331 replies to this topic

[mikey]

Oh no I hate to be a huge disappointment but my previous best was 34:36 and I was able to get it in 27:15 on tuesday, that is by far the hardest I've ever run but it felt really good, powerful runner's high at the end I think. I wanted to eat tigers. I grew up asthmatic and as such never got to build much of an aerobic base. Bear in mind this is on a treadmill in the air conditioning. I noticed that my heartrate got up above 180, but felt comfortable, whereas normally that would be an indicator that I'm out of breath. 27 years old, 205 lbs, muscular build but with somewhere between 15-18% body fat. My squat strength has also increased, 4 weeks ago I was able to push 275 6 times, on tuesday (before my run!) I got 275 for 12 reps. I don't keep a training log, but I rarely train squats or leg press for gains since I already have tree trunk legs. I personally believe my knee cartilage is over sized compared to a year ago as well. If anybody wants to supply me with some type of test training schedule I'd be happy to keep to it as long as It's not less intense than I'm used to. 5 days a week strength training, accompanied by alternating daily 1 or 3 mile runs. I work from home so I usually have lots of time for recovery.

I stated elsewhere but I'd like to drop it here too: I think c60oo's efficacy is based in its surface area, the number of electrons it can accept, structural resilience, accessible electron affinity/ionization energy, and redox recombination. All those factors together make it versatile in that it can hand off radicals to enzymes, or combine two to form a stable molecule, repeatedly and continuously. Your average vitamins C/E are only able to donate two electrons before requiring recycling, right? You're getting a different level of efficiency out of c60 than you could from other molecules. Would that mean other pieces of the system get worked harder than they're prepared to compensate for? Can we as a group discuss and consider those possibilities?

A friend of mine works for the Moffit cancer research center, she says I should stop taking this stuff as she thinks it's probably somehow killing me. I'm going for blood work on the 6th, in the mean time what do you guys think?

By Jove - I think you've got it!

[bew4lsh]

Oh no I hate to be a huge disappointment but my previous best was 34:36 and I was able to get it in 27:15 on tuesday, that is by far the hardest I've ever run but it felt really good, powerful runner's high at the end I think. I wanted to eat tigers. I grew up asthmatic and as such never got to build much of an aerobic base. Bear in mind this is on a treadmill in the air conditioning. I noticed that my heartrate got up above 180, but felt comfortable, whereas normally that would be an indicator that I'm out of breath. 27 years old, 205 lbs, muscular build but with somewhere between 15-18% body fat. My squat strength has also increased, 4 weeks ago I was able to push 275 6 times, on tuesday (before my run!) I got 275 for 12 reps. I don't keep a training log, but I rarely train squats or leg press for gains since I already have tree trunk legs. I personally believe my knee cartilage is over sized compared to a year ago as well. If anybody wants to supply me with some type of test training schedule I'd be happy to keep to it as long as It's not less intense than I'm used to. 5 days a week strength training, accompanied by alternating daily 1 or 3 mile runs. I work from home so I usually have lots of time for recovery.

I stated elsewhere but I'd like to drop it here too: I think c60oo's efficacy is based in its surface area, the number of electrons it can accept, structural resilience, accessible electron affinity/ionization energy, and redox recombination. All those factors together make it versatile in that it can hand off radicals to enzymes, or combine two to form a stable molecule, repeatedly and continuously. Your average vitamins C/E are only able to donate two electrons before requiring recycling, right? You're getting a different level of efficiency out of c60 than you could from other molecules. Would that mean other pieces of the system get worked harder than they're prepared to compensate for? Can we as a group discuss and consider those possibilities?

A friend of mine works for the Moffit cancer research center, she says I should stop taking this stuff as she thinks it's probably somehow killing me. I'm going for blood work on the 6th, in the mean time what do you guys think?

Blood work results, or did it kill you?

I am not dead! They did a full panel for me, everything except eosinophil count was in-range (500 is the max for normal, I was at 850, but they chalk it up to asthma/allergies. Let me know if anybody else has similar results though.)
The only thing I'm still concerned about is eye health in the long term. Has anybody seen any c60 + eye UV exposure studies? Are the upper layers of your eye different enough from normal skin cells to warrant separate study?

[katzenjammer]

Turnbuckle,

How does taking intermittent dosages prevent c60 from causing stem cells from differentiating themselves out of existence? I'm not completely sold on the idea but that doesn't mean that I should throw all caution out into the wind. Niner is taking intermittent dosages as well yet for different reasons. You are both very astute in this area and I would be amiss not to take your thoughts and methodology into account.

I'm taking it intermittently because I get better results that way and because the Baati study was intermittent. Also, my theory that C60 might be epigenetically modifying the DNA of mitochondria suggests that allowing time for the better mitochondria to replicate and the defective ones to be removed by mitophagy would evolve the stochastically altered cellular population to a higher level of functioning.

What do you mean by intermittent? 3 weeks on, 1 week off? Once a week dosage? et cetera?

[markymark]

I would like to share an observation.
I was on biweekly (Wednesdays and Sundays) 6 mg for 3 months. After switching back to daily 1.5 mg 2 weeks ago (I was on the daily-mode from the beginning in Feb. 2012 for about 6 months), I cannot help myself, but I have the feeling that this is better in terms of endurance exercise running and also daytime acitvities (biking and simply climbing stairs etc.).
Maybe I am ending up by 5 days in a row and a pause for 2 days and so on....
mm

Edited by markymark, 31 December 2013 - 08:50 AM.

[LexLux]

If C60 increases TNF-a, it would then also increase inflammation in some people. Many of the symptoms described are inflammatory in nature ( Turnbuckle ).

Oops, then C60 could be BAD BAD BAD for people like me with autoimmune problems (AS, RA, Chrohn's etc.). The cornerstone of therapy for these conditions is currently TNF inhibition. For example, I am already on a TNF inhibitor for AS.

Good question why every promising anti-aging substance seem to be dangerous for autoimmune patients. First resveratrol, now this.

Sorry for derailing the thread but would you mind telling why you think that resveratrol upregulates TNF? I just did a scholar search for Resveratrol and TNF and results seem to indicate that it inhibits TNF:

• Resveratrol inhibits TNF alpha-induced endothelial cell activation.
• Resveratrol inhibits TNF-α-induced changes of adipokines in 3T3-L1 adipocytes
• Resveratrol inhibits nitric oxide and TNF-α production by lipopolysaccharide-activated microglia
• Resveratrol suppresses TNF-induced activation of nuclear transcription factors NF-κB, activator protein-1, and apoptosis: potential role of reactive oxygen …

And then there's this too -
[PDF] Scientific evidence and rationale for the development of curcumin and resveratrol as nutraceutricals for joint health

"As discussed earlier many inflammatory factors involved in arthritis, are regulated by the transcription factor Nuclear Factor-κB (NF-κB) [174]. NF-κB regulates many important signaling pathways in diseases with an inflammatory component [175–177]. Resveratrol blocks TNF-α-induced activation of NF-κB and suppresses TNF-α-induced phosphorylation and nuclear translocation of the p65 subunit of NF-κB and NF-κB-dependent reporter gene transcription [178]."

Edited by LexLux, 30 March 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[mikey]

At the risk of getting a demerit, I'm reporting some interesting data, a personal report of how long C60 seems to be active.

Being of the opposite perspective, I have taken 7 mg of C60oo almost every morning since early August, 2012 and haven't had any negative effects - except one - but plenty of predictable positive effects.

The only negative that I notice is that C60oo definitely makes it much harder to get a buzz from alcohol, which I've seen people here say, also noted by one friend who I turned on to C60. She quit taking it every day and will only take it during "cleansing" periods, because she likes her evening happy hour.

I note that I ran out of C60oo last month and after four days of not taking it alcohol started giving me that warm, sociable feeling at normal doses.

When my supply arrived and I started taking C60 every day again, alcohol tolerance increased tremendously.

Therefore, one has to wonder how much of the antioxidant protection that C60 provides that we are missing if we don't take C60 for a week or two. I would be concerned that taking it intermittently would allow more aging during down times.

Just my two cents. I see brilliant people enunciate complex biochemical reasons to support intermittent dosing, and I certainly can't argue for my perspective in biochemical terms on their level.

One thing that Turnbuckle enlightened me about is that C60oo causes scars to fade.

In putting up outdoor lights I bashed my head against a sharp point on my textured stucco and created a nasty gash on my forehead above my left eye - three months ago.

Today it's about a third as visible as it was at first and I expect it to fully fade out, as the other scars on my face and body have.

I continue to have almost no wrinkles on my face - because they faded some months after I started C60, and I count on it keeping my skin looking a dozen or two years younger than I am - and without LifeStyle Lift (LOL).

I'm just providing counterpoint, but that four-day personal window I found to be interesting and thought it was worth sharing.

I miss having a normal response to fine red wines, but if that's the only price, it's worth it.

[tintinet]

I don't drink much, and historically I'm a lightweight (also only weigh 140 lbs.), but the last time I did, I noticed no effect from 3 successive shots of vodka.

[nowayout]

If C60 increases TNF-a, it would then also increase inflammation in some people. Many of the symptoms described are inflammatory in nature ( Turnbuckle ).

Oops, then C60 could be BAD BAD BAD for people like me with autoimmune problems (AS, RA, Chrohn's etc.). The cornerstone of therapy for these conditions is currently TNF inhibition. For example, I am already on a TNF inhibitor for AS.

Good question why every promising anti-aging substance seem to be dangerous for autoimmune patients. First resveratrol, now this.

Sorry for derailing the thread but would you mind telling why you think that resveratrol upregulates TNF?

No, I didn't say resveratrol upregulated TNF, but it seems to cause some autoimmune/autoinflammatory conditions in some people (see the joint pain threads). Nobody really knows why.

Edited by nowayout, 31 March 2014 - 12:16 AM.

[mikey]

I don't drink much, and historically I'm a lightweight (also only weigh 140 lbs.), but the last time I did, I noticed no effect from 3 successive shots of vodka.

I'll drink to that!

[LexLux]

If C60 increases TNF-a, it would then also increase inflammation in some people. Many of the symptoms described are inflammatory in nature ( Turnbuckle ).

Oops, then C60 could be BAD BAD BAD for people like me with autoimmune problems (AS, RA, Chrohn's etc.). The cornerstone of therapy for these conditions is currently TNF inhibition. For example, I am already on a TNF inhibitor for AS.

Good question why every promising anti-aging substance seem to be dangerous for autoimmune patients. First resveratrol, now this.

Sorry for derailing the thread but would you mind telling why you think that resveratrol upregulates TNF?

No, I didn't say resveratrol upregulated TNF, but it seems to cause some autoimmune/autoinflammatory conditions in some people (see the joint pain threads). Nobody really knows why.

I just got done reading the full text of this recent review on resveratrol, adverse effects in humans at doses ranging from 1g - 5g were noted to be limited to gastrointestinal "particularly diarrhea, nausea, and abdominal pain, all of which occurred only in individuals taking in excess of 1 g resveratrol per day.". No mention of joint pain there and in these studies it was being considered for arthritis -

• Resveratrol suppresses interleukin-1β-induced inflammatory signaling and apoptosis in human articular chondrocytes: Potential for use as a novel nutraceutical for the treatment of osteoarthritis
• Anti-inflammatory effects of resveratrol and oligostilbenes from Vitis thunbergii var. taiwaniana against lipopolysaccharide-induced arthritis

[nowayout]

If C60 increases TNF-a, it would then also increase inflammation in some people. Many of the symptoms described are inflammatory in nature ( Turnbuckle ).

Oops, then C60 could be BAD BAD BAD for people like me with autoimmune problems (AS, RA, Chrohn's etc.). The cornerstone of therapy for these conditions is currently TNF inhibition. For example, I am already on a TNF inhibitor for AS.

Good question why every promising anti-aging substance seem to be dangerous for autoimmune patients. First resveratrol, now this.

Sorry for derailing the thread but would you mind telling why you think that resveratrol upregulates TNF?

No, I didn't say resveratrol upregulated TNF, but it seems to cause some autoimmune/autoinflammatory conditions in some people (see the joint pain threads). Nobody really knows why.

I just got done reading the full text of this recent review on resveratrol, adverse effects in humans at doses ranging from 1g - 5g were noted to be limited to gastrointestinal "particularly diarrhea, nausea, and abdominal pain, all of which occurred only in individuals taking in excess of 1 g resveratrol per day.". No mention of joint pain there and in these studies it was being considered for arthritis

Those studies must not have been large enough to show this kind of side effect. (I didn't check the size of all the studies but I seem to remember that they were mostly small - remember that a side effect that affects 1% of patients is considered "common" in pharmacology and to see that your study population has to number several hundreds, so to get "uncommon" side effects you need large studies with thousands of participants, and even much larger for "rare" side effects.) Even a number of resveratrol proponents who like the effects of resveratrol overall have complained about joint pain on these forums, never mind the few individuals who seem to have had serious consequences from it.

Edited by nowayout, 31 March 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Those studies must not have been large enough to show this kind of side effect. (I didn't check the size of the studies but remember that a side effect that affects even just 1% of patients is actually considered "common" in pharmacology and to see that your study population has to be several hundreds, so to get "uncommon" side effects you need large studies with thousands of participants, and even much larger for "rare" side effects.) Even a lot of resveratrol proponents who like the effects of resveratrol overall on these forums have complained about joint pain, never mind the few individuals who seem to have had serious consequences from it.

It isn't size so much as time. The doses range from a single dose to 28 days, while I didn't notice the negative joint effects for many months.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 31 March 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[niner]

Regarding c60 and TNF, we have no evidence that c60-oo raises TNF levels. We have two reports that a completely different, water soluble fullerol (a polyhydroxylated c60) slows tumor growth rate in rodents and has immunostimulatory effects in vitro. An shift from Th2 to Th1 cytokine production was seen here, and a TNF increase was noted here. These were in vitro experiments aimed at determining the anti-cancer mechanism of fullerols. IF these results are generalizable to c60-oo, we should note that this kind of immunomodulation is a GOOD thing. Prevention of cancer and infectious disease is a very desirable outcome. It's conceivable that this could be a negative in people with pre-existing autoimmune disease, but I can't recall any reports of autoimmune problems as a result of c60-oo use.

PS: Let's get this thread back on topic and discuss resveratrol in the resveratrol forum.

[Chupo]

Regarding c60 and TNF, we have no evidence that c60-oo raises TNF levels. We have two reports that a completely different, water soluble fullerol (a polyhydroxylated c60) slows tumor growth rate in rodents and has immunostimulatory effects in vitro. An shift from Th2 to Th1 cytokine production was seen here, and a TNF increase was noted here. These were in vitro experiments aimed at determining the anti-cancer mechanism of fullerols. IF these results are generalizable to c60-oo, we should note that this kind of immunomodulation is a GOOD thing. Prevention of cancer and infectious disease is a very desirable outcome. It's conceivable that this could be a negative in people with pre-existing autoimmune disease, but I can't recall any reports of autoimmune problems as a result of c60-oo use.

PS: Let's get this thread back on topic and discuss resveratrol in the resveratrol forum.

People have reported improvements in eczema on c60-oo. I've read that eczema is thought to be an autoimune disorder as it tends to show up in tandem with other AI disorders. It could be that c60-oo leads to some sort of immune regulation.

You may want to read these posts about probiotics, specifically Lactobacillus plantarum, and the results people with eczema are seeing with it.

http://mrheisenbug.w...r-human-health/
http://mrheisenbug.w...uccess-stories/

Sorry if I've gone too far off topic.

Edited by Chupo, 31 March 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[katzenjammer]

Do we know how long it takes for C60 to clear from one's system?  I've been taking about 1.5 per day and want to try 4g/week.  

Edited by katzenjammer, 17 July 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[niner]

Do we know how long it takes for C60 to clear from one's system?  I've been taking about 1.5 per day and want to try 4g/week.

We know that if you look at blood, it falls below the limit of detection in a matter of hours, but that doesn't mean it's left the system. The fatty acid adduct of c60 that's formed when it's mixed with olive oil most likely is incorporated into membranes like any other fatty acid. Once in the membrane, it will be there for a long time. Membrane lipids are turned over slowly, and the effective dose for c60 incorporated into a mitochondrial membrane is very low. Depending on how much you've taken, it could take weeks, months, or even years for the levels of c60 in the membrane to drop below the effective level. I assume that you mean 4mg/week, not 4 grams. (that would be a lot, even by Anthony's standards)

If you wanted to run an experiment, you could stop taking it and wait to see when the effects decline. At the dose you've been on, I'd expect it to take between a few weeks and a few months for effects to subside. It would be interesting to get some data on that.

[katzenjammer]

Thanks Niner.  

 

lol, whoops - yes sorry meant mg.  

 

Yes, I'll do that and make note of perceived effects.  

 

If it's incorporated into membranes like that it's hard to understand why frequency of dosage would matter all that much.  

[niner]

If it's incorporated into membranes like that it's hard to understand why frequency of dosage would matter all that much.

My experience has been that it doesn't matter much. I've dosed at frequent intervals in the past, but now I dose once a month, which I find very convenient.

[HighDesertWizard]

Given the overwhelming evidence of Epigenetic impacts on health and longevity in the science of the last 10 years, I appreciate discussion in this thread that proposes a potential, specific case of Epigenetic change taking place with positive impact from something that we can do.

In a couple posts in another thread, I have described an experience that leads me to believe that I may have once triggered significant and positive Epigenetic change in myself by accident: My Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Symptoms vanished virtually overnight via massive doses of Boswellia [AKBA].

 

I mention it here because, among other things, my experience triggers a question about Optimal c60oo Dosing if, in fact, Epigenetic change is sought. Here are some other questions I've been thinking about...

• Because I didn't experience relief from the CTS with recommended, smaller Boswellia [AKBA] dosing, an implication of my experience is that, for short periods of time, massive dosing might be required to trigger Epigenetic change.
• Given my experience, should I (and others?) be dosing with massive Boswellia [AKBA] doses from time to time, e.g., every 6 months?
• What are the implications of my experience, if any, for an optimal C60oo dosing regimen?
• What other drugs/supplements should be considered candidates for this kind of intermittent, massive dosing regimen? An example: I'm thinking Curcumin with high bioavailability...
• Is the kind of follow-up research I did (and posted about) to assess the reasonableness of the view that my experience was a case involving Epigenetic change useful?
• Given my experience, how useful might it be to more proactively search for other substances that might be tried to Consciously and Deliberately Trigger Epigenetic Change...

I'm not a scientist, so I especially appreciate feedback from others more knowledgeable than myself, even if it is contrary to opinions I hold.

Edited by wccaguy, 08 September 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[geo12the]

Could be, and more likely, that your carpal tunnel healed due to mechanisms other than epigenetic. The effects of epigenetic changes are very complex, varied and poorly understood and not something people can try to modulate.  Deliberately trying to cause epigenetic change in yourself is not wise, its playing with a Pandora's box that can have all sorts of negative consequences.

 

 

Given the overwhelming evidence of Epigenetic impacts on health and longevity in the science of the last 10 years, I appreciate discussion in this thread that proposes a potential, specific case of Epigenetic change taking place with positive impact from something that we can do.

In a couple posts in another thread, I have described an experience that leads me to believe that I may have once triggered significant and positive Epigenetic change in myself by accident: My Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Symptoms vanished virtually overnight via massive doses of Boswellia [AKBA].

 

I mention it here because, among other things, my experience triggers a question about Optimal c60oo Dosing if, in fact, Epigenetic change is sought. Here are some other questions I've been thinking about...

• Because I didn't experience relief from the CTS with recommended, smaller Boswellia [AKBA] dosing, an implication of my experience is that, for short periods of time, massive dosing might be required to trigger Epigenetic change.
• Given my experience, should I (and others?) be dosing with massive Boswellia [AKBA] doses from time to time, e.g., every 6 months?
• What are the implications of my experience, if any, for an optimal C60oo dosing regimen?
• What other drugs/supplements should be considered candidates for this kind of intermittent, massive dosing regimen? An example: I'm thinking Curcumin with high bioavailability...
• Is the kind of follow-up research I did (and posted about) to assess the reasonableness of the view that my experience was a case involving Epigenetic change useful?
• Given my experience, how useful might it be to more proactively search for other substances that might be tried to Consciously and Deliberately Trigger Epigenetic Change...

I'm not a scientist, so I especially appreciate feedback from others more knowledgeable than myself, even if it is contrary to opinions I hold.

 

[mikey]

Given the overwhelming evidence of Epigenetic impacts on health and longevity in the science of the last 10 years, I appreciate discussion in this thread that proposes a potential, specific case of Epigenetic change taking place with positive impact from something that we can do.

In a couple posts in another thread, I have described an experience that leads me to believe that I may have once triggered significant and positive Epigenetic change in myself by accident: My Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Symptoms vanished virtually overnight via massive doses of Boswellia [AKBA].

 

I mention it here because, among other things, my experience triggers a question about Optimal c60oo Dosing if, in fact, Epigenetic change is sought. Here are some other questions I've been thinking about...

• Because I didn't experience relief from the CTS with recommended, smaller Boswellia [AKBA] dosing, an implication of my experience is that, for short periods of time, massive dosing might be required to trigger Epigenetic change.
• Given my experience, should I (and others?) be dosing with massive Boswellia [AKBA] doses from time to time, e.g., every 6 months?
• What are the implications of my experience, if any, for an optimal C60oo dosing regimen?
• What other drugs/supplements should be considered candidates for this kind of intermittent, massive dosing regimen? An example: I'm thinking Curcumin with high bioavailability...
• Is the kind of follow-up research I did (and posted about) to assess the reasonableness of the view that my experience was a case involving Epigenetic change useful?
• Given my experience, how useful might it be to more proactively search for other substances that might be tried to Consciously and Deliberately Trigger Epigenetic Change...

I'm not a scientist, so I especially appreciate feedback from others more knowledgeable than myself, even if it is contrary to opinions I hold.

 

Having focused on what constitutes "optimally effective doses" for over 3 decades, I frequently see dosage considerations, being on the low side, when compared to what placebo-controlled studies show to be effective AND safe. For reasons of prudence combined with what might be called "fear of flying" most organizations seem to err (my educated opinion) on the side of safely too little, rather than what is optimal, yet safe.

 

A suggestion is that what might be considered "massive dosing" of Boswellia could be an optimal long-term dose to a master herbalist. So, it is most prudent to evaluate dosing in the published literature and in the reports and statements of progressive master herbalists, such as those found in APHA (American Herbal Products Association).

 

As to optimal dosing for C60oo, I took the rat dosing in the Baati study, divided it by six for human equivalency for my bodyweight (25 mg/day), then, since they were trying to find a toxic dose, I cut that dose by about a third plus.

 

So, I have recorded optimal effects at 7 to 9 mg a day, every day, as I find that C60oo loses one of its most noticeable effects - it takes 3 - 5 times more alcohol to "feel a buzz when I'm taking it," but if I quit C60oo for four days alcohol starts feeling good at a normal dose again.

 

Dosage and frequency of application are controversial topics.

[mikey]

Given the overwhelming evidence of Epigenetic impacts on health and longevity in the science of the last 10 years, I appreciate discussion in this thread that proposes a potential, specific case of Epigenetic change taking place with positive impact from something that we can do.

In a couple posts in another thread, I have described an experience that leads me to believe that I may have once triggered significant and positive Epigenetic change in myself by accident: My Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Symptoms vanished virtually overnight via massive doses of Boswellia [AKBA].

 

I mention it here because, among other things, my experience triggers a question about Optimal c60oo Dosing if, in fact, Epigenetic change is sought. Here are some other questions I've been thinking about...

• Because I didn't experience relief from the CTS with recommended, smaller Boswellia [AKBA] dosing, an implication of my experience is that, for short periods of time, massive dosing might be required to trigger Epigenetic change.
• Given my experience, should I (and others?) be dosing with massive Boswellia [AKBA] doses from time to time, e.g., every 6 months?
• What are the implications of my experience, if any, for an optimal C60oo dosing regimen?
• What other drugs/supplements should be considered candidates for this kind of intermittent, massive dosing regimen? An example: I'm thinking Curcumin with high bioavailability...
• Is the kind of follow-up research I did (and posted about) to assess the reasonableness of the view that my experience was a case involving Epigenetic change useful?
• Given my experience, how useful might it be to more proactively search for other substances that might be tried to Consciously and Deliberately Trigger Epigenetic Change...

I'm not a scientist, so I especially appreciate feedback from others more knowledgeable than myself, even if it is contrary to opinions I hold.

 

BTW: what have you found to be the considered "high dose?"

[HighDesertWizard]

Could be, and more likely, that your carpal tunnel healed due to mechanisms other than epigenetic. The effects of epigenetic changes are very complex, varied and poorly understood and not something people can try to modulate.  Deliberately trying to cause epigenetic change in yourself is not wise, its playing with a Pandora's box that can have all sorts of negative consequences.

 

I provide a personal, n=1, anecdotal report of a significant and positive change in health via larger dosing of an herb, known to ancients 2000+ years ago to promote health, and now known, in dozens of studies, to promote health, including promotion of positive Epigenetic change, and all you've got to say is "it's all so complicated we can't possibly understand it and shouldn't try."

 

Really?

[HighDesertWizard]

So, I have recorded optimal effects at 7 to 9 mg a day, every day, as I find that C60oo loses one of its most noticeable effects - it takes 3 - 5 times more alcohol to "feel a buzz when I'm taking it," but if I quit C60oo for four days alcohol starts feeling good at a normal dose again.

 

Dosage and frequency of application are controversial topics.

 

Appreciate your entire post mikey... You may have mentioned this elsewhere and, if so, a link to your previous answer is appreciated. My question is this...

 

Do one or more studies exist that provide an Explanation of the Mechanism of Action that the Kind of Neuro-Protective Effect that c60oo establishes vis-a-vis alcohol consumption for you? if we knew something about what that Mechanism looked like, wouldn't we have more of a clue about the c60oo Mechanism?

 

 

BTW: what have you found to be the considered "high dose?"

 

I'm very clear about how much I don't know. The experience I described was something of an accident. I'm not a scientist. I've never seen or heard of anyone taking as much 5-Loxin as what I took, i.e., 2g per day. I've been reluctant to talk openly about this positive health effect I experienced because I know I'm no expert about Boswellia and dosing it. And I've never seen or heard anyone else talk about a positive impact on Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from large Boswellia dosing.

For that reason, I believe my experience is unique and finally realized I should be talking more about it. :-)

Edited by wccaguy, 08 September 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[mikey]

 

So, I have recorded optimal effects at 7 to 9 mg a day, every day, as I find that C60oo loses one of its most noticeable effects - it takes 3 - 5 times more alcohol to "feel a buzz when I'm taking it," but if I quit C60oo for four days alcohol starts feeling good at a normal dose again.

 

Dosage and frequency of application are controversial topics.

 

Appreciate your entire post mikey... You may have mentioned this elsewhere and, if so, a link to your previous answer is appreciated. My question is this...

 

Do one or more studies exist that provide an Explanation of the Mechanism of Action that the Kind of Neuro-Protective Effect that c60oo establishes vis-a-vis alcohol consumption for you? if we knew something about what that Mechanism looked like, wouldn't we have more of a clue about the c60oo Mechanism?

 

 

 

I have not found an explanation for C60oo's effect on decreasing the effect of alcohol. However, others on this site have noted it, too.

 

Chemist friends tell me that it isn't likely caused by C60oo's noted profound protection from liver toxicity, as was seen in Baati's study.

Is it a neurotransmitter effect? 

 

Perhaps one of the senior science people here might have a hypothesis.

Edited by mikey, 09 September 2014 - 12:05 AM.

[niner]

Alcohol's MoA is pretty complicated. (lifted straight from Wikipedia)

Ethanol is known to possess the following direct pharmacodynamic actions:

• GABA_A receptor positive allosteric modulator (primarily of δ subunit-containing receptors)
• NMDA receptor negative allosteric modulator
• Glycine receptor positive and negative allosteric modulator
• 5-HT₃ receptor positive allosteric modulator
• nACh receptor positive and negative allosteric modulator
• L-type calcium channel blocker
• GIRK channel opener

Some of its actions on ligand-gated ion channels, specifically the nACh receptors and the glycine receptor, are dose-dependent, with potentiation or inhibition occurring dependent on ethanol concentration. This is because ethanol's effects on these channels are a summation of positive and negative allosteric modulatory actions.

It could be a receptor-mediated interaction with any of these, or it might be a non-specific antioxidant effect that impacts free radical signalling of some sort.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I have not found an explanation for C60oo's effect on decreasing the effect of alcohol. However, others on this site have noted it, too.

 

 

Ethanol is first converted to the toxic acetaldehyde, which is metabolized in the mitochondria. Ethanol does not depress mitochondrial activity but acetaldehyde does, so as more ethanol is converted to acetaldehyde, the mitochondria becomes less efficient at converting it into acetic acid--a vicious circle. In particular, the endogenous antioxidant glutathione is used up in the conversion of ethanol to acetaldehyde to acetic acid, so C60's antioxidant activity and presence in the mitochondria will certainly help matters. So will reduced glutathione, taken orally, in my own experience.

 

The Baati C60 paper showed C60's dramatic effect in the ratio of oxidized to reduced glutathione when subjected to a toxin--

 

Oral pre-treatment with C60-oil significantly prevents the increase of the [oxidized glutathione/total glutathione] ratio in the [C60/OO] group. As compared to the control group, the increase of [oxidized glutathione/total glutathione] in the [C60/OO] group was about 4 times higher only.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 09 September 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[geo12the]

Not saying "it's all so complicated we can't possibly understand it and shouldn't try.", what I am saying is I am skeptical of your hypothesis and their are alternate explanations equally or more plausible. Just my opinion. Epigenetics is extremely complicated and the effects are poorly understood in terms of there can be many different types of epigenetic changes that have all sorts of downstream effects. Not something the average person can try to manipulate. That is a fact.  

 

 

Could be, and more likely, that your carpal tunnel healed due to mechanisms other than epigenetic. The effects of epigenetic changes are very complex, varied and poorly understood and not something people can try to modulate.  Deliberately trying to cause epigenetic change in yourself is not wise, its playing with a Pandora's box that can have all sorts of negative consequences.

 

I provide a personal, n=1, anecdotal report of a significant and positive change in health via larger dosing of an herb, known to ancients 2000+ years ago to promote health, and now known, in dozens of studies, to promote health, including promotion of positive Epigenetic change, and all you've got to say is "it's all so complicated we can't possibly understand it and shouldn't try."

 

Really?

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Looks to me that boswellic acid is very safe, has a long history of use, reduces pain due to inflammation, and prevents cancer by an epigenetic effect. I'm certainly going to give it a try.

 

Safety and Toxicological Evaluation of a Novel, Standardized 3-O-Acetyl-11-keto-beta-Boswellic Acid (AKBA)-Enriched Boswellia serrata Extract (5-Loxin®).

 

The novel anti-inflammatory properties of the gum resin derived from Boswellia serrata, also known as Salai guggal in Ayurvedic medicine, are well recognized and highly recommended for human consumption...A dose-dependent 90-day subchronic toxicity study demonstrated no significant changes in selected organ weights individually and as percentages of body and brain weights. 5-Loxin® supplementation did not cause changes in hepatic DNA fragmentation on 30, 60, or 90 days of treatment. Hematology, clinical chemistry, and histopathological evaluations did not show any adverse effects in all organs tested. Taken together, these results demonstrate the broad spectrum safety of 5-Loxin®.

 

 

Boswellic acid induces epigenetic alterations by modulating DNA methylation in colorectal cancer cells

 

Taken together, these results lend further support to the growing notion that anti-cancer effect of boswellic acids may in part be due to its ability to demethylate and reactivate methylation-silenced tumor suppressor genes. These results suggest that not only boswellic acid might be a promising epigenetic modulator in the chemoprevention and treatment of CRC, but also provide a rationale for future investigations on the usefulness of such botanicals for epigenetic therapy in other human malignancies.

 

 

Mediators of Inflammation-Induced Bone Damage in Arthritis and Their Control by Herbal Products

 

Boswellic acid is a pentacyclic triterpene isolated from boswellia plants. It reduced leukocyte infiltration into the knee joint and the pleural cavity as observed in bovine-serum-albumin- (BSA-) induced arthritis in rabbits [21]. 3-Acetyl-11-keto-beta-boswellic acid (AKBA), which is well known for anti-inflammatory activity, also has antiarthritic activity. (5) Topical application of the polymeric nanomicelles of AKBA showed potent anti-inflammatory and antiarthritic activities 

 

 

[sofaking]

After all, Boswellia was given to baby Jesus. It's the frankincense in the gifts of the magi. Myrr is a synergistic agent that makes boswellia more active. Didn't you always wonder why the wise men gave such strange presents? For eternal life in an earthly body, of course! He really screwed it up with the martyr cross thing though.