49 replies to this topic

[trance]

Tatsumaru,

Fish oil contains a combination of ingredients. I am unsure which ones in particular have the synergizing effect with piracetam.

As far as being a Vegetarian... that's no reason not to take Fish Oil. Fish Oil sold in stores does not come from fish, and is synthetically made in a laboratory.

Actually, anything labeled "Fish Oil" comes from fish. The fish has to give up their life to give up their fish oil. So some vegetarians will have multiple issues with this. Fish oil is animal sourced, via death of the animal. There are plant based EFAs however.

http://www.iherb.com...=vegetarian efa

On top of that, nothing about fish oil has anything to do with meat or anything that would come into conflict with any sort of Vegetarian Ideas, whether you are a vegetarian for moral, health, or spiritual reasons.

Again, see above.

"Fish Oil" is just a label to define a set of ingredients that commonly occur in fish but are merely chemical compounds. Taking that supplement that you linked would be akin to taking half of Fish Oil, which is pointless. You'd still be taking part of fish oil. Don't let the name 'Fish Oil' bother you, it's just a label that has little to do with Fish

Sorry, but that's completely wrong.

Anything labeled "Fish Oil" is from fish. Just like Krill oil is from krill. Just liike Seal oil is from seals. Just like Flax oil is from flax. See how that works?

Edited by trance, 30 October 2012 - 05:10 PM.

[Renegade]

Re 'promising' all bad side effects of piracetam will go away with fish oil - I was taking 10g of fish oil and NO choline, and it turned me into a mess by day 3.

[bernard]

I upped my Piracetam dose yesterday by taking 1x1200mg in the morning and 1x2400 about 6-7 hours later. Felt fine until a few hours after I went to bed. I woke up because I had to pee but felt uneasiness and moderate anxiety. I'll try to stick to that dose for now in order to adapt better but I'm yet to add ingredients to my stack so I'm pretty sure I'll need more anxiolytics to balance the equation.

Now this is important:
Is there any information that Piracetam may directly or indirectly (or by depleting key nutrients) suppress the immune system ? It's worth mentioning that when I upped my Piracetam I got the flu and I have something in my mouth which can be ulcer but it can also be Herpes Simplex (which is a virus known to occur when the immune system is weak). There is info that Piracetam may act as an anti-inflammatory and blood-thinning agent at higher doses (similar to aspirin) and also some info that it may support the immune system, but what about the other way around ? I don't have any bruising so I'm pretty sure my platelet count is fine, but I'm eager to find out if the ulcers/herpes + flu were just a bad coincidence or the Piracetam is letting me down.

[Nickotin]

I'm new to this as well, so I'm not an expert by any means, but you may want to consider incorporating picamilon.

[dingerma]

Almonds are another source of fatty omega-3s, but I'm unsure about dosage.

Flax seed oil is high in the Omega-3s that most people take fish oil to get. I am a veggie too. Some of the free range chicken eggs are high in Omega-3. I am not sure where the chickens get it. The box says vegetarian fed chickens.

[bernard]

Ok, anxiety is very tolerable, sometimes non existent. Probably due to the included adaptogens.

I've started a loading phase - 3x1200mg Piracetam/day + 3x 250/250mg Choline B./Inositol. I have been feeling mild headaches. Maybe my choline is not enough. I will soon start 600-1000mg/day Citicoline to compensate.

I'm also looking to include some Acetyl-L-Carnitine. How do 3g/day sound ?

Edited by Tatsumaru, 03 November 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Your experiencing headaches and taking 750mg Choline B a day? That's intense! I know that taking choline too regularly can cause depression, which is why I personally only take it every other day.

Perhaps you should consider just getting some Alpha-GPC since you actually are experiencing headaches. Did you start experiencing the headaches when you started your regimen of Piracetam, or is it something that you might not have noticed previously??

[#1stunna]

I am often tired on my own and was thinking about trying:


Piracetam (dose undecided)
choline citrate (dose undecided)
Alcar (2g or less)
Ginko (worth it? 50-150mg 2-3x per week)
Huperzine (1-3x week, say 50-200mcg)

This thread has officially turned me away from racetrams. I work and go to school and a cognitive boost would help but I am doing well on my own. I work at a hospital and we give Levetiracetam (Keppra) to patients with seizure history or if they are bipolar. I have a very fast paced lifestyle and am often tired, anything that could even potentially make me groggy is a no go and I'm not convinced this is as safe as advertised either. Same for Huperzine and acetylcholinesterase inhibitors....

The more I think about it the more I like Mbans first post on here and the basic stack he recommends.

[bernard]

Your experiencing headaches and taking 750mg Choline B a day? That's intense! I know that taking choline too regularly can cause depression, which is why I personally only take it every other day.

Perhaps you should consider just getting some Alpha-GPC since you actually are experiencing headaches. Did you start experiencing the headaches when you started your regimen of Piracetam, or is it something that you might not have noticed previously??

Yes I'm taking 750 mg Choline B/day. I don't think that's so much though. I've heard of people who are following a 1:1 Piracetam:Choline ratio however I think that's also too much.

Headaches are mild and have started just recently. I've began to feel midnight anxiety, meaning waking up in the middle of the night and being anxious about trivial things like "Why is my stomach making noises", but then I go back to sleep and when I wake up in the morning I'm fine again.

What can I say. The quest for brilliance is not for the weak-hearted. I can tell you this because I've history with other drugs some of them potentially life-threatening. Nootropics are not something you take because you want to learn your lessons a bit easier. If you do that it simply means that you are a moron. If you are looking to make a difference than that's something else. And if that's the case "safety" definitely shouldn't be your primary concern but effectiveness.

To the guy who's often "tired" and who needs a "cognitive boost" - listen pal, just drink some coffee and move on.

[#1stunna]

duly noted bro

[bernard]

About 30 days in...
Currently 2 x 2400mg/day

- Mild pain at left tibia bone area. (Possible clotting ? Left foot becoms numb easier when I lift it.)
- Mild pain at chest area.

Ideas ?

[bernard]

Another side that might be fake and a total coincidence:

- Oral Herpes Simpex and increased acne (not severe, but I don't have much acne, so I notice it when I do).

Possible immunosuppression or thyorid issues ? (Piracetam is known to affect thyroid medications. I don't take any thyroid meds however I did have an elevated TSH a couple of months ago.)

[bernard]

Weird new symptom - muscle cramps
Now we know that Piracetam is an adrenostimulator. I can definitely notice that I feel the need to urinate much more often, so it's possibly an elecrolyte/taurine defficiency issue.

Could it also be a thyroid issue, I know Piracetam has some effect on thyroid medication and I used to be slightly hypothyroiditic some time ago. Any ideas ?

[SuperjackDid_]

Interesting ,why i felt so much relive every-times i took taurine if i get irritability from Piracetam .

Piracetam also synergistic with thyroid ,but it tend to give me more irritability.

[SuperjackDid_]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2765169
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2137359
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2149831
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1410129

Those paper not told anything about lower aldosterone ,it not just simply piracetam lower aldosterone and we need boost it every times ,that false .


aldosterone is control for electrolyte and piracetam also have mechanism involve in calcium and magnesium ion relies on electrolyte balance by aldosterone

Please clarify if i'm incorrect.

[bernard]

Please clarify if i'm incorrect.

No offense but I'm barely able to understand what you are saying so I can't really clarify.

[depo]

What do you think is that all about ? This is just the start of my nootropic quest, I was looking forward to much much tougher stacks and now I crumbled at the very basic one. Don't know what to do.

Are you 101% confident it was top quality? I had similar issues - when I got Geratam, sealed tabs - oh my lord I was genius. Then I got tin of powder from eBay and it was SHIT, it wasn`t piracetam, but some crap.

[bernard]

What do you think is that all about ? This is just the start of my nootropic quest, I was looking forward to much much tougher stacks and now I crumbled at the very basic one. Don't know what to do.

Are you 101% confident it was top quality? I had similar issues - when I got Geratam, sealed tabs - oh my lord I was genius. Then I got tin of powder from eBay and it was SHIT, it wasn`t piracetam, but some crap.

Yes it's top quality. I bought it from my pharmacy. However I need to retract that statement. Sure I had it rough in the beginning with piracetam, but after a few tries later it all felt right and I was able to maintain 4.8g/day with no sides other than increased urination, taurine/electrolyte deficiency and increased sensitivity to something that's in onions/garlic.

Taurine/Electrolyte deficiency is easily fixable by supplementing with taurine and replenishing electrolytes. The other one I have no idea how to fix. It's just that whenever I was on piracetam if I eat onions and garlic even in small quantities my whole tongue became inflamed with stuff like aphtae.

Piracetam didn't make me any smarter but it helped a great deal with my anxiety issues. I've been off any medication and I don't feel anxious anymore. Maybe it potentiated the effect of Mentat that I took along with it. No idea. Fixed a lot of broken stuff in my brain though. Really grateful.

[SuperjackDid_]

Ae you sure taurine deficiency ?

could you explain more .

[bernard]

Ae you sure taurine deficiency ?

could you explain more .

No I'm not 100% sure. I used to take clenbuterol back in my bodybuilding days which resulted in the same heavy cramps that lasted for days. Clenbuterol however it's well known to cause taurine and electrolyte deficiency and supplementation with those fixes everything.

Now when I started Piracetam after 4-5 weeks I started to feel the exact same severe cramps that went on for days. I wasn't on any other medication. Once I stopped Piracetam the cramps went away. Some piracetam users report much better experience with taurine supplementation. Since taurine is an important amino acid for neural function I figured it could be the same.

I however am no neurologist so I have no way to prove this. But you could try it yourself and see if it helps.