331 replies to this topic

[hav]

Just to add a little perspective, thought I'd mention the somewhat higher dosage my wife and I take. Trying to stay a little closer to the Baati levels and don't adjust for comparative metabolic rates since lipid-dissolved c60 has not been shown to be metabolized or eliminated in feces or urine. (I'm still mystified on how it might get diminished. Exfoliation?) So we're now taking 45 ml of .8mg/ml solution each for 32 mg of C60 once a week. That's after the initial 1st month of loading at the same dose daily.

An eventual intermission period sounds like a reasonable idea, however. In the Baati study, they discontinued treatment for almost 2 years before the subjects died of old age. And the positive effects on tumors and cancer prevention did not seem to have worn off yet. So I'm thinking that maybe after 2 years, I'll taket a 2-year break. And then start over again with the same routine including a reloading month. Got about a year and a half to decide for sure.

Howard

Edited by hav, 27 December 2012 - 08:40 PM.

[mikey]

"...You look maybe 2 or 3 years younger." Another friend who I hadn't seen since before I started C60 said basically the same thing.

So, I'm putting in a note about continuous dosing producing an anti-aging skin result, at the very least.

I get 2-3 from different mirrors in the house. 10-20 should be your goal.

My goal is, of course, more.

For Mitch to say 2 to 3 years is pretty good - that he noticed that I look younger at all means something.

He's a kindof snotty, funny world-class neuromuscular therapist. He took care of Michael Jackson and his dancers during the making of "Thriller." Barishnikov is a regular. His list of celebrity clients is amazing. So not only did he say that I looked younger, but he asked me for some C60, so I sold him a bottle of the C60oo that I buy from Carbon.

Knowing Mitch, he could say any numbers and it wouldn't mean as much as him noticing less wrinkles and wanting some C60.

I am waiting for the photographer who took the photo I have up to come and take more similar photos - this would be a year later than that photo. Then we can compare and see.

I'm very happy that some wrinkles are noticeably about a third as deep as they were.
And that two friends noticed the same difference - that I look younger enough that they said it.

I was a Christmas party with a dozen who were from 50 to 78 years old. One of the smartest people there, a Methodist minister guessed I was 42 and was surprised when I corrected her, telling her that I am 59.

I've been taking a wide variety of very high potency nutrients for 45 years, and living a very healthy lifestyle with some aberrations.

Since I started C60oo, there has been a definite improvement in my collagen that appears to be a reversal of skin aging.

After having three different telomere tests, with Repeat Diagnostics and Spectracell saying that I was 59, and Lifelength saying I was 70, I wonder how much telomer tests really mean. Lifelength says that they are the only company that measures % of short telomeres and are trying to defend my challenge to their test.

I take 4,500 mg of EPA/DHA a day and have for about eight years because it stops my afib.

If n-3's slow telomere loss, then it would seem that I might measure as less than 59 years old, but I don't.

[Chupo]

Mikey,

Can you see any individual hairs that are bi-colored so you can see where the hair was once unpigmented and then where it's colored?

Edited by Chupoman, 28 December 2012 - 02:27 AM.

[mikey]

Mikey,

Can you see any individual hairs that are bi-colored so you can see where the hair was once unpigmented and then where it's colored?

Yes. I think so. I notice it on the sides, which were extremely white, but now a good portion of it is darkening.

[Turnbuckle]

Over the past 8 months of intermittent C60 use, I've seen age regression that varies depending on how I measure it. Hair was fast, veins not at all.

20-30 year regression -- bald spot in back. (first noticed in second month, and slow improvement since).
10 year regression -- thinning on top.
10 year regression -- skin. Less wrinkling, more resilience.
10 year regression -- oxygen utilization while running (this was within hours and persists today)
0 regression -- small veins in face visible under bright light and magnification
0 regression -- hair color

The anti-oxidant effect (as opposed to the persistent effects) is most noticeable with alcohol. This has no negative aftereffects if I've taken a dose of C60 that day. This is better than it ever was and there are only minor effects if I've taken C60 a week before. A 30 year age regression on average. There may be a stabilization on blood sugar, as I don't seem to need cinnamon anymore. If so, this would be a 20 year regression.

[Andey]

Over the past 8 months of intermittent C60 use, I've seen age regression that varies depending on how I measure it. Hair was fast, veins not at all.

20-30 year regression -- bald spot in back. (first noticed in second month, and slow improvement since).
10 year regression -- thinning on top.
10 year regression -- skin. Less wrinkling, more resilience.
10 year regression -- oxygen utilization while running (this was within hours and persists today)
0 regression -- small veins in face visible under bright light and magnification
0 regression -- hair color

The anti-oxidant effect (as opposed to the persistent effects) is most noticeable with alcohol. This has no negative aftereffects if I've taken a dose of C60 that day. This is better than it ever was and there are only minor effects if I've taken C60 a week before. A 30 year age regression on average. There may be a stabilization on blood sugar, as I don't seem to need cinnamon anymore. If so, this would be a 20 year regression.

Impressive progress )
Why do you think that vein visibility is reversable ?

[Turnbuckle]

Over the past 8 months of intermittent C60 use, I've seen age regression that varies depending on how I measure it. Hair was fast, veins not at all.

20-30 year regression -- bald spot in back. (first noticed in second month, and slow improvement since).
10 year regression -- thinning on top.
10 year regression -- skin. Less wrinkling, more resilience.
10 year regression -- oxygen utilization while running (this was within hours and persists today)
0 regression -- small veins in face visible under bright light and magnification
0 regression -- hair color

The anti-oxidant effect (as opposed to the persistent effects) is most noticeable with alcohol. This has no negative aftereffects if I've taken a dose of C60 that day. This is better than it ever was and there are only minor effects if I've taken C60 a week before. A 30 year age regression on average. There may be a stabilization on blood sugar, as I don't seem to need cinnamon anymore. If so, this would be a 20 year regression.

Impressive progress )
Why do you think that vein visibility is reversable ?

I didn't. I had no reason to expect any particular improvement except longevity and resistance to toxins. The hair regrowth was a surprise, and once I got to thinking C60 might be stimulating stem cells, anything seemed possible. Unfortunately, my (very light) telangiectasia rosacea is probably irreversible except by destroying the capillaries themselves. But if anyone knows otherwise, do post it.

[Junk Master]

Just wanted to report that after approximately a two month cessation of c60/OO, I feel I've retained most of the benefits of my initial dosing.

I'm definitely in the intermittent dosing camp.

How long between doses is the question?

[Andey]

Impressive progress )
Why do you think that vein visibility is reversable ?

I didn't. I had no reason to expect any particular improvement except longevity and resistance to toxins. The hair regrowth was a surprise, and once I got to thinking C60 might be stimulating stem cells, anything seemed possible. Unfortunately, my (very light) telangiectasia rosacea is probably irreversible except by destroying the capillaries themselves. But if anyone knows otherwise, do post it.

I thought that you have some specific mechanism of action of C60 in mind when wrote about veins - this will be interesting topic.

As for me I have no definite regimen for c60 - may be 2 times per week near 5mg each and effects are consistant. I see no visual effects (I am 35yo) but endurance stays increased and alcohol tolerance during this festive days is definitely great.

Edited by Andey, 28 December 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[hav]

...
Since I started C60oo, there has been a definite improvement in my collagen that appears to be a reversal of skin aging.

After having three different telomere tests, with Repeat Diagnostics and Spectracell saying that I was 59, and Lifelength saying I was 70, I wonder how much telomer tests really mean. Lifelength says that they are the only company that measures % of short telomeres and are trying to defend my challenge to their test.

I take 4,500 mg of EPA/DHA a day and have for about eight years because it stops my afib.

If n-3's slow telomere loss, then it would seem that I might measure as less than 59 years old, but I don't.

Not sure what telomere length-to-age numbers are based on. Is it a national or world-wide average? If telomere length is affected by things like stress, I imagine the numbers would be pretty different for typical residents of different places... like NYC and Honolulu. In any event, I think you should concern yourself more with the delta over a reasonable length of time. Which from what I've read in the astragalus thread would probably be around a year. I think its terrific that you've nailed down baselines for yourself. I've never had one done. I don't know where or how to begin. I assume for a non-medical person like myself, I need to locate a local doctor or lab familiar with the assay kits. A thread devoted to telomere testing would really be great!

Howard

[Turnbuckle]

...
Since I started C60oo, there has been a definite improvement in my collagen that appears to be a reversal of skin aging.

After having three different telomere tests, with Repeat Diagnostics and Spectracell saying that I was 59, and Lifelength saying I was 70, I wonder how much telomer tests really mean. Lifelength says that they are the only company that measures % of short telomeres and are trying to defend my challenge to their test.

I take 4,500 mg of EPA/DHA a day and have for about eight years because it stops my afib.

If n-3's slow telomere loss, then it would seem that I might measure as less than 59 years old, but I don't.

Not sure what telomere length-to-age numbers are based on. Is it a national or world-wide average? If telomere length is affected by things like stress, I imagine the numbers would be pretty different for typical residents of different places... like NYC and Honolulu. In any event, I think you should concern yourself more with the delta over a reasonable length of time. Which from what I've read in the astragalus thread would probably be around a year. I think its terrific that you've nailed down baselines for yourself. I've never had one done. I don't know where or how to begin. I assume for a non-medical person like myself, I need to locate a local doctor or lab familiar with the assay kits. A thread devoted to telomere testing would really be great!

Howard

if you've ever seen a plot of the raw data and how weak the correlation is, you wouldn't waste your money on tests--

http://www.wired.com...omere_graph.jpg

[mikey]

...
Since I started C60oo, there has been a definite improvement in my collagen that appears to be a reversal of skin aging.

After having three different telomere tests, with Repeat Diagnostics and Spectracell saying that I was 59, and Lifelength saying I was 70, I wonder how much telomer tests really mean. Lifelength says that they are the only company that measures % of short telomeres and are trying to defend my challenge to their test.

I take 4,500 mg of EPA/DHA a day and have for about eight years because it stops my afib.

If n-3's slow telomere loss, then it would seem that I might measure as less than 59 years old, but I don't.

Not sure what telomere length-to-age numbers are based on. Is it a national or world-wide average? If telomere length is affected by things like stress, I imagine the numbers would be pretty different for typical residents of different places... like NYC and Honolulu. In any event, I think you should concern yourself more with the delta over a reasonable length of time. Which from what I've read in the astragalus thread would probably be around a year. I think its terrific that you've nailed down baselines for yourself. I've never had one done. I don't know where or how to begin. I assume for a non-medical person like myself, I need to locate a local doctor or lab familiar with the assay kits. A thread devoted to telomere testing would really be great!

Howard

if you've ever seen a plot of the raw data and how weak the correlation is, you wouldn't waste your money on tests--

http://www.wired.com...omere_graph.jpg

Once again, thank you, Turnbuckle. I just quit buying telomere tests.

[niner]

if you've ever seen a plot of the raw data and how weak the correlation is, you wouldn't waste your money on tests--

http://www.wired.com...omere_graph.jpg

If you examined the people on the low end of the graph, and compared them to the people on the high end, I wonder how they would compare? All indications are that "longer is better"...

If you sent the same sample to the lab multiple times, how close would the results be? How much does that variation contribute to the spread in the data?

How do the telomere lengths of blood cells compare to the length of telomeres in other important tissues?

It sounds like the fraction of very short telomeres is more important than the average telomere length. Telomerase inducers may (or may not) have a greater effect on the short fraction than on the average.

[Turnbuckle]

if you've ever seen a plot of the raw data and how weak the correlation is, you wouldn't waste your money on tests--

http://www.wired.com...omere_graph.jpg

If you examined the people on the low end of the graph, and compared them to the people on the high end, I wonder how they would compare? All indications are that "longer is better"...

If you sent the same sample to the lab multiple times, how close would the results be? How much does that variation contribute to the spread in the data?

How do the telomere lengths of blood cells compare to the length of telomeres in other important tissues?

It sounds like the fraction of very short telomeres is more important than the average telomere length. Telomerase inducers may (or may not) have a greater effect on the short fraction than on the average.

If an insurance company were trying to predict their rates based on the scatter diagram of telomere lengths, they would throw up their hands. But you're probably right with the last statement. The shortest telomeres must be the most important in determining life expectancy, as it's the weakest link that determines the strength of a chain. GreenPower found that astragalus affected the shortest telomeres most, so there is hope. We just have to keep in mind that mitochondrial DNA could be the weakest link and it isn't being measured.

[Andey]

if you've ever seen a plot of the raw data and how weak the correlation is, you wouldn't waste your money on tests--

http://www.wired.com...omere_graph.jpg

Yep, looks like not reliable test at all.
Even if we take that different people have different length initially, then different lifestyles must produce more and more difference in biological age with years - so deviation in this plot should grow trough age, and this not happen.

[mikey]

Well, Lifelength claims they are the only company who measures short telomeres, but they're the company that said I was 70 years old.

They're fighting me, with me thinking that since they seemed to have lost my test for two months that they ended up giving me someone else's test. I mean, the other two companies said I was 59.

So, Lifelength appears to be way, way off with their shortest telomere test.

[somecallmetim]

Who knows what these testing labs are even doing? Is fraud involved?

You know how local news stations have their own 'fraud investigations teams,' where, for example, they take a car with no problems to a car repair shop that is suspect of making false claims about needed repairs. And then the mechanic rattles off a bunch of problems that he found? It would be great if they investigated these labs that supposedly test for markers such as telomere length.

One way to catch them in fraud would be to send two samples from the same person taken one right after the other. Mail the samples in at the same time, but with different client names. The results should come back as the same, no?

[Turnbuckle]

Well, Lifelength claims they are the only company who measures short telomeres, but they're the company that said I was 70 years old.

They're fighting me, with me thinking that since they seemed to have lost my test for two months that they ended up giving me someone else's test. I mean, the other two companies said I was 59.

So, Lifelength appears to be way, way off with their shortest telomere test.

Are they giving you the actual results, or just telling you an age?

[mikey]

Well, Lifelength claims they are the only company who measures short telomeres, but they're the company that said I was 70 years old.

They're fighting me, with me thinking that since they seemed to have lost my test for two months that they ended up giving me someone else's test. I mean, the other two companies said I was 59.

So, Lifelength appears to be way, way off with their shortest telomere test.

Are they giving you the actual results, or just telling you an age?

With their Beverly Hills doctor, basically just taking a lot of time telling me I'm 70.

[mikey]

I want to wish a Merry New Year to everyone, but especially those I've learned the most from, Niner, Turnbuckle, Greenpower, Hav, Sciwalk, Anthony and if I missed someone, well, C60oo does help reduce the effects of alcohol, but I've had enough Bushmills to make it fun tonight, so please consider that.

Merry New Year!

[ClarkSims]

I didn't. I had no reason to expect any particular improvement except longevity and resistance to toxins. The hair regrowth was a surprise, and once I got to thinking C60 might be stimulating stem cells, anything seemed possible. Unfortunately, my (very light) telangiectasia rosacea is probably irreversible except by destroying the capillaries themselves. But if anyone knows otherwise, do post it.

I had acne rosacea about 15 years ago. I several small blood vessels on the side of my nose become very visible. They are almost invisible now. I attribute the change to a complete change in lifestyle. At the time I was living a typical suburban lifestyle with too much saturated fat, low quality carbs and not enough exercise. I haven't had rosacea in over 10 years, and the blood vessels are almost invisible now.

[ClarkSims]

I just reread the CCl4 intoxication portion of Baati's paper several times over the last few days.

I think I found an error in the paper where he incorrectly refers to the ratio of oxidized glutathione, and this is a subject of another post. No one has replied to that thread, *sigh*

But at any rate, it looks to me that C60 is a mimic for catalase, superoxide dismutase and glutathione. I think the increase in the rats life span can be explained with the oxidative theory of aging. I also think that the rats probably died because they ran out of C60 and once again became victims to oxidative aging.

In regards to immediate effects, I think it is entirely reasonable that many people see little or no effect. Oxidation is very subtle, and performance enhancement in sports or anything else is often swamped out by random changes in peoples life. For example, I have been drinking beet juice almost daily for 2 years, and I can almost see a change at the gym, but I can't be sure of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22248502

There can be huge changes to my body, which I do not notice. For example, I have lost 8lb of water weight and not noticed it until that night when I measured my resting heart rate.

I take creatine to reduce recovery time and increase strength, and can gain or loose 10 lb very quickly (mostly water I think) and not feel a thing, though the scale shows me a very clear difference.

Having said all that, I think Metheylne Blue is clearly an upregulater for energy. I can see the effects almost immediately in my sleep patterns when I take MB after not taking it for a long time.

I also see a clear difference between me and my friends and family members. Generally speaking I have much more energy than anyone else I know.

I am currently taking about 40 mg of C60 per day, and I don't see any difference when I skip or stop, and then resume. This works out to about .5 mg / KG of body weight, or about 30% of what Baati feed his rats.

Finally, I think it is worth looking at the differences between the oral consumption and the inter perennial injection of the rats. The rats which were injected showed a stronger resistance to CCl4, than the ones who consumed it orally. I think this implies that there is not a U shaped curve in C60 anti oxidant protection.

http://acumensoftwar....com/gratio.png
Refer to the third column in that chart. The white bar is for the rats who received the C60 orally, and the black is for the ones who received by injection.

[niner]

But at any rate, it looks to me that C60 is a mimic for catalase, superoxide dismutase and glutathione. I think the increase in the rats life span can be explained with the oxidative theory of aging. I also think that the rats probably died because they ran out of C60 and once again became victims to oxidative aging.

That's pretty much what I think. I responded to the other thread; I think it's just sloppy nomenclature.

I am currently taking about 40 mg of C60 per day, and I don't see any difference when I skip or stop, and then resume. This works out to about .5 mg / KG of body weight, or about 30% of what Baati feed his rats.

This is a really huge dose. You aren't seeing a difference when you skip or stop because your membranes are saturated, and it will take a LONG time to get back to baseline. If the conventional interspecies scaling rules apply, and in this case I think they do, then an "equivalent" dose would be 1/6 of what Baati's rats got. So you would be at 2X the rat dose, if you were following their dosing schedule. They were only dosed daily for a week, then weekly for two months, then every other week for about 4 more months. How long have you been doing daily dosing? I'm currently using ~15mg, once a month.

Finally, I think it is worth looking at the differences between the oral consumption and the inter perennial injection of the rats. The rats which were injected showed a stronger resistance to CCl4, than the ones who consumed it orally. I think this implies that there is not a U shaped curve in C60 anti oxidant protection.

http://acumensoftwar....com/gratio.png
Refer to the third column in that chart. The white bar is for the rats who received the C60 orally, and the black is for the ones who received by injection.

I'm not sure what you mean by there not being a U shaped curve. I think what it's saying is that if you're going to face a really bad oxidative assault like a dose of CCl4, then you want a lot of c60 on board, and the i.p. dose was delivering more than the oral dose was.

[motorcitykid]

Niner, as per your once monthly dosing schedule, are you taking the 15mg in divided doses throughout the day or all in one shot?

I just ordered a 100ml bottle from Tom (you posted this link on another thread,can't remember which). http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html

I've been corresponding with Tom via email. He seems straightforward and transparent. He addressed my concerns regarding the quality of his olive oil, mixing/centrifuging procedure ,and the sanitary conditions of his processing facility. Thanks for the link!

Looking forward to dressing my next salad with fullerenes.

Niner, as per your once monthly dosing schedule, are you taking the 15mg in divided doses throughout the day or all in one shot?

I just ordered a 100ml bottle from Tom (you posted this link on another thread,can't remember which). http://www.carbon60o...m/products.html

I've been corresponding with Tom via email. He seems straightforward and transparent. He addressed my concerns regarding the quality of his olive oil, mixing/centrifuging procedure ,and the sanitary conditions of his processing facility. Thanks for the link!

Looking forward to dressing my next salad with fullerenes.

[Turnbuckle]

I didn't. I had no reason to expect any particular improvement except longevity and resistance to toxins. The hair regrowth was a surprise, and once I got to thinking C60 might be stimulating stem cells, anything seemed possible. Unfortunately, my (very light) telangiectasia rosacea is probably irreversible except by destroying the capillaries themselves. But if anyone knows otherwise, do post it.

I had acne rosacea about 15 years ago. I several small blood vessels on the side of my nose become very visible. They are almost invisible now. I attribute the change to a complete change in lifestyle. At the time I was living a typical suburban lifestyle with too much saturated fat, low quality carbs and not enough exercise. I haven't had rosacea in over 10 years, and the blood vessels are almost invisible now.

Thank you. Mine are almost invisible too. But I'd still like to get rid of them.

[Turnbuckle]

I think the increase in the rats life span can be explained with the oxidative theory of aging. I also think that the rats probably died because they ran out of C60 and once again became victims to oxidative aging.

It's difficult to understand how taking an anti-oxidant for six months would extend your lifespan by 30 months. It might explain six months or less, but not 30. Now if you propose certain superpowers for C60--that some of it sticks around forever with almost homeopathic effectiveness, then you'd also expect one dose to be sufficient for years. Beyond that, you also have to explain how an anti-oxidant can grow hair and make scars disappear, which isn't among the known effects of anti-oxidants.

[niner]

Niner, as per your once monthly dosing schedule, are you taking the 15mg in divided doses throughout the day or all in one shot?

I don't see any need to spread it out, and there might even be a problem with spreading it out too much. I have a somewhat hazy recollection that the body responds to a higher fat meal by mobilizing bile, and I have a concern that too small of a dose might "slip through" without being absorbed as well. I think it's a good idea to take it with some other fats, like with your highest fat meal of the day. This would also be an argument for taking the full monthly amount in one dose. In the past I spread it out over a week, this month, as it happened, was in two doses on successive days.

[ClarkSims]

I'm not sure what you mean by there not being a U shaped curve. I think what it's saying is that if you're going to face a really bad oxidative assault like a dose of CCl4, then you want a lot of c60 on board, and the i.p. dose was delivering more than the oral dose was.

The injection is much more efficient at getting the C60 into the rats, which is why there are so many more C60 crystals in the liver and spleen for the mice who were injected, as compared to the mice who received the oral C60. Therefore the larger does more effectively dealt with the CCl4 oxidative stress, ie. there is no point at which further C60 causes more oxidative stress.

Put another way, I am saying the utility of taking C60 is a monotonically increasing function, as opposed to a function with a maximum.

[ClarkSims]

I am currently taking about 40 mg of C60 per day, and I don't see any difference when I skip or stop, and then resume. This works out to about .5 mg / KG of body weight, or about 30% of what Baati feed his rats.

This is a really huge dose. You aren't seeing a difference when you skip or stop because your membranes are saturated, and it will take a LONG time to get back to baseline. If the conventional interspecies scaling rules apply, and in this case I think they do, then an "equivalent" dose would be 1/6 of what Baati's rats got. So you would be at 2X the rat dose, if you were following their dosing schedule. They were only dosed daily for a week, then weekly for two months, then every other week for about 4 more months. How long have you been doing daily dosing? I'm currently using ~15mg, once a month.

It is hard to decide how to scale from a rat to a human. Where do you get the 1/6 number?
I have seen .75 used as the allometric scaling coefficient, which means 30 mg is right in the ball park humans

http://c60antiaging....-vs-rat-dosing/

I just did another calculation. Suppose free radical production is proportional to the number of calories burned. And rate of free radical destruction, is proportional to the total amount of C60.

A rat consumes about 60 calories per day
http://ratfanclub.org/nutreq.html

A Wistar rat typically weighs about 250 g.

The original experiment used 1.7 mg / kg of body weight or .425 mg / rat or .00708333

I burn about 2900 calories per day
http://www.self.com/...Level=3&submit=

The calorie proportional does would then be 2900 * .0070833 = 20.5 mg per day.

Does this seem like a reasonable way to calculate dose?

I guess a huge missing variable, is how quickly does the human body filter out the C60 from the blood.
One should adjust the previous calculation for the relative speed at which the humans and rats remove the C60 from the blood.

And in answer to how long I have been doing this, I have been taking this does since about October.

[ClarkSims]

It's difficult to understand how taking an anti-oxidant for six months would extend your lifespan by 30 months. It might explain six months or less, but not 30. Now if you propose certain superpowers for C60--that some of it sticks around forever with almost homeopathic effectiveness, then you'd also expect one dose to be sufficient for years. Beyond that, you also have to explain how an anti-oxidant can grow hair and make scars disappear, which isn't among the known effects of anti-oxidants.

C60 is fat soluble. Fat soluble chemicals can stay in the system for a very long time, even years or decades.