45 replies to this topic

[Junk Master]

I have an aging Retriever, probably in his last field year at 8. After a day retrieving ducks and walking he's so exhausted he needs help being lifted into the truck. In fact, last hunt he balked at climbing the small steps at the back of my garage.

Usually, it will take in 3 days before he regains the pep in his step, doesn't limp, doesn't sleep most of the day; but if I give him 3 mg of c60/oo he makes a remarkable recovery and is his old self the next day.

I have not given him a "full course," but just intermittent doses seem to work wonders.

Of course, I'm just speculating from what I've observed but c60/oo seems to work even better in dogs.

[Turnbuckle]

I have an aging Retriever, probably in his last field year at 8. After a day retrieving ducks and walking he's so exhausted he needs help being lifted into the truck. In fact, last hunt he balked at climbing the small steps at the back of my garage.

Usually, it will take in 3 days before he regains the pep in his step, doesn't limp, doesn't sleep most of the day; but if I give him 3 mg of c60/oo he makes a remarkable recovery and is his old self the next day.

I have not given him a "full course," but just intermittent doses seem to work wonders.

Of course, I'm just speculating from what I've observed but c60/oo seems to work even better in dogs.

You haven't seen any increase in scratching?

[AgeVivo]

Junk master, if I had done what you say I would have provided many more details on how much was given, how etc. If we ask the details now you may provide some, whether or not you did what you say you did: sorry but it is difficult to believe you whatever the result might be. that might be my scientific reaction.

Edited by AgeVivo, 24 November 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Junk master, if I had done what you say I would have provided many more details on how much was given, how etc. If we ask the details now you may provide some, whether or not you did what you say you did: sorry but it is difficult to believe you whatever the result might be. that might be my scientific reaction.

I believe him because I had the same experience with two dogs, where one was no longer able to get into the car without help. The effect has lasted for months without subsequent treatment, but both dogs picked up a great sensitivity to fleas (or just sensitive skin). So much so that I'd considered renaming them Itchy and Scratchy.

The dose was .18 mg/kg for 3 days and a subsequent single dose a month or so later. They've now been 5 or 6 months without treatment and the itching problem still persists but is controlled with antihistamines, and both dogs are jumping into the car just fine.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 24 November 2012 - 10:52 PM.

[AgeVivo]

Hmm. I imagine you posted about it on LongeCIty, with the first posts when you started dosing, and a few other posts at other times? Any pictures? I haven't read the many many discussions, but if we have some details it is interesting.

[niner]

Junk master, if I had done what you say I would have provided many more details on how much was given, how etc. If we ask the details now you may provide some, whether or not you did what you say you did: sorry but it is difficult to believe you whatever the result might be. that might be my scientific reaction.

He said that he gave his dog 3mg. I'm not sure why you would be so disbelieving; JM has no motivation to lie- he's not selling c60, he's not trying to get grants or tenure. This is an anecdote just like every other anecdote; it stands on its own. Anecdotes aren't controlled experiments; they're just observations. If you call it a "case report", then you can publish it and everyone seems to be fine with that.

[Logic]

My sister's dog had her 1st dose day before yesterday. (1 tablespoon)
Will dose again today.

So far there seems to have been an increase in energy and activity.

[AgeVivo]

He said that he gave his dog 3mg (..) JM has no motivation to lie- he's not selling c60,

Thank you, I lacked some context. A few month ago at a pseudo-scientific conference (very pseudo) where I was coincidentally pasing by there were people doing case reports of AIDS cure and cancer cure by oxygenotherapy (breathing oxygen)...

[Turnbuckle]

He said that he gave his dog 3mg (..) JM has no motivation to lie- he's not selling c60,

Thank you, I lacked some context. A few month ago at a pseudo-scientific conference (very pseudo) where I was coincidentally pasing by there were people doing case reports of AIDS cure and cancer cure by oxygenotherapy (breathing oxygen)...

I don't get the connection to oxygen therapy. But haven't you yourself seen revitalization of mice with C60? So it shouldn't be a surprise to see it in dogs.

[AgeVivo]

the connection is that "case reports" have no guaranty of seriousness attached and many are largely invented. I don't konw if I have not seen revitalization, I have seen and documented things that could look like revitalization [I think that something is going on but I am still not very convinced that c60oo does something in my mice]. From there it is easy to build whatever similar story, like I gave c60oo to my old dog and and started jumping and moving around like a young one; or to an old grandma and she started dancing everyday. Therefore I am looking for elements of seriousness; we will never accept or refute stories for sure (things are rarely black or white), but it is elements of appreciation.

[Turnbuckle]

I have seen and documented things that could look like revitalization [I think that something is going on but I am still not very convinced that c60oo does something in my mice].

Of course you can't be because you don't have any controls. Without controls and with insufficient animals for proper statistics, no conclusions can be drawn. However, we aren't doing rigorous science here. This is an informal forum where we note our observations and speculate on the meaning of them.

[Mind]

I was thinking about giving one of my old cats some C60. He is getting very slow and losing weight. Seems a bit arthritic. I suspect if C60 has anything remotely like a rejuvenating effect, then it should be fairly easy to document.

[AgeVivo]

Mind, this seems like a very good idea to me. Some comments, pictures and videos before and after starting the treatment + picture of giving c60oo: easy to do and potentially very interesting.

[niner]

I was thinking about giving one of my old cats some C60. He is getting very slow and losing weight. Seems a bit arthritic. I suspect if C60 has anything remotely like a rejuvenating effect, then it should be fairly easy to document.

It will depend a lot on exactly what ails your cat. If he has problems that are ROS-mediated, such as things that involve hypoxia or chronic inflammation, then you might see an improvement. Older male cats tend to have kidney problems; hard to say what the consequence would be there. C60might have a role in assisting in the differentiation of stem cells, resulting in the creation of new somatic cells. In principle, this could be an actual rejuvenative effect, though I think that if it happens at all, it's at a fairly low level in most cases. Other than that, I think of C60 as a compound that's helpful in a lot of common disease states and as something that slows the free radical damage that contributes to much of aging, rather than as a rejuvenative agent. It seems like a reasonable thing to try in a cat; let us know how it goes.

[AgeVivo]

C60might have a role in assisting in the differentiation of stem cells, resulting in the creation of new somatic cells

Oh... is it from what I also randomly posted/imagined one day (based on long lasting effects, if they ever are true which remains to be confirmed) or do we have special reasons to believe that it is the case?

[niner]

C60might have a role in assisting in the differentiation of stem cells, resulting in the creation of new somatic cells

Oh... is it from what I also randomly posted/imagined one day (based on long lasting effects, if they ever are true which remains to be confirmed) or do we have special reasons to believe that it is the case?

It's an extrapolation from a paper that Turnbuckle found. It's been speculated that this has something to do with the hair-growing effect.

[Junk Master]

Amen, Niner.

I think the "Junk" part of my name can give the wrong impression. It's taken from "junk miles," or miles done at a slow pace; as well as being an allusion to my predilection for absorbing arcane info.

Also, to clarify, I have no financial interest in c60/oo. I'm just an early adopter, fitness and longevity enthusiast for over two decades, and a bio-hacker in the mold of Tim Ferris, and Dave Asprey.

Turnbuckle, I have not seen any scratching, though he's never been a scratcher.

I've given him 3mg doses on three separate occasions, with at least two weeks in between. After each dose he showed, again anecdotal, increased recuperative powers, and increased energy.

I plan to put him on a more consistent dosing schedule (still intermittent), but need to make my own, larger batch of c60/oo first and am still debating the merits of investing in a magnetic stirrer and filter versus going the low tech route.

[xEva]

I [...] am still debating the merits of investing in a magnetic stirrer and filter versus going the low tech route.

There is a way of making a magnetic stirrer yourself out of old computer junk. You need a 12v PC cooling fan and a magnet out of an old hard drive. You mount the PC fan into plastic or wood stand on top of which you later place the container to be stirred. You need to wire the fan properly with a laptop power adapter. You place the magnet on the blades of the fan and test it in action -- there is a sweet spot for it to sit where stability is maxed and the wobble is minimal. That's the gist of it.

[niner]

...need to make my own, larger batch of c60/oo first and am still debating the merits of investing in a magnetic stirrer and filter versus going the low tech route.

If you crush or grind the c60 first, there's really no need for a stirrer. It will be done in a few days with occasional shaking. I didn't use any filtration at all with mine.

[Junk Master]

Thanks again, niner!

[Junk Master]

A quick update. I can definitively say c60/oo has not cured my dog of his infrequent seizures as he had one yesterday. He's had them since he was a puppy, so it's nothing new. To the best of my observations, they are usually triggered by stress and I believe the cold weather was a contributing factor.

[Cassandra Coleman]

Does c60 have any effects on diabetes or Mast cell tumors in dogs?

[niner]

Does c60 have any effects on diabetes or Mast cell tumors in dogs?

It might be a useful adjunct to the rest of a diabetes treatment program, since oxidation is a problem there. The tumor worries me, though. Cancer cells are frequently oxidatively challenged, and c60 might be helpful to them. That's purely hypothetical, and one could also speculate that c60 might also help those cells execute their suicide programs. Basically, giving c60 to an animal with cancer would be an experiment. I'm not real crazy about it because I have a suspicion that mitochondrial dysfunction isn't the primary reason that cancer cells don't self-destruct like they should.

[Cassandra Coleman]

Niner, what do you think prevents cancer cells from self destructing as they are supposed to? I know this is a bit of subject but is there anything that has been proven to force cancers cell to carry out their suicide as they should?

[Logic]

Simply put; it seems that when cells become cancerous their mitochondria are deactivated so that they cannot send out an apoptosis signal.
Turning the mitochondria back on in cancerous cells allows them to send out this apoptosis signal so that the cell in which they are dies.
DCA has been shown to be somewhat effective at doing this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23471124
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22614004

Green Tea, Mebendazole etc. may be effective against cancer by a similar pathway IMHO?
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/

Now as Baati's C60oo rats didn't have a single cancerous cell; it possible that the reason is that C60oo protects the mitochondria from being switched off when a cell becomes cancerous and the cell is thus destroyed immediately.

This leads one to speculate on whether C60oo could synergise with DCA, Mebendazole, Green Tea, PQQ etc. to switch mitochondria back on and keep them on so that they can send out their apoptosis signal and kill off the cancerous cell.

We may have some idea as to whether this works soon as Adam32's dog, with bowel and prostat cancer is already on C60oo and I have shipped 6 grams of Mebendazole to him.
http://www.longecity...-cancer-in-dog/



Interestingly CD47 works similarly in that blocking this protein means that cancer cells no longer send a 'dont eat me' signal to your immine system and get eaten by autoghages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD47
http://www.pnas.org/...623109.full.pdf

Anti-CD47 antibody [B6H12.2] (ab3283)and others is available here if you want to try it:
http://www.abcam.com...122-ab3283.html

Edited by Logic, 25 May 2013 - 12:45 AM.

[niner]

Niner, what do you think prevents cancer cells from self destructing as they are supposed to? I know this is a bit of subject but is there anything that has been proven to force cancers cell to carry out their suicide as they should?

The suicide program is called apoptosis. It's highly regulated, and there are both pro- and anti-apoptotic signalling proteins. One way that a cancer cell can evade apoptosis is for any of the anti-apoptotic proteins to be over-expressed. This might happen because of a mutation in a promoter or repressor binding sequence, for example.

Getting cancer cells to die is, needless to say, an area of active research. There are a lot of different ways that apoptosis might break, so in the end we will probably need a lot of different fixes for it. Some existing chemotherapy drugs work by activating apoptosis, but I don't know how specific they are.

[Cassandra Coleman]

Simply put; it seems that when cells become cancerous their mitochondria are deactivated so that they cannot send out an apoptosis signal.
Turning the mitochondria back on in cancerous cells allows them to send out this apoptosis signal so that the cell in which they are dies.
DCA has been shown to be somewhat effective at doing this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23471124
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22614004

Green Tea, Mebendazole etc. may be effective against cancer by a similar pathway IMHO?
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/

Now as Baati's C60oo rats didn't have a single cancerous cell; it possible that the reason is that C60oo protects the mitochondria from being switched off when a cell becomes cancerous and the cell is thus destroyed immediately.

This leads one to speculate on whether C60oo could synergise with DCA, Mebendazole, Green Tea, PQQ etc. to switch mitochondria back on and keep them on so that they can send out their apoptosis signal and kill off the cancerous cell.

We may have some idea as to whether this works soon as Adam32's dog, with bowel and prostat cancer is already on C60oo and I have shipped 6 grams of Mebendazole to him.
http://www.longecity...-cancer-in-dog/



Interestingly CD47 works similarly in that blocking this protein means that cancer cells no longer send a 'dont eat me' signal to your immine system and get eaten by autoghages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD47
http://www.pnas.org/...623109.full.pdf

Anti-CD47 antibody [B6H12.2] (ab3283)and others is available here if you want to try it:
http://www.abcam.com...122-ab3283.html

She is Diabetic and only 5lbs as of yesterday, I have her on quite a few suppliments. What would you suggest for this situation? I do not want to risk killing her, so as long as she will not die I am willing to try just about anything o prevent her from having o go through another surgery in under 90 days.

[Logic]

She is Diabetic and only 5lbs as of yesterday, I have her on quite a few suppliments. What would you suggest for this situation? I do not want to risk killing her, so as long as she will not die I am willing to try just about anything o prevent her from having o go through another surgery in under 90 days.

I'm an amateur Cassandra and my speculative post above could be completely wrong.
I am hoping to get feedback from the more experienced and qualified people on this forum, but so far everyone has avoided comment.

I will reply speculatively in your thread to avoid taking this one off topic.

[Turnbuckle]

Simply put; it seems that when cells become cancerous their mitochondria are deactivated so that they cannot send out an apoptosis signal.
Turning the mitochondria back on in cancerous cells allows them to send out this apoptosis signal so that the cell in which they are dies.

Exactly. Many if not most of the effects of C60 can be explained this way--turning on the mitochondria of cancer cells kills them while turning on the mitochondria of stem cells causes them to differentiate, and anecdotal stories of hair regrowth and scar disappearance could be the result of stem cell action.

[Logic]

Simply put; it seems that when cells become cancerous their mitochondria are deactivated so that they cannot send out an apoptosis signal.
Turning the mitochondria back on in cancerous cells allows them to send out this apoptosis signal so that the cell in which they are dies.

Exactly. Many if not most of the effects of C60 can be explained this way--turning on the mitochondria of cancer cells kills them while turning on the mitochondria of stem cells causes them to differentiate, and anecdotal stories of hair regrowth and scar disappearance could be the result of stem cell action.

Thx Turnbuckle
Way off topic but:

I Know you take PQQ. I assume a day or 2 before your bi-weekly C60oo?

Do you use green tea?
Have you ever taken Mebendazole?