1569 replies to this topic

[sunshinefrost]

Have you tried dual4b today ?

[Xenix]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here - but the only question I really have now is that if the chemical I have really is Dihexa, and it is indeed creating more functional synapses within my brain, what could generally be expected? I mean, synapses are formed when we make a new memory; but what if we could 'shortcut' or exploit this mechanism with a drug, like Dihexa? What if synapse formation occurs without a memory being made/assigned to the brain? Could it lead to cognitive disorders such as schizophrenia or autism? I understand that synapse formation (and axonal outgrowth/growth cone direction) is a very delicate and intricate process - and so simply up-regulating this action may definitely not be a good thing.

Then again, when one exercises, BDNF proteins are being expressed in the brain which leads to neuro-(and possibly)synapto-genesis, without a memory necessarily being formed in the process - so one can cognitively benefit from exercise without necessarily learning new things/making new memories while doing so... Hmm...

(I hope this made sense)

[sunshinefrost]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here - but the only question I really have now is that if the chemical I have really is Dihexa, and it is indeed creating more functional synapses within my brain, what could generally be expected? I mean, synapses are formed when we make a new memory; but what if we could 'shortcut' or exploit this mechanism with a drug, like Dihexa? What if synapse formation occurs without a memory being made/assigned to the brain? Could it lead to cognitive disorders such as schizophrenia or autism? I understand that synapse formation (and axonal outgrowth/growth cone direction) is a very delicate and intricate process - and so simply up-regulating this action may definitely not be a good thing.

Then again, when one exercises, BDNF proteins are being expressed in the brain which leads to neuro-(and possibly)synapto-genesis, without a memory necessarily being formed in the process - so one can cognitively benefit from exercise without necessarily learning new things/making new memories while doing so... Hmm...

(I hope this made sense)

Where did you read that upregulating synapto-genesis is related to conditions such as you mentionned ?

[daouda]

Now you should ask someone more knowledgeable but I think being strongly hydrophobic does not make it a good candidate for sublingual absorbtion

[HappyPhysicist]

Xenix,

Thanks for the update. That is interesting that you tried it IN. All the davunetide trials were done IN so it seems like that is a preferred method of administration for some peptides at least.

HP

[Xenix]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here - but the only question I really have now is that if the chemical I have really is Dihexa, and it is indeed creating more functional synapses within my brain, what could generally be expected? I mean, synapses are formed when we make a new memory; but what if we could 'shortcut' or exploit this mechanism with a drug, like Dihexa? What if synapse formation occurs without a memory being made/assigned to the brain? Could it lead to cognitive disorders such as schizophrenia or autism? I understand that synapse formation (and axonal outgrowth/growth cone direction) is a very delicate and intricate process - and so simply up-regulating this action may definitely not be a good thing.

Then again, when one exercises, BDNF proteins are being expressed in the brain which leads to neuro-(and possibly)synapto-genesis, without a memory necessarily being formed in the process - so one can cognitively benefit from exercise without necessarily learning new things/making new memories while doing so... Hmm...

(I hope this made sense)

Where did you read that upregulating synapto-genesis is related to conditions such as you mentionned ?

I can't find the pubmed links right now, but abnormal synapse growth (ie too much synapse growth) has been linked to autism and MR (in this study), and, likewise, synapse overpruning has been linked to schizophrenia.

Edited by Xenix, 20 June 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[sunshinefrost]

Xenix, Have you tried again today ? Are you maintaining d4b ? Sorry for the questions but i'm very interested in the results

[HappyPhysicist]

The first vendor I have tried still hasn't gotten me a ship date. I am trying another. They sent me this diagram to confirm the structure. Can someone confirm that this is dihexa for me?

Attached Files

•  N-hexanoic-Tyr-Ile-(6)-aminohexanoic acid.png   5.83KB   16 downloads

[Xenix]

The first vendor I have tried still hasn't gotten me a ship date. I am trying another. They sent me this diagram to confirm the structure. Can someone confirm that this is dihexa for me?

That is definitely not Dihexa - it's far too simple.

This is PNB-0408 (an angiotensin related to Dihexa):


Dihexa should look something like this:


Or this:

[HappyPhysicist]

Could this perhaps just be a compact notation?

[OpaqueMind]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here - but the only question I really have now is that if the chemical I have really is Dihexa, and it is indeed creating more functional synapses within my brain, what could generally be expected? I mean, synapses are formed when we make a new memory; but what if we could 'shortcut' or exploit this mechanism with a drug, like Dihexa? What if synapse formation occurs without a memory being made/assigned to the brain? Could it lead to cognitive disorders such as schizophrenia or autism? I understand that synapse formation (and axonal outgrowth/growth cone direction) is a very delicate and intricate process - and so simply up-regulating this action may definitely not be a good thing.

Then again, when one exercises, BDNF proteins are being expressed in the brain which leads to neuro-(and possibly)synapto-genesis, without a memory necessarily being formed in the process - so one can cognitively benefit from exercise without necessarily learning new things/making new memories while doing so... Hmm...

(I hope this made sense)

Synaptic formation also occurs widely outside of memory encoding, in the hippocampus of regular exercises for example. Since this has been shown to be beneficial, not detrimental to functionality, then the way that new synapses form must follow the 'grain' of those neural structures, extending or making denser the neural structure in a similar pattern to its current wiring. If not, it would be chaos in there, a jumble of tangled wires which would not function properly. I have experienced the same thing with low level laser therapy to the brain, which induces neuro and synaptogenesis - the development of several abilities which rely on functional wiring of the cerebral cortex. We can reasonably infer from this that new neural outgrowths most likely follow specific patterns determined by the epigenetic expression and the physiological structure of the local regions targeted. If this principle demonstrably holds for these areas, it probably applies to other areas of the brain too.

Another possibility is that the initial neural growth is sporadic, chaotic, growing every which way into a relatively dense synaptic jungle. This jungle would then be subject to synaptic pruning into something usable, determined by experience, learning, motor patterns, skill development etc. This is a similar to the process that happens from childhood onwards, babies being born with a far greater number of neurons than an adult, and progressively selected to give coherence and complexity to the overall structure of the brain.

[Xenix]

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here - but the only question I really have now is that if the chemical I have really is Dihexa, and it is indeed creating more functional synapses within my brain, what could generally be expected? I mean, synapses are formed when we make a new memory; but what if we could 'shortcut' or exploit this mechanism with a drug, like Dihexa? What if synapse formation occurs without a memory being made/assigned to the brain? Could it lead to cognitive disorders such as schizophrenia or autism? I understand that synapse formation (and axonal outgrowth/growth cone direction) is a very delicate and intricate process - and so simply up-regulating this action may definitely not be a good thing.

Then again, when one exercises, BDNF proteins are being expressed in the brain which leads to neuro-(and possibly)synapto-genesis, without a memory necessarily being formed in the process - so one can cognitively benefit from exercise without necessarily learning new things/making new memories while doing so... Hmm...

(I hope this made sense)

Synaptic formation also occurs widely outside of memory encoding, in the hippocampus of regular exercises for example. Since this has been shown to be beneficial, not detrimental to functionality, then the way that new synapses form must follow the 'grain' of those neural structures, extending or making denser the neural structure in a similar pattern to its current wiring. If not, it would be chaos in there, a jumble of tangled wires which would not function properly. I have experienced the same thing with low level laser therapy to the brain, which induces neuro and synaptogenesis - the development of several abilities which rely on functional wiring of the cerebral cortex. We can reasonably infer from this that new neural outgrowths most likely follow specific patterns determined by the epigenetic exp<b></b>ression and the physiological structure of the local regions targeted. If this principle demonstrably holds for these areas, it probably applies to other areas of the brain too.

Another possibility is that the initial neural growth is sporadic, chaotic, growing every which way into a relatively dense synaptic jungle. This jungle would then be subject to synaptic pruning into something usable, determined by experience, learning, motor patterns, skill development etc. This is a similar to the process that happens from childhood onwards, babies being born with a far greater number of neurons than an adult, and progressively selected to give coherence and complexity to the overall structure of the brain.

Where did you get this laser brain therapy? What was the cost? and what benefits have you noticed? Anything long term? It sounds VERY intriguing. Also, how long would synaptic pathways take to form, roughly? Hours? Days, weeks, months?I'm having a hard time knowing if I am experiencing cognitive enhancement or not. But I'm wondering what kind of time frame I would be looking at if this compound was indeed increasing synaptogenesis.

An update: over the past few days of taking 'Dihexa' IN, I have not been able to replicate the first day effects - it seems that either IN delivery was no greater than placebo, or my tolerance to 'Dihexa' has increased dramatically; but my money is on it being placebo, which is a shame.

I have decided to ditch the IN method for now and instead go for the sublingual method - it seems like a more potent administration route than swallowing capsules (orally).

I'd really like someone to organise a group buy - not for my own benefit, but so other people can judge this peptide for themselves - perhaps I am a 'non-responder', or I have not been taking it for long enough, or maybe I am simply taking too small a dose for noticeable effects to manifest themselves.

If anyone would like to know who manufacturer is (I paid $920USD for 1.5grams - a very competitive price) please PM me and I will tell you. I do not want to publically announce it here as I'm sure my supplier would become swamped with 'Dihexa' synthesis quotes - which would look really fishy.

I have asked Scienceguy is he would be interested in doing a group buy, but he is not interested in doing so until it has been proven safe (i.e., a clinical trial) which may easily be years down the track. If you don't want to wait this long, I can tell you who synthesized my batch and you can try it out for yourself.

Xenix, Have you tried again today ? Are you maintaining d4b ? Sorry for the questions but i'm very interested in the results

Sorry, my results are fluctuating and it's hard to pinpoint whether that spike in 'enhancement' was due to 'Dihexa' or not. I am currently back to D3B, but with only a few mistakes (mostly position errors, not audio).

Edited by Xenix, 23 June 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[spookytooth]

I would not be worried about not getting actue effects from the ingestion of Dihexa.
Cerebrolysin only gives me slight acute effects but retrospectively I believe its effect has been quite profound.
Substances that work on neuro and synaptogenesis IMO can only really be judged retrospectively. This is why I believe some of the participants of the NSI-189 trial will feel let-down expecting an immense and immediate effect on their cognition.

Edited by spookytooth, 23 June 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[sunshinefrost]

I would not be worried about not getting actue effects from the ingestion of Dihexa.
Cerebrolysin only gives me slight acute effects but retrospectively I believe its effect has been quite profound.
Substances that work on neuro and synaptogenesis IMO can only really be judged retrospectively. This is why I believe some of the participants of the NSI-189 trial will feel let-down expecting an immense and direct effect on their cognition.

I strongly agree. It took me 14 days to respond to cerebrolysin. I did feel a strong effect when i started responding though. How long does it take for a synapse to be added to a neural network ? It can't just pop up like that in 1 week can it ?

Edited by sunshinefrost, 23 June 2013 - 04:18 PM.

[Metagene]

I f***ed up my cerebrolysin experience because wasn't getting enough Vitiam D around that time. Would do another 4 weeks despite the price.
Considering my condition I choose to believe every little bit helps.

[HappyPhysicist]

A nice website for drawing peptides:


http://www.tulane.ed...hem/WW/PepDraw/

[HappyPhysicist]

I understand the drug was made orally bioavailable but I could not find rates of bioavailability via oral ingestion so I thought I'd increase the effectiveness by IMing it but that turned out to be a total failure. My muscle twitched erratically while IMing dihexa which had never happened before while IMing cerebrolysin. I pulled out after IMing an extremely insignificant ammount and decided just to go with oral ingestation. I don't really know how to prepare a hydrophobic peptide for injection but maybe someone on these forums may provide me with some knowledge.

Nooty,

This is very interesting to me. As some of you may know when you have ALS your muslces twitch a lot as the nerves die off. But the twitching itself is a sign that the nerves that remain are growing into the muscles that lose their motor neurons. So it is a sign nerve growth. Its just that in ALS its because of nerve death.

So twitching can be a good thing.

What did you mix dihexa with to IM it?

Thanks,

HP

[Xenix]

I understand the drug was made orally bioavailable but I could not find rates of bioavailability via oral ingestion so I thought I'd increase the effectiveness by IMing it but that turned out to be a total failure. My muscle twitched erratically while IMing dihexa which had never happened before while IMing cerebrolysin. I pulled out after IMing an extremely insignificant ammount and decided just to go with oral ingestation. I don't really know how to prepare a hydrophobic peptide for injection but maybe someone on these forums may provide me with some knowledge.

Nooty,

This is very interesting to me. As some of you may know when you have ALS your muslces twitch a lot as the nerves die off. But the twitching itself is a sign that the nerves that remain are growing into the muscles that lose their motor neurons. So it is a sign nerve growth. Its just that in ALS its because of nerve death.

So twitching can be a good thing.

What did you mix dihexa with to IM it?

Thanks,

HP

I doubt you'll get a response from Nooty, I don't think he's ever coming back for some reason. Anyway, I talked to him about IM'ing it a few months ago via PM.

I have tried injecting it via IM too, and I disagree that it is new nerves growing - although I may be wrong - I think it's just irritation from the injection site. I experienced terrible pain after injecting it IM myself, leaving me unable to walk properly for several days. It doesn't dissolve well into water at all - it is a *very* hydrophobic molecule because it was designed for oral administration. If you want to do it this way, the only real option is to use DMSO to dissolve it (cheap and easy to purchase off eBay); otherwise you will be injecting a very sludgey-looking paste.

I have injected it IM using DMSO and can confirm that it does dissolve - but not 100% - just much greater than using something like bacteriostatic (BAC) water. Even when I used the DMSO (99.9% purity) to dissolve it, though, it still burnt my thigh like a bitch. I wouldn't recommend it. Try the IN or sublingual administration route first.

Has your Dihexa arrived yet, HP?

[Major Legend]

[deleted for irrelevance to topic]

Edited by Major Legend, 25 June 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[HappyPhysicist]

Dihexa arrived yesterday. Tried sublingual yesterday, about 20 mg, trying 20 mg IN today. So far nothing noticeable and no side effects.

[HappyPhysicist]

I am not sure if snorting it is going to work for me. I seem to be coughing it up. I think it goes into my lungs but doesn't get absorbed. I might try mixing it in a milk shake.

[sunshinefrost]

Dihexa arrived yesterday. Tried sublingual yesterday, about 20 mg, trying 20 mg IN today. So far nothing noticeable and no side effects.

Can you share what your plateau was at dual n back ? Keep us posted

[HappyPhysicist]

I assume dual n back is some sort of cognitive test. Sorry I didn't do a baseline. I can try the memory test I did for the methylene blue experiment.

What about mixing Dihexa with olive oil?

[HappyPhysicist]

Just did the memory test.

http://neutralx0.net...me/mini04.html" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">http://neutralx0.net...i04.html />
Before my max memory items was 2 and I tried many times to get beyond 2, this time I did 10 and could have done more buy they have two coins that look very similar and that is why I stopped at 10.

I think I was able to remember more because the images were invoking strong memories of touch as I looked at them. I could easily think about how those images felt.
One odd thing I noticed after my first dose of dihexa was that evening I had incredibly vivid dreams in which I was having strong tactile sensations in my dream. I brushed it off as coincidence but after doing this memory test I am now convinced Dihexa is indeed causing additional neuronal connection in my brain, in particular it is allowing me to combine the senses. This is a very common tactic in memorization.
Wish I had this in college.

Unfortunately it does not seem to be helping my motor neurons. 

Edited by HappyPhysicist, 26 June 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[OpaqueMind]

Where did you get this laser brain therapy? What was the cost? and what benefits have you noticed? Anything long term? It sounds VERY intriguing. Also, how long would synaptic pathways take to form, roughly? Hours? Days, weeks, months?I'm having a hard time knowing if I am experiencing cognitive enhancement or not. But I'm wondering what kind of time frame I would be looking at if this compound was indeed increasing synaptogenesis.

I brought a cold laser (the vetrolaser to be precise) which cost $645 along with protective goggles. There are cheaper options available that should theoretically work, but I chose to play it safe and go with methods already tried and tested by LostFalso, the awesome author of this here thread, in which I found out about the laser therapy. The benefits I have noticed are numerous, accumulative and potent. There are several mechanisms it works by but the two that probably have the most direct effect on cognition are the increase in metabolism and stimulation of neurogenesis. This effect is local, so I shaved my head in order to target all areas of the cerebral cortex. I do not regret this decision one iota. In fact it has been by far the most effective 'nootropic' intervention I have thus far engaged in.

The most pronounced effects are on focus, memory and associational abilities, basically a gradual but substantial increase in all of these. Most likely I notice these more than other effects primarily because they are key features of conscious cognition. I have no doubt that there are other effects going on underneath though, since I'm targeting the entire cerebral cortex - the seat of 'higher' thought - with this treatment. Over time the physiological changes will accumulate leading to fundamental phase shifts in consciousness. I've already undergone one, having had almost non-existent autobiographical memory and average semantic memory prior, and both increasing to the point where I have access to things that I previously did not have access to. This alters the entire structure of my thoughts, adding an extra layer through which I can better understand myself and the world. Perhaps the next ones won't be so fundamental, but I anticipate further gains with cautious (albiet fiery) optimism. As to how long it takes for synaptic pathways to form, I'm not sure, but considering it takes weeks/months to notice subjective shifts, which would require a decent amount to grow, I imagine they form over the length of days.

[jabowery]

Congratulations doing longitudinal quantitative measurement.

Its exceedingly unfortunate that others applying nootropic technologies to themselves are not similarly disciplined. Many of these technologies have not even gone through primate safety trials, let alone human efficacy trials, so the loss of data represented by thoughtless self-treatment is tragic -- doubly-so if the side effects turn out to be, as so many people like to warn, similar to that portrayed in "Charly". Admittedly, such fictional scenarios are not to be taken as data points -- but mythology has its place.

Just did the memory test.

http://neutralx0.net...i04.html<p>

Before my max memory items was 2 and I tried many times to get beyond 2, this time I did 10 and could have done more buy they have two coins that look very similar and that is why I stopped at 10.

[HappyPhysicist]

http://neutralx0.net/home/mini04.html

Link to memory test was messed up and I can't seem to edit it.

[jabowery]

http://neutralx0.net/home/mini04.html

Link to memory test was messed up and I can't seem to edit it.

Its too late in your case, but (and I believe I've mentioned this before) it may be good to use WORDSUM*. That test has been put through extensive field trials that are designed to place minimal burden on the test subject, and the results have bee extensively analyzed as part of the General Social Survey.

*This is not to be confused with the Wordsum puzzle.

[nightwolfz]

Any updates? I'd like to see more personal experiences from people who are currently trying this new molecule.

Edited by nightwolfz, 30 June 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Elusive]

It all sounds really good...has any one tried PQQ (10mg) + Fish Oil + CDP Choline (250mg) and then used the laser?
I be really interested in the results