mg of ashwagandha at all was beeter in 5 mintes.

Hmm. It really seems that this ashwagadha can be used to avoid phenibut withdrawal, and I will continue to use it. I confirm, I took phenibut last sunday before bed, and the last dosage I took today (2000). Zero side effects. All perfectly normal and I feel better than ever. Every morning I get up without any problems. Will see how will I be without phenibut (but on ashwagandha).

For me, phenibut seem as an amazin rescue remedy for some 'planed' situations and is better if taken 2 days in a row (not three or more). It's even better to take it day before some event, and then again on the day of event together with coffee. All above 2 days is too much and the feeling is not the same.

Now in front of me is the time to 'clean' myself from phenibut. I hope that my future experience with phenbut will also be this successful. I can also confirm that propranolol and bromazepam are not really needed to be mixed. Phenibut itself is strong enough, but you need to have right timing and take it at least 2 days for maximum benefits.

[Andrey_81]

Is phenibut - phenibut, no matter which brand you buy? If no, which brand you like the most? Thank you!

[ironfistx]

I have read on forums that people using the capsules seem to need less than people using the powder.

Now is that because they're different brands and perhaps have different quality control? I don't know.

[machete234]

I only know the brand that mindnutrition sells and they come in 500mg capsules and it works well 1,5g after a period of longer abstinence is strong for me even though I played around with benzos and GHB last summer.
(Meaning I shouldnt exactly have virgin GABA receptors)

Edited by machete234, 06 February 2013 - 08:30 PM.

[Andrey_81]

Today...without phenibut I just want to sleep.. Can't wait to finish this day and go to bed. However, I'm completely calm, anxious free and confident...but easy going.. If this is sleepiness is related to phenibut withdrawal I can say it's nothing bad.

Btw... is the effect of Noopept similar to Phenibut? If somebody tried both, please share your experience. Phenibut + Noopept seems interesting to me (funny, both are from russia)