35 replies to this topic

[John2009]

Hello everyone,

What is the best way to eat reasonably healthy on a budget ? Specifically, what foods will give me the most calories for my money ?

Thanks,
John

[tunt01]

think you need to look to eat for nutritional content over pure calories. you can buy a bag of unenriched white rice for nothing, but it's just empty calories. add a high quality multi-vitamin and you technically are getting calories + nutrition (although missing a lot of other factors like protein, fats).


I think probably the best nutritional content for the dollar is in some sort of legumes (beans) like lentils. Say 1.5 cup of lentils (cooked) plus 1 pound of collards (leafy greens). maybe add two ounces of salmon (wild caught alaskan, can be canned for less $$). and you are about 500 calories and a pretty strong meal nutritionally speaking.

talking about a $4-5 cost for a pretty good nutritional intake. not perfect by any means and could be better. but i would look at something like that as a starting point maybe.

[misterE]

I have to agree with prophets. Starches are the best way to eat healthy and save money. For me 3 baked potatoes provides 500 calories for only 90 cents. A 20lb sack of pinto beans (which lasts me a month or two) is only 12 dollars. White-rice is a very cheap staple. Oats, barley, lentils, popcorn and whole-grain pastas are also very cheap, yet highly nourishing foods. Unfortunately starches, save for the potatoes, don’t supply vitamin A or C. So you must buy some type of vegetable to go along side the starches. But buying starches in bulk, like a 50lb box of potatoes, 20lb bag of pinto-beans, rice, etc is a great way to save money, reduce environmental damage and prevent many diseases.

[OpenStrife]

Pasta is very inexpensive.

1 Box of Pasta/Noodles cost like $1 and will last 8 meals. 8 meals which will each contain about ~50-60 carbs.

Very Cheap.


On top of that, Protein Powder is also good.

At Walmart for about $11 you can get a contain of Protein Powder which will have ~25 servings of 25g of protein, which is a decent amount of protein.

So for barley 0.50 cents you've gotten a decent servings of Carbohydrates for energy, and a plentiful serving of protein. All you need now is to take care of your basic essential nutrients.

Most people will recommend a good multi-vitamin, but me personal I prefer to grow my own food. Not everyone has the resources to grow their own food, but if you do, learn to do it. It'll pay off.

Though living off Noodles, Protein Powder, and Multi-Vitamins is easily affordable, you may find yourself getting hungrier more often. As the protein powder is rapidly digested since it is a pure form. I've actually been living off this for a few months now and I am as healthy as can be. I run ~15 miles a week, keep my mind healthy & active and keep good hygiene. In this time I have yet to become sick, have had no health problems, and am constantly gaining muscle and mental power.

Just remember. No single meal plan can keep you healthy. The body AND the mind needs to be exercised.

Edited by OpenStrife, 13 October 2012 - 04:11 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

Pasta and protein powders are both pretty unhealthy IMHO.

[misterE]

Pasta and protein powders are both pretty unhealthy IMHO.

I think protein-powders need to be avoided for optimal longevity. But I think whole-grain pasta is an excellent food. It's low in fat and sugar, high in fiber, contains no cholesterol, and has an appropriate amount of healthful plant-protein and "clean burning" glucose. It's also quite high in vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients.

[OpenStrife]

Well how is healthy defined?

Protein Powder and Pasta aren't 'healthy' in the sense of the word. But they are not unhealthy either.

The protein powder is primarily providing the essential amino acids for muscle building and neurotransmitter abundance, but that's about it. The pasta is just for energy. Very minimal. Not unhealthy like a big 'ol chocolate donut though.

Hence why I said fruits/vegatables should be supplemented in or take enough vitamins to cover the wide range of nutrients not availible in Protein Powder & Pasta... To be honest, vegatables can be cheaper than vitamins for providing a wide-range of essential nutrients.

misterE, Pasta barley has any protein, at least not enough to sustain the body.... nor does it have any vitamins that I am aware of.

[1kgcoffee]

Pasta and protein powders are both pretty unhealthy IMHO.

I think protein-powders need to be avoided for optimal longevity. But I think whole-grain pasta is an excellent food. It's low in fat and sugar, high in fiber, contains no cholesterol, and has an appropriate amount of healthful plant-protein and "clean burning" glucose. It's also quite high in vitamins, minerals and phytonutrients.

The main issue is the large undigestible proteins (gluten/gliadins) contained in wheat. Starch is fine if you can handle it. Personally, I feel bloated after eating pasta.

[misterE]

According to Cron-O-Meter... whole-grain wheat-flour, which is what pasta is made of, has all of the protein and vitamins you would need except for vitamin-c. 1800 calories (about one pound of dried whole-grain pasta) has 72 grams of protein, and contrary to popular belief plant-protein contains all of the essential amino acids [1]. Humans only need about 20 grams minimum [2].

The reason why protein-powders should be avoided is because excessive consumption of amino acids is believed to accelerate the aging process [3-5].




[1] Proc Nutr Soc. 1999 May;58(2):249-60. The nutritional value of plant-based diets in relation to human amino acid and protein requirements. Millward DJ.

[2] Nutr Abst Rev. 1957;27:63l-47. The amino acid requirement of adult man. Rose W.

[3] Aging Cell. 2008 Oct;7(5):681-7. Long-term effects of calorie or protein restriction on serum IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 concentration in humans. Fontana L, Weiss EP, Villareal DT.

[4] Med Hypotheses. 2003 Jun;60(6):784-92. A low-fat, whole-food vegan diet, as well as other strategies that down-regulate IGF-I activity, may slow the human aging process. McCarty MF.

[5] Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Sep;78(3 Suppl):526S-532S. Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans? Singh PN, Sabaté J, Fraser GE.

[HaloTeK]

Quick question misterE. I know on paper how good glucose seems to be as a fuel, but what if the exact starches you mention are all heartburn causing, at least in me. Oats, wheat, beans, rice, wild rice all cause me heartburn (I still eat rice though). I could eat all the fat the beef/fish I want and never have the problem <---- and I don't think this is healthy in large quantities. I also don't want to be on PPIs.

[misterE]

Quick question misterE. I know on paper how good glucose seems to be as a fuel, but what if the exact starches you mention are all heartburn causing, at least in me. Oats, wheat, beans, rice, wild rice all cause me heartburn.

High-protein foods like meat are acidic in nature due to their high concentrations of sulfur containing amino-acids, which are metabolized into sulfuric-acid. I can't speak on why this happens to you. Plant-protein is much less acidic than animal-protein. My suggestion is to eat the starches paired with steamed vegetables and see how you react.

Edited by misterE, 23 October 2012 - 12:46 AM.

[HaloTeK]

Thanks for your response misterE,

I am just trying to point out that things are not just as simple as to tell people to eat a clean starch based diet.

Also, just because high protein foods are acidic in nature does not mean they will cause heartburn more than plant based food. <---- I think you'd be able to understand this.

It is very possible that stomach acids trying to digest high amounts of cellulose and plant material, which actually require a higher ph to digest vs meat -- could possible cause the indigestion and reflux.

Eating the starches with stemed vegetables may help to raise the PH, but still doesn't do much if your body isn't beaking down the starches effectively. It's even possible that certain types of populations don't have the required bacteria to help with the process.

I'm not going to argue that eating a diet lower in protein helps in life extention, but we need to understand that just telling people to eat starch foods isn't easy -- I didn't even talk about the dull headaches I get from a myraid of plant based starches. I wish i could find a starch more nutritious than white rice that I can eat that doesn't give me problems. Guess I have to keep looking.

Edited by HaloTeK, 23 October 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[misterE]

I wish i could find a starch more nutritious than white rice that I can eat that doesn't give me problems.

Why not just adopt "the rice diet"? The diet was created by Dr. Walter Kempner in the 1940's and 50's at Duke University and was shown to pretty much prevent and reverse the diseases associated with metabolic-syndrome. The diet consisted mainly of white-rice, fruits and sucrose! Dr. Kempner's focus was on eating a low-protein/low-sodium diet.

White-rice, was (and perhaps still is) the major dietary-staple in Asia, the part of the world with the best longevity!

Usually, the starches that are most tolerable are sweet-potatoes, russet-potatoes, rice, and beans.

Edited by misterE, 24 October 2012 - 11:48 PM.

[protoject]

buy higher-quality foods in bulk. Brown rice isn't really that much more expensive than white rice, and if you're buying 10kgs it will last you quite a while. Bang for buck. Oats was another good one. I think what's best is buying a bunch of healthy foods in bulk and mixing them together. for example fruit is really cheap, nuts can be pretty cheap if you buy them in bulk and it depends which nuts you buy, but you could mix those into an oatmeal for a great meal.

[protoject]

Hello everyone,

What is the best way to eat reasonably healthy on a budget ? Specifically, what foods will give me the most calories for my money ?

Thanks,
John

can you give us a figure or a range?

[Mind]

Clip coupons watch for sales and buy more veggies when they are cheap. You can buy bags of frozen veggies and then store them for a long time if need be. Don't eat grains. I know they are cheap, but gluten is kind-of toxic.

[misterE]

Don't eat grains.

Why? There is a ton of research showing the beneficial effects of whole-grains on human health; protecting against metabolic-syndrome and other related diseases. Plus the longest-lived populations eat diets high in grains and carbohydrates. Not to mention grains are one of the cheapest staples you can buy. They don't go bad for a really long time, are high in fiber (which is very important for health), are low in dioxins and other environmental contaminants and they are renewable and sustainable; helping the longevity of the planet, are all other important reasons to eat lots of whole-grains.

--Gluten may bother some people; if that is the case, just eat grains without gluten, like rice, oats, corn, or millet.

[1kgcoffee]

-The Romans, who had a diet based mainly on grains had a life expectancy of 30. There were other reasons for this, but grains were a large factor.
-Bones of early agrarian society show stunted growth compared to hunter gatherers of the same time.
-Most people have some sensitivity to Gluten/Gliadins, which set off an inflammatory response. Over the course of a lifetime, this can lead to the development of cancer, diabetes, arthritis...
-Modern grains are genetically engineered to contain more of the harmful type of hard-to-digest protein. GMO crops have also been shown to cause health problems in lab animals.
-Our genes are not optimized for a grain based diet. Most of the world has only eaten them in significant quantity for a couple thousand years, compared to our 1/4 million years as a species.

Grains can be tasty, but don't be misled into thinking that they are healthy.

[misterE]

Grains can be tasty, but don't be misled into thinking that they are healthy.

If grains aren’t healthy, why do the cultures that eat vegetarian-type diets high in whole-grains have the best longevity and least disease, like the 1 billion Chinese eating white-rice? Americans are eating fewer grains than they did 100 years ago, when we as a population were much healthier. The roman soldiers, the gladiators and other large ancient armies were all fueled by grains and starches, yet had short lifespans due to the dangers of the anciet world (battles, plaque, infection, food-poisoning, poor sanitation, etc.). Gladiators were even known as "the barley men" due to their diet of beans, barley and vegetables. What type of food allowed humanity to flourish? What did people eat on a daily basis before refrigerators? What type of food prevents and reverses atherosclerosis? Whole-grains of course!


If you don't think whole-grains are healthy, perhaps you should read the scientific-literature and see the overwhelming evidence there is to support the conclusion that whole-grains are indeed very healthy.

Edited by misterE, 26 October 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[Mind]

Vegetables are easily better than grains on a nutrient density per calorie basis. If you can't afford the superfoods - VEGETABLES - then I suppose you can trade down to some grains, it won't make a huge difference on the average human lifespan.

[misterE]

Vegetables are without a doubt extremely healthy and play a vital part in any longevity regimen, but unfortunately they don’t provide enough energy (calories) to live on exclusively. Fresh produce and especially organic-produce are also very costly. That is why grains play such an important role in my opinion. They don’t expire, they’re cheap, easy to buy in bulk, low in pesticides, protect against diseases, and are sustainable and earth friendly. They also have great macronutrient ratios: low-fat, low-sugar, low-sodium, no cholesterol, high in fiber, high in complex carbohydrates, high in phytonutrients etc.

[1kgcoffee]

Grains can be tasty, but don't be misled into thinking that they are healthy.

If grains aren’t healthy, why do the cultures that eat vegetarian-type diets high in whole-grains have the best longevity and least disease, like the 1 billion Chinese eating white-rice? Americans are eating fewer grains than they did 100 years ago, when we as a population were much healthier.

Citations? I don't agree with the premise that the longest lived cultures eat vegetarian diets high in whole grains. IMO, the longest lived cultures consume relatively low protein diets, low in grains, particularly modern grains. Nearly all modern cultures consume large amounts of grains, so it is pointless to compare them,.

The roman soldiers, the gladiators and other large ancient armies were all fueled by grains and starches, yet had short lifespans due to the dangers of the anciet world (battles, plaque, infection, food-poisoning, poor sanitation, etc.). Gladiators were even known as "the barley men" due to their diet of beans, barley and vegetables. What type of food allowed humanity to flourish? What did people eat on a daily basis before refrigerators?


If you don't think whole-grains are healthy, perhaps you should read the scientific-literature and see the overwhelming evidence there is to support the conclusion that whole-grains are indeed very healthy.

I'm very familiar with the literature, and far from convinced.
Roman soldiers were pathetic compared to the northern germanic barbarians, who were tall in stature and strong. Their advantage came from modern military tactics. WRT Gladiators, they were actually flabby to protect from flesh wounds.

What type of food prevents and reverses atherosclerosis? Whole-grains of course!

This is so far from the truth it's not even funny. The only grains that are close to acceptable are pre-modern varieties, properly fermented.

[HaloTeK]

I wish i could find a starch more nutritious than white rice that I can eat that doesn't give me problems.

Why not just adopt "the rice diet"? The diet was created by Dr. Walter Kempner in the 1940's and 50's at Duke University and was shown to pretty much prevent and reverse the diseases associated with metabolic-syndrome. The diet consisted mainly of white-rice, fruits and sucrose! Dr. Kempner's focus was on eating a low-protein/low-sodium diet.

White-rice, was (and perhaps still is) the major dietary-staple in Asia, the part of the world with the best longevity!

Usually, the starches that are most tolerable are sweet-potatoes, russet-potatoes, rice, and beans.

Once again, I wish it was this simple. I'm def don't doubt eating vegetables and fruit for health-- but I still think it's hard to think grains in large quanties is automatically good for everyone. While I get along fine with rice, what about the arsenic found it it. Couldn't that be a problem after cups and cups of it per day. Sweet potatoes, beans, and russet poatotes all seem to give me creaky joints and bouts of heartburn.

I'm still on the search for worrisome free calories as you really don't just sustain yourself on vegies and fruit. <--- At least not how I read the literature.

[misterE]

Citations? I don't agree with the premise that the longest lived cultures eat vegetarian diets high in whole grains.

J Am Coll Nutr. 2000 Jun;19(3 Suppl):300S-307S. Mechanisms for the impact of whole grain foods on cancer risk. Slavin JL.

“Epidemiologic studies find that whole grains are protective against cancer.”
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Am J Epidemiol. 2007 Nov 15;166(10):1174-85. Whole grains and risk of pancreatic cancer in a large population-based case-control study in the San Francisco Bay Area, California. Chan JM, Wang F, Holly EA.

“Epidemiologic data suggest that consumption of whole-grain products may be inversely associated with risk of pancreatic cancer.”
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Nutr Cancer. 1997;27(1):14-21. Whole-grain consumption and chronic disease: protective mechanisms. Slavin J, Jacobs D, Marquart L.

“Epidemiologic studies support the belief that whole grains are protective against cancers, especially gastrointestinal cancers such as gastric and colonic, and cardiovascular disease.”
------
Proc Nutr Soc. 2003 Feb;62(1):143-9. Epidemiological support for the protection of whole grains against diabetes. Murtaugh MA, Jacobs DR Jr, Jacob B.

“Risk for incident type 2 diabetes was 21-27% lower for those in the highest quintile of whole-grain intake.”
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J Am Coll Nutr. 2000 Oct;19(5):578-90. Health advantages and disadvantages of weight-reducing diets: a computer analysis and critical review. Anderson JW, Konz EC, Jenkins DJ.

“While high fat diets may promote short-term weight loss, the potential hazards for worsening risk for progression of atherosclerosis override the short-term benefits. Individuals derive the greatest health benefits from diets low in saturated fat and high in carbohydrate and fiber: these increase sensitivity to insulin and lower risk for CHD.”
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Am J Clin Nutr. 2002 Aug;76(2):390-8. Whole-grain intake is favorably associated with metabolic risk factors for type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease in the Framingham Offspring Study. McKeown NM, Meigs JB, Liu S.

“Whole-grain intake and metabolic risk markers were assessed in a cross-sectional study of 2941 subjects. Whole-grain intake was inversely associated with body mass index, waist-to-hip ratio, total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and fasting insulin.”
------------------
Am J Cardiol. 1998 Nov 26;82(10B):18T-21T. Diet, lifestyle, and the etiology of coronary artery disease: the Cornell China study. Campbell TC, Parpia B, Chen J.

“In rural China, fat intake was less than half that in the United States, and fiber intake was 3 times higher. Animal protein intake was very low, only about 10% of the US intake. Coronary artery disease mortality was 16.7-fold greater for US men and 5.6-fold greater for US women than for their Chinese counterparts.”
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Eur J Nutr. 2006 Feb;45(1):52-4. No evidence of insulin resistance in normal weight vegetarians. A case control study. Valachovicová M, Krajcovicová-Kudlácková M, Blazícek P.

“Vegetarians had a significantly higher consumption of whole grain products, pulses, products from oat and barley. Glucose and insulin concentrations and IR (HOMA) values were significantly lower in vegetarians.”
-------
Mutat Res. 1998 Jun 18;402(1-2):331-7. Worldwide prevention of cancer and other chronic diseases based on knowledge of mechanisms. Weisburger JH.

“In the Western world, heart disease and cancer of the breast, colon, rectum, prostate, pancreas, ovary and endometrium relate to a nutritional tradition too high in total fat-- Decreasing total fat intake, from 40 to 20% of calories and a greater use of starches such as rice, pasta, potatoes and whole grain bread, as well as daily intake of five to nine vegetables and fruits would be beneficial.”

What type of food prevents and reverses atherosclerosis? Whole-grains of course!

Proc Nutr Soc. 2003 Feb;62(1):135-42. Whole grains protect against atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Anderson JW.

“Epidemiological studies indicate that individuals with higher levels of whole-grain intake have a 29 % lower risk for atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease than individuals with lower levels of whole-grain intake.”
--------------------------------
J Am Diet Assoc. 1981 Dec;79(6):668-72. Dietary-atherosclerosis study on deceased persons. Moore MC, Guzman MA, Schilling PE.

“Researchers found lesser lesions to be related to intakes of legumes, grains, and vegetables, while higher lesions were related, but to a lesser degree, to intakes of beef, milk, and fruit.”
---------------------------------
Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 Sep;90(3):647-54. Dietary patterns and incident cardiovascular disease in the Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis. Nettleton JA, Polak JF, Tracy R.

“The Fats and Processed Meat dietary pattern was associated with a greater risk, and the Whole Grains and Fruit dietary pattern was associated with a lower risk of CVD”
----------------------------------------------
Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Jun;85(6):1495-502. Whole-grain intake and carotid artery atherosclerosis in a multiethnic cohort: the Insulin Resistance Atherosclerosis Study. Mellen PB, Liese AD, Tooze JA.

“Whole-grain intake is inversely associated with common carotid artery intimal medial thickness.”
----------------------------------
J Am Diet Assoc. 1976 Mar;68(3):216-23. Dietary-atherosclerosis study on deceased persons. Relation of selected dietary components to raised coronary lesions.
Moore MC, Guzmán MA, Schilling PE.

“Starch and vegetal protein were associated with less atherosclerotic lesion involvement in the coronaries, while animal protein and fat, regardless of source, were associated with greater atherosclerotic lesion involvement.”
---------------------
JAMA. 1998 Dec 16;280(23):2001-7. Intensive lifestyle changes for reversal of coronary heart disease. Ornish D, Scherwitz LW, Billings JH.

“In the experimental group, the average percent diameter stenosis at baseline decreased 1.75 absolute percentage points after 1 year (a 4.5% relative improvement) and by 3.1 absolute percentage points after 5 years (a 7.9% relative improvement). In contrast, the average percent diameter stenosis in the control group increased by 2.3 percentage points after 1 year (a 5.4% relative worsening) and by 11.8 percentage points after 5 years (a 27.7% relative worsening)”
-------------------
Prev Cardiol. 2001 Autumn;4(4):171-177. Resolving the Coronary Artery Disease Epidemic Through Plant-Based Nutrition. Esselstyn CB Jr.

“The world's advanced countries have easy access to plentiful high-fat food; ironically, it is this rich diet that produces atherosclerosis. In the world's poorer nations, many people subsist on a primarily plant-based diet, which is far healthier, especially in terms of heart disease-- interventional studies support the effectiveness of a plant-based diet and aggressive lipid lowering to arrest, prevent, and selectively reverse heart disease.”

Edited by misterE, 27 October 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[1kgcoffee]

These studies do not compare whole grain intake with the ideal, but the average american diet of processed foods, low fibre, excessive protein and calories. In many of these studies, whole grains are simply taking the place of refined grains. Just because whole grains are less unhealthy, does not mean that they are good.

"The world's advanced countries have easy access to plentiful high-fat food; ironically, it is this rich diet that produces atherosclerosis. In the world's poorer nations, many people subsist on a primarily plant-based diet, which is far healthier, especially in terms of heart disease-- interventional studies support the effectiveness of a plant-based diet and aggressive lipid lowering to arrest, prevent, and selectively reverse heart disease.”

Why do they fail to mention advanced countries easy access to high sugar, refined carbohydrate contained in practically everything and instead impilcate fat?

“Starch and vegetal protein were associated with less atherosclerotic lesion involvement in the coronaries, while animal protein and fat, regardless of source, were associated with greater atherosclerotic lesion involvement.”

It's not the fat, but the excessive protein, and advanced glycation/lipo-oxidation endproducts that lead to atherosclerotic lesions. Also, I don't have a problem with starch as such, but grains.


Question, misterE. If the vegetarian diet is so amazing, then why does India, a predominantly vegetarian country have one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world?

[misterE]

In many of these studies, whole grains are simply taking the place of refined grains.

And many studies show that when cultures eat less grains and more meat, eggs and dairy, disease rates increase.


Diabetes Care. 1979 Mar-Apr;2(2):161-70. Diabetes mellitus and its vascular complications in Japanese migrants on the Island of Hawaii. Kawate R, Yamakido M, Nishimoto Y.

“Consumption of animal fat and simple carbohydrates (sucrose and fructose) were at least twice as high in Hawaiian as in Hiroshima Japanese. Conversely, Hiroshima Japanese consumed about twice the amount of complex carbohydrate as the Hawaiian Japanese. These observations support the hypothesis that a high fat, high simple carbohydrate, low complex carbohydrate diet and/or reduced levels of physical activity increase risk of diabetes.”
---------------------------------

Asian Pac J Cancer Prev. 2004 Jan-Mar;5(1):28-35. Association between type II diabetes and colon cancer among Japanese with reference to changes in food intake. Kuriki K, Tokudome S, Tajima K.

“Since 1950, intake of milk, meat, eggs and fat/oil has increased, while that of rice and potatoes has gradually decreased”

-------------------------

Eur J Cancer Prev. 2004 Apr;13(2):127-32. Secular trend of colon cancer incidence and mortality in relation to fat and meat intake in Japan. Kono S.

“Although figures for the consumption of red meat was not available in the early years, red meat accounted for 70-80% of the total meat intake in the mid 1960s and thereafter. Cereal consumption showed a continuous decrease even after the 1970s, that of vegetables showing no marked change. The current observation adds to evidence that red meat intake is an important determinant of colon cancer risk.”

Why do they fail to mention advanced countries easy access to high sugar, refined carbohydrate contained in practically everything and instead impilcate fat?

Because fat plays the most important role! Population studies show that countries who eat more whole-grains and starch have the least amount of heart-disease while countries that eat the most fat and meat have the most. The two human studies done on atherosclerosis reversal were done using very low-fat diets high in whole-grains.

It's not the fat, but the excessive protein

Citation? Most respected studies indicate that fat (especially saturated-fat) is the culprit.

Question, misterE. If the vegetarian diet is so amazing, then why does India, a predominantly vegetarian country have one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world?

Because they are becomming industrialized, they are eating less starchy grains and leguems and more greasy western foods (like meat, cheese and eggs).

J Am Coll Nutr. 2010 Apr;29(2):81-91. Imbalanced dietary profile, anthropometry, and lipids in urban Asian Indian adolescents and young adults. Gupta N, Shah P, Goel K.

“High total fat and SFA intake-- could be responsible for the increasing prevalence of obesity and insulin resistance in urban Asian Indian adolescents and young adults.”
--------------------
Nutr J. 2011 Jan 28;10:12. A cross-sectional investigation of regional patterns of diet and cardio-metabolic risk in India. Daniel CR, Prabhakaran D, Kapur K.

“dietary patterns characterized by animal products, fried snacks, or sweets appeared to be positively associated with abdominal adiposity -- the "pulses and rice" pattern was inversely related to diabetes”

--------------------------------

Metab Syndr Relat Disord. 2004 Spring;2(1):14-23. The Metabolic Syndrome in Asian Indians: Impact of Nutritional and Socio-economic Transition in India. Wasir JS, Misra A.


“The diets in the urban and semi-urban areas contain more calories and saturated fats, and less fibre as compared to the traditional frugal diets”

------------------------------------
J Diabetes. 2011 Dec;3(4):278-92. Nutrition transition in India: secular trends in dietary intake and their relationship to diet-related non-communicable diseases.
Misra A, Singhal N, Sivakumar B.

“Nutrition transition over the past 30 years (1973-2004), has resulted in a 7% decrease in energy derived from carbohydrates and a 6% increase in energy derived from fats. A decreasing intake of coarse cereals, pulses, fruits and vegetables, an increasing intake of meat products and salt, coupled with declining levels of physical activity due to rapid urbanization have resulted in escalating levels of obesity, atherogenic dyslipidemia, subclinical inflammation, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes mellitus, and coronary heart disease in Indians.”

Edited by misterE, 01 November 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[1kgcoffee]

Diabetes Care. 1979 Mar-Apr;2(2):161-70. Diabetes mellitus and its vascular complications in Japanese migrants on the Island of Hawaii. Kawate R, Yamakido M, Nishimoto Y.

“Consumption of animal fat and simple carbohydrates (sucrose and fructose) were at least twice as high in Hawaiian as in Hiroshima Japanese. Conversely, Hiroshima Japanese consumed about twice the amount of complex carbohydrate as the Hawaiian Japanese. These observations support the hypothesis that a high fat, high simple carbohydrate, low complex carbohydrate diet and/or reduced levels of physical activity increase risk of diabetes.”

These types of observational study are useless. This doesn't say anything about animal fat on it's own. Hawaiins eat tons of sweet fruit and simple carbs. They also consume more calories in general and have higher rates of obesity, which makes sense given the effect of sugar on appetite. Show me a study comparing identical caloric intake of saturate fat and complex carb, alongside identical intake of simple sugars. You will likely find that the carbohydrate group have higher rates of diabetes.

Eur J Cancer Prev. 2004 Apr;13(2):127-32. Secular trend of colon cancer incidence and mortality in relation to fat and meat intake in Japan. Kono S.

“Although figures for the consumption of red meat was not available in the early years, red meat accounted for 70-80% of the total meat intake in the mid 1960s and thereafter. Cereal consumption showed a continuous decrease even after the 1970s, that of vegetables showing no marked change. The current observation adds to evidence that red meat intake is an important determinant of colon cancer risk.”

The meat related cause of colon cancer are pyrobenzenes ie charred meat. Also, don't forget that sugar consumption in Japan has had an even more marked increase than meat.

Why do they fail to mention advanced countries easy access to high sugar, refined carbohydrate contained in practically everything and instead impilcate fat?

Because fat plays the most important role! Population studies show that countries who eat more whole-grains and starch have the least amount of heart-disease while countries that eat the most fat and meat have the most. The two human studies done on atherosclerosis reversal were done using very low-fat diets high in whole-grains.

You're sort of evading the question. Fat does not play a role. A recent meta-study showed no correlation between saturated fat and heart disease. They ignore the real culprit for political reasons.
"The two human studies done on atherosclerosis reversal were done using very low-fat diets high in whole-grains." should read "using low calorie diets". A reduction in arterial plaque is not unusual and can be accomplished by anyone motivated, even on a less than ideal diet.

It's not the fat, but the excessive protein

Citation? Most respected studies indicate that fat (especially saturated-fat) is the culprit.

The China Study.

Question, misterE. If the vegetarian diet is so amazing, then why does India, a predominantly vegetarian country have one of the highest rates of heart disease in the world?

Because they are becomming industrialized, they are eating less starchy grains and leguems and more greasy western foods (like meat, cheese and eggs).

J Am Coll Nutr. 2010 Apr;29(2):81-91. Imbalanced dietary profile, anthropometry, and lipids in urban Asian Indian adolescents and young adults. Gupta N, Shah P, Goel K.

“High total fat and SFA intake-- could be responsible for the increasing prevalence of obesity and insulin resistance in urban Asian Indian adolescents and young adults.”
--------------------
Nutr J. 2011 Jan 28;10:12. A cross-sectional investigation of regional patterns of diet and cardio-metabolic risk in India. Daniel CR, Prabhakaran D, Kapur K.

“dietary patterns characterized by animal products, fried snacks, or sweets appeared to be positively associated with abdominal adiposity -- the "pulses and rice" pattern was inversely related to diabetes”

I've highlighted the most important words. They've done nothing to prove cause effect and ignored sugar consumption which is very high in India. WRT to pulses and rice, is it possible that these people can barely afford enough to get enough calories to mess up their metabolism in the first place? Many of them pull around rickshaws all day, or sweat in the fields. This is yet another example of how some scientists will take a variable in total isolation to support their flawed hypothesis. The academic establishment encourages this as long it fits with prevailing dogma.

Metab Syndr Relat Disord. 2004 Spring;2(1):14-23. The Metabolic Syndrome in Asian Indians: Impact of Nutritional and Socio-economic Transition in India. Wasir JS, Misra A.


“The diets in the urban and semi-urban areas contain more calories and saturated fats, and less fibre as compared to the traditional frugal diets”

And a lot more sugar.

[Mind]

Metab Syndr Relat Disord. 2004 Spring;2(1):14-23. The Metabolic Syndrome in Asian Indians: Impact of Nutritional and Socio-economic Transition in India. Wasir JS, Misra A.


“The diets in the urban and semi-urban areas contain more calories and saturated fats, and less fibre as compared to the traditional frugal diets”

And a lot more sugar.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves in epidemiological nutrition research. When summarizing the average diet of the research subjects, they almost always reflexively mention that they had bad diets with a lot of fat. They almost always leave the enormous amounts of sugar and carbs out of their statements.

[misterE]

These types of observational study are useless. This doesn't say anything about animal fat on it's own. Hawaiins eat tons of sweet fruit and simple carbs. They also consume more calories in general and have higher rates of obesity, which makes sense given the effect of sugar on appetite. Show me a study comparing identical caloric intake of saturate fat and complex carb, alongside identical intake of simple sugars. You will likely find that the carbohydrate group have higher rates of diabetes.

These types of studies are what gave us our fist clue on what causes "western-diseases". Saturated-fat causes insulin-resistance [1], fructose and sucrose also cause insulin-resistance because fructose is very lipogenic and easily converted into saturated-fat, unlike starch [2]. Insulin protects against cardiovascular-diseases by stimulating nitric-oxide production [3]. Cultures that eat the most fiber and starch (carbohydrate) and the least amount of fat, have the lowest rates of diabetes [4].


[1] J Med Invest. 2009 Aug;56(3-4):88-92. Saturated fatty acids and insulin resistance. Funaki M.

[2] Am J Clin Nutr. 1998 Apr;67(4):631-9. Human fatty acid synthesis is reduced after the substitution of dietary starch for sugar. Hudgins LC, Seidman CE, Diakun J.

[3] Diabetes. 2000 Jul;49(7):1231-8. Free fatty acid elevation impairs insulin-mediated vasodilation and nitric oxide production. Steinberg HO, Paradisi G, Hook G.

[4] Diabetologia. 1997 Apr;40(4):430-8. High saturated fat and low starch and fibre are associated with hyperinsulinaemia in a non-diabetic population: the San Luis Valley Diabetes Study. Marshall JA, Bessesen DH, Hamman RF.

The meat related cause of colon cancer are pyrobenzenes ie charred meat. Also, don't forget that sugar consumption in Japan has had an even more marked increase than meat.

Meat causes colon cancer for a number of reasons, low-fiber/high-fat foods in general cause colon cancer by adversely affecting the bacteria population in the colon. Animal-fats are also highly concentrated in carcinogens called dioxins. Animal-protein also increases free IGF-1, which is known to have cancer-promoting effects. Plant-foods are high in fiber and antioxidants that help prevent (colon) cancer.

A reduction in arterial plaque is not unusual and can be accomplished by anyone motivated, even on a less than ideal diet.

Then why hasn't it been done yet? Why haven't studies been published showing that a low-carb or high-fat diet reverses atherosclerosis?

It's not the fat, but the excessive protein

Citation?

The China Study.

LOL, I thought that "these types of observational studies are useless" ?

I've highlighted the most important words.

...And ignored the rest.

Look 1kgcoffee, no one is arguing that sugar consumption is good. But it's not just sugar, but also fat... the combination of the two. Eliminating just fat, or just sugar only solves part of the problem. And I'm not recommending people to stop eating meat and cheese and to start eating sugar and syrups. I'm recommending that people avoid fats and sugars and to eat more fiber and starches.

Edited by misterE, 04 November 2012 - 07:44 PM.

[Carroll]

Thanks for sharing.

Edited by Carroll, 06 November 2012 - 11:34 AM.