21 replies to this topic

[boomer11]

After reading alot of contradicting reviews on PEA and selegiline, i decided to give it a try as an alternative to adderall for studying. I Find it works extremely well, and is much easier and cheaper than getting adderall these days. I dose selegiline about 2-4mg/day 5 days a week, and PEA around 500mg - 1000mg depending on stomach contents. It seems to hit me harder then 30mg Adderall XR ever did, giving a nice euphoria and great concentration. It doesn't last as long obviously (1-2 hours), but is so cheap that I can redose as long as I'm still studying.

But I'm wondering if this could somehow be neurotoxic... it just seems to good to be true. I also take in conjunction with various racetams, vitamins, fish oil, alpha gpc, lions mane, ALCAR and pyritinol. Is there any reason to believe that PEA + Selegiline could have long term negative impacts?

[Gorthaur]

As I recall the main problem with combining selegiline and PEA is hypertension. I once combined selegiline (1 mg liquid, sublingual) with just 50 mg l-phenylalanine and developed an intense, crippling headache for 12 hours due to hypertension. How is your heart rate and blood pressure on this combo?

Since PEA and amphetamine are such closely related molecules, and both release dopamine and norepinephrine, this combo does seem like a pretty good approximation of adderall. It should be reasonably safe if used infrequently at low doses. You'll inevitably get some tolerance/downregulation, and anything that creates a dopamine-induced euphoria is bound to be addictive. Since the excess dopamine is what causes neurotoxicity, any dopamine releaser can theoretically cause neurotoxicity. I think your best bet for making the most use of selegiline and PEA is to keep the PEA dosage as low as possible, below the level of euphoria.

[jcc80]

I wouldn't do it if you have ANY history of even moderately addictive behavior or abuse. The constant redosing becomes habitual and almost ritualistic.

It was like 'okay, I gotta call this client, time for a dose'. Not a good road to go down. One time after several doses, I actually blacked out briefly and fell down. That has never happened to me before or since.

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[boomer11]

Heart rate can really get going, not gonna lie. And as for addiction I don't think that will be an issue... Well it has sort of become addicting for doing some kinds of school work, but I don't use it "recreationally" aka when I'm not studying. Thought about doing it before goin out because it has an MDMA-ish feeling to it but I didn't wanna be "that guy" whos all fired up when no one else is on my level lol. I've done tons of drugs but never become addicted/started craving it... pretty much will only seek them out when I'm drunk or for a special occasion.

Anyone else have any input? And should I be worried if my heart rate gets to a certain point? I'm 21 and generally in good health... work out, eat right etc.

[golden1]

I've tried it and I would say that it is probably at least somewhat neurotoxic if amphetamine is. It's actually the most euphoric experience I've had(also felt incredibly dangerous) besides DMT+AMT(that is just indescribably infinitely euphoric, during it I thought I must have died because how could someone be alive and experience what felt like a euphoria of infinite magnitude and a myriad of quality.. lol... except that body wise it felt 100% safer than deprenyl+pea. no, I'm not saying to do it :P just can't mention it without describing it).

For me it slowed down my heart rate to an uncomfortable amount though...it was like I was a puddle of dazed euphoria, stopped listening to music because it made no difference.. hahahah. I would not do it again, but lower doses are probably less neurotoxic than ... idk lol. I mean it's not inhibiting all of your mao-b so the dopamine will still get metabolized at some point which is a mechanism for serotonin receptor neurotoxicity(also rather sure it released a ton of serotonin).

[gray.bot]

o0o0o0o I gotta get in on this. I've got questions and comments.

PEA around 500mg - 1000mg depending on stomach contents.

What do you mean stomach contents? Is it better to take the PEA with or without food. In the past I've always taken it on an empty stomach because that's what it said on the bottle.

I wouldn't do it if you have ANY history of even moderately addictive behavior or abuse.

You mean like being addicted to crack?

The constant redosing becomes habitual and almost ritualistic.

You mean like banging crack?

One time after several doses, I actually blacked out briefly and fell down.

:O HOLY FARK!!!

I've tried it

What dose where you taking?

Thanks.

[alecnevsky]

The only thing I was worried about is the MAOI irreversibility of Selegiline. But then there is this:

Results from this double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial demonstrate that STS may have a modest, but statistically significant, antidepressant benefit compared with placebo and a similar safety profile compared with placebo in the absence of a tyramine-restricted diet.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12633131

Still, aren't you concerned about MAOI irreversibility? Also if adderall is neurotoxic just in virtue of excess dopamine, wouldn't selegiline + pea combo seem like it has more side effects? Wouldn't modafinil work better for these ends? I will find out soon anyway...

"MAOIs (monoamine oxidase inhibitors, e.g., phenelzine, selegiline, iproniazid, etc.) — Do not administer amphetamine for a minimum of two weeks after last use of MAOI type drug. High risk for hypertensive crisis. Preliminary trials of low-dose amphetamine and MAOIs being administered together are in progress. However, this is to be done only under strict supervision of the prescribing parties."

That's from Wiki.

Edited by alecnevsky, 01 December 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[gray.bot]

As far as I'm aware with Selegiline, the MAOI "irreversibility" doesn't mean irreversible forever, it just means 3-4 weeks.

Modafinil will blast dopamine and give you a quite enjoyable high but only on the first dose or two. After that the dopamine receptors seriously down-regulate and any 'high' effects diminish.

All you are left with is the wakefullness promoting factors, and the other increases in memory, ability, strength etc... but you don't feel high anymore.

So personally I do not thing modafinil would work to any end and can't be compared to the high of crushed adderrall or dexamphetamine

The real highness that speed provides is what I understand is being described as the selegiline + PEA combination.

[alecnevsky]

As far as I'm aware with Selegiline, the MAOI "irreversibility" doesn't mean irreversible forever, it just means 3-4 weeks.

Modafinil will blast dopamine and give you a quite enjoyable high but only on the first dose or two. After that the dopamine receptors seriously down-regulate and any 'high' effects diminish.

All you are left with is the wakefullness promoting factors, and the other increases in memory, ability, strength etc... but you don't feel high anymore.

So personally I do not thing modafinil would work to any end and can't be compared to the high of crushed adderrall or dexamphetamine

The real highness that speed provides is what I understand is being described as the selegiline + PEA combination.

I thought we were talking about productivity and focus while studying. I had no idea we were talking about getting high. I suppose, sometimes, it takes one to be high in order to have motivation/begin work or something... whatever it is, it has nothing to do with actual performance.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[gray.bot]

As far as I'm aware with Selegiline, the MAOI "irreversibility" doesn't mean irreversible forever, it just means 3-4 weeks.

Modafinil will blast dopamine and give you a quite enjoyable high but only on the first dose or two. After that the dopamine receptors seriously down-regulate and any 'high' effects diminish.

All you are left with is the wakefullness promoting factors, and the other increases in memory, ability, strength etc... but you don't feel high anymore.

So personally I do not thing modafinil would work to any end and can't be compared to the high of crushed adderrall or dexamphetamine

The real highness that speed provides is what I understand is being described as the selegiline + PEA combination.

I thought we were talking about productivity and focus while studying. I had no idea we were talking about getting high. I suppose, sometimes, it takes one to be high in order to have motivation/begin work or something... whatever it is, it has nothing to do with actual performance.

I thought we were talking about significant euphoria and highness associated with massive dopamine dumped into the brain and creating this neurochemistry with seligiline pooling, sensitizing dopamine receptors and then flooding in more dopamine with its precursor PEA.

The euphoria and highness is seriously linked to memory, concentration and doing heaps of studying/work/learning/creating etc and as I was seeing it, these guys have been recreating this to get more done and increase awesomeness (thats a technical term)
 

It seems to hit me harder then 30mg Adderall XR ever did, giving a nice euphoria and great concentration.

I wouldn't do it if you have ANY history of even moderately addictive behavior or abuse. The constant redosing becomes habitual and almost ritualistic.

Only the euphoria/highness would create this addictive potential
 

Well it has sort of become addicting for doing some kinds of school work, but I don't use it "recreationally" aka when I'm not studying.

I'm talking about getting high to do schoolwork like boomer11, not for partying...

Totally talking about getting high

We are talking about the same thing - productivity and focus while studying - but I'm talking about doing it peaking off your tits. I thought everyone else was too.

Being high has everything to do with performance IMHO. Exactly as you said, increased mood and euphoria creates motivation and makes the activity enjoyable so you will continue doing it. Large amounts of dopamine have time and time again been linked to creating strong memories allowing for easier recall later on.

It still begs the question. What's the optimal dose of PEA to achieve this??

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Adaptogen]

so how safe long term do you think these are? i read that seligiline increased the lifespan of rats by some months so i think i will probably give it a try. can anyone refer me to a good online distributor? indian pharmaceuticals calling my name

[gray.bot]

Adaptogen I just PM'd you the supplier I've used to get selegiline. Plus it's arrived and I'm taking it now.

If anyone wants to know a where to buy Selegiline online please PM me. No prescription needed BTW.

I'm going to get some PEA and try this stack. How much PEA is recommended to take with Seligiline to achieve this awesome state dsicussed?

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 05:05 PM.

[Adaptogen]

what effects have you noticed from the selegiline?

[gray.bot]

To early to say, because the improved moved, excitement, happiness, satisfaction could be placebo...

But, some crazy thing I noticed... I take 100mg caffeine a few times a week when I need to buckle down and get thing done.

Caffeine usually makes me not eat for 5 hours and makes me a jittery, shaky, aggressive, uncomfortable. I don't drink coffee but green tea seem to be less.

But yesterday after eating caffeine I ate like 2 meals, wasn't jittery, actually had super smooth attention and focus and was awesome.

I attribute that to the Selegiline. I'll keep you posted.

What is the dose of PEA to get the effects described in this thread?

[boomer11]

Hey guys sorry I didnt check this earlier. And the best dose of PEA depends greatly on the amount of selegiline you take. I havn't experimented with anything higher than about 5mg seligiline per day. After taking that dose for about 2 weeks I would take 400-500mg of PEA. It would hit me in about 15 mins, and I would be extremely HIGH for 15-20 mins. The effects would slowly ware off and you become less high and your cognitive abilities seem to decline, and about an hour after it first hits, the dose no longer help you study and you need to take more. However the more you redose, the longer the residual effects last, so the less often you redose (I'm guessing because your slowly building it up). Its cool because it feels in a way like MDMA, but doesn't have the long shitty comedown. Sometimes I'd feel a little burnt out after my a long study sesh similar to adderall.

I remember looking at a study that used this combo to treat depression, and if i recall correctly it dosed 10mg seligiline, and only 60mg of PEA. My dose was likely more euphoric but I would GUESS that if you were taking 10mg selegiline per day you shouldnt dose PEA any higher than 100mg (this is total guesswork, il try it out when i order more selegiline from the cheaper source i found sometime next semester)

NOTE that these doses are on an empty stomach. 500mg on a full stomach had a much weaker effect.

[Geoffrey]

Please be careful mixing selegiline with phenylalanine. I got a horrible headache which disabled me for a day and a half when I took the latter while on a maintenance (weekly) dose of selegiline. I hate to think what it would have done to me if I'd been taking the selegiline daily.

[gray.bot]

I've been taking 500mg phenylalanine every morning with 4grams creatine as my usual morning wakeup drink. Ive been taking 5mg selegiline daily for 3+ weeks. No headaches or anything.

I sometimes remember to take my vitaminB supplements with the phenylalanine because B6 supports it's conversion to PEA. Most days I have high B6 diet anyway (I wasn't clear if the B6 had to be taken at literally the same time or just generally be available)

But all in all, phenylalanine doesn't produce any high effects (or any headache effect).

I'm still waiting for my PEA to arrive, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will be trying a bunch of different doses, stacks, intervals etc. I'll report back when I can.

Thankyou boomer11 for replying a great post on your doses etc - the information is greatly appreciated.

[BLimitless]

Another way of doing this is to use Kava Kava (MAOI-B kavalactone yangonin) and Raw Cocoa (Phenylethylamine, anandamide, theobromine, caffeine).

This combination is psychedelic beyond a certain dose level in a fashion comparable to low dose mescaline and may have seriously dangerous effects at higher doses. Regular use will definitely cause extremely dangerous health issues.

Edited by BLimitless, 03 January 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[gray.bot]

OMG I'VE GOT 3 KILOS OF REAL KAVA FROM FIJI RIGHT HERE!!! ZOMG!!!

Blimitless - what is your suggestion? Just keep drinking cocoa flavoured kava until I start tripping like I'm on mescaline?

DONE - I'll report back guys :D

[BLimitless]

No dude that will fucking wreck you.


Start at 3tbsp cocoa, 2tbsp kava, blended into a fruit smoothie with the addition of an oil (e.g. coconut oil, 30g) and soy lecithin for emulsification.

Wait 6 hours - it may just be me, but it takes a fair amount of time for the hallucinogenic effects to kick in. However prior to that there is a huge buildup of clean euphoria, stimulation and nootropic effect. I think this cocktail is exceedingly promising as a single-blast dose once in a while, when you really need to hammer through a stressful situation and pump out loads of work.


Using it regularly will lead to blood pressure issues and other problems from the combination of PEA with MAO-B inhibition, this may be fatal and by that of course I mean it MIGHT KILL YOU. This is a stimulant like amphetamine though admittedly nowhere near as harsh on the body. It may have addictive potential.

Edited by BLimitless, 04 January 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[qemist]

I found 50mg PEA while on long-term selegiline to be plenty.

[Flex]

As far as I know is mao-b located at the Glialcells and mao-a in the vesicle,
so I guess( but dont know exactly) its still neurotoxic if You do only inhibit mao-b.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22982254

In addition to that PEA/Phenethylamine causes on its own Oxidative stress, see:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23638910
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23575894