1569 replies to this topic

[DHEXA]

First let me get his sample. And yes we have to consider that if we have no definitive update soon. I will speak to N about it if the sample is good and by the end of the month there is no new update.

 I don't have any involvement in the group buy, but is the delay because of Nyles or the lab? You mentioned a week ago that you haven't been hearing anything from him. I do see that he has an account here.

Anyway, It's may be a bit premature to be switching labs. For these companies it's usually not the synthesis itself that is expensive, but rather the R&D for each synthesis.
A written contract is signed prior to any synthesis. In addition to them never working with N again, they could decide to pursue legal action against him.

[Nemo888]

A bit off topic but does anyone know where I can acquire some SS-31? I have a friend with a mitochondrial mutation and his prognosis is quite grim.

[Flex]

A bit off topic but does anyone know where I can acquire some SS-31? I have a friend with a mitochondrial mutation and his prognosis is quite grim.

 

Looks like You´ve got allready a response from the Off-topic Police...

 

If nobody calls up, I would ask Ceretropic for a synthesis.

But it could be expensive.

Edited by Flex, 17 July 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[Shamanist]

I shipped out a small amount of dihexa to six members earlier today. They were sent via first class letter mail, so expect 2-3 days for delivery.

 

I just discovered this thread and wish to thank all of you for the great info!

 

I'm looking forward to hearing the results from the members who got the samples.

[DHEXA]

Some observations - day 14

I'm experiencing a moderate rise in systolic blood pressure. It's not at dangerous levels (no hypertension), but i'm definitely going to monitor it closely. I am somewhat genetically predisposed, but in very good shape otherwise. I'd be very cautious of using this compound if you have any kind of cardiovascular disease. Someone earlier in the thread posted a link to an interesting study that suggests BP would likely be affected.[1] (Sorry, I can't find find who to give credit to.)

Otherwise I feel alright. The effects seem to be more noticeable each day.

There's something else that's been happening frequently enough that i feel might be useful to mention. Yesterday evening after finishing a project I went and sat on my balcony to unwind. I started to stare off in the trees and just absorb the landscape. Colors seemed richer, the same view I see every day just seemed inexplicably profound. It was almost psychedelic in nature.

I mention this because someone in PM speculated (tongue in cheek perhaps) that the genius of Nikola Tesla could in part be explained by BDNF over-expression. There are reports of him having hypersensitive sight and hearing, a deep connection with nature, and other strange characteristics.[2]

[1] - TrkB Agonist Antibody Dose-Dependently Raises Blood Pressure in Mice With Diet-Induced Obesity (published research)
[2] - Reflections on the Mind of Nikola Tesla - R (Chandra) Chandrasekhar (web page)

[xks201]

I've spike with a relative of tesla. Most of those stories about his intelligence like doing complex differential equations in his head were true. Never married.

[sk_scientific]

... Never married.

 

Whoa.  Epic genius.

 

[agora]

No one replied to me yet... Does anyone have the structure to share or PM me? I'd really appreciate it....

[sk_scientific]

No one replied to me yet... Does anyone have the structure to share or PM me? I'd really appreciate it....

 

 Dihexa.jpeg   54.54KB   5 downloads

[neuralis]

DHEXA, are you using it for a medical condition or just for its proposed nootropic effects?

[PWAIN]

 

First let me get his sample. And yes we have to consider that if we have no definitive update soon. I will speak to N about it if the sample is good and by the end of the month there is no new update.

 I don't have any involvement in the group buy, but is the delay because of Nyles or the lab? You mentioned a week ago that you haven't been hearing anything from him. I do see that he has an account here.

Anyway, It's may be a bit premature to be switching labs. For these companies it's usually not the synthesis itself that is expensive, but rather the R&D for each synthesis.
A written contract is signed prior to any synthesis. In addition to them never working with N again, they could decide to pursue legal action against him.

 

I can't recall the exact date the order went in but it would have been several months ago. There must be a reasonable cut off, they certainly have significantly exceeded their original time estimate. Maybe a "you have 28 days to deliver or we cancel" would be adequate? The contract would have already been breached by them when they exceeded their estimated production time.

[fairy]

I've spike with a relative of tesla. Most of those stories about his intelligence like doing complex differential equations in his head were true. Never married.

 
Looks like he had poor skills in math and theoretical physics goo.gl/DJ0fmX, goo.gl/HdPyGk. This is not uncommon. Faraday was a brilliant physicist with little knowledge in math: Faraday was an excellent experimentalist who conveyed his ideas in clear and simple language; his mathematical abilities, however, did not extend as far as trigonometry or any but the simplest algebra. James Clerk Maxwell took the work of Faraday and others, and summarized it in a set of equations that is accepted as the basis of all modern theories of electromagnetic phenomena. On Faraday's uses of the lines of force, Maxwell wrote that they show Faraday "to have been in reality a mathematician of a very high order – one from whom the mathematicians of the future may derive valuable and fertile methods." goo.gl/cpOzA2

[xks201]

 

 

First let me get his sample. And yes we have to consider that if we have no definitive update soon. I will speak to N about it if the sample is good and by the end of the month there is no new update.

 I don't have any involvement in the group buy, but is the delay because of Nyles or the lab? You mentioned a week ago that you haven't been hearing anything from him. I do see that he has an account here.

Anyway, It's may be a bit premature to be switching labs. For these companies it's usually not the synthesis itself that is expensive, but rather the R&D for each synthesis.
A written contract is signed prior to any synthesis. In addition to them never working with N again, they could decide to pursue legal action against him.

 

I can't recall the exact date the order went in but it would have been several months ago. There must be a reasonable cut off, they certainly have significantly exceeded their original time estimate. Maybe a "you have 28 days to deliver or we cancel" would be adequate? The contract would have already been breached by them when they exceeded their estimated production time.

 

Yeah that is what is what I was going to talk to him about.

 

Tesla was not bad at math. I've taken calc1 through 3 through differential equations and he is using all of that in this book of his papers I have. He just thought about things before he did the math so as to simplify the math. He did not depend on math as heavily as most scientists did in regards to that. Faraday was the one who was bad at math simply because he had no real education. Tesla was trained in all of that at university. I'd love to say there was something Tesla was bad at. I have a hard time finding that something. He did believe in eugenics which in my mind is absurdly cruel. But then again every health scientist promulgated genetics and everyone has a tendency to invest trust in ideas held widely in science. I'm sure given the data today and seeing the results of basically a forced eugenics movement coming from Germany he would have changed his mind. 

Edited by xks201, 18 July 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[DHEXA]

Hopefully samples should be arriving for most today or tomorrow. In the interest of harm reduction I'd like to reemphasize that this compound has an incredibly long half life.

SK_scientific and I dug a little bit more into the likely human half-life for dihexa. Here was our reasoning:
Due to metabolic and body composition differences, drugs administered to rats typically show a longer half-life when administered to humans.
The rat half life is 12.68 days[1]

SK_scientific was able to find an equation which allows you to estimate human kinetics based on rat kinetics. [2]

Here's some napkin math:
log10[half-life in human]=0.906*log10[half-life in rat]+0.723
[half-life in human]=antilog[0.906*log10[half-life in rat]+0.723]
[half-life in human]=antilog[0.906*log10[12.68*24]+0.723]
[half-life in human]=939.501 hours
[half-life in human]=39.1459 days

To put a 40 day half life into perspective. A common medication for hypothyroidism is levothyroxine. It has a rather long half life for a pharmaceutical - around 7 days. It takes 4-6 weeks to reach maximum serum concentration.

I couldn't find a documented method of determining maximum concentration from half life - though i can't imagine it's that hard. I finally just setup a basic spreadsheet and plotted it. I made the assumption that the dose is 20mgs once daily. On the y axis is mgs in circulation, on x is days. 

 

 

Don't take this as anything more than a rough estimate. What I'm trying to point out is that circulating levels rise (nearly linearly) for a long time. Maximum concentrations won't be reached until around 200 days of constant use! Reaching this point may be neither safe nor desirable. Additionally, if you do experience negative effects, they could take a very long time to subside, unlike most traditional pharmaceuticals.

[1] - Evaluation of Metabolically Stabilized Angiotensin IV Analogs as Procognitive/Antidementia Agents - page 147

[2] - The Prediction of Human Pharmacokinetic Parameters from Preclinical and In Vitro Metabolism Data - see figure 6

Edited by DHEXA, 18 July 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[xks201]

Excellent news on the half life. This could be the holy grail in part due to that. If there is a side effect I'd blame it on a drug interaction first if you are taking other things. I don't expect any serious reaction due 59 it being an angiotensin analog

Edited by xks201, 18 July 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[neuroatypicow]

could you clarify what you mean by 'the holy grail'? does that mean we wouldn't need to take it continuously? or we could take lesser amounts? i'm not clear on what you're saying. thanks ^_^

[xks201]

It's hard for me to say what holy grail means until I see for myself.

[Nemo888]

Excellent news on the half life. This could be the holy grail in part due to that. If there is a side effect I'd blame it on a drug interaction first if you are taking other things. I don't expect any serious reaction due 59 it being an angiotensin analog

 

Many thought the same things about steroid analogues like Deca and dianabol.

[sk_scientific]

Hopefully samples should be arriving for most today or tomorrow. In the interest of harm reduction I'd like to reemphasize that this compound has an incredibly long half life.

SK_scientific and I dug a little bit more into the likely human half-life for dihexa. Here was our reasoning:
Due to metabolic and body composition differences, drugs administered to rats typically show a longer half-life when administered to humans.
The rat half life is 12.68 days[1]

SK_scientific was able to find an equation which allows you to estimate human kinetics based on rat kinetics. [2]

Here's some napkin math:
log10[half-life in human]=0.906*log10[half-life in rat]+0.723
[half-life in human]=antilog[0.906*log10[half-life in rat]+0.723]
[half-life in human]=antilog[0.906*log10[12.68*24]+0.723]
[half-life in human]=939.501 hours
[half-life in human]=39.1459 days

To put a 40 day half life into perspective. A common medication for hypothyroidism is levothyroxine. It has a rather long half life for a pharmaceutical - around 7 days. It takes 4-6 weeks to reach maximum serum concentration.

I couldn't find a documented method of determining maximum concentration from half life - though i can't imagine it's that hard. I finally just setup a basic spreadsheet and plotted it. I made the assumption that the dose is 20mgs once daily. On the y axis is mgs in circulation, on x is days. 

 

 

Don't take this as anything more than a rough estimate. What I'm trying to point out is that circulating levels rise (nearly linearly) for a long time. Maximum concentrations won't be reached until around 200 days of constant use! Reaching this point may be neither safe nor desirable. Additionally, if you do experience negative effects, they could take a very long time to subside, unlike most traditional pharmaceuticals.

[1] - Evaluation of Metabolically Stabilized Angiotensin IV Analogs as Procognitive/Antidementia Agents - page 147

[2] - The Prediction of Human Pharmacokinetic Parameters from Preclinical and In Vitro Metabolism Data - see figure 6

 

I'm glad that DHXA addressed this as I was mulling over the best approach today while I was driving. Given that some amount of his samples will be readily available to people within a day or two, I contemplated the potential urgency of discussing this in forum.  Thanks for putting that together for everybody, DHXA. 

 

I should let everyone know that I have contacted a Toxicologist to get some thoughts on the equation that we located, and any potential other variables involved in determining half life when converting data from rodent to human.  Unfortunately that individual will be out of the office for several more days.

 

It MAY turn out that one would only need to dose with this substance once every couple of weeks or once per month to reap benefits.  And as DHXA pointed out, we should absolutely be certain to stress that "Mega Dosing" be avoided at all costs.  This is not a psychoactive compound like most of the drugs that people are used to taking.  You're obviously stuck with your decision for a good while once this is in your plasma.  Daily use in and of itself could prove wasteful even if it were found out that the drug was safe in high circulating concentrations.

 

Anyhow, once I speak with the Toxicologist, we'll share what we know.  Until then, take all of this into serious consideration for your own safety.

Edited by sk_scientific, 18 July 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[therein]

I just received my sample. Thanks a lot, DHEXA.

 

I'll be trying it on Monday.

[Metagene]

Straight from the patent.

Dihexa is an exceedingly stable molecule with a circulating half-life>12 days (FIG. 46). It is excreted intact in the urine and undergoes little phase I metabolism. Modeling predicts that it will be 22% unbound in the plasma. It is orally bioavailable and is very BBB permeable. Thirty minutes after delivery it is concentrated in the brain at levels 40× blood where it is widely distributed including in the midbrain and striatum. Significantly, no overt toxicity was noted during studies lasting as long as 96 days.

Inspection of the data presented above (e.g. FIGS. 41 and 42) suggests at least three possible modifications to the dosing regimen. First, the effectiveness of the treatment and the long elimination half-life of Dihexa advocates for a lower frequency of drug delivery, e.g. biweekly, weekly, monthly, and/or with deescalating frequencies. Second, the effectiveness of the treatment protocol used in these initial studies also suggests that doses lower than 0.5 mg/kg will be effective, e.g. about 0.05, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, or 0.4 mg/kg. Finally, the stability of the functional recovery with continued treatment suggests that once functional recovery is complete continued treatment may not be required or may only require maintenance dosing. While bioavailability via oral drug delivery has been confirmed, there are reasons related to the physical capabilities of patients to also use other delivery methods, including subcutaneous and transdermal.

https://www.google.c...d=0CD0Q6AEwBTgK

[xks201]

Excellent news on the half life. This could be the holy grail in part due to that. If there is a side effect I'd blame it on a drug interaction first if you are taking other things. I don't expect any serious reaction due 59 it being an angiotensin analog

 
Many thought the same things about steroid analogues like Deca and dianabol.

Lol have you even done these compounds? Because they are great steroids of you are a bodybuilder. Dbol has a half life of just 4 hours and decas half life is completely dependent on what ester is attached to it. Failing to see your point............

[Nemo888]

This should probably considered as the human trial is starting .

 

"After a large stroke, motor skills barely improve, even with rehabilitation. An experiment conducted on rats demonstrates that a course of (peptide)therapy combining the stimulation of nerve fiber growth with drugs and motor training can be successful. The key, however, is the correct sequence: Paralyzed animals only make an almost complete recovery if the training is delayed until after the growth promoting drugs have been administered, as researchers from the University of Zurich, ETH Zurich and the University of Heidelberg reveal."

 

http://www.mediadesk...greifen_en.html

 

Take it easy. Make sure you eat well and rest while in the regeneration phase.

[xks201]

So Nemo888 you tagged my post saying it was dangerous and irresponsible and then didn't respond to it? lol, In any event nice find on the study. 

Edited by xks201, 19 July 2014 - 02:53 AM.

[Nemo888]

If you don't have a degenerative brain disorder or reduced hippocampal volume taking dihexa at this point in time is nuts. I am at a loss why a young healthy mentally bright person would want to perform such an experiment. A bigger brain does not make you smarter. Sperm whales have 5 times our brain volume and are not more intelligent. I you had Parkinson's a hepatocyte growth factor analog like Dihexa would be worth the risk, but you don't.
.

Taking the attitude of steroid bodybuilders and applying it to intelligence has never been successful. I never thought that was a great idea either BTW. I like normal ranges as my medical training has taught me more is not better. Throwing off endogenous regulation and homeostasis is always risky and I see little reward in a healthy individual. But I have a soft spot for steroid users. I hope you are the first to be successful.

Edited by Nemo888, 19 July 2014 - 05:11 AM.

[sk_scientific]

You know, I did find some research information that indicated there may be a relationship between an abnormally high amount of dentritic spines and Autism Spectrum Disorder, however this relationship is not necessarily causal. 

 

As a defensive measure, I took a brief emotional intelligence quiz on facial expressions and implied emotion.  Luckily I scored nearly perfect.  But then I was not born or ever diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

 

One wonders, if an individual were to have a normal emotional and intellectual development, learning emotional cues and according behavioral scripts, but then owing to pharmacological modification, had structural similarities to an Asperger's Savant, would they resemble the savant or would the developed and learned behaviors remain present in unusual and exceptionally different wiring?

 

Probably a lot more goes on with Autists than just unusual densities and neural connections.

Edited by sk_scientific, 19 July 2014 - 07:29 PM.

[xks201]

I never said I was a steroid user. It's about accelerating repair of damage. Everyone here isn't young and in perfect mental shape like you apparently. No one here is applying "steroid thought". You are the one that brought up steroids claiming that deca and dianabol were not good steroids. And all I said was you had no idea what you were talking about in regards to that. I don't know what medical training you have had but it is largely irrelevant here just like anyone else's medical training is largely irrelevant here. I'm not sure what benefits I get from responding to your trolling other than being called a steroid abuser who thinks dihexa is acting along similar lines. Not sure I am gaining much from responding to your posts so I am going to stop. 

 

You are negative repping every single one of my posts with as many negatives as you can. Does that define you as a troll? Probably. Harassment? Do I need to contact a mod? Would someone with "professional medical training" act like this? I doubt it. Later dude. 

Edited by xks201, 19 July 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[sk_scientific]

*cough*

 

Dihexa, gentlemen, and things most generally relating to it... topic of conversation here.

[xks201]

So uhh....The rat is demonstrating cholinergic effectics...alternating with mild anti cholinergic effects. Never seen anything like this. It is as if it is reprogramming the nervous system....unless it's all in my head and I was sent baking soda. Strong anti anxiety effects. Nervous system tonic. Relaxing. Rat shows minor evidence of increased cerebral perfusion.....These are guesses. Now the rat says it almost feels as a mild endorphin stimulant. This all 20 min post dose.that I imagine would mean it is seriously potent.

Edited by xks201, 19 July 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Nemo888]

I was an army medic. I have more experience with steroid users than you would expect. Long term the biosimilar users neuroendocrine systems seemed to fail more readily. Often permanently losing endogenous regulation and in extreme cases developing antibodies to their own hormones. In the army they are often used for accelerated healing, but outside the army they are usually a sign of body dysmorphia. These "bigorexics" trade their health for bigger muscles. Often they can't even do a days work as they are incredibly delicate. I have had to move gym equipment for these glass cannons on a few occasions. I myself use bio identical testosterone and human growth hormone, but at levels up to 100 times less than the steroid monsters. Though most use only 10 to 20 times my doses. I strive for balance and longevity. I have little narcissistic need for giant muscles.

 

This is somewhat on topic as Dihexa's mechanism of action is as a hepatoctye growth factor activator. Not being bioidentical it may have some strange and unexpected effects on the body. My experiments were crazy too, but they worked. If they had not I was trying to source FGL peptide and would have considered Dihexa.