61 replies to this topic

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Everyone,

I have been holding this one under my hat for a while... (It feels like forever really).

I recently went to Paris and did an interview with Professor Fathi Moussa who published the paper titled “The extension of life span of rats by repeated oral administration of (60) Fullerene” recently published (April 2012).

It is only available here:
www.C60.net

Please link to the website if you want to tell folks about it because of copyright, oh... and excuse my horrible interviewing skills.
I hope it helps a few researchers, it certainly helped me.

Cheers
A

[xEva]

You did not specify that one needs to register with your new site in order to read the interview. I just wasted 15+ mins on this process and got nowhere. There appears many errors with the registration process. It is unfair to make unsuspecting people to be your free of charge testers.

[HHM]

I had same experience. Registration/login doesnt work

[Anthony_Loera]

It doesn't work?

Hmmm let me try it out again...

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[Anthony_Loera]

Wow, i apologize.

I will have it fixed in a bit.

A

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[joelcairo]

What purpose is served by forcing people to register?

[Anthony_Loera]

Hi Joel,

If you don't want to see the interview, then it is not important to you.

That's ok, just don't become a registered user. Many forums and sites are set up that way.

I think the registration is really fast now. You can simply do it right on the webpage that has the video. The login is on the same page as well, so now its a whole lot easier.

Cheers
A

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[Hebbeh]

Thanks Anthony! That was very interesting and informative. And answered many questions. Bravo!

[AgeVivo]

Great!! I was not sure what I could tell, I was planning to ask him next time I meet him (last time we were a bit in a hurry), that is actually the best way: he told on a video what he thinks, that the last rats were sacrificed, had not been found tumors (it was not o nthe paper so I wasn't sure about what I could say yet), and that he sent an application to the ITP. At some point he referred to my small experiment, nice ;-)

[Anthony_Loera]

Thanks Anthony! That was very interesting and informative. And answered many questions. Bravo!

Thanks Hebbeh,

I thought some of his answers really made my day, and answered some pressing concerns for some folks here.

I am honored he gave us a few minutes to answer some questions while we were in in Paris.

If you are concerned about toxicity, please see the video. I think his own words will make you realize a few things about C60 that most here were not sure about.

Personally, a few of his answers has made me believe C60 is something to consider giving to some big rodents of unusual size...

(i wonder who caught that movie quote...)

Cheers
A

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Edited by Anthony_Loera, 27 October 2012 - 04:37 AM.

[d4shing]

What purpose is served by forcing people to register?

This question was not answered, other than with "Well if you don't want to see the video, don't register!"

To what ends are we being asked to create wordpress accounts? Are we being signed up for some mailing list? Will we all be publicly invited to some google+ circle? Who knows. You can change your email address after registering to nospam@dontbotherme.com, though.

Anyways, whatever, video was okay but not exactly earth-shattering. A TL;DW would be: C60 is nontoxic, you can eat a spoonful of it and it's fine, it works as a lipophilic anti-oxidant, the mice in the study had no tumors at the end (which is unusual; old mice get tumor-y), and the study is being [might someday be] reproduced with more mice in 3 sites (with the C60 mice getting continuous dosing) in an NIH-funded study.

EDIT: I decided to edit this post and correct the error about the NIH-funded (ITP) lifespan extension testing, because people keep reading it and getting the wrong idea. It isn't happening. Moussa has submitted a proposal (or something). We HOPE that it happens one of these days. -moderator

Edited by niner, 28 October 2012 - 09:51 PM.

[AgeVivo]

the study is being reproduced with more mice in 3 sites (with the C60 mice getting continuous dosing) in an NIH-funded study.

it isn't: it *might* in the future, if the ITP selects it out of many proposals

Edited by AgeVivo, 27 October 2012 - 07:22 AM.

[Andey]

Thanks for your work Anthony )
I dont know how but I saw it yesterday without registration. I think that best way to identify users on such site is to give them option to login via openid ) You can use your google or facebook account etc and no need to remember numerous logins and passwords for numerous sites )

[niner]

What purpose is served by forcing people to register?

I found the Terms and Conditions to be worrisome...

[Various things you're not allowed to do]... You acknowledge and agree that the foregoing list of prohibited uses is exemplary, non-exhaustive, and provided for illustrative purposes only.

So there are undefined things that, should you do them, you are subject to the following:

By using any piece of Content (each piece is herein referred to as a “Work”) in a manner that exceeds the limitations of a Personal Use License, you thereby demonstrate your purchase of a revocable, non-exclusive, non-transferable, single-use license (a “Commercial Use License”)

For each Commercial Use License purchased, you agree to pay to us by bank wire, no less than two (2) days prior to the First Use Date, and at least ten (10) business days prior to beginning of any Renewal Term thereafter, a license fee of One Hundred Thousand U.S. Dollars (US$100,000.00). You acknowledge and agree that time is of the essence with respect to all license fee payments, and that in the event that you do not provide timely payment, you will be assessed and agree to pay a late fee of Eight Hundred, Eighty Thousand U.S. Dollars (US$880,000.00) for each license fee payment that is not timely received.

If you are a registered user of a C60.net website and have supplied your email address, C60.net may occasionally
send you an email to tell you about new features, solicit your feedback, or just keep you up to date with what’s going on with C60.net and our products.

Now, I know Anthony is a good guy, and he's been burned in the past by people ripping off his content and using it for their own commercial purposes, but still, this seems a bit much.

[Anthony_Loera]

niner,

The information on C60.net is free to read and watch by people who want to be informed.

However, to prevent inadvertent misuse of our copyrighted materials, we wanted to make sure that folks did not copy our material to other websites, unless they really really really wanted to, by paying us a commercial license fee.

The fact is that if you don't misuse our copyrighted material, then you have nothing to worry about. It's as simple as that. Just share the link to C60.net on Facebook, Google Plus, Twitter, email etc... if you want others to be informed by viewing our website for themselves.

But please don't copy our pictures, content or videos to other sites, ok? It's just not right.

Cheers
A

Edited by Anthony_Loera, 27 October 2012 - 02:40 PM.

[maxwatt]

Lawyers. Real Estate agents refer to them as "deal breakers". Seems like a similar function here.

I didn't see the part about sacrificing my first born in case of misuse of the material, but I've no doubt the lawyers put it in the contract

[Anthony_Loera]

Wow,

It appears I can't be allowed to protect our content from people who want to steal it and use it for their own commercial purposes?

Double Wow! .... Really?

A

Thanks for your work Anthony )
I dont know how but I saw it yesterday without registration. I think that best way to identify users on such site is to give them option to login via openid ) You can use your google or facebook account etc and no need to remember numerous logins and passwords for numerous sites )

I will see if we can do it, it would be much easier that way.

Thanks for the suggestion!

A

[Hebbeh]

I don't see a problem with having rules (legalize) to access a personal web site. All reputable sites and software use them for both liability and protecting intellectual property. Try installing any software without agreeing to respect the rights of the developer. And if I were Anthony, I certainly wouldn't want competitors to steal my intellectual property and hard work for their own personal gain. And theft occurs blatantly on the internet all the time. It has occurred to Anthony before and it happens all the time. I'm sure there are even people accessing this site that are guilty of internet intellectual property theft. Anthony isn't the first savvy businessman on the internet to put some teeth into protecting their copy writed material and work. Seems like too many feel entitled to take whatever they want from the internet as if it is free for the taking without respecting a person's hard work and investment. If it's the internet, it should be free, right? For those criticizing Anthony, I hope nobody ever steals anything from you or you that you don't get to enjoy the fruits of your labors due to thieves.

Edited by Hebbeh, 27 October 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[Krell]

Wow, i apologize.

I will have it fixed in a bit.

A

Follow me on Google Plus: https://profiles.google.com/113037236572014252197

I tried to register yesterday and got an ID and password in your email.

Your system did not allow me to log in yesterday.

Today it still did not allow me to log in.

WTF?

[hav]

Anthony, I think the better way to protect your legitimate interest in being credited with the creation of this important video would be to watermark it. I personally think that both copyright and unconscionable licensing by adhesion are not the best ways to protect your legitimate interests in what is essentially a news video. (Except maybe in Bangladesh.) I'm assuming it was intended as news and that the person interviewed wasn't a paid actor employed to do a promotion. If it was a paid promotion, that fact would impact the credibility of the content and its omission might be considered by some to be misleading. Sorry for this criticism because I really do appreciate your bringing us the information in this interview at what was obviously no small expense and believe that your heart really is in the right place.

I am flabbergasted to learn with such apparent certainty that the c60/evoo treated Wistar rats in the Baati study died of old age and not the cancerous tumors that otherwise always cause their death. That fact was not revealed in the paper and only rumored up till now.

I'm disappointed that the limited duration c60 treatment these rats received may or may not have affected their non-cancer related longevity. We just don't know either way because we don't know how long Wistar rats normally live if they don't die of cancerous tumors. Because it doesn't otherwise happen. But the news that more studies are underway with groups of 200 rats that will continue the c60/evoo treatment until death is likely to answer that definitively.

I suppose this is none the less good news for the rest of the life extension industry. For instance, if c60/evoo isn't the cure for aging, telomere lengthening may still be relevant.

But this should headline anti-cancer news. Baati and company seems to have found a possible prevention or delay regimen for cancer. I infer from the study numbers that olive oil alone delayed death from cancer an average of 2 months while c60/evoo at least delayed cancer in these rats an average of 18 months. The news of new studies under way that will continue c60/evoo until death will hopefully shed more light on whether the anti-cancer effect is delay or permanent prevention. The possibility of the eradication of cancer is just huge.

Howard

[niner]

I have NOTHING against protection of IP. My problem is that the contract is written in such a way that RevGenetics could decide that "thinking about the interview" is commercial use. Yes, I know that's a ridiculous example. What if you paraphrased it on a commercial site? What then? The point is that the contract is WIDE OPEN as far as putting users at risk. That's my complaint, NOT the protection of IP.

[AgeVivo]

But the news that more studies are underway with groups of 200 rats that will continue the c60/evoo treatment until death is likely to answer that definitively.

NO !!! AGAIN, NO!!! We HOPE that the ITP will accept to do the study.
To me, the difference is huge and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IT for the cause: because there are MANY things to test on lifespan every year, and VERY FEW robust lifespan tests are actually been done. I consider it to be THE BOTTLENECK OF LIFE EXTENSION SCIENCE. Especially with the current state of knowledge where we don't know in advance what will extend lifespan or not: we need much more of such tests to guide the development of anti-aging strategies, otherwise most research is wishful thinking.

If you are not convinced look at the limited number of tests done by the ITP since 2004: http://www.nia.nih.g...mpounds-testing Think of the few robust additional lifespan tests you've read about (robust I said: 10 ?): think of Spindler's studies that have not been published over the last 1.5 year or so (why is taking so long?). Compare this small number with all the promising compounds that we think should be tested every month... I wish a generous donator enters and allows many more tests.

But this should headline anti-cancer news

Pr Baati now has become a good friend but it is not published and not repeated yet, so let's wait for similar conclusions to be repeated before shouting. To be efficient, science requires some robust testing, if you don't want to build on sand and discover later that you have to unconstruct all and build at a new place, with moderate credibility.

Edited by AgeVivo, 27 October 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

Wow, i apologize.

I will have it fixed in a bit.

A

Follow me on Google Plus: https://profiles.google.com/113037236572014252197

I tried to register yesterday and got an ID and password in your email.

Your system did not allow me to log in yesterday.

Today it still did not allow me to log in.

WTF?

Yesterday when I first heard about the issue, the site was found to have some issues that were made by a plugin.

We had to start from scratch, so if you happened to have made a login yesterday that had the issue, we'll we erased the database and that included about 2 or 3 logins that were failing at the time.

The website is working now, and there have been a lot of new registrations without issues.

A

Follow me on Google Plus: https://profiles.goo...36572014252197' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'> https://profiles.google.com/113037236572014252197

[Andey]

NO !!! AGAIN, NO!!! We HOPE that the ITP will accept to do the study.
To me, the difference is huge and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IT for the cause: because there are MANY things to test on lifespan every year, and VERY FEW robust lifespan tests are actually been done. I consider it to be THE BOTTLENECK OF LIFE EXTENSION SCIENCE. Especially with the current state of knowledge where we don't know in advance what will extend lifespan or not: we need much more of such tests to guide the development of anti-aging strategies, otherwise most research is wishful thinking.

Are you aware about large screening on mice project that was going now in Russia ?
Its declared as $10m worth with 1000 substances to screen. Control group for them is calorie restricted mice (obviously they have also a normal feeded control group). As I understand each group is 200 mice size and total mice population is over 200k.
Now mice are around 35 month old.
At 33 month mark only 20% of normal control group are alive, about 70% of CR group. They found around 15-20 new working substances and some comparable for effitiency with CR.
Unfortunatly screening didnt include fullerenes in it (it was started before all this buzz with rats) but results might be stunning.

Edited by Andey, 27 October 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[niner]

The possibility of the eradication of cancer is just huge.

Well, it would be, if that's the case. That might be overstating it, though- remember, one of AgeVivo's mice recently died with a large tumor on the lung. It could be argued that C60 prevents cancer (at least in Wistar rats) if it's started early enough. Would that be true in humans? Could it possibly make cancer more likely if started later in life?

[AgeVivo]

Are you aware about large screening on mice project that was going now in Russia ?
Its declared as $10m worth with 1000 substances to screen.

oh? wonderful!! How come was I not informed about it?!. Who is doing it? What is the list of things being tested (and dose/age). I am sending you a PM.

[JohnD60]

Anthony's site is free, so no one has a right to 'complain' about it. And, I am not complaining about it. I am just saying, I will wait till Anthony decides to put the video for free on youtube before viewing it. I would think that a big "c60.net" super imposed banner on the video would be more effective in preventing piracy than a log in that could be easily circumvented by someone with moderate motivation.

[Hebbeh]

I assume Anthony is not just using the account log in and legalize to protect IP but in the bigger scheme of things, preparing for customer accounts and big rat disclaimers when he brings his C60/EVOO to market. Unfortunately, in today’s world, we all would be advised to protect ourselves from liability of potential lawsuits from individuals that don't wish to take responsibility for accepting personal risk when volunteering to be self-imposed lab rats.

[trance]

It's already on his web site:

http://www.revgeneti...l-solution.aspx

[Mind]

I'll wait until it is free on youtube.

The possibility of the eradication of cancer is just huge.

Well, it would be, if that's the case. That might be overstating it, though- remember, one of AgeVivo's mice recently died with a large tumor on the lung. It could be argued that C60 prevents cancer (at least in Wistar rats) if it's started early enough. Would that be true in humans? Could it possibly make cancer more likely if started later in life?

Rats vs. Humans. Big difference. We don't know if the C60 effect is applicable to humans and we don't even know if the original Baati study can be replicated. Proceed with caution.