117 replies to this topic

[Andrey_81]

...slept well with vivid dream, but I wasn't able to remember my dreams when I woke up. I also have a mild headache and it's ringing in my ears. My dog woke me at 3:00 during deep sleep. It was hard to fall a sleep again. I can still feel the benefits of phenibut. I cannot imagine that somebody can take 2 or 3g since 750 mg is so powerfull.

I will stay clean from phenibut for the next two weeks and then I will try 1000 mg on empty stomach, 5mg of propranolol and 250 mg of ashwagandha after 5 hours. Still not sure what to expect.

[Andrey_81]

Another Phenibut update...at 9:00 had my language lessons (Spanish ). My brain worked like never before and I was completely calm and focused in the same time. My speech and reading ability improved. It seems that phenibut works better (in terms of learning and working) the day after, 24 hours after I took it (!!).

Had one meeting at 12:00 and felt little bit nervous 10 minutes before it started. I thought that phenibut is loosing it's power because I felt like I have no confidence like in the morning. I decided to take 250 mg of ashwganadha, just to see what will happen. Almost in 5 minutes I felt that something is happening, I felt heat on my face and turned red. I thought that everybody on the meeting will notice. Then suddenly, after 10 minutes after I took ashwagandha everything changed in a perfect way. I become completely confident, with zero fear, completely calm. I had a perfect meeting. Now I feel even better than in the morning. Confident like never before in my life (honestly). I came in my office and started do chat with all my colleagues and make jokes. I rally feel great and full of positive energy.

It seems that ashwagadha works great with phenibut (next day). Not sure how it works when taken on the first day together with phenibut. This is something I will have to check. Phenibut makes me calm, and relaxed, but ashwagandha definitely gives me this boost of confidence and blocks possible panic, even at small doses (250 mg extract).

[Andrey_81]

One question for experinced phenibu users. If I plan to use phenibut for one special situation (presentation) is it better to take it on the day of the presentation, or maybe one day before and again on the day of presentation. It means two days in a row.

Thnx

[ironfistx]

Two days in a row is bad.

Twice a week is bad.

Twice a month may even be too much.

If you take it two days in a row you won't feel it as much the second day, either.

[Raza]

In my experience, two days in a row is fine - that's roughly the threshold dosing schedule for avoiding downsides from regular use.

And twice a week and twice a month are both snuggly within safe limits. Evidently, YMMV.


Anyway, going by your experience, I'd say either taking 750mgs the night before or a lower dose - 250-500mgs, maybe - before the event. Doing both would be overkill, unless you lower the dose a lot, especially if you're also taking Ashwagandha.

Edited by Raza, 11 January 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[machete234]

Fill up some 000 caps, they'll fit about 900mg stuffed and that's about the minimum dose for a clearly noticable effect

I have a noticable effect at 500mg allready it just needs 1h or 2h before I notice anything.
What makes this not so viable for a situational thing is that it can need several hours to peak also I think of it as more of a recreational high.
That means yes it will adress anxiety probably very well but it will also make you very euphoric at the same time.

EDIT: Didnt realize that this thread is older and that you tried it allready

When I think about it phenibut acts a little like a time release GHB and even though GHB is illegal (not justified at all especially because phenibut is legal) this could be a good choice for these situational or emergency things.
After 2 hours it wears of and you are not taking benzos this way

Edited by machete234, 11 January 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Andrey_81]

What makes this not so viable for a situational thing is that it can need several hours to peak also I think of it as more of a recreational high. That means yes it will adress anxiety probably very well but it will also make you very euphoric at the same time.

Well, I feel the effect after 1 hour, but it's better after 5 hours and much better after 10 hours. It's even better the other day. Knowing all this it is very easy to use it for situational panic because most of the thing that make a problem for me I know in advance.

For example... you know when you have important meetings, you know when you have to go on a business trip, you know when you will have a big party, you know when you will go out. If something of this makes you scared of there is a lack of confidence during these situations it' OK to take phenibut as a rescue remedy. Not on daily basis, and not every week, but 1-2 times a month could be OK.

[Andrey_81]

In my experience, two days in a row is fine - that's roughly the threshold dosing schedule for avoiding downsides from regular use.

And twice a week and twice a month are both snuggly within safe limits. Evidently, YMMV.


Anyway, going by your experience, I'd say either taking 750mgs the night before or a lower dose - 250-500mgs, maybe - before the event. Doing both would be overkill, unless you lower the dose a lot, especially if you're also taking Ashwagandha.

Raza, do you think that I can raise the dose up to 1000 mg (taken on empty stomach early in the morning)? I have good experience with 750 mg, but can it be even better with 1000 mg? According to your experience, when taken, what time is needed to feel full effect of phenibut?

I know that it's not OK to mix phenibut with alcohol, but how it goes with other supplements?

Another important thing... If taken once a month, can I always feel the same effect?

Thnx

Edited by Andrey_81, 11 January 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[ironfistx]

After 2 hours it wears of and you are not taking benzos this way

Phenibut lasted for me for at least 6-8 hours after it kicked in, but took 2-3 hours to kick in.

Also, here's a thread about someone trying to quit phenibut:

http://www.mindandmu...enibut-casualty

[Andrey_81]

After 2 hours it wears of and you are not taking benzos this way

Phenibut lasted for me for at least 6-8 hours after it kicked in, but took 2-3 hours to kick in.

Also, here's a thread about someone trying to quit phenibut:

http://www.mindandmu...enibut-casualty

I read that story.... I doesn't surprise considering that his usual dose was 3 g (!!!), and later lowered to 2 g which is also high dose.
He sad that he managed to have 2 days brake. If you ask me, this is completely wrong way of taking phenibut and you can find hundreds of similar users with negative experience, withdrawal of addictions, all because of the unreasonable high doses.

I started this topic with only one goal... To find out if phenibut if perfect for once in a month use, and if yes, how to take, when to take it and with what.

[Simen]

I suspect there is a healthy amount of placebo effect going on in this thread. Which is not meant as an insult: whatever works for you works, and on the whole it is probably best to take as little as possible for the desired effects. But having read hundreds, possibly thousands of reports of phenibut use online, in addition to my personal experience, I'd say the guys who are getting "strong effects" from 500 mg are really in the minority. The norm seems to be at least 1.5-2 g for serious anxiolysis. Personally, I've found that I need at least 1.5 g for threshold effects, and 2-2.5 g for optimum effects without unpleasant side effects.

Dose may be dependent on potency and brand, but given the consistency of the reports across different brands, I'm inclined to think not. While it is somewhat plausible that some people would be more sensitive to this stuff than others, and so get stronger effects at low doses, I'm absolutely certain that those who report effects after 20 minutes are experiencing placebo. It's simply not plausible that some people would metabolize/transport the substance into the brain ten times as fast as the majority of people who report that it takes 3-4 hours to kick in.

[Simen]

<p>I suspect there is a healthy amount of placebo effect going on in this thread. Which is not meant as an insult: whatever works for you works, and on the whole it is probably best to take as little as possible for the desired effects. But having read hundreds, possibly thousands of reports of phenibut use

[ironfistx]

And those of us who got significant effects from 500mg think you guys bought some low quality stuff. I doubt a placebo effect would take 3 hours to kick in.

I agree with you that the people getting an effect after 20 minutes are experiencing a placebo.

FWIW I'm an ectomorph. Maybe that's why it only took 500mg for me to have a noticeable effect.

[Simen]

If you've heard that the drug takes 3 hours to have an effect, then yes, placebo could very well kick in after 3 hours. The human mind is amazingly good at self-deception. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with placebo. If through sheer belief I could get drunk on one beer, I'd save a lot of money and my liver would thank me for it, but unfortunately that ain't so. Homeopathic pills work for some people, too, and let me tell you, it isn't the non-existent active ingredient that's responsible. I just don't want anyone to get a false impression of this substance.

If you check out some threads on Bluelight or Drugs-Forum or Mind and Muscle or Erowid, you'll see that 500 mg is an uncommonly low dose, and this seems to hold true across many different brands and body types.

By the way, that stuff about "ectomorph" isn't taken seriously by actual physicians. If you mean to say you're skinny, well, I'm rather skinny too, and a relative lightweight when it comes to other gaba drugs like alcohol, so I very much doubt it's weight that's weighing me down (heh).

I don't mean to disparage anyone in this thread, I just want to offer a counterpoint based on both personal experience and research, just because the overwhelming majority in this thread seem to disagree with my own experience and, as far as I can tell, the experience of many other people who try this substance.

[Raza]

Fill up some 000 caps, they'll fit about 900mg stuffed and that's about the minimum dose for a clearly noticable effect

I have a noticable effect at 500mg allready it just needs 1h or 2h before I notice anything.
What makes this not so viable for a situational thing is that it can need several hours to peak also I think of it as more of a recreational high.
That means yes it will adress anxiety probably very well but it will also make you very euphoric at the same time.

EDIT: Didnt realize that this thread is older and that you tried it allready

When I think about it phenibut acts a little like a time release GHB and even though GHB is illegal (not justified at all especially because phenibut is legal) this could be a good choice for these situational or emergency things.
After 2 hours it wears of and you are not taking benzos this way

Phenibut is a nice anxiolytic adjunct for recreational activities, but I wouldn't call it a high. You loosen up, get more spontaneous and less anxious, but it's only going to improve your mood up to as much as the higher brain level second guessing you were doing to yourself was hurting it. Any euphoria you feel is going to be a by-contrast thing.

GHB works through the same GABA B receptor and has clear similarities, but is far more stimulating and euphoric because of its GHB receptor activation.

Raza, do you think that I can raise the dose up to 1000 mg (taken on empty stomach early in the morning)? I have good experience with 750 mg, but can it be even better with 1000 mg? According to your experience, when taken, what time is needed to feel full effect of phenibut?

I know that it's not OK to mix phenibut with alcohol, but how it goes with other supplements?

Another important thing... If taken once a month, can I always feel the same effect?

Thnx

You can definitely try a gram, 250 more mgs of this stuff isn't a scary change in dose. If you can function and do those presentations, long term improvement will come from natural increases in skill and confidence. Keep in mind though that while Phenibut isn't very sedating, it can make you thoughtless and careless if you take too much, so for work purposes I suggest you find the minimum effective dose for the level of anxiolysis you want and stick to that.

If you take it once a month you should definitely get good effects every time. And in my experience, from an empty stomach you'll feel it within the hour... not sure when it peaks exactly, so mind other people's experiences on that.

Edited by Raza, 14 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[machete234]

GHB works through the same GABA B receptor and has clear similarities, but is far more stimulating and euphoric because of its GHB receptor activation.

I see a lot of similarities and the only difference for me is the duration also because phenibut needs time its less intense but overall to say that phenibut is like a time release GHB seems ok for me.
Sure phenibut cannot work on the GHB receptors but on the GABA ones which GHB does too.

I dont find GHB that stimulating either that might be some association because its called liquid extasy which is nonsense imho.

And phenibut makes me euphoric too at dosages over 1,5g so for both drugs I would say they are a bit too euphoric to function normally

After 2 hours it wears of and you are not taking benzos this way

Phenibut lasted for me for at least 6-8 hours after it kicked in, but took 2-3 hours to kick in.

Also, here's a thread about someone trying to quit phenibut:

http://www.mindandmu...enibut-casualty

I was talking about the illegal drug GHB which works between 2 and 4 hours and which could be used as more of an emergency thing on short notice.

Edited by machete234, 14 January 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Raza]

It's not nonsense. GHB is both stimulating and relaxing, and there are a lot of possible mental states from which the stimulation is clearly noticable in the contrast with sobriety.

The dose/response curves for its stimulating and relaxing effects are different, though. At low to medium doses the relaxing aspect is dominant, and GHB does feel a lot like phenibut. At higher doses, the stimulation becomes more prominent until it reaches the edge of your tolerance, and taking more results in very unpleasant side effects. Right at the edge of that point, where the highest bearable amounts of excitation and relaxation are achieved side by side, the stuff is euphoric well beyond anything you can achieve with phenibut. It also has a whole bunch of measurable, objective effects that phenibut does not.

[nupi]

I was talking about the illegal drug GHB which works between 2 and 4 hours and which could be used as more of an emergency thing on short notice.

GHB is actually available on prescription in some countries. Google Xyrem. Possession without prescription is not recommended (in the US at least, in some parts of the world we have slightly more enlightened drug laws).

[Andrey_81]

Keep in mind though that while Phenibut isn't very sedating, it can make you thoughtless and careless if you take too much...

Thank you. This is exactly what I want to achieve. I would like to be careless when I will be called to present my part. I was looking for something that will 'kill' my emotions, and I thing Phenibut could be the right stuff. I will test it again this Monday during one meeting... 1000 mg in the morning + 500 mg of ashwagandha (30 minutes before event) + 5 mg of propranolol (30 minutes before). This mix could turn me into a fearless beast Will keep you informed.

[Raza]

If it's what you want, I won't object. Good luck!

I'll say though, that phenibut doesn't kill your emotions, it only changes the balance between upper-brain inhibition and lower-brain motivation in favor of the latter. Some unpleasant emotions - like rage - can escalate on it more quickly than they ordinarily would, should they come up.

[Nujabes]

Just from personal experience, phenibut lasts a really long time and is certainly not a good idea for quick panic relief. Also it takes about 2 hours to kick which would be a long wait for anyone. I guess you can try it out best of luck.

[Andrey_81]

Small update after second use...

Last monday, after two weeks of break, I tried phenibut for the second time in my life. I took 1000 mg on empty stomach at 6:00 together with 1600 mg of guarana and started to feel the
mild effect at 8:00. I had one meeting at 1:00 and I thought that phenibut will keep me anxious free but it wasn't like that. I felt nervous, and I was sweating like crazy. One hour before the meeting I took 500 mg of ashwagandha and 10 mg of propranolol to calm myself and it helped. Ashwaganhda gave me the confidence and propraolol calmed my heartbeat. But, I was not totally calm and I was not satisfied with the effect I had that day.

On Tuesday in the morning I took 1500 mg of phenibut and I felt better during whole day but I didn't have any stressful situation to try myself and to try phenibut.

On Wednesday I felt better then ever, from early morning until night. Much better than on Tuesday. I didn't take phenibut but I felt this afterglow and it was amazing feeling during whole day. I had one meeting with the customer and before the meeting I took 500 mg of ashwagandha, just in case. I was completely calm, fearless and confident. I felt like nothing can make me panic of nervous.

So, considering all above, it seems to me that for me phenibut works better on the second day, and the best on the third day after taking it. This 'afterglow' feeling is better than how I fell on the day when I take it. Is this normal?
It seems that 750 mg was OK for the first time, but for the second time I had to take 1500 mg to feel the same effect like the firs time I tried it. I'm planing to try 2000 mg nex time, and this will be my maximum.

For the presentation that is in front of me, I'm planing to take 2 days in a row phenibut in the dosage of 1500-2000 mg. I will take this 2 days before the presentation. On the day of the presentation I hope that I will feel the same 'afterglow' I felt last two times I took phenibut.

My question is, why is this afterglow feeling so good, and why do I feel better second or third day? Does it seems to you, experienced users, that my dosage was not big enough (1000-1500 mg).

Finally, is it safe to take phenibut together with bromazepam (lexaurine)???

Edited by Andrey_81, 25 January 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Adaptogen]

Something else you could also try: breathing exercises and bacopa. I have noticed that bacopa(and taurine for that matter) slow my respiratory rate comfortably, which in turn will reduce your panic symptoms.

and I had a lucid dream last night for the first time (because of bacopa)

[Nujabes]

I just see such little potential for phenibut as a situational panic attack drug to use. It takes too long to work, it lasts much too long for the average user to begin working, the potential for addiction is moderately high, it literally can fuck you up way too much to be functional or at least perform well for demanding jobs (both physically and mentally).For example I literally slept through my alarm on the two occasions I tried phenibut (~1.5g each time).

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that deep down the user likes the phenibut because it gives him/her a solid buzz that lasts all day. Everyone is different, especially in terms of their brain chemistry, however, for 99%+ of the population I see phenibut as being a rather useless drug for treating panic attacks.

[Andrey_81]

Latest update.. Yesterday before bed (at 22:30) I took 1000 mg of phenibut. Slept really well and in the morning at 5:30 felt like flying. Started to work from 7:00 and felt relaxed and calmed. Much better feeling that I used to have when I had phenibut early in the morning. So it seems to me that I will continue with phenibut, but only before bed if I want to be 'more confident' and relaxed next day.

However, at 9:00 I decided to make one test. I took another 500 mg of phenibut together with 3 mg of lexaurine (bromazepam) and 20 mg of propranolol. Felt extremely anxious free and totally relaxed. Even though I took 3 mg of bromazemap, I function completely normal, without and speech problems. Nobody can notice that I'm on something. E just speak more clearly, ant that is good.

At 10:00 I took 500 mg of ashwaganhda extract, just to see my reaction. So far so good. All this seems to me like a good combo and my rescue remedy for my future presentation. Is there something more I could ad, or is there something I should remove?

Tnank you so much!

Edited by Andrey_81, 30 January 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[nupi]

Phenibut, Benzo and Propanolol sure sounds like overkill to me...

[Andrey_81]

It could be overkill in higher doses and if used regularly. If used on special occasions and in normal doses, I think it's nothing dangerous.
Not sure if this is right, but it seems to me that bromazepam (even 1.5 mg) used to have bigger effect when taken without any other suplements (phenibut, propranolol, ashwagandha), but this combo I took is something worth trying because it keeps you relaxed, anxious free, confident, fearless but in the same time focused enough to be 'normal', to speak clearly and to think fast enough to make your work in a normal way. I remember when I used to take bromazepam (1.5 mg) that I had speech problems, I was dizzy and little bit disoriented. Today, even though I took 3 mg with other things, I'm totally under control.

Edited by Andrey_81, 30 January 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Andrey_81]

Oh, yes.. and right now I took another 1.5 mg bromazepam with 10 mg propranolol. I'm just curious about the reaction. I'm trying to kill my emotions completely. This will be all for today, and I will have one week break before the event where I want to test all this stuff once again in a real situation. S far I'm completely OK and I cannot feel that some of my skills (speech, typing, walking... ) or anything is not under my full control. I feel like I would be able to play football without any problems

Edited by Andrey_81, 30 January 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Nujabes]

You want to kill all your emotions completely?
It's called a noose.

Ok that was a bit uncalled for, I'm in a pissy mood. Sounds to me like you're self medicating too much. Is there something bothering you that you wish to discuss? Maybe an open forum isn't the place for it but you can always pm me.

[electricmonk500]

I'd like to second the guy who suggested bacopa, it's very good for anxiety if you take it with some regularity and is often taken along with ashwaganda. But I'd also like to second nupi, in suggesting that taking phenibut, a benzo and propanolol in a single day is not a good idea. Taking phenibut with a benzo could potentially be unwise because phenibut has similar effects to benzos and might increase the effects of the benzo more than you expect under certain circumstances (considering that the half-life of Bromazepam is relatively long at 12-20 hours). Also, there just isn't much research on the interactions of phenibut with benzos, so it is kind of unknown territory as well.

In addition, I noticed that the wiki entry for Bromazepam mentioned that "Cimetidine, fluvoxamine and propranolol causes a marked increase in the half-life of bromazepam leading to increased accumulation of bromazepam." Link

I understand that you didn't experience bad effects this first time you mixed them, but I think that, in general, it would be much safer to avoid taking any of these three drugs together.