188 replies to this topic

[nupi]

That's total and utter crap.

The 50s called, they want you back.

I have been pursued by some very high quality girls (two of whom became friends when they found out I was gay, and went on to marry some very high quality alpha men later on).

I don't think you can compare that - at all. Almost by definition, as gay guy you would not have any of the confidence issues when interacting with girls (of whatever type), in fact you would be a kind of superalpha, almost. And while we're at it, men pursuing men is not in any way comparable, either.

[chris106]

This thread is a very interesting read - well, at least the last couple of pages when it actually went back to the topic of supplements. Some of what came before was very entertaining, though.

But to the point - I can just second everyone who said that MPH is not the solution for your problem.
In my book, amphetamines even less so. I had the same problems as you, NUPI. PLus I have very grounded self-esteem issues because I'm quite short for a guy. All that (except my actual height, of course) changed when I started taking MPH 6 years ago - it helped me to take initiative, pursue what I wanted, and it just felt realy good to finally have confidence and not having random thoughts of doubt and negative outlooks rule my mind and slow me down.
I should add that I indeed was diagnosed with ADD-PI by a doctor who was a specialist on that field - so I thought taking it could do no harm at all.

I even got to know my EX-girlfriend (who is way better looking than me) when i was on that stuff, and was on an off it during our relatinship, too.

BUT - In the end there is no free ticket! Had I had the (still basic) knowledge about how the dopaminergic system works in conjuction with the other neurotransmitters, I would have never even started that stuff!
The downsides are just unavoidable - terrible crashes when the stuff stops working, short half-life (at least for me), therefore overdosing, consequent hypermania and even more horrible crashes, doing stupid stuff I regret, hurting people, becoming socially akward and unpredictable regarding mood swings, distorted self-perception - the list goes on and on and on!

After 5 years of experience with it,(and some temporary very positive effects I won't deny) I can safely say for myself that everyone, who claims this drug can be controlled, or is harmless, or doesn't cause long-term damage to the receptors, just doesn't know what he's taking about! And don't even get me started about side effects....
It took months for me to adapt to a somewhat normal way of motivating myself again.

Long story short - if the positive effects of MPH were sustainable, or if there was a solid way to countermeassure the harsh side effects through added supplementation - believe me, I'd be the first to take it again - because while the stuff is working, it's great. But let me tell you, I have searched long and hard in various ADHD forums - and there isn't a way.

That's why I let go of it for good, and that's why I got into nootropics and this great community.

All that being said - how is your adaptogen stack working? I've had quite stable results with Rhodiola, Schisandra and Mucuna myself, but am not quite satisfied with it.
But so far this is (unlike various racetams) the first class of substances that has helped me at all - so I'm very interested in your success!

[nupi]

Interesting points. It seems like it is quite individual whether MPH is sustainable or not - I know a couple of people with ADHD-PI who seem to manage using it on an ongoing basis without any major issues. Were you using instant or sustained release formulations?

[Major Legend]

ADHD pretty much impairs everything, including the ability to chat up women - there are a few factors at hand - the lack of executive function makes it hard to plan, play out a date or the seduction process, the lack of focus is unattractive as a trait, women like guys who can focus, low latent inhibition means ADHD guys are easily over stimulated and act out stupidly. ADHD baically means no self control, and no self control is really unattractive. ADHD people are unable to filter out noise, whilst this is great for some things that require being extremely sensitivity - when it comes to leading and attracting a women its an incredible disability. Something that people with normal executive control cannot comprehend at all.

I keep my ADHD under control using an extremely complicated systems of alternating medicines and supplements that prevent me from developing tolerance. I do not use hard hitting drugs like amphetamines or MPH, both of which are rather synthetic in its effects - even then my regiment means I'll be out of it for 2-3 days a week, though improvements in my system has reduced the days to more like 1 or 2.

AMP/MPH provide temporary and synthetic solutions to ADHD that does not last, there are too many reasons I can't be bothered to explain, but bottom line is MPH and amphetamines are powerful stimulants that make you jittery, gives you tunnel vision, makes you emotionally cold and emotionally unstable.

I actually think MPH is worse than AMP.

[nupi]

so what is your regime?

[chris106]

Major Legend, I whole-heartedly second everything you wrote.

Also I've found that through a lot of training and self-conditioning it is possible to overcome said lack of executive functioning you mentioned regarding interaction with women (or people in general) - at least to some extend.

That's one of the few positives of taking MPH in restrospect - it showed me that my feeling of inferiority wasn't rooted in the fact I'm rather short or "unlikable" for the other sex, but in the way my brain works, which makes it so hard for me to gasp how these intercations between men and women work - I can register how others do it and act it out, but when I try to "mimic" it, the "feel for it" is often not there.
Often some of my more "alpha-male-y" friends would ask me, what my big problem is, and at the time I felt like they were mocking me (which didn't make sense at all, because they really are good friends) - I then realized that they just couldn't comprehend the way I think or feel - just like you said above - they were completely clueless...

That being said, I'm optimistic that there are other ways to fight the ADD(-PI) symptoms - in the end it's just to find something that acts on Dopamine in the right way in the PFC, right? Increasing overall receptor-density (if that even really is possible) would be a good idea, too, I guess...
Speaking of which - naturally I'm very interested in you regimen, as well, Major Legend - Please tell us!


And to NUPI:
I tried pretty much every form of MPH there is - instant and sustained release. The first had a very short have life and horrible crashes, the latter didn't work well and was unsustainable - your experiences may differ, of course.

Coming to think of it now, I need to kinda turn what I said above into perspective.
I guess if I hadn't had MPH back in my early twenties, I might not have had the courage to pursue my goals and conquer life the way I did. But as I said, I would use it ( or Amphetamines) only as a last resort if everything else fails - and only for a limited amount of time. It elevates you in some aspects of life and social interaction, but definetely drags you down in others if taken too long...
Like I said above, I believe there are other substances which are less harmfull and "character corrupting" in their side-effect profile...
As Major Legend said - those really are some quite nasty chemicals in the long term - it totally kills your empathy with people, and that's one of the few positives that ADD can have, if used right...

And...oh yeah - what about your adaptogen stack?

Edited by chris106, 26 April 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[nowayout]

What is MPH?

[KoolK3n]

AMP/MPH provide temporary and synthetic solutions to ADHD that does not last, there are too many reasons I can't be bothered to explain, but bottom line is MPH and amphetamines are powerful stimulants that make you jittery, gives you tunnel vision, makes you emotionally cold and emotionally unstable.

I actually think MPH is worse than AMP.

Personally, nearly every side effect is attenuated with coadministration of low-dose Klonopin. The sensation is similar to a mild speedball. Vyvanse+Klonopin=NZT all day. Of course tolerance develops 😢. Also, methylphenidates (MPH) in terms of neurotoxicity is safer than amphetamines. Not only are AMPHs a releaser of DA, but also effects several other neurotransmitters.

[nupi]

That's one of the few positives of taking MPH in restrospect - it showed me that my feeling of inferiority wasn't rooted in the fact I'm rather short or "unlikable" for the other sex, but in the way my brain works, which makes it so hard for me to gasp how these intercations between men and women work - I can register how others do it and act it out, but when I try to "mimic" it, the "feel for it" is often not there.
Often some of my more "alpha-male-y" friends would ask me, what my big problem is, and at the time I felt like they were mocking me (which didn't make sense at all, because they really are good friends) - I then realized that they just couldn't comprehend the way I think or feel - just like you said above - they were completely clueless...

That sounds awfully familiar - although on a rational level, I recognize that I am actually a fairly good catch. Can I capitalize on it? Absolutely not - I don't even dare trying.

As Major Legend said - those really are some quite nasty chemicals in the long term - it totally kills your empathy with people, and that's one of the few positives that ADD can have, if used right...

I lack empathy anyhow, so not much that can be lost there. Docs refuse to properly diagnose me for some bizarre reason, but I am fairly certain that I qualify for ADD-PI (I definitely have the hyper-focus part of it and can easily be distracted when not in hyperfocus plus I am disorganized as anyone who has ever seen my desk would concede) and some of the autism spectrum disorders (they are hard to delineate anyhow).

As for my stack, I have downscaled it a lot - the adaptogens did not seem to do much (Schizandra perhaps being an exception, need to mess around with that again). Now it's down to
* 40mg Fluoxetine
* 1-2 AOR MultiBasics 3 Caps
* ~3g Fish Oil
* ~300mg Mg (from Mg-Malate)
* 3-6mg Astaxanthin
* ~2mg K2
plus generous amounts of Coffee and some Green Tea on a reasonably (but not perfectly) clean diet that could probably do with more greens. This results in a relatively comfortable life but barely any motivation to do anything...

Edited by nupi, 27 April 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[chris106]

Personally, nearly every side effect is attenuated with coadministration of low-dose Klonopin. The sensation is similar to a mild speedball. Vyvanse+Klonopin=NZT all day. Of course tolerance develops 😢.

Well, I guess I can see how a stimulant and a benzo would somewhat cancel out each others side-effects - but this really doesn't sound like a safe combination in the longterm, and furthermore one that may do more harm than good if taken too long. If you get of that, wouldn't you have tolerance and wtihdrawal from TWO substances, or am I thinking wrong here?

As for my stack, I have downscaled it a lot - the adaptogens did not seem to do much (Schizandra perhaps being an exception, need to mess around with that again).

Yeah, I hear you -_-
First the adaptogens were working quite good - but I had them all in extract form without realizing it. I then read that (at least with mucuna) this is not safe in the long run, and that I should go for organic, whole-plant powder. Naturally I am a bit dissapointed because the stuff is much weaker - I don't wanna have to swallow 12 pills at once per serving... I will have to check if at least Rhodiola, Cordyceps and Schisandra are safe to consume iin extract from, with Mucuna I know it's not... Maybe if taken with Green Tea extract?

Guess I'll try out the Uridine stack next - it's always frustrating if something first works, but then stops working.... :(

[chris106]

But good luck getting a dock even considering that, they label everything as depression and go all zoloft on their patients. I wonder if there is an online sourse for vyvanse?

Damn, I always thought Sweden had the best health-care system there is? I guess the trick is to find a doctor who specializes in ADD. Hadn't i found one, I would have never gotten prescribed Ritalin either. And if you have Depression as comorbidity (secondary symptoms resulting from the struggle with ADD), an ADD expert or specialist won't hesitate to prescribe you SSRIs on top of that, either...

I guess checking out a swedish ADD-Forum would add you greatly in search of such an expert....

[nupi]

I don't think it's the health care system (the one in Switzerland is superb as well, if incredibly costly) as much as doctors' strong reluctance to hand out MPH to adults - especially when you have had straight A's (except in French, boy I hated that language) all your school years long (never mind that I continuously forgot or lost my materials).

Even now, on a good day, I actually benefit from the hyperfocus traits in my ADD-PI. It's just that the more I get into a management role, the less helpful that trait becomes. And in any case, it really only works if I have at least a passing interest in the topic at hand - it just so happened that most school subjects I had that for (ideas and concepts in general, much less so for concrete action), so I was all fine and dandy in school...

[chris106]

Sounds familiar. I can work very well ina controlled environment, but as soon as I have to manage things for myself, let alone for others I cecome very irritated. Like I said, search for a proper ADD forum and find a specialist near you, it really isn't that hard. Once you find the right doctor who specializes in ADD, it's easy to get the stuff prescribed!

[nowayout]

Sounds familiar. I can work very well ina controlled environment, but as soon as I have to manage things for myself, let alone for others I cecome very irritated.

If that is a sign of ADD, then almost everybody has ADD. Everybody functions much more easily in a familiar controlled environment.

Edited by viveutvivas, 29 April 2013 - 07:59 PM.

[chris106]

Sounds familiar. I can work very well ina controlled environment, but as soon as I have to manage things for myself, let alone for others I cecome very irritated.

If that is a sign of ADD, then almost everybody has ADD. Everybody functions much more easily in a familiar controlled environment.

Well, not exactely. -_-'
Maybe I should elaborate a bit. I tried working in such non-controlled environments before I was diagnosed ADD-PI and tried studying economics. I had to learn three times as much as colleagues who've had much worse grades coming out of school. When I still was in school I could still somehow manage through compensatory mechanisms, but that didn't work at university anymore, because there was objectively much more to learn AT ONCE. I slowly understood that I couldn't handle that many multiple tasks at once and was terribly defficient in anything that demanded logical thinking and planning. I tried to compete for months until I had a complete mental breakdown. That was 7 years ago.

I then found a line of work /study where I could put my creative/emotional skills to use and have been pretty happy ever since. That being said, during the time I took Ritalin( which was after my economics studies), I could in retrospect have easily handled the stuff that made me have a mental and psychological breakdown just one year before. Still, don't really recommend Ritalin to anyone, don't get me wrong - since it's no long-term solution in my eyes...

To sum it up - please spare me with these generalizing "It's not ADD but laziness" - type of comments, I don't think they add anything to the discussion, and just don't belong in this kind of thread. (No offense, really! )

And, oh yeah - MPH stands for Methylphenidate which is the active agent in Ritalin.

Edited by chris106, 29 April 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[nupi]

Everybody functions much more easily in a familiar controlled environment.

If controlled=micro managing, then absolutely not in my case. I function best in an environment with little distractions and directional feedback. And, it took me almost 30 years to recognize this, I absolutely CANNOT multi task. It's so bad that I can either listen to what people say (content) or how they do it (voice, body language) but not really both at the same time.

I can think logically but not plan for my life....

Edited by nupi, 30 April 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[nowayout]

Everybody functions much more easily in a familiar controlled environment.

If controlled=micro managing, then absolutely not in my case. I function best in an environment with little distractions and directional feedback. And, it took me almost 30 years to recognize this, I absolutely CANNOT multi task. It's so bad that I can either listen to what people say (content) or how they do it (voice, body language) but not really both at the same time.

I can think logically but not plan for my life....

No, I mean controlled = no distractions.

Almost all people function better without distractions, and recent research showed that even people who say they can multitask actually function just as badly when multitasking. So they are actually suffering from delusional overconfidence. So what you are saying is not diagnostic of ADD. While many people function better on stimulants, that is not diagnostic of ADD either.

Now it is quite possible that your problems in this regard are worse than the average person's to the point of pathology, but I feel this thread is becoming sidetracked. These symptoms are not specific to ADD. You are basically saying you have problems concentrating. Many people who are depressed or suffer from anxiety also struggle to concentrate in the face of external distractions. It is a symptom of depression and of GAD as well. And stimulants are actually a quite good short term treatment for depression as well in many people - that does not mean these depressed people have ADD.

It seems to me, from all you have said, that you have issues with depression and social anxiety. Of course that will make it hard for you to concentrate. Tacking on another DSM diagnosis for every single symptom is not going to make things clearer.

Why do so many people use party drugs like alcohol, pot, stimulants like cocaine and ritalin, MDMA, etc.? To make them confident and reduce social anxiety, of course. Social anxiety is not even pathological, if you consider that the majority of people socialize with at least alcohol. I think the people who do best socially in our society often just happen to be the ones who have a good response to the most common available party drug, namely alcohol, and the people who do badly are the ones who, for genetic reasons, don't respond well to it (alcohol makes me morose and mopey, and I do just as badly as you socially). If you want to justify your use of stimulants in social situations, say, by saying you have ADD, that's fine, but not necessarily honest. At least the people who use coke or ecstacy or vicodin for the problem are not being dishonest by claiming some diagnosis to justify it.

Edited by viveutvivas, 30 April 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[nupi]

What you say is mostly true. However, I would hold against it a very simple concept (which BTW was just reinforced to me a couple of weeks ago by a surgeon in a slightly different context [1]): A disease/disorder exists when the patient feels like he is constrained by it (ignoring special cases like psychosis). Whether or not that is within what others would consider normal human behavior/circumstances does not really matter all that much.

As you mention, not everyone's social anxiety is addressed in sufficient ways by alcohol. It is not for me (even though I enjoy drinking for it's anti GAD effects, if nothing else). Personally I do not need any excuse to take whatever drug that helps me getting closer to my target state but apparently doctors need it.

[1] He was saying that if Ibuprofen did not cause an appreciable difference in pain, that I might just as well quit taking it as by definition, patients perception of pain is what matters.

[chris106]

It seems to me, from all you have said, that you have issues with depression and social anxiety. Of course that will make it hard for you to concentrate. Tacking on another DSM diagnosis for every single symptom is not going to make things clearer.

Good point, actually. I guess I misunderstood what you said in your post above, so it's good you elaborated.

Still, even for a good psychiatrist it's hard to judge or differenciate between a form of depression or ADD-PI (I don't have ADD or rather ADHD, but ADD-PI - I get confused sometimes because in Germany ADD-PI is actually called plain ADD...) That means I don't have so much problems with hyperactivity and too much stimuli not being able to cancel the unimportant ones out, but can't focus or motivate selectively.
While this are of course also symptoms of depression or social anxiety, it's always hard to judge what came first - do I show ADD-PI symptoms because of my depression or did I get depressed because of having to deal with ADD-PI symptoms for years?

Many poeple who suffer from ADD or ADD-PI get depressed and anxious in the long term, and begin to avoid social interactivity to a certain extend because they can't deal with it normally. If they retreat more ffrom social activities a full blown social anxiety can develope, but as a comorbidity BECAUSE OF ADD or ADD-PI being there in the first place. - It's quite common.
So I guess it's not the best judgement to say you can only have one or the other, they can overlap and that has to be paid attenbtion to, even when it comes to the question of medication.

Personally I don't trust the judgement of psychiatrists anymore, at least not with the german healthcare system... Or rather I'm tired of finding a good one, and trying diffferent things over the "official routes" takes way too much time IMO. I don't care what which name or title one would give my symptoms - be it ADD-PI or Social anxiety - I just want them gone.
I'm instead gonna learn as much about brain-chemistry as I can on this forum, and as soon as I get the basics and understand what causes which symptoms, trying to erdicate them with various suggested supplements or stacks until I hit the right spot.

So far it's going good, my current adaptogen stack did decline my symptoms quite a bit, anbd while it's by no means stable, I allready vastly prefer this to the overstimulated, fake feeling of being on amphetamines....( my personal opinion, again) So i wil search on.

This method will of course require quite a bit of trial and error, as well as some money-investement - but I intend to see it through. Cause it seems to me to be the only way to certainly find a way to keep my symptoms in check without going the plain pharma route...

If you want to justify your use of stimulants in social situations, say, by saying you have ADD, that's fine, but not necessarily honest. At least the people who use coke or ecstacy or vicodin for the problem are not being dishonest by claiming some diagnosis to justify it.

Just to clarify - I never said that. If you actually read my previous posts, it should be obvious that I advised against taking MPH or amphetamines, because they are not stable. Also I don't know many poeple who openly run raound proclaiming they take party drugs, they do it somewhat discretely - but as you said let's not digress.

Just wanted to make that clear - my experiences with MPH and Amphetmaines were mostly negative in retrospect and I wouldn't suggest it to anyone. Maybe a s a temporaly, short term solution at best - definetely not for overcoming social anxiety in the long term....

Edited by chris106, 01 May 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[machete234]

I then found a line of work /study where I could put my creative/emotional skills to use and have been pretty happy ever since. That being said, during the time I took Ritalin( which was after my economics studies), I could in retrospect have easily handled the stuff that made me have a mental and psychological breakdown just one year before. Still, don't really recommend Ritalin to anyone, don't get me wrong - since it's no long-term solution in my eyes...

What line of study was that if I may ask?

I have seen what you describe with university in myself and others, others had break downs and had to change their whole subjects.
Like me I had to change my subjects and lost years studying "wrong" things.

It could be my circle of friends but this seems to be something that happens really often also to people who where good in school.

[chris106]

I started (and finished last year) studying acting. While it too requires a lot of cerebral work ( learning and memorizing lot's of dialogue ), it's mostly based on physical and emotional work on oneself. Vastly improving in these fields also somewhat helped me keeping my symptoms in check.

I still feel handicaped because of my ADD-PI in many situations, but in this line of work, in some instances it's even an advantage.

Of cours having ADD-PI doesn't make you the perfect candidate to pursue an acting career, but it was waaayyyy easier and more enjoyable for me than studying economics, that's for sure! :3

Edited by chris106, 06 May 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Doktor]

So glad to see testosterone mentioned in this thread!

I myself have made MASSIVE strides in my social skills and fear of talking to women; I used to be paralyzed with fear, and now (years later), my last serious girlfriend was very good looking, confident... aka. No hangups... it's been a LONG path. As mentioned earlier in this thread, two things above all else will improve your self-confidence above all else

1. Exposure therapy - This can (as in my case) be as simple as forcing yourself into the worst of situations you fear... it took me years, but my self-confidence has improved monumentally. Just keep plugging away!

2. Testosterone (for males) - Go to the gym god damnit! Not only will your health improve (which will consequently help), but you'll look better, AND if you lift heavy with compound lifts especially, the increase in testosterone will make you feel and behave far more like an alpha male over time. There is actually quite a bit of evidence that directly ties testosterone to the natural phenomena of the alpha male. I can attest from experience, that when i am hitting the gym at least 5 days a week and lifting heavy, I often feel almost like a god among men... hard to describe. I have good muscle tone and am slim, but I'm not massive... its an internal feeling that I suspect is highly correlated to the surge in testosterone you get from a solid heavy weight training program.

I am also prescribed Vyvanse, and it does help you maintain and initialize social interactions... but the two things above changed my life extremely drastically. Anyone who is lacking in self confidence, PLEASE! Exercise is SO under-utilized by people now-a-days for its amazing benefits... please do yourself a favor, and give it an honest shot. It has literally changed my life in more ways and with greater magnitude then I could ever possibly express.

[socialpiranha]

Everyone thinks their childhood was a better time when they get older, Back in the fifties and sixties though sexual assault of women was very common and almost accepted. So was physically dominating women at home. Alcohol was a much bigger problem because men were less intelligent and had less control of their basic instincts.

Every generation has its code of ethics to try to curb basic instinct, and its governed by public opinion(embarrassment, social outcasting etc) This has been slowly evolving since the beginning of civilization and it is better than it has ever been.

Yes it is harder now to find someone to marry and stay with them but this is because women are more able to think for themselves and dont face humiliation for not saying yes to the first marriage proposal they get. Also people want to know that they are sexually compatible before they promise to spend their entire life with someone, and often they aren't.

People now have the benefit of a longer average lifespan and the ability to take their time choosing who they want to start a family with. Yes this does make it harder to find someone if you are not good at impressing people but at least it is a step forward rather than back.

In regards to there being a magic pill, obviously there is not a magic pill but there are already pills which have saved countless people from comitting suicide and helped countless people keep a job and maintain relationships etc. This idea that if only the world was geared more to promote manners and customs, it would be a better place, is wrong. look at the middle east, thats exactly what is happening over there and look how their quality of life compares.

These times of instability and confusion are needed in order to evolve and even though they are slightly chaotic the quality of life is still much better than it was in the past. Yeah life was more simple, and for the lucky ones it might have been a bit better than for the unlucky ones now , but overall life is a lot easier now. We are just a bit spoiled now because life is so easy we know how good it can be and when its not we bitch and complain. But that will change in time.

[Major Legend]

I gave the description of what being hampered by ADHD should feel like earlier in the thread, it is very specific and has many very particular character traits.

Struggling moving into a new position at work, or a little difficulty studying lots of stuff in one go is a problem the vast majority of the population have, apart from those blessed with superior genetics. THIS IS DEFINETELY NOT an excuse for labeling yourself having ADHD, having ADHD is a serious condition which severely skews your psychological responses to things far from what normal people experience.

Personally having ADHD has made me an excellent manager, because of my ability to quickly zone in and out of different disciplines and work categories. Having low latent inhibition means I am also more aware to detail than most people, as i'm stimulated easier that has given me an extremely superior ability to see problems before they occur. I also have a wide breadth of expertise because of ADHD's inherent need for novel stimulation, of course the disadvantage is that i'm not good at anything particularly.

What has been difficult for me is the inability to be "normal", as I mentioned in my last few post, the inability to not come off as a "weirdo" who is daydreaming or thinking about things all the time. This inability leads to an inability to FIT IN WITH OTHERS in social interactions (because i'm not the norm, different stimulation threshold), further this leans to social anxiety (developed pathologically via multiple bad experiences with normal people)

IF YOU HAVE ADHD, ITS EXTREMELY CLEAR - you do not function, nor think like a normal person. The whole condition forces you to grow up and see things in a completely different way to most people. So if you are normal for most other things, have a pretty standard "lens of the world" and struggle to remember things, or struggle to deal with homework. YOU DO NOT HAVE ADHD. ADHD severely damages your ability to stop yourself from doing things, it means sometimes you might get side tracked with your home work, and start reading the entire textbook - stuff like that.

I'm pretty sick of people saying they have ADHD or ADD, when they simply do not. Sorry Rant Off. If you really do have ADHD, you will completely understand what I have written in this thread up to this point. It took me years to truly understand what having ADHD means, for years I didn't even think I had it. Its really not like what people think it is.

Edited by Major Legend, 28 May 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[socialpiranha]

Add is a spectrum disorder with all kinds of different manifestations imo, I think all mental health issues barring physical trauma could be fit under the umbrella of attention deficit disorder which would explain why dextroamphetamine is the most effective substance on all the mental health forums. Other than the goto for dr's(ssri's) which is only because they are prescribed like candy.

[Sunwind]

Didnt bother to read the entire thread so I dont know har far along you are in your discussion. I will read it if i get the same problems, though.

However. Picking up girls nowadays has become both easier and harder.

Pretty girls can create an online profile on a dating site, or at facebook, and litterally be flooded with attempts to get a date of some sort. This has created an effect that means when these pretty girls go out to have fun, AFK, they believe they are extremely interesting and pretty because of all the online attention they get. And they start to develop some kind of "queen state of mind"(im better than you, and prettier)

Also, alot of women are looking for the perfect man, it seems. He has to be tall, but no too tall. Muscular, but not too muscular. Funny, but no si... You already know where im getting at right?

Things change. And that's a good thing. So let's see what things will be like in 5 years time

On a sidenote: if you want to pick up a girl, dont drink. it will nok work. it will expose you as the insecure, anxious, scared person you are. And women can spot that a 100 yards away. Lack of selfconfidence is often as obvious to women as if you were not wearing any clothes.

Lmao, the perfect man. Women don't know what they want, they just think they do.

If you see the world through society's eyes a hot girl in a club is at the absolute pinnacle. This is why you will repeatedly see successful and accomplished men go up and try to sell themselves to 18-year old girls who do coke off some dudes dick. They give all their power away to someone they DON'T EVEN KNOW AND WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING IN LIFE.

Question your (society's) broken beliefs, see the world through your own eyes (based off first hand experience). Realize your self-worth, set higher standards, and let other people live up to them.

According to society you will probably never be "good enough", "rich enough", "fit enough", "handsome enough" and so on, when in fact these things don't really matter.

Social conditioning makes me pissed, it's like layer after layer of bullshit that has to go.

Great post.. sums up my feelings and experience perfectly.

[pheanix997]

Dis-inhibiting compounds?

Opiates, Xanax, Phenibut, they are mostly downers, and alcohol is one of the best ones because its easy to obtain, opiates feel more cleaner (and makes you more open to strangers) but stay away if you have an addictive personality.

but honestly? unless you smoke Meth or take MDMA (both of which I highly dis encourage anyone to do so due to neurotoxicity), you will not be able to obtain the kind of disinhibition seen in naturally really gregarious/socially people, infact its this kind of disinhibition that draws people to these drugs in the first place.

And I can tell you for a fact that if you are shy socially inhibited, or socially awkward, your level of sociability even under the influence of these powerful drugs will only bring you to a normal or just below average of an very outgoing person.

I'm still testing various methods and theories at the moment, whilst I have had much success in improving myself in terms of social and confidence, i've yet located an elegant solution to disinhibition. I think most people are inhibited, in broad terms of disinhibition in terms of doing what you want (being comfortable with self expression) thats easy to achieve using a combination of chemical and psychological conditioning, however if you mean disinhibition in terms of really selling yourself/products and really just "going for it" when it comes to people, obtaining this "aggressive" personality doesn't seem to be easy.

And yes you heard that right, what you are looking for is not broadly disinhibition, its also positive aggression, shy and nice people lack aggression, they don't upsell themselves.

So its self worth, self confidence, and self esteem - in terms of temperament what are we looking for? At the moment anyways, though not conclusively it seems being high energy, sharp and focused is a good prerequisite to and disinhibited is a good prequisite to aggressive (note unhealthy and old people are usually less aggressive, and people who are good with sports are usually successful in life), in a way we can discern that - all social valuations are based on health in some way (e.g. being able to filter out the noise and dominate).

also contrary to belief confident individuals don't fight the environment, they just don't really let the environment affect them (and you can train the brain to see like this),

what I have been unsuccessful with is that some people just seem better at being manipulative socially, or playing the political game, it seems that people who are similar get in easier socially, this means if you are weird or different you will generally have problems integrating or playing their game (note how most of society is stupid and relies on this social system to be fed), so I think if you are different, you really really need to be confident and not let it get to you (at least thats what I think for now)

There is one thing though, and I agree with it - there is no substitute for courage, no matter what you do what drugs you take, or how you think it may help or aid your performance, even alter the outcome but however you go about it, you will need to bite your teeth and gamble, you will need to roll that dice and let the chips fall, people won't come and give you stuff on a silver platter (they do it more if you are good looking and white ). You have to go up to people and dazzle them with your passions, and think of it like this - what difference does it make if they come to you, in the end is same, the lack of courage is just the fear of losing self esteem, you fear that you will feel worse afterwards, or you have experiences of failure before, so you are protecting your self esteem.

People like us have to let go, we have to anchor self esteem to something harder, something more untouchable, for people who are common they can anchor their self esteem to everyone else who are similiar, you fear that your darkest fears are true, but what if I told you that they probably are true? What if people do find you weird, or dislike you, or they genuinely want to see you fail - the truth is its all probably true, people have good sides, but they also have a very evil side, and if we allow our self esteem to be affected by it, then we will never be happy, we will never be successful and we will never be aggressive.

Just though I'd let those thought come out - it helps me sort it out in my head too.

Major Legend, I know this was from a year ago, but reading your posts on this board, such as this one, are very refreshing and helpful - you pack a lot of knowledge of wisdom. Just want to say thanks! 

[Raptor87]

 

And yes you heard that right, what you are looking for is not broadly disinhibition, its also positive aggression, shy and nice people lack aggression, they don't upsell themselves.



 

 

 

 

http://press.endocri...10/jc.2006-1375

 

http://www.ourstolen...avisonetal.html

[machete234]

So it could be environmental things like phtalates (plastic softeners) the problem is you cannot really avoid that:

In your car there is a lot more plastic compared to 1987 and that stuff evaporates in the air and so on or gets in your body when you touch it.

Then there could be plastic bottles that werent wide spread in 87 and also not everbody had personal computers.

I dont know if that electronic smell is really good for you its something that gets released in the air when the platines get warm.

 

Finally it could be something we dont know about at all.

[Major Legend]

 

Major Legend, I know this was from a year ago, but reading your posts on this board, such as this one, are very refreshing and helpful - you pack a lot of knowledge of wisdom. Just want to say thanks! 

 

 

Thanks, that was very nice of you to say that. I really don't think of that about myself.