45 replies to this topic

[kagalive1985]

Phenylethylamine (PEA) Log

High Dosage (5 grams) Experiences
By Kagalive (your friendly guinea-pig)

(Phenylethylamine (PEA) chemical structure, aka the love drug).

So today I am trying a high dose (around 5 grams) of Phenylethylamine ^(PEA). In my experiences doses like this flood the bodies normal PEA metabolic pathways causing PEA to cross the blood-brain barrier. This log will chronicle my subjective experiences with this chemical.

PEA is the chemical known as the "love drug" and is found in small amounts in chocolate. Generally it is extensively metabolized by monoamine-oxidase and some people use it alongside a Monoamine-Oxidase-Inhibitor ^(MAO-I) such as Hordenine (Supplement) or Mertazapine (Prescription Drug). Generally if you use an MAO-I you need a much lower dosage of PEA to feel the effects. I would not under any circumstances recommend anywhere near a 5 gram dose if you are taking any MAO-I drugs.

When it does cross the blood-brain barrier PEA exhibits several nootropic and mood enhancing properties. It can also illicit a high and as such may be addictive. Generally it is claimed to enhance focus, concentration, improve mood and counter-act depression. Side effects include Anxiety, Bruxism (Clenched Teeth) and Potential Addiction/Withdrawal (with chronic use). Tolerance also seems to build quickly to this drug so reserve it for when you really need a boost. ^{_{(Once a week maximum, preferably monthly or less, especially in high doses - lower doses may be safe to use daily but I have not researched this).}}

For reference this morning (about 2-3 hours ago) I also took 4.8 grams of Piracetam. I am also a smoker and have had about 6mg of nicotine since waking up. (About 4 hours ago). I have access to several other nootropics and racetams (ani/oxi/prami etc)... but am avoiding taking them to try to get a more smooth-viable appreciation of the PEA. I have also had some caffeine earlier in the day. (About 200mg total).

As far as cost goes I got 200 grams of PEA for about $50.00 USD. Generally though smaller amounts (25-50g) cost about $20-$40 on popular auction sites. Several online suppliers also provide access to this chemical but are generally more expensive than the auction sites.

NOTE: This dosage is quite high and possibly dangerous. I have built up to this dose over several months and have a lot of experience with this drug. As such I do not recommend you try this high dose. (An average dose is 250-500mg making this 10-20 times the regular dosage suggestion).

LOG:

(Time period is in hours:minutes beginning at Time 0.)

+0:00 5 grams of PEA taken about 1 hour after eating lunch, taken with water. The taste is strong and unpleasant and was promptly followed by several peppermints to counter the horrible aftertaste.
+0:08 Breathing speed and heart-rate seem to have increased slightly, this is currently the only observable effect.
+0:12 I've noticed I seem to be salivating more than normal. Minor bruxism (clenched-teeth) is also observed. A general wave of energy and a mood lift is also beginning to be noticed.
+0:15 Generally noticed an increase in excitement and stomach-butterflies, this may be purely anticipation and a placebo-effect however.
+0:20 Focus is dramatically increased, hyper-focus is observable and enhanced concentration. Possibly mild hypo-mania. General euphoria and 'feeling good' vibes. Excitement throughout body.
+0:25 Hyper concentration and mild euphoria is observable at this stage. Generally great mood and a feeling of 'on-top-of-the-world' is noticeable. Definitely beyond placebo. Heart rate seems increased. There may be an increase in blood pressure here, but I have no way of measuring it. A slight nauseous stomach is noticed as is a mild head-pounding (not really aching and somewhat, surprisingly, pleasant). Concentration is dramatically enhanced and normally mundane-repetitive tasks are easily completed. This may be a miracle drug if used during examinations, as I feel my IQ is temporarily boosted. Memory seems also enhanced and more vivid/clear.
+0:30 A strange sensation now, feel like I may be coming down. It's slowly getting harder to concentrate as I return to baseline. The 'high' was quite nice but it definitely did not seem to last long. I expect with co-commitant use of an MAO-I the duration of the 'high' would be dramatically enhanced, although I have not verified this. Heart rate feels slower but still 'heavy'. Bruxism is gone, but my tongue feels weird at the moment, sort of furry. Appetite is completely eliminated as is my desire to smoke. ^{(At least for now).}
+0:35 Definitely slowly coming down now, returning to baseline. Focus is still enhanced as is concentration. Euphoria is quickly fading and dysphoria is slowly taking hold. Depending on the intensity of the come-down this may not be worth it. ^{(Time will tell on this however.)}
+0:40 Music sounds better (listening to the radio at the moment). Colors do not seem enhanced. Generally good mood and optimistic life-outlook at the moment. Anxiety and depression not present currently.
+0:45 Heart rate is increased dramatically and I seem to be sweating. I am convinced my blood pressure is up despite being able to measure it. Hyper focus and concentration is still without-a-doubt present. I am beginning to think this is at least as powerful as Modafinil (Provigil)/Ritalin and/or adderal. (Athough I haven't tried any of these).
+0:50 Coming down now with out a doubt. This was definitely beyond placebo effect and was quite an intensive high.
+0:55 I am surprised this is legal considering the level of 'high' you can achieve with this drug. It is comparable to many street drugs.
+1:00 The infamous 'Shulgin' , author of the Pihkal (Phenylethylamines I have known and loved) was qouted as sayind pure PEA was inactive because it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. I can now say with 100% confidence this claim is false. In high doses or with use of an MAO-I PEA is extremely psychoactive. The number one downside is the 'high' doesn't last very long, and the come-down is quite dramatic (although it does not last long). I have also noticed through prior experience if you continue to re-dose tolerance appears almost instantly, and if you keep at it you pretty much pass out (fall asleep) as you become overwhelmed with intense tiredness. I feel like I am pretty much back to base-line now (come-down almost over), so I will end this log here.




Comments:

All in all PEA is a remarkable experience. Definitely worth trying at least once, but probably not in the high-extreme dosage I attempted today. I think if you are new to PEA 1-2g would be enough to get the full experience, with a reduced come-down. Remember the recommended dosage is only 250-500mg daily, so if you do attempt a mega-dose like this do not do it too often. - I have also read that PEA may down-regulate dopamine receptors, and also increase Nitric Oxide (NOS) levels in the brain to potentially dangerous levels. If in doubt please contact your medical professional before taking this substance. None of these statements have been evaluated by the Food-and-Drug Administration (FDA USA), and none of this is under any circumstances medical advice.

Please use the rest of this thread to offer comments, ask questions and related queries to the chemical Phenylethylamine (PEA). Thank you for reading this log, my apologies for it being somewhat long, thank you for having the patience to read it all...

[alecnevsky]

First, thank you! This was pretty much the question of my thread.

Were these effects speedy in a way that would make it uncomfortable to study/work or were the effects generally congenial for study settings?

Have you tried or have you thought about trying a more reasonable dose with a MAO-I ?


Also, re:

I am beginning to think this is at least as powerful as Modafinil (Provigil)/Ritalin and/or adderal. (Athough I haven't tried any of these).

Why then do you suppose it is so?

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 October 2012 - 05:44 AM.

[kagalive1985]

No problem

I haven't got any MAO-I other than hordenine to combine it with. I tried combining it with Hordenine once and it seemed to work for roughly double the amount of time as without it.

Regarding my comparison to other stimulants I'm basing it purely off what I've read about those, I'm itching to try Modafinil but it's not exactly cheap so holding off on it for a while.

Warm Regards

Also forgot to add, they are speedy but not 'out of control' I think taking this before an exam might be good but if the exam goes for 2-3 hours you'd need a way to redose - you wouldn't want to come-down in the middle of the exam as there seems to be a bit of brain fog.

Edited by kagalive1985, 28 October 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[kagalive1985]

One more note, if you are thinking of using this daily please stick to a maximum of 1000mg a day. (2x500mg doses). Doses this high should probably not be repeated. (Although forgivable if you tried it once or twice!).

[kagalive1985]

So to update...

I did a silly thing and redosed 10 grams of this shiz. It has given me an insanely variable HR and I'm convinced my blood pressure is approaching dangerous levels. I hope this will be worth it, I'm certainly "high" right now.

More when I come down because I don't think I'll make a lot of sense right now...

Sorry

Your guinea pig pal,
Kagalive

[alecnevsky]

I haven't got any MAO-I other than hordenine to combine it with. I tried combining it with Hordenine once and it seemed to work for roughly double the amount of time as without it.

Interesting! My conjecture exactly, although I didn't even know hordenine was a MAOI.

So, would you rather take more PEA or take less PEA with a MAOI in terms of efficacy and safety?

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 October 2012 - 05:27 PM.

[Introspecta]

The first time I took PEA It hit me like I had taken Ecstasy. I only took 1gram on a completely empty stomach in the morning. Effects lasted for about 30 minutes. I also discovered that the claim of needing an MAOI was false. After that experience I threw the bottle I had away because I didn't want to get addicted and found the effects to be too intense for what I was looking for. My E days were in the past and I"m not really looking to get "messed up" these days. Oh one other effect I noticed was extremely high libido. Waves of pleasure moved throughout my body. So basically if you want to get the most out of your PEA take it on an empty stomach.

[inw]

Very interesting, I saw Beta-Phenylethylamine HCL with Kanna,Hordanine, Caffeine,Vinpoetin, 5-htp and some other stuff in some nutritional supplement pre-workouts and fat burners and people are getting the 'high' effect. It looks like their proprietary blend could have a slight mega dose of the PEA to give that effect.

[Ames]

At lower doses you would need an MAO-I. At higher doses, PEA acts as its own MAO-I. That's why higher doses without an MAO-I are effective, and lower doses require an MAO-I. At lower doses, there isn't enough PEA to neutralize the available MAO, at higher doses there is. PEA is so cheap that, as long as you have a good idea of your MAO threshold (who really does?), you don't need to bother with an MAO-I. The advantage of a separate MAO-I is that you can neutralize the MAO and then dose the PEA very precisely. Without a separate MAO-I, its extremely difficult to know exactly how much PEA is active in your system. So, going the separate MAO-I route seems much smarter from that perspective.

I have some PEA on hand, on the off chance that it would help with mood and/or ADD, but I haven't had the stones to try it yet due to a lot of negative reports around the internet. Although, a lot of those reports notably come from people using heavy doses with MAO-I or who are otherwise using it to get high on a regular basis. I'm looking for a non-euphoric boost. As a rule of thumb, euphoric responses are an indication of tolerance to come.
Currently, I'm utilizing the CILTEP stack, which is another reason that I'm hesitant with the PEA. Although, I'm also curious to notice how those two would interact. The short duration of the effect on the O.P is discouraging, but perhaps that was just the duration of the euphoria? I'll be interested to read if there are any lingering 12-48 hour effects, nootropic or otherwise.

I wonder what would stack well with this to eliminate the possibility of blood pressure/cardiac symptoms. A beta blocker, perhaps, such as propanolol? I am NOT a doc, however, and have no idea how these would interact of if it would be effective for its intended purpose. It could very well be dangerous. Perhaps one of the docs/med students here will weigh in.

Edited by golgi1, 29 October 2012 - 03:33 AM.

[kagalive1985]

UPDATE

So I went and trialled taking another 5-6 grams (A heaped teaspoon) of PEA today. I have noticed the effects came on very quickly, My Heart Rate seems elevated and my head is pounding. For some reason though what would normally be an intense headache is seemingly pleasant. My face also feels flushed and I think my body temperature is up, this is of minor concern because I read PEA can cause Hypothermia during the comedown...not looking forward to this!

I would not recommend trying these doses, stick to the 500mg-1000mg range. I think the come-down would be a lot lower and you would feel more in control of the high. (It's a little bit of a struggle to keep a handle on things at the moment - I feel like my brain is in overdrive). The experience is somewhat taxing so I wouldn't recommend doing it very often. (Maybe once a month).

As a side note I struggle with anxiety especially during family functions normally but a few weeks ago I took some PEA before the event and noticed I was extremely sociable and anxiety was not present, however when the come-down came on I found myself overwhelmed with brain-fog and redosing did nothing to help. (Instant tolerance for the loss!)

I am concerned about long-term consequences of abusing this drug (receptor downregulation and NOS levels may be toxic). Oh well someone has to be the Guinea Pig - NO REGRETS!

Namaste,

-Kaga

[inw]

Cool info on PEA, I'm in benzo withdrawal from a prescribed dose (never abused) so I'm looking for some fix that is non-addictive b/c everyday is a roller coaster

[stuntdiver]

interesting affects, long term use with increased heart rate and blood pressure doesnt seem safe though my friend, tried breaking the doses in half maybe taking 2nd dose after 2 hours or so?

[kagalive1985]

UPDATE

So today I tried 3 x 5 gram doses spread throughout the day, on top of Phenibut. I've noticed the effects last up to 3 hours instead of just 1 hour with this, although I have read this combination can cause seizures in some people so be very cautious. All in All I got a LOT of work done and am still very focused.

I really wish I had access to a BP monitor but I don't. I just got my new Nexus phone so i'll get a HR app for that and post my intermittent results in a moment.

More to come as soon as I've installed that phone application and started the measuring.

Peace, Love, Hugs and Warm Stuffs - Namaste,

Your Guinea Pig/PEA Pin Drinker Extraordinaire

- Kaga

[alecnevsky]

Not that you should do this but, ideally, it'd be great to see this tested against Adderall/Ritalin or other amphetamines as people are looking to substitute those out of their stacks. I think I actually may be in a great position to do this as a habitual adderall user. Thank you for megadosing though. Once I get my order of phenylpiracetam and PEA, I'm going to do my Phenylpiracetam versus PEA versus Adderall test. I'll update the log in this thread.

[kagalive1985]

UPDATE

So I had trouble getting my phones handset settings so was unable to download and use the HR app. I estimate my HR to be around 120 though. Still wishing I had a way to monitor blood-pressure.

All in all I've had 20 grams of PEA today (a huge amount) spaced 2 to 3 hours apart. I've been able to maintain the high/focus without too much of a come-down. This morning I also had about 3 grams of Phenibut and I'm not sure of the interactions this may have caused although it does seem to have dramatically reduced any Phenylethylamine Anxiety. - The high is best described as "smooth".

I have never tried Adderal, Ritalin or Modafinil but I have done street amphetamines before. This PEA is comparable but does not last anywhere near as long. I will endeavor to get my paws on Hordenine or another MAO-I and try a lower dosage of this highly potent chemical. (Probably try 500mg first and build to the full 5 grams if necessary).

Later tonight I will do one more 5 gram dosage for a total of 25 grams. (Quite Expensive). I definitely do NOT recommend trying this at home or attempting to implement this somewhat careless/reckless experiment.

As an aside appetite is down dramatically so I wonder about the potential of this as a weight-loss drug. I wouldn't recommend it for this purpose but it was an interesting observation nonetheless.

I also think this may be a state of hypo-mania so people with bi-polar should definitely avoid. It's easy to make bad/impulse decisions/purchases on popular auction sites and you feel almost completely compelled to spend every last cent you have. (It seems like such a good idea at the time but in hindsight it more-often-than-not proves otherwise). So stay away from shopping and/or gambling. (Especially online which is so easy to click a button and spend!)

Thank you for reading this and I will keep updates coming as I continue this experiment.

Namaste,

Your PEA Guinea Pig Friend,

- Rick (Kaga)

[Ames]

O.P., you're being irresponsible. What's the point to 20 grams of PEA? And on top of Phenibut? Why? The last thing this forum needs is a member stroking-out or going to the hospital for other reasons as a result of a stack that he was logging in a thread. This type of regimen would seem to be more at home as a 'trip report' on erowid.

Remember, the results likely won't be bad until they are.

[stuntdiver]

so KAGALIVE 1985 I tired 4 Grams of PEA and had the same affects as you except the high heart rate and blood pressure, tested it to see how i want to create my nootropic stack. But im going to stick with 2 grams in the morning and then 2 grams after lunch, it was a bit to much to focus but the euphoria was there indeed.

[kagalive1985]

This Experiment is Now Over

I am going to take at least a few days/week off from all PEA dosing after yesterday's binge.

Stuntdiver let me know how you go with the 4 grams 2x2 of the PEA.

Your Friend
Kaga

[protoject]

I'm not trying to be a total Duck-head but honestly ... why?? This is just plain overkill. Bluelight, drugs-forum, erowid. Sounds like a much better idea. Go there and post about it. Redosing 10 G.. .LIKE.. WTF> > > ... seriously. And holy does the PEA ever make blood pressure whacky. This is just overkill, yeah sure guineapigging is nice once in a while if you have good reason but there is no common sense or purpose here... it's like .. hey guyyys Im gettin high on PEA... wooh! Seriously , much more sensible option would be low doses , or really low doses with a mild mao inhibitor, geeze not even sure if I'd recommend that personally. PEA.. such a strange beast... I heard selegiline raises PEA levels in the brain. Psychotic individuals may need to beware..

[gizmobrain]

This thread reads like a trip report from Bluelight or Erowid. In fact, I've read several that sound exactly like this. Phenibut and PEA always seems to bring out the reckless addict side in people.

Edited by zrbarnes, 31 October 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[alecnevsky]

I'd rather be getting "high" on PEA than dealing with adderall side effects from what it looks like.

[stuntdiver]

31OCT2012

UPDATE...

2 Doses PEA w/ 5HR Time Split

1st DOSE WITH FOCUS XT, 1G Piracetam, 1G Choline Bitartrate, 2G PEA

• 1st dose :20 minutes in the focus effects started taking in, awakened a bit from the FOCUS XT. reading speed was defiantly increased.
• :25 minutes into slight euphoria nothing like 4grams defiantly could stay focused and sound of music was extremely crisp. Every sound I could hear as a separate tone as if i could pull just that instrument out and hear it. If you understand my description..
• Went to lunch.. Had Seafood, one beer,12oz water and a lemon mint drink. The effects lasted a solid 1Hr before bam I hit a wall.. Lol I wanted to take a nap.. didn’t help i was running on 5 but still i was ready to snooze a.s.a.p. Which was probably interaction with the Beer.
• Slowly I had a headache set in which wasn’t that bad but noticeable.. Personally i thought it was more dehydration.
• So ended up I did not take my nap. Following some shopping came back to take my 2nd Dose. Still Slight headache.
• 4Hours Headache went away.
• Exactly 5 hours on the dot i took the 2nd serving of 2Grams just PEA.
• :20 minutes again slight effects felt nothing that was overbearing or uncomfortable just slight euphoria.
• Decided to take that nap.. 6Pm i fell asleep 8Pm i woke up... I thought i slept for a lot longer, vivid dreams and i felt pretty good. I woke up like "damn that was a great nap"
• I went and ate a late dinner something this time 2 Light beers, Salmon and Sea bass, Salad, French Fries, No headache.. came back..
• Again after i got back from dinner, I prepared for work. I laid down for bed at 2:45 Am, woke up at 4:45 Am and felt the same way again like i slept a lot longer, vivid dreams as well. Woke up like a feeling pretty great again.

Nothing else was noticeable or it would be posted.

Ill post my next trial for todays tom. as well.

[Galaxyshock]

This is just retarded. You're playing with fire megadosing this chemical that for example is in high endogenous amounts linked to schizophrenia.
Phenibut is PEA-antagonist so you clearly have no idea what you're doing.

[stuntdiver]

Well hey put refrences to warnings if people are fucking up. I dont think being rude to the person is going to help any way. lol, but it should be safe if you space them apart. Check the half life of both chemicals.

PEA half-life aprox 5 to 15 minutes
Phenibut aprox is 5 hours

Have a question on calculating half life Youtube it.. Educational videos

Edited by stuntdiver, 01 November 2012 - 11:20 AM.

[MrKappa]

I tried this recently. One day dissolved in water, about 2 grams. Nothing at all... unremarkable.

The next day... I tried it ingested all at once, 1 gram only. Wow... sort of hit me like a little hammer.

Not euphoric... more like heavy mellow...

Not sure if I like it as downers, like weed, or alcohol are unappealing to me.

Hope that helps.

It's the stuff they put in chocolate... I hardly think that... oh wait... it makes me wonder if chocolate poisoning which happens in dogs the same way it does in humans, might be an issue with this stuff...

Nope... no way... it's called...


Theobromine poisoning


http://en.wikipedia....omine_poisoning

Anyways... about 10 or 15 minutes later, I'm feeling sort of down... or withdrawn from whatever effect it was supposed to provide.

If I do it again... I will most certainly be dissolving it in water.

Edited by MrKappa, 07 March 2013 - 06:16 AM.

[medievil]

wtf is this shit

[leftside]

I think the original poster was completely wasting his PEA. Try 700mg PEA with 300mg Hordenine and 1g Tyrosine and you will get a good/focussed/stimulated (but not "cracked out") feeling. I really like it, but limit this to once every 2 weeks.It really is one of the joys of the natual supplement world.

Once you've tried the PEA + Hordenine + Tyrosine you can also throw in one of Phenylpiracetam, Yohimbine, Modafinil, etc. As with anything that is "good" be careful. Definite addiction potential here.

I do the PEA + Hordenine + Tyrosine mix one week (8am) and then 1500mg Phenibut another week (6pm).

[medievil]

Whats therapeutic about something that lasts half an hour, better put it in a pipe so you can keep toking, sounds pleasant too.

[leftside]

No way mate. Lasts all day for me with Hordenine. Even better with Selegeline

[medievil]

Pay me some and ill try then well talk, dont beleive ya but might be too lazy to read it all...