331 replies to this topic

[ClarkSims]

[

This study suggests that NAC alone can produce a 25% increase in endurance?

http://ajrccm.atsjou...169/9/1022.full

There is one problem in generalizing this study to athletes. The people in the study all had circulatory problems. I am still digging into the details of various studious though.

The method of action NAC up-regulating glutathione seems reasonable.

[Krell]

[

This study suggests that NAC alone can produce a 25% increase in endurance?

http://ajrccm.atsjou...169/9/1022.full

There is one problem in generalizing this study to athletes. The people in the study all had circulatory problems. I am still digging into the details of various studious though.

The method of action NAC up-regulating glutathione seems reasonable.

I purchased some NAC and took 1200mg this morning at 7am and then played tennis at 8am. No improvement in my serve.
At about 9:30am I pumped some iron and did not see any improvement in bench press maximum weight but did see a 10% increase
in reps at lesser weight. At about 9:45am I got on the stair climber and did not find it any easier than usual. I did notice a little
diarrhea from the NAC on a empty stomach. My last C60 was 3mg a couple of days ago. I will try to increase NAC to 1600mg next time.

[ClarkSims]

I have been doing 1800 mg of NAC for the last week. 1200 in the morning, and 600 and night. I had a sudden burst of strength and rediscovered good form when I ran stairs tonight. I did 65 flights and didn't have to stop to catch my breath. I triple stepped most of the way. Last week, I was having to stop after 30 flights or so, and I was only doing 2 steps at a shot.

I could do 50 pushups today, whereas last week I could only do 40.

I think NAC might be helping.

I am still well off my peek form. 2 years ago, I could have done much more. I have a race in 6 months. Hopefully I will be back in peak form before then.

Edited by ClarkSims, 24 March 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[niner]

I have been doing 1800 mg of NAC for the last week. 1200 in the morning, and 600 and night. I had a sudden burst of strength and rediscovered good form when I ran stairs tonight. I did 65 flights and didn't have to stop to catch my breath. I triple stepped most of the way. Last week, I was having to stop after 30 flights or so, and I was only doing 2 steps at a shot.

I could do 50 pushups today, whereas last week I could only do 40.

I think NAC might be helping.

Wow, I'll say. That's quite a performance jump. Has anyone tried NAC alone without c60? (Preferably in a person who has never used c60, since it lasts so long.) It's starting to look like the combination of the two is a major performance enhancer.

[mikeinnaples]

I was using NAC before C60 and continued taking it while using C60. The only thing noticeable for me was lack of hangover if I took it after drinking.

[mikey]

NAC was shown in this study to reduce symptoms of flu by 54% over a six month period, when 600 mg was taken twice per day.

I take 1800 mg two or three times a day and I don't get sick.

When the flu comes through town I either don't feel it or I find myself feeling a little tired, take a nap and wake up feeling normal where my friends are in bed for a week.

[Kevnzworld]

I take a relatively low dose of NAC, 600 mg once a day in the late morning, no less than 12 hours after consuming alcohol ( thanks Niner ) for glutathione replenishment or support.
I also take r-lipoic acid which also boosts GSH levels.
http://europepmc.org...act/MED/1418040
I haven't felt anything noticeable other than reduced after effects of drinking. I've been doing this for years before beginning C60 supplementation.

[Turnbuckle]

The combo of C60 & NAC (2 mg/1800 mg every day or every other day) continues to work after more than 2 weeks. I've seen no fading with it.

(And, off topic, I switched to a no-cholesterol diet a week ago and lost ten pounds and 87 points on total cholesterol.)

[mikey]

The combo of C60 & NAC (2 mg/1800 mg every day or every other day) continues to work after more than 2 weeks. I've seen no fading with it.

(And, off topic, I switched to a no-cholesterol diet a week ago and lost ten pounds and 87 points on total cholesterol.)

Please tell us what the no-cholesterol diet consists of.

[Turnbuckle]

The combo of C60 & NAC (2 mg/1800 mg every day or every other day) continues to work after more than 2 weeks. I've seen no fading with it.

(And, off topic, I switched to a no-cholesterol diet a week ago and lost ten pounds and 87 points on total cholesterol.)

Please tell us what the no-cholesterol diet consists of.

It's nothing I found anywhere. I just eliminated meat and eggs and cheese and all dairy products. And instead I've been eating fruit, toasted sourdough bread dipped in olive oil, salads with olive oil, and high fiber cereal. Along with a bit of protein powder in OJ. And I've been far less hungry all week.

Apparently some respond to a low cholesterol diet and some do not. I've also been taking a bile acid sequestrant for the past couple of years, but that wasn't doing the trick on cholesterol, and total cholesterol was inching up toward 300.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 30 March 2013 - 09:49 PM.

[mpe]

If its not too personal, what was your cholesterol proportions?

[Turnbuckle]

If its not too personal, what was your cholesterol proportions?

Not good. My last lab test (from some months ago) was 35 for HDL.

[zen]

If its not too personal, what was your cholesterol proportions?

Not good. My last lab test (from some months ago) was 35 for HDL.

I found Amla Fruit to be very helpful in increasing HDL.

[Turnbuckle]

Getting back to the C60 + NAC combination, I feel that it is definitely synergistic but doesn't eliminate fading. For me, breaks are still necessary.

The fading I've seen is mostly a drop in alcohol tolerance. I've also seen an increasing sensitivity to coffee. I'm quite the java junkie, and now the combination of C60, NAC, and my usual excessive caffeine intake has produced some tinnitus. (Though I can't be sure it isn't just a coincidence.)

[Fred_CALICO]

Strange coincidence because I tried C60oo + NAC + high dose caffeine I also had tinnitus.

[ClarkSims]

(And, off topic, I switched to a no-cholesterol diet a week ago and lost ten pounds and 87 points on total cholesterol.)

You might want to check out plant sterols also.. They are cheap, safe and effective.
Here is one of many papers on plant sterols

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12911045

[BioFreak]

Did you guys consider that nac's action does not necessarily rely on c60? There has been at least one study describing that nac (and selenium) does not only improve the antioxidant system (the glutathione part) within the cells of especially older people, but also improve the anabolic effect of an protein meal(can't find sources right now :/ ).

Also its able to increase testosterone through protecting the testes from oxidant damage.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19091331

and improves stamina...
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20937413

The funny thing is, science complains about anti oxidants being bad for performance nowadays, but they seem to look at antioxidants such as vitamin c, e, etc... However, would it not make more sense to look at the basic antioxidants such as glutathione to make conclusions about anti-oxidative effects? And nac clearly shows benefits.

And if c60 depletes antioxidants, glutathione is only part of the picture. There are at least 3 main anti oxidants... glutathione, SOD, and... can't remember the third one. Each performing special tasks. The goal would be to raise them all. Unfortunately I didn't have time yet to look into it. :/

[Turnbuckle]

Did you guys consider that nac's action does not necessarily rely on c60?

The original rationale for the combination is in post 156.

[daouda]

Just a note, if someone has any kind of "IBS" going on, avoid NAC at all costs... Since I stopped NAC my "IBS" has pretty much resolved itself. (I'm for from he only one reporting this s) I'm not abusively generalizing)

[ClarkSims]

The funny thing is, science complains about anti oxidants being bad for performance nowadays, but they seem to look at antioxidants such as vitamin c, e, etc...

I am constantly reading sports nutrition literature, and I have never seen anyone say anything bad about anti-oxidants. What are you referring to?

[daouda]

Antioxidants impair adaptation to exercise :
http://ajpendo.physi...302/4/E476.full
http://ajcn.nutritio...pe2=tf_ipsecsha
http://www.pnas.org/...pe2=tf_ipsecsha
http://www.setantaco...ion Reduces.pdf
http://www.hindawi.c...012/756132/abs/
http://www.cell.com/...86?showall=true
http://onlinelibrary...004.080564/full


HOWEVER

Antioxidants do not impair adaptation to exercise :
http://www.setantaco...s Not Alter.pdf
http://ajpendo.physi...01/5/E779.short (study countered in the first anti-antioxidant aper linked above)


Review of the pros and cons of antioxidants with exercise http://media.powerba...rich2010_06.pdf


Most of the up-to-date evidence is against antioxidants with exercise...

Edited by daouda, 18 April 2013 - 12:19 AM.

[solarfingers]

Has anyone read this study?

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA

The most disturbing part is that in their tests c60 actually caused DNA to unravel....

"The nanoparticle was found to bind with the minor grooves of double-stranded DNA and trigger unwinding and disrupting of the DNA helix, which indicates C60 can potentially inhibit the DNA replication and induce potential side effects.

... Our findings reveal a general mode by which C60 causes DNA/RNA damage or other toxic effects at a systematic level, suggesting it should be cautious to handle these nanomaterials in various medical applications."

Now that can't be good. Has anyone seen findings that contradict this study?

Edited by solarfingers, 20 May 2013 - 02:49 AM.

[niner]

The first paper is a simulation rather than an experimental result. It's looking at a rather unnatural situation of a naked c60 in water, associating with DNA. The c60 olive oil adduct is a different molecule, and would be unlikely to engage in this particular interaction. The second paper looks at fullerenol, a highly-hydroxylated version of c60, and also at c60 nano-aggregates. Both of these have very different properties than c60-oo. If c60-oo is capable of damaging DNA, it certainly didn't show up in Baati's rats, which not only lived 90% longer than the controls, but had no tumors when they died, unlike the typical cancer-ridden elderly rat. That's a pretty good indication that it isn't mutagenic.

[solarfingers]

Niner,

I guess when you've been discussing and researching this for a year then the fog begins to clear. Thanks for being patient with a neophyte like myself. It sure would be comforting if another rat study with c60-oo had been completed... I deleted the second paper after I realized there was no negative effect with the c60 with the corn oil. I must have been deleting when you were writing.

Thanks...

[Andey]

I have tried to add NAC to my regimen - nothing to report really, didnt notice any change. I will give it to my father who also take C60 (and didnt feel a thing) may be he will notice a difference

[Logic]

C60oo stops cancer from switching off mitochondria so they can send an apoptosis signal???

Switching them on again with a kickstarter such as DCA and then protecting them with C60oo may be the way to go?
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22614004
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17222789
http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ents-crowe.html

Green Tea, Mebendazole etc. may be effective against cancer by a similar pathway?
"...Mining the compendium for small molecules that boost OXPHOS gene expression and decrease ROS levels
Remarkably, both analytical strategies spotlighted microtubule modulators, including both a microtubule stabilizer (paclitaxel) and several destabilizers (mebendazole, nocodazole, podophyllotoxin, and vinblastine), as agents that boost OXPHOS expression while suppressing ROS levels. The second strategy also yielded deoxysappanone B, a natural product found in sappan wood40, whose molecular mode of action is unknown and has not been previously linked to microtubule biology..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/


Interestingly CD47 works similarly in that blocking this protein means that cancer cells no longer send a 'dont eat me' signal to your immine system and get eaten by autoghages.
http://www.longecity...therapy-target/

Could C60oo synergise with DCA, Mebendazole, Green Tea, PQQ etc. to keep kickstarted mito's on and thus kill cancer?

[ClarkSims]

I haven't seen that paper yet, but it fits the general pattern, that c60 nano particles are toxic, and c60 dissolved or adducted is non toxic. Note that the quote said nanoparticle. That means it is "pristine" c60, or pure solid c60. I think every study with pristine c60 has shown some sort of toxicity.

There was a study where rats were feed c60 particles suspended in corn oil Most of the c60 passed through the intestine and was not absorbed. The c60 that did get through caused some liver inflammation, but the marginal increase in inflammation was less than the inflammation caused by the corn oil.

I am not worried about c60 particles suspended in olive oil.

Edited by ClarkSims, 20 May 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Andey]

I haven't seen that paper yet, but it fits the general pattern, that c60 nano particles are toxic, and c60 dissolved or adducted is non toxic. Note that the quote said nanoparticle. That means it is "pristine" c60, or pure solid c60. I think every study with pristine c60 has shown some sort of toxicity.

There was a study where rats were feed c60 particles suspended in corn oil Most of the c60 passed through the intestine and was not absorbed. The c60 that did get through caused some liver inflammation, but the marginal increase in inflammation was less than the inflammation caused by the corn oil.

I am not worried about c60 particles suspended in olive oil.

Are there any studies that confirms C60 toxicity in vivo ? I recall some study that pristine C60 simply dont digest and overall toxicity is similar to sand one. Didnt recall where I read it though.

[Turnbuckle]

"The nanoparticle was found to bind with the minor grooves of double-stranded DNA and trigger unwinding and disrupting of the DNA helix, which indicates C60 can potentially inhibit the DNA replication and induce potential side effects.

I mentioned a similar paper in the first post on this thread, where the binding of C60 to the minor groove interferes with methyltransferase and prevents duplicated mtDNA from being methylated. It's how mtDNA could be altered epigenetically, and would explain the improvement some have seen in oxygen utilization and exercise tolerance.

[hav]

Has anyone read this study?

A large-scale association study for nanoparticle C60 uncovers mechanisms of nanotoxicity disrupting the native conformations of DNA/RNA

The most disturbing part is that in their tests c60 actually caused DNA to unravel....

"The nanoparticle was found to bind with the minor grooves of double-stranded DNA and trigger unwinding and disrupting of the DNA helix, which indicates C60 can potentially inhibit the DNA replication and induce potential side effects.

... Our findings reveal a general mode by which C60 causes DNA/RNA damage or other toxic effects at a systematic level, suggesting it should be cautious to handle these nanomaterials in various medical applications."

Now that can't be good. Has anyone seen findings that contradict this study?

I would add to niner's analysis that there seems to be a problem with the logic of this prediction of the free-c60/DNA simulation:

C60 enables to disrupt the structure of G-quadruplex DNA, and thereby provides a possibility to activate the telomerase by facilitating its access to telomeres and in this way promotes the proliferation of tumor cells.

The Baati study flat-out refutes the tumor prediction above as applying to c60 adducts in olive oil. Of course it would be nice if their telomerase - tumor assumption was backwards and c60 did in fact activate telomerase while suppressing tumors but unfortunately Baati didn't measure and compare telomere lengths... maybe next time.

Howard