46 replies to this topic

[tintinet]

Tintinet
Yes, maybe it's just the placebo effect, but isn't it amazing how almost everybody has the same effect?
C60oo alone seems to produce the effects you have described to some extent in the older more damaged large rats, myself included.
Epitalon, may well magnify the benefits of C60oo and I hope it does, however so far we only have the statements of the products vendor and now yourself in favour of epitalon.
I certainly don't mean any disrespect to you or the vendor, I do hope what I am reading is factual and for what it's worth I hold your statements in higher regard than the vendors at this time.

Having a product which could reliably extend telomere length would go a very long way to beating ageing, especially for those of us who can't afford to wait the next 25 to 50 years for SENS to rejuvenate us.

Mike

The only thing I've really noticed is vivid dreams. And I don't think almost everyone taking C60, at least, has claimed to have experienced significant effects. I certainly don't.

[hav]

It looks like you consider all telomerase activating agents as pro cancer and vice versa - why ? Am I miss something ?

Oh boy! Now thats a big can of worms you are opening Andy.

I dont think I could put it better than this:
http://www.anti-agin...inhibit-the-expression-of-telomerase/

So it seems to me that nature is cleverer than we give it credit for and that substances that de-activate telomerase in cancer cells have the opposite effect in healthy cells....?

I feel that taking breaks from any.all supps is a good idea and take more of the known anti cancer supps when off the known/suspected telomerase activation supps.
I do try to get some overlap of supps. ie: mix it up a little...


If anyone has any newer info on supps that suppress telomeras in normal cells; please post!

Here's a couple of studies on the antioxidant silymarin that confused me a while back but might be consistent with ideas in blog you linked... that some antioxidants might be telomerase inhibitors to cancer cells but also function as telomere protectors for normal cells. This study finds silibinin, one of the primary constituents of silymarin, inhibits telomerase in prostate cancer cells, thereby taking away their immortality:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15076315

while on the other hand, silymarin acts as a telomere protector in normal cells, shielding them from the effects of a powerful telomerase inhibitor:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20838231

Which sounds like the best of all outcomes to me. But I'm not sure this reasoning extends to telomerase activators, as opposed to telomere protectors. Although the Isagenix folks contend that silymarin is in fact a telomerase activator. I'm not prepared to believe that myself until a study proving it is released.

Howard

Edited by hav, 18 November 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Logic]

Every single paper that Vince cited in his review was looking at cells in vitro, where they are inevitably given doses that are far larger, and of far longer magnitude than could ever be achieved in a human. For many compounds, such as resveratrol, the result you see with a given cell is dose dependent- at high dose you see one thing, while at low dose you see the opposite. The vast majority of in vitro results have no relevance at all to humans taking anything close to normal doses.

I have seen at least anecdotal evidence that resveratrol has anti-cancer properties at very high doses, but you'd better be taking a lot. (10+ grams/day? maybe more.) Here's a paper looking at hepatic cancer in humans, but it's only a safety/PK study, no clinical results. They use a specially formulated version of resveratrol that is a lot more bioavailable than plain resveratrol. There are some promising hints of an increase in an apoptosis marker.

I agree Niner, but in lue of other evidence; this, and ancedotal reports, is all I/we have to go on.
A lot of my cleanout regmn is based on the dosages here:
http://www.lef.org/p...lymphoma_02.htm
http://www.lef.org/p..._factors_02.htm
If you have better advice please do post.

Edited by Logic, 19 November 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[Logic]

Here's a couple of studies on the antioxidant silymarin that confused me a while back but might be consistent with ideas in blog you linked... that some antioxidants might be telomerase inhibitors to cancer cells but also function as telomere protectors for normal cells. This study finds silibinin, one of the primary constituents of silymarin, inhibits telomerase in prostate cancer cells, thereby taking away their immortality:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15076315

while on the other hand, silymarin acts as a telomere protector in normal cells, shielding them from the effects of a powerful telomerase inhibitor:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20838231

Which sounds like the best of all outcomes to me. But I'm not sure this reasoning extends to telomerase activators, as opposed to telomere protectors. Although the Isagenix folks contend that silymarin is in fact a telomerase activator. I'm not prepared to believe that myself until a study proving it is released.

Howard

Thx Howard.

If I remember correctly; there was talk here about Silymarin being a telomerase activator, but that the dosage reqd was impossible to achieve?

I do take Milk Thistle extract almost daily however.

[Logic]

Alcohol and C60oo + Epitalon: Not a good combination:

The combo seems to allow me to drink more and be in a party mood for longer. ie: I carry on partying long after I would have called it a night due to lack of physical and mental energy.

The next morning brought only a mild hangover and by last Friday evening I was ready to go again! Something that did NOT happen before the combo:
I never went out two nights in a row as I just felt too 'toxic' and in a bad mood to do so.

Fridays party carried on way beyond what should have been my limits though and I ended up on this forum making a tit of myself...
The hangover was once again mild, but I did not want to go anywhere or do anything for the rest of the weekend.

So leason learned: I end up awake, if not sentient, and doing stupid things, way after I should/would have called it a night.

[niner]

Here's a couple of studies on the antioxidant silymarin that confused me a while back but might be consistent with ideas in blog you linked... that some antioxidants might be telomerase inhibitors to cancer cells but also function as telomere protectors for normal cells. This study finds silibinin, one of the primary constituents of silymarin, inhibits telomerase in prostate cancer cells, thereby taking away their immortality:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15076315

while on the other hand, silymarin acts as a telomere protector in normal cells, shielding them from the effects of a powerful telomerase inhibitor:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20838231

Thanks for the links, Howard. A couple thoughts: The telomerase in a cancer cell may or may not be identical to the telomerase in a healthy cell. Since telomerase is variably expressed, I would guess that the mutation that causes it to be "stuck in the on position" in a cancer cell is in the promoter region, so that the protein itself is identical. It functions as a protein-RNA complex, though, so there are other places where changes could occur between normal and cancer cell telomerase. Secondly, in a cell where telomerase is normally inactive, a telomerase inhibitor, no matter how powerful, will do nothing. It won't shorten the telomeres. The main thing that shortens telomeres, aside from cell division, is oxidative damage.

[daouda]

Hey Logic, any update on this epitalon+c60 "experiment"?

[Jule]

Hello!
I have also been reading the posts here and are on my path to longevity. Previously only with diet, exercise yoga, meditation which goes along long way towards anti aging, drinkng plenty of water and basic supplements like Q10, fish oil and resveratrol.

Today my Epitalon arrived and I have taken the first does of 3mg and I have also ordered C60 from the Vaughtner site and will be trialing them both together very soon. I also do the dermal rolling for wrinkles which works!
I would like to know from the experienced people on here about others who are trialing both epitalon+c60 and there recommendations?
Like taking both daily and the dosage of both for a female 60kg? Also about giving a break of one and why? How long to use both together? Like I said I have been trying to follow the posts on here and what they are doing but there's alot of different info...So just thought I'd ask? Especially if your girlfriend's or wife's have been taking it and their benefits. Dosages they are on for success and I know everyone is different...
I am late 40's ( I don't take on board an actual age number for the psychological mind programming that comes with it and also what society places on age.) I do look youthful however my eyesight has deteriorated, body aches and pain from age are taking away from life enjoyment. So I am hoping that these two combined supplements will be able to work their magic on me. And some skin tightening wouldn't go astray.
Love to hear your views and keep this posts going on epitalon+c60 "experiment.

[solarfingers]

Hello!
I have also been reading the posts here and are on my path to longevity. Previously only with diet, exercise yoga, meditation which goes along long way towards anti aging, drinkng plenty of water and basic supplements like Q10, fish oil and resveratrol.

Today my Epitalon arrived and I have taken the first does of 3mg and I have also ordered C60 from the Vaughtner site and will be trialing them both together very soon. I also do the dermal rolling for wrinkles which works!
I would like to know from the experienced people on here about others who are trialing both epitalon+c60 and there recommendations?
Like taking both daily and the dosage of both for a female 60kg? Also about giving a break of one and why? How long to use both together? Like I said I have been trying to follow the posts on here and what they are doing but there's alot of different info...So just thought I'd ask? Especially if your girlfriend's or wife's have been taking it and their benefits. Dosages they are on for success and I know everyone is different...
I am late 40's ( I don't take on board an actual age number for the psychological mind programming that comes with it and also what society places on age.) I do look youthful however my eyesight has deteriorated, body aches and pain from age are taking away from life enjoyment. So I am hoping that these two combined supplements will be able to work their magic on me. And some skin tightening wouldn't go astray.
Love to hear your views and keep this posts going on epitalon+c60 "experiment.

Jule, I was thinking about trying the dermal roller to deal with pot scaring from acne. It would be an added plus to get rid of wrinkles. I have been using epitalon+c60 for a few weeks. From what I gather from others is you won't really see any physical results from the Epitalion till after about a month of use. I have noticed that my skin is a little tighter and has a more youthful look and feel. I'm only taking 2mg a day as apposed to the 3-4mg a day others are taking. I can't really tell anecdotally if c60 is doing anything. Yet it is one of those things where feeling nothing BAD is better. I have some planter warts on my hands and have been keeping an eye on them. At first I thought it was my imagination but I do believe they are getting smaller. Only time will tell if Epitalion and c60-oo is doing the good we hope it is. Good to have you in the forums.

[Jule]

Sorry trying to understand how to post on here using the quote....But obviously haven't got it yet!

Solar
Definately worth you trying for acne scars, my daughter is also about to use for her acne scaring also.....You really need to read and research and make sure you buy a dermal roller needle length at least 1.5 or better 2 to get the benefit of collogen renewal under the skin and kick in your bodies natural repair response ....This can only be done every 5 - 6 weeks.... I also use a 0.5 weekly but it does not reach below the dermal layer enough to allow collogen renewal, but does allow my skincare products to penetrate the skin better and I love the tightening firming effect.
It's not for the faint hearted because it hurts but you get used of it. So yes give it a try if you are determined that you no longer wish to see the pot scarring or at least want your skin more even toned and smoother...Like anything works over time (months as your skin takes min 3 weeks to turn over) and not just in one time thing.

Thanks for the welcome to the forum!
Can I ask why you choose the dose 2mg is that because you are younger? Should we give these supplements a break at any stage? Or continually take them? Your thoughts?
Thanks!

[solarfingers]

Sorry trying to understand how to post on here using the quote....But obviously haven't got it yet!

Solar
Definately worth you trying for acne scars, my daughter is also about to use for her acne scaring also.....You really need to read and research and make sure you buy a dermal roller needle length at least 1.5 or better 2 to get the benefit of collogen renewal under the skin and kick in your bodies natural repair response ....This can only be done every 5 - 6 weeks.... I also use a 0.5 weekly but it does not reach below the dermal layer enough to allow collogen renewal, but does allow my skincare products to penetrate the skin better and I love the tightening firming effect.
It's not for the faint hearted because it hurts but you get used of it. So yes give it a try if you are determined that you no longer wish to see the pot scarring or at least want your skin more even toned and smoother...Like anything works over time (months as your skin takes min 3 weeks to turn over) and not just in one time thing.

Thanks for the welcome to the forum!
Can I ask why you choose the dose 2mg is that because you are younger? Should we give these supplements a break at any stage? Or continually take them? Your thoughts?
Thanks!

No, I'm actually a young 52. I read most of Khavinson's work and he said that the ELDERLY could benefit from as little as 1mg. I expect that people are taking more than they need and being that it is so expensive I thought I would shoot at a smaller dosage. I'm thinking there is a real benefit on staying on Epitalion for life if possible since the benefit would go away once you stopped taking it. c60-oo on the other hand was only administered to the test rats during a fraction of their lives and they lived twice as long. I plan on staying on both. I'm taking Epitalion for 3 months and taking 1 month off. The reason is simply to save enough money for the next 500mg. I hope that Epitalion will come down in price as interest picks up. You might want to read my thread on supplementation reaching the 7 SENS targets. My profile shows my current regimen which is based upon this study. As my friend Logic says, supplementation is always a work in progress. I'm thinking about giving a dermal roller a try. I've always been into self abuse. Do you take a collogen supplement? I'm also thinking about adding this to my regimen. Jim Green said he applied collogen to his skin.

Edited by solarfingers, 21 August 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

I've decided to stick to melatonin. From everything I've read, the two are related and melatonin might provide additional benefits as a brain antioxidant.
I also take C60, and have for almost a year. I believe that the consensus, though not unanimous is to dose intermittently .
I take about 20 mg per month.
Finding the right balance of supplementation isn't easy. It's tempting to continually add more stuff. I've tried to combine, eliminate and simplify my regime over the years.

[solarfingers]

I've decided to stick to melatonin. From everything I've read, the two are related and melatonin might provide additional benefits as a brain antioxidant.
I also take C60, and have for almost a year. I believe that the consensus, though not unanimous is to dose intermittently .
I take about 20 mg per month.
Finding the right balance of supplementation isn't easy. It's tempting to continually add more stuff. I've tried to combine, eliminate and simplify my regime over the years.

That's a good bet. I take melatonin at night as a sleep aid with L-triptophane. I'm taking 15ml of c60-oo every two weeks. I'm actually trying to reduce the amount of supplements so I agree it's tough.

[sthira]

So what happened here? It's been awhile since you've posted your experiences.

[Logic]

So what happened here? It's been awhile since you've posted your experiences.

I has!
The reason being that I have not taken either since around Xmass 2012 and have been in Africa working on a gold mine. This leaves very little time for this forum and bandwidth is patchy and expensive.

Its been so long that I cannot reliably comment on the effects or lack thereof as they fade over time.

I will say that I would be back on both (+ the telomerase activation stack) in a heartbeat if I could afford it, but am in the process of starting up my own gold operation atm, so money is very tight.

[mikey]

 

Tintinet
Yes, maybe it's just the placebo effect, but isn't it amazing how almost everybody has the same effect?
C60oo alone seems to produce the effects you have described to some extent in the older more damaged large rats, myself included.
Epitalon, may well magnify the benefits of C60oo and I hope it does, however so far we only have the statements of the products vendor and now yourself in favour of epitalon.
I certainly don't mean any disrespect to you or the vendor, I do hope what I am reading is factual and for what it's worth I hold your statements in higher regard than the vendors at this time.

Having a product which could reliably extend telomere length would go a very long way to beating ageing, especially for those of us who can't afford to wait the next 25 to 50 years for SENS to rejuvenate us.

Mike

The only thing I've really noticed is vivid dreams. And I don't think almost everyone taking C60, at least, has claimed to have experienced significant effects. I certainly don't.

 

 

I saw an amazing reduction in the depth of wrinkles with daily C60oo (7 ng/day) use over a period of months.

 

After Turnbuckle reported scars fading I noticed that two scars on my face had faded almost to invisibility.

 

Four days of 10 mg of epitalon has done just as much to melt wrinkles.

 

The last of my wrinkles that wouldn't go away with C60oo is a furrow inside my left eyebrow.

 

It has melted to almost being invisible with the epitalon. It is amazing.

 

I've been slightly interested in epitalon for a couple years. Now that I'm using it, it seems like it might be a very potent anti-aging tool.

 

So I have added 10 mg of thymalin to the epitalon, because of study of the two and will do them together in two week cycles every few months. TBD, as I learn more.

[Huckfinn]

Hi Mikey.

How do you take the Epitalon and where do you buy it from?

 

Thanks!