331 replies to this topic

[niner]

I have not found an explanation for C60oo's effect on decreasing the effect of alcohol. However, others on this site have noted it, too.

Ethanol is first converted to the toxic acetaldehyde, which is metabolized in the mitochondria. Ethanol does not depress mitochondrial activity but acetaldehyde does, so as more ethanol is converted to acetaldehyde, the mitochondria becomes less efficient at converting it into acetic acid--a vicious circle. In particular, the endogenous antioxidant glutathione is used up in the conversion of ethanol to acetaldehyde to acetic acid, so C60's antioxidant activity and presence in the mitochondria will certainly help matters. So will reduced glutathione, taken orally, in my own experience.

This is probably at least part of the reason, if not most of it, that c60 seems to reduce hangover. The effect on the high is probably yet another mechanism.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

I have not found an explanation for C60oo's effect on decreasing the effect of alcohol. However, others on this site have noted it, too.

Ethanol is first converted to the toxic acetaldehyde, which is metabolized in the mitochondria. Ethanol does not depress mitochondrial activity but acetaldehyde does, so as more ethanol is converted to acetaldehyde, the mitochondria becomes less efficient at converting it into acetic acid--a vicious circle. In particular, the endogenous antioxidant glutathione is used up in the conversion of ethanol to acetaldehyde to acetic acid, so C60's antioxidant activity and presence in the mitochondria will certainly help matters. So will reduced glutathione, taken orally, in my own experience.

 

This is probably at least part of the reason, if not most of it, that c60 seems to reduce hangover. The effect on the high is probably yet another mechanism.

 

 

Likely the acetaldehyde is contributing to the high. Those without sufficient acetaldehyde dehydrogenase get drunk faster, and the related and more potent formaldehyde has been used as a recreational drug.

[niner]

Looks to me that boswellic acid is very safe, has a long history of use, reduces pain due to inflammation, and prevents cancer by an epigenetic effect. I'm certainly going to give it a try.
 

Safety and Toxicological Evaluation of a Novel, Standardized 3-O-Acetyl-11-keto-beta-Boswellic Acid (AKBA)-Enriched Boswellia serrata Extract (5-Loxin®).
 
The novel anti-inflammatory properties of the gum resin derived from Boswellia serrata, also known as Salai guggal in Ayurvedic medicine, are well recognized and highly recommended for human consumption...A dose-dependent 90-day subchronic toxicity study demonstrated no significant changes in selected organ weights individually and as percentages of body and brain weights. 5-Loxin® supplementation did not cause changes in hepatic DNA fragmentation on 30, 60, or 90 days of treatment. Hematology, clinical chemistry, and histopathological evaluations did not show any adverse effects in all organs tested. Taken together, these results demonstrate the broad spectrum safety of 5-Loxin®.

 

Boswellic acid induces epigenetic alterations by modulating DNA methylation in colorectal cancer cells
 
Taken together, these results lend further support to the growing notion that anti-cancer effect of boswellic acids may in part be due to its ability to demethylate and reactivate methylation-silenced tumor suppressor genes. These results suggest that not only boswellic acid might be a promising epigenetic modulator in the chemoprevention and treatment of CRC, but also provide a rationale for future investigations on the usefulness of such botanicals for epigenetic therapy in other human malignancies.

 
Mediators of Inflammation-Induced Bone Damage in Arthritis and Their Control by Herbal Products

Boswellic acid is a pentacyclic triterpene isolated from boswellia plants. It reduced leukocyte infiltration into the knee joint and the pleural cavity as observed in bovine-serum-albumin- (BSA-) induced arthritis in rabbits [21]. 3-Acetyl-11-keto-beta-boswellic acid (AKBA), which is well known for anti-inflammatory activity, also has antiarthritic activity. (5) Topical application of the polymeric nanomicelles of AKBA showed potent anti-inflammatory and antiarthritic activities

 

In the second reference, they say:
 

To elucidate whether AKBA (the molecular structure: Fig. 1A) has any growth inhibitory effects in CRC cells, we performed MTT assays to determine cell viability in RKO, SW48, and SW480 cell lines treated with boswellic acid. We found that AKBA treatment for 72 h resulted in a dose-dependent growth inhibition in all three CRC cell lines: 1–16% with 5 μM doses, 10–18% with 10 μM, 35–46% with 20 μM, and 89–98% with 40 μM AKBA [in all CRC cell lines vs. control cell lines (Fig. 1B)]. To further confirm the inhibitory effects of AKBA on cell proliferation, we performed BrdU assays and observed a similar dose-dependent effect on cell proliferation in all cell lines. There was little effect of AKBA in RKO and SW480 cells treated with 5 or 10 μM concentrations, but we observed a 12–53% inhibition in cell proliferation with the 20 μM doses and a 91–99% inhibition with 40 μM AKBA in all CRC cell lines after 96 h of treatment

 

AKBA and boswellic acids in general are very hydrophobic and have pretty good bioavailability, but these long treatment times and high concentrations may be difficult to obtain in vivo.  However, in a human PK study, subjects given 333mg boswellia serrata extract attained a peak plasma level of 3 uM AKBA, suggesting that repeated multi-gram doses might well be able to effect demethylation in vivo, at least at a moderate level.   A moderate level may be all that is needed. 

 

I think a more likely explanation for the carpal tunnel effect that wccaguy reported is the sort of anti-inflammatory activity noted in the third reference.  Boswellia is perhaps best known as a 5-LO inhibitor.  5-LO is a key early step in inflammatory mediator formation.

[niner]

Likely the acetaldehyde is contributing to the high. Those without sufficient acetaldehyde dehydrogenase get drunk faster, and the related and more potent formaldehyde has been used as a recreational drug.

 

Some people of East Asian descent have a variant of alcohol dehydrogenase that is more efficient (by as much as a factor of 100) than the usual isoform.  As a result, they quickly build up a high level of acetaldehyde, which leads to the characteristic "Asian Flush".  They don't actually get drunk faster, in fact, they generally don't get the "buzz" at all.  Rather, they get sick faster.  Compounding the problem of the hyperactive alcohol dehydrogenase is a frequently co-occurring under-active acetaldehyde dehydrogenase.  From everything I've read about it, it doesn't sound like the acetaldehyde "high" is much of a high.  More like poisoning.  It doesn't sound pleasant.   I can't say that I've ever done formaldehyde-- Seems like an error.  It might even be a myth originating from the use of the term "embalming fluid" for PCP solutions, leading people to think that real embalming fluid would get them high.

[HighDesertWizard]

The last decade has witnessed the accumulation of overwhelming evidence that Epigenetic factors play an extremely significant role in health disorders and aging. (I assume participants in this discussion don't need reference links from me to support that statement, though I can provide them if needed).
 
Still, aging disorders and aging itself are discussed at Longecity all the time, and at length, with little or no reference to the possibility of specific Epigenetic Factor Roots. And without discussion of that possibility, there can be no speculation and research about Methods and Substances that may Reverse these Epigenetic factors negatively impacting health.
 
I think this unfortunate because the development of Informed, Conscious, and Deliberate interventions intended to have positive Epigenetic effects could be a specific and profound means for getting across, what Kurzweil calls, the Second Bridge to Extreme Longevity.

Not trying to hijack this thread to discuss Boswellia. I am trying to highlight the difficulty of getting serious discussion kicked off of specific Epigenetic Impacts and Interventions.
 
I'm Not suggesting that I've provided conclusive proof that my 5-Loxin, Boswellia [AKBA] dosing regimen Cured my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome via Epigenetic means. I am suggesting that, given the overwhelming evidence of Epigenetic Effects in health disorders, I've provided references to evidence that make an Epigenetics Impact Explanation of my CTS Cure as plausible as any other.

I've provided references to evidence represented by all the lines in the attached snapshot. (The dotted line represents my anecdotal experience.)

I put it to you...

• A probably true fact... Someone, somewhere at Longecity has posted an Anecdotal story of a Positive Health event triggered, in fact, by Epigenetic means. Still, the Likely cause has been attributed to some other cause. I'd like to see that story. Where is the link to it?
   
• At this point in time, has anyone else provided the kind of evidence I've provided as the kind one ought to expect a plausible case for some specific Epigenetic Impact to provide? If yes, please point me to it.
   
• But if not, and I this question in all seriousness, what kinds of additional evidence would need to be provided to get a reply by the most scientifically informed here: "an Epigenetic Mechanism Explanation for this specific Anecdotal CTS Cure is as plausible as any other."

Attached Files

•  LongecityCTSEpigeneticsCauses.PNG   18.64KB   2 downloads

Edited by wccaguy, 10 September 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[sofaking]

Isn't evidence of epigenetic impact all around us? Our bodies simply respond to environmental inputs.

 

If you don't exercise, your muscles respond by atrophy; if you start running, your muscles respond and build better running muscles.

 

If you breath through your mouth and keep your mouth open all the time, your jaw gets the message and never builds your facial structure properly leaving you with a receding chin and long face; if you keep your mouth together/teeth together/tongue on the roof of your mouth, your bones get the message to grow symmetrically and classically beautiful. 

 

If you don't get the proper share of fat soluble vitamins, your bones grow long (maybe) and slim and eventually weaken; if you do, you get to have strong resilient bones longer in life. Likewise if you don't put any weight on your bones (sedentary or in space), they weaken; if you do strength training exercise or rebounding, your bones gets stronger and denser. 

 

It's hard to doubt epigenetic effects when they are all around us.

[Turnbuckle]

I don't believe those are necessarily epigenetic effects, sofaking, though in some cases they might be. Epigenetics has to do with chemical groups added to DNA that turn genes off. These are generally through methylation, and can sometimes be inherited. It's also how cell types are differentiated.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 10 September 2014 - 05:20 PM.

[sofaking]

I hear your definition, Turnbuckle, but the physical things we do also cause chemical signals which turn genes on and off. It is a broader way of looking at epigenetics than just inputting straight chemicals, but I would argue more accurate and also more applicable to personal use and understanding. 

 

For example, meditation changes the brain - not through chemical inputs but by thinking in a different way which generates different chemical signals.

 

I'm not trying to debate this nor am I qualified to. However I think expanding the definition helps everybody and makes us more responsible and accountable for our actions and environment.

[geo12the]

Epigenetics is used to describe a particular phenomenon by which chemical changes in DNA unrelated to changes in the genetic code can effect gene expression. These changes are inherited  in progeny cells. The Wikipedia page on this is kind of weak but here is a good explanation:

 

http://www.whatisepi...m/fundamentals/

 

Broadening the definition of an established scientific term is too confusing, and beyond the scope of someone not directly involved in the science of the field.

 

Epigenetics plays a huge role in development on many many levels and has been linked to diseases and cancer. But teasing out how to manipulate epigenetics for human health is difficult because the wrong epigenetic changes can have negative consequences like cancer.  Many chemicals that have strong effects on epigenetic changes are carcinogens. In the future therapeutics targeted to produce specific beneficial epigenetic changes may be a available. 

 

To prove that your carpel tunnel was cured by Boswellia because of an epigenetic effect you would have to analyze your DNA before and after treatment and look for the epigenetic changes. Not saying its not possible but difficult to prove. I would just be happy its cured. 

 

 

 

 

I hear your definition, Turnbuckle, but the physical things we do also cause chemical signals which turn genes on and off. It is a broader way of looking at epigenetics than just inputting straight chemicals, but I would argue more accurate and also more applicable to personal use and understanding. 

 

For example, meditation changes the brain - not through chemical inputs but by thinking in a different way which generates different chemical signals.

 

I'm not trying to debate this nor am I qualified to. However I think expanding the definition helps everybody and makes us more responsible and accountable for our actions and environment.

 

[sofaking]

Okey dokey then. I'll admit that I've been reading a lot of far out books that play fast and loose with the term epigenetics, is all.

 

Books like "Biology of Belief", "Biology of Transcendence" and especially "Deep Nutrition: Why your Genes Need Traditional Food" rely on a foundation that you can turn genes on and off with conscious inputs of every sort. 

 

Another small example - a stressed pregnant lady produces more cortisol, which is a chemical that crosses the placenta and physically changes the growing fetus and stunts the growth of its prefrontal cortex. These are physical changes that manifest as a result of genes being turned on or off. 

 

But I'll lay off on it if everyone is only interested in the epigenetic effects of ingesting chemical compounds. 

/edited for double post, sorry

Edited by sofaking, 10 September 2014 - 07:03 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

An epigenetic change is a chemical change at the level of the DNA. It is not a change to the DNA code, but to the side groups that determine what genes are on or off. Since it's a chemical change, chemicals are always involved at the cellular level, but that doesn't mean the ultimate cause isn't food or exercise or the climate, or the like, only that the DNA is modified chemically as a result. But if you lose an arm in an accident, that is not an epigenetic change. If you lose weight, that is not an epigenetic change...usually. You have to look at the DNA to tell. And generally speaking an epigenetic change will last for a very long time, unlike losing or gaining weight.

[HighDesertWizard]

<< SNIP >>

In the future therapeutics targeted to produce specific beneficial epigenetic changes may be a available. 

 

To prove that your carpel tunnel was cured by Boswellia because of an epigenetic effect you would have to analyze your DNA before and after treatment and look for the epigenetic changes. Not saying its not possible but difficult to prove. I would just be happy its cured. 

geo12the...

 

I've never suggested that I believe its possible to Prove an Epigenetic Effect Cured my CTS. I have suggested that an Explanation involving an Epigenetic Effect was as plausible as any other Explanations I've heard. But you believe differently and I think that's great.

 

Not saying "it's all so complicated we can't possibly understand it and shouldn't try.", what I am saying is I am skeptical of your hypothesis and their are alternate explanations equally or more plausible. Just my opinion. 

 

Could you please take a few minutes to provide the list of "alternate explanations [that are] equally or more plausible." Please keep in mind what those alternative Explanations need to Explain...

• 2 members of my immediate family have had surgery for CTS, indicating some kind of (epi)genetic predisposition to CTS.
• I am a professional software developer so my wrists are also subject to Mechanical Stress that can lead to CTS.
• All my CTS Symptoms Vanished after ingesting large doses of 5-Loxin Boswellia [AKBA] for a month.​
• My CTS Symptoms have never returned. I was, in fact, cured.
• But fool that I am, I have never taken Boswellia again in any significant doses since that time.

Talking about this experience again has inspired me to rethink Boswellia and I hope to develop a strategy for taking it again in the near future.

Thanks in advance for providing alternative explanations!

Edited by wccaguy, 10 September 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[niner]

The other main plausible explanation is that you took a large dose of a known anti-inflammatory compound, and it allowed your CTS to heal.  This sort of behavior is not uncommon with inflammatory conditions.  I'm not saying this HAS to be what happened, but it's a plausible explanation. 

 

It seems like there is a lot of talk going around as to how epigenetics is the cause/cure for all disease.  It's the go-to explanation for anything that seems to last a long time, and I think that it's being overused in general.  I'm not saying that it can't possibly be involved in your CTS experience.

[Turnbuckle]

...
I propose that C60oo acts on the hypothalamus either by its antioxidant effect or by direct stimulation. The hypothalamus in turns stimulates the production of growth and sex hormones, this explains the observed effects, of stem cell stimulation ( hair growth, hair regimentation arthritic knee regeneration ) skin tightening, increased strength and endurance, increased sleep and dreaming, increased sexual desire,vaginal lubrication and resumption of menses. Once again younger users don't experience these changes as their hormone levels are not sufficiently reduced so that they notice the restoration of hormonal production.
My theory could be tested by blood testing for hypothalamus hormones ( growth hormone releasing hormone etc), ideally with a before and after test, but failing that a blood test looking for elevated ( age adjusted ) hypothalamus hormone levels.

 

I've used C60 for 2.5 years now, and after 1.5 years I noticed that my shoe size had increased. This had been stable for more than 40 years, but about a year ago I had to increase it by 1/2 US. This is not all that rare, I believe, so it may be coincidental. But something to look out for, especially as mpe notes, some of the C60 effects are consistent with increased growth hormone.

[Turnbuckle]

As for the boswellia discussion above, I gave it a try on two successive days, taking a rather large dose of 1.5 grams the first day and 2 grams the second. By the next day I had sore muscles as if I'd had a particularly hard workout, which I had not. This was not unpleasant. My joints felt about as usual, certainly no better. However after the second day, I still had the muscle  pain and felt rather more joint pain than normal, and one knee in particular felt about as bad as it has for years. So I discontinued it. The various pains went away rapidly and now are about down to normal. I did have a bit of swelling in my feet afterward, but not clear if this was from boswellia. In any case, it seems to be disappearing. 

 

Details:

Source Natural Boswellia extract 

243 mg boswellic acids per tablet. Recommended dose: 1 tablet 3 times a day.

I took a single dose of 6 tablets the first day and 8 the next.

[HighDesertWizard]

As for the boswellia discussion above, I gave it a try on two successive days, taking a rather large dose of 1.5 grams the first day and 2 grams the second. By the next day I had sore muscles as if I'd had a particularly hard workout, which I had not. This was not unpleasant. My joints felt about as usual, certainly no better. However after the second day, I still had the muscle  pain and felt rather more joint pain than normal, and one knee in particular felt about as bad as it has for years. So I discontinued it. The various pains went away rapidly and now are about down to normal. I did have a bit of swelling in my feet afterward, but not clear if this was from boswellia. In any case, it seems to be disappearing. 

 

Details:

Source Natural Boswellia extract 

243 mg boswellic acids per tablet. Recommended dose: 1 tablet 3 times a day.

I took a single dose of 6 tablets the first day and 8 the next.

 

I've spent several hundred hours doing research about Boswellia. I would never use anything but some version of a Boswellia [AKBA] formulation...

I just got my hands on a good amount of Boswellia [AKBA] powder and will be making my own large dose capsules again to try... Will report back...

[mpe]

As for the boswellia discussion above, I gave it a try on two successive days, taking a rather large dose of 1.5 grams the first day and 2 grams the second. By the next day I had sore muscles as if I'd had a particularly hard workout, which I had not. This was not unpleasant. My joints felt about as usual, certainly no better. However after the second day, I still had the muscle pain and felt rather more joint pain than normal, and one knee in particular felt about as bad as it has for years. So I discontinued it. The various pains went away rapidly and now are about down to normal. I did have a bit of swelling in my feet afterward, but not clear if this was from boswellia. In any case, it seems to be disappearing.

Details:
Source Natural Boswellia extract
243 mg boswellic acids per tablet. Recommended dose: 1 tablet 3 times a day.
I took a single dose of 6 tablets the first day and 8 the next.

Sorry, I don't understand, how would taking large doses of an anti -inflammatory cause swelling and pain ?

Mike

[Turnbuckle]

 

As for the boswellia discussion above, I gave it a try on two successive days, taking a rather large dose of 1.5 grams the first day and 2 grams the second. By the next day I had sore muscles as if I'd had a particularly hard workout, which I had not. This was not unpleasant. My joints felt about as usual, certainly no better. However after the second day, I still had the muscle pain and felt rather more joint pain than normal, and one knee in particular felt about as bad as it has for years. So I discontinued it. The various pains went away rapidly and now are about down to normal. I did have a bit of swelling in my feet afterward, but not clear if this was from boswellia. In any case, it seems to be disappearing.

Details:
Source Natural Boswellia extract
243 mg boswellic acids per tablet. Recommended dose: 1 tablet 3 times a day.
I took a single dose of 6 tablets the first day and 8 the next.

Sorry, I don't understand, how would taking large doses of an anti -inflammatory cause swelling and pain ?

Mike

 

 

There are some claims that it can lower cholesterol levels, and perhaps that was the source of my problem. After taking Crestor for six months several years ago, I became sensitized to statins and noticed the return of muscle pain even after a day or two of very low doses.

[HighDesertWizard]

I've noticed some consistency of anecdotal claims of better sleep, more vivid dreams, increased stamina, increased libido across those supplementing TA-65 and those ingesting C60-OO. Might C60-OO be triggeringTelomerase Activation and/or reducing oxidative stress in a way that reduces the rate of Telomere Length Reduction?

Edited by wccaguy, 22 October 2014 - 03:47 AM.

[niner]

I've noticed some consistency of anecdotal claims of better sleep, more vivid dreams, increased stamina, increased libido across those supplementing TA-65 and those ingesting C60-OO. Might C60-OO be triggeringTelomerase Activation and/or reducing oxidative stress in a way that reduces the rate of Telomere Length Reduction?

 

I very much doubt that it's acting as a telomerase inducer, but it may well reduce the rate of telomere shrinkage by an antioxidant mechanism.   The increased stamina from c60 is immediate and measurable.  Increased stamina resulting from lengthening of critically short telomeres would take a lot longer to show up, if it does at all, and would come on gradually.   Effects like better sleep, more vivid dreams, and increased libido are prone to psychological influences, and in many cases are placebo effects, although there are compounds that do affect these things.  I've not noticed any of them from c60, and have never tried TA65, although I probably will one of these days.

[HighDesertWizard]

I came across this 1 page document entitled C60 and Telomeres. I've pasted in the entire text of the 1 page pdf because it is so brief.

 

-----------------------

C60 & telomeres

 

There are reasons to suspect that the longevity due to C60 is related to maintaining telomere length.

 

1. The life extension in the Moussa rat experiment is about 100% (including the rat that was prematurely killed). Although I do not know the maximum lifespan of the species used it may safely be assumed that with a 100% extension of the mean lifespan the maximal lifespan has been exceeded.

 

2. Molecular biologists compute maximum lifespan on the basis of the rate of telomere shrinkage. For man this is 120 years, which tallies with the lifespan of the oldest human (Jean Calment) of 122 years.

 

3. Dutch scientists have found (in a post-mortem) study of the oldest Dutch person ever - Hendrikje van Andel, 115 years - that certain white blood cells normally derived from roughly 1300 stem cells, were (at the time of death) the ‘offspring’ of only 2 stem cells. It may safely be assumed that these stem cells have died from critically short telomeres.

 

This more or less confirms the theoretical prediction (cited above). So, it seems extremely unlikely that maximum lifespan can be exceeded without preserving telomere length.

 

I suggest that the relationship between C60, lifespan and telomere length be investigated.

 

The antioxidant action of C60, though important, is unable to explain the enormous life extension, unless it can be shown that it works by inhibiting telomere shrinkage (which is partly the result of free radicals).

 

Prof. Dr. J.G. Defares

James.defares@planet.nl

[Turnbuckle]

 

I came across this 1 page document entitled C60 and Telomeres. I've pasted in the entire text of the 1 page pdf because it is so brief.

 

 

 

 

This is no more than hot air on the part of the professor-doctor. 

[HighDesertWizard]

This is no more than hot air on the part of the professor-doctor. 

 

I'm a software guy, Turnbuckle. This Longevity stuff is my hobby. I always value your insight. Thanks!

[Andey]

 

This is no more than hot air on the part of the professor-doctor. 

 

I'm a software guy, Turnbuckle. This Longevity stuff is my hobby. I always value your insight. Thanks!

 

 

 

  Hopefully someday in a future we could say that 10 fold increased human lifespan is not possible without telomere extension...)) At this moment of time though we could not even say that c60 even touches lifespan let alone draw any telomere related conclusions.

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

This is no more than hot air on the part of the professor-doctor. 

 

I'm a software guy, Turnbuckle. This Longevity stuff is my hobby. I always value your insight. Thanks!

 

 

 

  Hopefully someday in a future we could say that 10 fold increased human lifespan is not possible without telomere extension...)) At this moment of time though we could not even say that c60 even touches lifespan let alone draw any telomere related conclusions.

 

 

 

 

Exactly right. Rats and mice have much longer telomeres to begin with (5-10 times longer than humans), so if a rat lived twice as long due to some supplement, it is most likely not because the supplement had any effect on its telomeres. Thus a doubling of a rat's lifespan doesn't mean a human will see the same benefit. As noted below, you can knock out telomerase in mice with genetic manipulation and telomere shortening won't become at issue for their progeny for several generations.

 

In humans, both in vivo and in vitro, telomere shortening appears to be a major component of cell senescence and ageing (reviewed in 11,12). Telomeres have been reported to shorten during post-natal development and ageing in liver (13,14), kidney (15) and lymphocytes (16). However, this is less apparent in mice because of the very long telomeres (30–150 kb). Telomere shortening has been extensively studied in mice, especially in telomerase-deficient knockout mice (17–19). In these mice, the critical RNA component of telomerase, mTERC, has been inactivated by homologous recombination. However, it is only after four to six generations that telomere shortening really becomes an issue (20,21).

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....cles/PMC149817/

 

 

It is likely, therefore, that the enhancement of longevity is due to improved functioning of the mitochondria, and there is a lot of evidence for that, including the presence of C60 in the mitochondria but not in the nucleus.

[spirilla01]

I do not mean to hijack this thread , but  would be very grateful if you would be kind to recommend me a starting dose ?

I´m 44 and in otherwise good health, weight is 72 kg. 

I have to 30ml bottles from carbon60oliveoil.com and am a little hesitant on the dosing ?

thanks in advance .

 

[Adaptogen]

I came across some interesting C60 suspensions being sold by a Japanese company:
http://www.atr-atr.c...dispersion.html
Purported applications

It seems that Fathi Moussa met with this company in June of 2014.
http://www.dadec60.c...news.asp?id=194

 

likely this is part of the same company as the japanese link above, as they have the same product line

Edited by Adaptogen, 27 October 2014 - 08:37 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I do not mean to hijack this thread , but  would be very grateful if you would be kind to recommend me a starting dose ?

I´m 44 and in otherwise good health, weight is 72 kg. 

I have to 30ml bottles from carbon60oliveoil.com and am a little hesitant on the dosing ?

thanks in advance .

 

People here are taking various doses on various schedules ranging from daily to monthly. (See the C60 poll). I post mine on my profile page (click my avatar).

[spirilla01]

thanks a lot,

will try to go with 1mg for the first week and then move on to 7mg /week.

[pone11]

The continuous decline in the number of reps I could do before onset of muscle fatigue after cessation of c60 is inconsistent with the epigenetic hypothesis (this is not a theory, it has not been tested in any way). All the effects that have been observed with c60-oo are consistent with biphasic kinetics and a very low threshold concentration in mitochondrial membranes. The c60-oo is rapidly cleared from blood, but the very low concentration that remains in membranes is cleared very slowly. If Baati didn't see it in organs, the concentration was probably below the limit of detection for the chromatographic method he used. A 14C label experiment would be the way to test this.

 

Did Baati or any other researcher attempt to find the C60 concentration in mitochondrial components, not just whole cells?   How much remains at each measurement time in mitochondrial outer membranes, inner membranes, and in the matrix?

 

Are there even practical techniques to measure such things?