383 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

If by any chance someone of you is taking Vinpocetine, stop immediately. That shit acts like antipsychotic and is probably partially responsible for my protracted anhedonia. I had over two week break from my pre-workout supplement that contains Vinpocetine and was noticing significant gradual improvement to a point of being hypomanic when consuming caffeine. Earlier in the day I was feeling great and more alive than in a very long time. Later I took one scoop of the supp before my gym session and now several hours later I'm feeling totally numb and disconnected again. It can't be due to caffeine comedown because this is very different it's like something pulling brakes in my brain. Good thing is that it may upregulate those dopamine receptors.. But I'm not touching that shit again its awful feeling like this.

[Dissolvedissolve]

Hm, if you've had the chance to try modafinil, do you find armodafinil is better in any way in terms of efficacity? Or side-effects?

Unfortunately, I never tried modafinil. The source that I bought from barely charges more for armodafinil, so I figured I might as well go with it. I will say that it's incredibly "clean" feeling. There's a little bit of increased anxiety during the first hour or so, and to a lesser extent throughout the day. For the first 1-2 hours it can feel, to some extent, too strong, but I am wide awake for a solid 12 hours. And, after taking a dose at 9 am, I still need melatonin to fall asleep at 12-1 AM, and I normally have no issue whatsoever falling asleep.

Also, it's interesting that you experience anticholinergic effects at 300 but not 150 mg. I believe that bupropion is prescribed at around 100 mg for smoking cessation, and yet the anticholinergic effect is stronger at a higher dose. In any case, the side-effect burden would suggest more is not better. A similar story as SSRIs, I suppose, where lower doses are often effective without causing the mood-dulling of higher doses.

I believe the hypomania was not 5HT mediated - in any case, I never got it with Escitalopram or Cymbalta. I suspect it could have been a dopaminergic thing but it's hard to know.

The thing is that fluoxetine is a 5-HT2c antagonist. This mechanism does not apply to either of the others. And the effect is to increase certain dopaminergic pathways. Of course, mania seems to be a dopaminergic phenomenon. So you have 5-HT2c antagonism --> Increased activity of certain DA pathways --> hypomania.

Edited by Dissolvedissolve, 04 January 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[nupi]

Interesting. So more more DA it is. Coincidentally, I also did not have this with Wellbutrin which is probably a weaker DA agonist than GSK would like us to believe.

[Dissolvedissolve]

Interesting. So more more DA it is. Coincidentally, I also did not have this with Wellbutrin which is probably a weaker DA agonist than GSK would like us to believe.

That's not suprising. Bupropion/Wellbutrin isn't a DA agonist, and its DAT and NET inhibition is really quite weak and clinically insignificant - it doesn't exceed ~25%, where ~50% is necessary. (SSRIs vary, but generally have 50-80% inhibition of SERT.) It's mostly just a NE releaser, which doesn't help with dopaminergic issues. (Although some studies suggest it can be beneficial for anhedonia, for reasons that I don't totally understand.)

[nupi]

It probably does not help directly like dopaminergics would but NE definitely provides an energy rush so for people with motivation related anticipatory issues, that might help to make them go out and enjoyable stuff. It's also known to have positive sexual effects which again could treat some aspects of anhedonia - for this reason, it is often used as an adjunct to SSRIs, even.

I still have some GSK Buproprion in my drawer - if I was not scared by the anxiogenic / OCD promoting nature of it, I would try it (frankly, it is by far a better option to stack Fluoxetine with Wellbutrin than to deal with SNRI side effects if you believe that NE could help you).

Edited by nupi, 05 January 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Galaxyshock]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

I think it associates with quite pure form of anticipatory anhedonia. But since it was induced by substance abuse in my case and I've been slowly but surely getting better I'm not too worried that this is some irreparable damage.

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile. Jiaogulan's effect also looks to be quite therapeutic since it seems to leave me better even when the initial effects wear off. It has been found to have neuroprotective effect on dopamine receptors, in fact potentially preventing Parkinson's disease: http://www.mdpi.com/...-3049/15/4/2814 . This could be a great addition to whatever regimen you're building to fight anhedonia and could help with the search for long-term remission. The feeling is not really a direct stimulation but a sense of "reconnection" and I notice that all stimulants are enhanced very profoundly. A nice push to the right direction.

[magniloquentc0unt]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

I think it associates with quite pure form of anticipatory anhedonia. But since it was induced by substance abuse in my case and I've been slowly but surely getting better I'm not too worried that this is some irreparable damage.

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile. Jiaogulan's effect also looks to be quite therapeutic since it seems to leave me better even when the initial effects wear off. It has been found to have neuroprotective effect on dopamine receptors, in fact potentially preventing Parkinson's disease: http://www.mdpi.com/...-3049/15/4/2814 . This could be a great addition to whatever regimen you're building to fight anhedonia and could help with the search for long-term remission. The feeling is not really a direct stimulation but a sense of "reconnection" and I notice that all stimulants are enhanced very profoundly. A nice push to the right direction.

its not too surprising it has been removed from DSM..: those two (TWO!) symptoms are generic as fuck!
i would not start diagnosing myself with "schizofrenia" or other scary names that might justify your state to yourself, just take it as a cluster of assorted/different symptoms.
most of the people here could be diagnosed 2-3 different disorders, so how would you interpret that, as having many sicknesses or just a big one, lacking some simptoms of one and having extra others?
DSM is nothing but a list of the most common disorders, with the most common symptoms: 2 different persons could both be diagnosed the same disorder while just sharing 1 symptoms, and each one of the two having 4 different ones.

anyhow, the interesting and less philosophical part of my post:
funnily enough ive been drinking jiaogulan tea over the past two weeks, 1-3 cups a day.
a friend of mine imports the dried leaves from thailand as a business, so from time to time i would also swallow the leaves aswell knowing its 100% bio.
jiaogulan is marketed as "three times stronger than ginseng". personally i dont know if this is true, because i was using ginseng and it had lost its magic due to prolonged period, so i dont really notice increased energy from jiaogulan. What i can say i notice is, as you say, the feelings feel more "justified". for example i was talking to someone i dont know that well, and he did some funny facial mimic. I laughed and i really felt the laughter was justified, that it made sense as a reaction, and i felt weird about it! (probably the weird was more meant as a "wow, really? am i reacting like this?").
Ill keep drinking this tea and ill probably eat the whole leaves aswell, just to increase the effectiveness.
I noticed that i need pretty much the doubled dose of some herbs for them to make effect ( i believe its partly because of this: http://en.wikipedia...._arousal_theory ) , for example bacopa: i was dissing it as uneffective on these very forums, and then i tried to finish off the caps by doubling the dose and it had a very interesting effect of remembering funny episodes from the past that i tought were long forgotten, and jumping more quickly from one tought to the other.

One question: i will be getting a prescription for ritalin, and was wondering what adaptogens can be easily combined with that. I would love to add rhodiola to that, but its a MAOI, and i dont know if all the myths around the mixing of MAOI and --RI are founded or not.

[nupi]

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile.

Can you recommend a product/brand for that? Any idea how it works?

[Galaxyshock]

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile.

Can you recommend a product/brand for that? Any idea how it works?

I've used Paradise Herbs Jiaogulan extract (Gynostemma pentaphyllum extract 12:1). Like all adaptogens it has a broad range of therapeutic effects but I think the most important for anhedonia is the modulation of Glutamate-Phenylethylamine/Dopamine/Serotonin-Opioid pathway. An adaptogen is actually a "stress agonist" and the positive response is how the body learns to deal with this induced stimulation. So in a sense they have exercise-mimicing action but it's not just physical. Ginseng for example has been found to bind to same receptors and in a similar manner as neuroleptics (!) but of course it's not such of a dirty compound but more of a "teacher". The gypenosides in Jiaogulan have similar kind of structure as ginsenosides. I would say Jiaogulan also has some more dopamine-targeting effects at glutamate similar to Bacopa because it is prosocial but in a different manner and there is definitely some NMDA-modulation that reminds me of magnesium and zinc. I would guess at some point it will also lose it's magic as my body adapts but I hope by then my "baseline" is more close to what I would like it to be and of course I have other adaptogens in stock to cycle.

Again my anecdotes are affected by my fluctuating protracted withdrawal from abuse of GABAergic substances and this consists of different waves of symptoms. So my "baseline" tends to lurch but with Jiaogulan I have felt the effect "I'm looking for" come on better than any compound in a long time so this is why I thought it may definitely have some potential at least as an "add-on". It doesn't have that "forcedness" of Cordyceps, "distinct stimulation" of Rhodiola, "mellowing" of Gotu Kola, "drive stimulation" of Eleuthero or "hyper-serotonergic" of Bacopa but a unique reconnecting sense of getting back "in touch". That's how I would describe it but I can't really know how you respond to it.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 09 January 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

I think it associates with quite pure form of anticipatory anhedonia. But since it was induced by substance abuse in my case and I've been slowly but surely getting better I'm not too worried that this is some irreparable damage.

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile. Jiaogulan's effect also looks to be quite therapeutic since it seems to leave me better even when the initial effects wear off. It has been found to have neuroprotective effect on dopamine receptors, in fact potentially preventing Parkinson's disease: http://www.mdpi.com/...-3049/15/4/2814 . This could be a great addition to whatever regimen you're building to fight anhedonia and could help with the search for long-term remission. The feeling is not really a direct stimulation but a sense of "reconnection" and I notice that all stimulants are enhanced very profoundly. A nice push to the right direction.

its not too surprising it has been removed from DSM..: those two (TWO!) symptoms are generic as fuck!
i would not start diagnosing myself with "schizofrenia" or other scary names that might justify your state to yourself, just take it as a cluster of assorted/different symptoms.
most of the people here could be diagnosed 2-3 different disorders, so how would you interpret that, as having many sicknesses or just a big one, lacking some simptoms of one and having extra others?
DSM is nothing but a list of the most common disorders, with the most common symptoms: 2 different persons could both be diagnosed the same disorder while just sharing 1 symptoms, and each one of the two having 4 different ones.

anyhow, the interesting and less philosophical part of my post:
funnily enough ive been drinking jiaogulan tea over the past two weeks, 1-3 cups a day.
a friend of mine imports the dried leaves from thailand as a business, so from time to time i would also swallow the leaves aswell knowing its 100% bio.
jiaogulan is marketed as "three times stronger than ginseng". personally i dont know if this is true, because i was using ginseng and it had lost its magic due to prolonged period, so i dont really notice increased energy from jiaogulan. What i can say i notice is, as you say, the feelings feel more "justified". for example i was talking to someone i dont know that well, and he did some funny facial mimic. I laughed and i really felt the laughter was justified, that it made sense as a reaction, and i felt weird about it! (probably the weird was more meant as a "wow, really? am i reacting like this?").
Ill keep drinking this tea and ill probably eat the whole leaves aswell, just to increase the effectiveness.
I noticed that i need pretty much the doubled dose of some herbs for them to make effect ( i believe its partly because of this: http://en.wikipedia...._arousal_theory ) , for example bacopa: i was dissing it as uneffective on these very forums, and then i tried to finish off the caps by doubling the dose and it had a very interesting effect of remembering funny episodes from the past that i tought were long forgotten, and jumping more quickly from one tought to the other.

One question: i will be getting a prescription for ritalin, and was wondering what adaptogens can be easily combined with that. I would love to add rhodiola to that, but its a MAOI, and i dont know if all the myths around the mixing of MAOI and --RI are founded or not.

Yeah I don't want to diagnose myself with anything either but my withdrawal from GABA-agonists has caused waves of quite bizarre symptoms and some persistant issues that are similar to those of several different "disorders" so that's why I happened to pick it up. But again since this was all induced by substance abuse I know they will pass with time and at this point I should probably only do some cautious attempts to push me towards feeling better and adaptogens are good for this along with good diet and exercise.

Ritalin seems to be dopaminergic-adrenergic so the COMT+MAO -inhibiton of Rhodiola may not be a good addition altough Rhodiola somehow avoids all the bads of classic MAOIs and I've even read people combining it with SSRIs without problems. Perhaps combining it with a very low dose of the stimulant could work in a clean manner. The beta-endorphin-activation from Rhodiola shoud help with anhedonia but probably more in the consummatory-phase. The Jiaogulan should be good with Ritalin and if anxiety becomes an issue I would try some Gotu Kola there too it's also neuroprotective and it seems to prevent impulsiveness and abuse. If you want to "modulate" the effects of the stimulant to more nootropic fashion, look into CILTEP-supplements discussed in another thread.

[RJ100]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

That's a frighteningly accurate description of me.

[Galaxyshock]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

That's a frighteningly accurate description of me.

I think in its pure "ideal" form it is somewhat of a catatonic state so that you wouldn't be even questioning it. I'm guessing a state resembling it could be triggered by very negative feedback from attempts of socializing and perhaps involvement of substance abuse. I've had socially withdrawing tendencies and introversion during my life so it's quite logical to draw towards something like that. But I'm sure it's not something impossible to break away from and to learn to deal with the tendencies with better manners. Self-diagnosis and victim mentality don't really address the problem. Did your symptoms start within childhood like it's seen to often begin?

Edited by Galaxyshock, 09 January 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[nupi]

Sounds rather like depression or perhaps dysthmia to me - people are depressed and exhibit many of the symptoms thereof but do not necessarily even notice it. How this is related to schizophrenia in its usual sense is beyond me.

[RJ100]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

That's a frighteningly accurate description of me.

I think in its pure "ideal" form it is somewhat of a catatonic state so that you wouldn't be even questioning it. I'm guessing a state resembling it could be triggered by very negative feedback from attempts of socializing and perhaps involvement of substance abuse. I've had socially withdrawing tendencies and introversion during my life so it's quite logical to draw towards something like that. But I'm sure it's not something impossible to break away from and to learn to deal with the tendencies with better manners. Self-diagnosis and victim mentality don't really address the problem. Did your symptoms start within childhood like it's seen to often begin?

Yes, since I was young, but it's gotten markedly worse over the last few years. My avolition has never been worse, loss of interest in many of the things I used to enjoy, and I only socialize when necessary.

I understand the perils of self-diagnosing - I just think it's both frightening and enlightening that all but one of the symptoms listed under the "Classification" heading describe me exactly.

I may try some of the gynostemma tea. My body is very reactionary to supplements, so the extract is likely too strong. i need something for motivation/drive too, but one thing at a time.

[RJ100]

Sounds rather like depression or perhaps dysthmia to me - people are depressed and exhibit many of the symptoms thereof but do not necessarily even notice it. How this is related to schizophrenia in its usual sense is beyond me.

But I'm not depressed.

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe it's related to schizophrenia based on the cause.

[nupi]

People with atypical depression may not notice they are. What makes you believe it relates to schizophrenia?

[RJ100]

People with atypical depression may not notice they are. What makes you believe it relates to schizophrenia?

I've spoken to a professional at length, which is something I'd rather not delve into here, but I'm not depressed. I'm also not schizophrenic. I simply found it interesting that all my symptoms so strongly fit a single description, which has not previously been the case.

[NeuroNootropic]

My condition has been quite resembling this:

http://en.wikipedia....e_schizophrenia

I think it associates with quite pure form of anticipatory anhedonia. But since it was induced by substance abuse in my case and I've been slowly but surely getting better I'm not too worried that this is some irreparable damage.

I've found the adaptogenic herb Jiaogulan helps a lot with the disconnection to feelings and it even provides somewhat of an empathogenic state and sense of wellbeing. It's quite unique and so far beats every other adaptogen for anhedonia issues by a mile. Jiaogulan's effect also looks to be quite therapeutic since it seems to leave me better even when the initial effects wear off. It has been found to have neuroprotective effect on dopamine receptors, in fact potentially preventing Parkinson's disease: http://www.mdpi.com/...-3049/15/4/2814 . This could be a great addition to whatever regimen you're building to fight anhedonia and could help with the search for long-term remission. The feeling is not really a direct stimulation but a sense of "reconnection" and I notice that all stimulants are enhanced very profoundly. A nice push to the right direction.

its not too surprising it has been removed from DSM..: those two (TWO!) symptoms are generic as fuck!
i would not start diagnosing myself with "schizofrenia" or other scary names that might justify your state to yourself, just take it as a cluster of assorted/different symptoms.
most of the people here could be diagnosed 2-3 different disorders, so how would you interpret that, as having many sicknesses or just a big one, lacking some simptoms of one and having extra others?
DSM is nothing but a list of the most common disorders, with the most common symptoms: 2 different persons could both be diagnosed the same disorder while just sharing 1 symptoms, and each one of the two having 4 different ones.

anyhow, the interesting and less philosophical part of my post:
funnily enough ive been drinking jiaogulan tea over the past two weeks, 1-3 cups a day.
a friend of mine imports the dried leaves from thailand as a business, so from time to time i would also swallow the leaves aswell knowing its 100% bio.
jiaogulan is marketed as "three times stronger than ginseng". personally i dont know if this is true, because i was using ginseng and it had lost its magic due to prolonged period, so i dont really notice increased energy from jiaogulan. What i can say i notice is, as you say, the feelings feel more "justified". for example i was talking to someone i dont know that well, and he did some funny facial mimic. I laughed and i really felt the laughter was justified, that it made sense as a reaction, and i felt weird about it! (probably the weird was more meant as a "wow, really? am i reacting like this?").
Ill keep drinking this tea and ill probably eat the whole leaves aswell, just to increase the effectiveness.
I noticed that i need pretty much the doubled dose of some herbs for them to make effect ( i believe its partly because of this: http://en.wikipedia...._arousal_theory ) , for example bacopa: i was dissing it as uneffective on these very forums, and then i tried to finish off the caps by doubling the dose and it had a very interesting effect of remembering funny episodes from the past that i tought were long forgotten, and jumping more quickly from one tought to the other.

One question: i will be getting a prescription for ritalin, and was wondering what adaptogens can be easily combined with that. I would love to add rhodiola to that, but its a MAOI, and i dont know if all the myths around the mixing of MAOI and --RI are founded or not.

Yeah I don't want to diagnose myself with anything either but my withdrawal from GABA-agonists has caused waves of quite bizarre symptoms and some persistant issues that are similar to those of several different "disorders" so that's why I happened to pick it up. But again since this was all induced by substance abuse I know they will pass with time and at this point I should probably only do some cautious attempts to push me towards feeling better and adaptogens are good for this along with good diet and exercise.

Ritalin seems to be dopaminergic-adrenergic so the COMT+MAO -inhibiton of Rhodiola may not be a good addition altough Rhodiola somehow avoids all the bads of classic MAOIs and I've even read people combining it with SSRIs without problems. Perhaps combining it with a very low dose of the stimulant could work in a clean manner. The beta-endorphin-activation from Rhodiola shoud help with anhedonia but probably more in the consummatory-phase. The Jiaogulan should be good with Ritalin and if anxiety becomes an issue I would try some Gotu Kola there too it's also neuroprotective and it seems to prevent impulsiveness and abuse. If you want to "modulate" the effects of the stimulant to more nootropic fashion, look into CILTEP-supplements discussed in another thread.

Yeah, you just described my experience with Rhodiola. It did absolutely nothing for anticipatory anhedionia, but when I tried listening to music I actually felt pleasure for once in my life. It felt good listening to it. Is this why I see so many people listening to music every day?

I also got a prescription for Ritalin as Rhodiola did not improve my motivation much, but I was only taking 500 mg once a day. Do you think I should wait a week after stopping the Rhodiola to start taking the Ritalin or would that not be necessary? I don't feel the effects of Rhodiola in the morning until after I take a capsule.

[Galaxyshock]

Well music can also stimulate the mind along with the pleasurable feeling. I find myself getting more active to do things at home when I keep the radio on. I think a lot of people listen to music to sort of distant themselves from the boring humdrum reality but it has many uses. With anticipatory anhedonia I guess we're missing some excitement-building and emotional stimulation of the music. We can appreciate the well-built melodies etc. and get this pleasurable gloom, but not enjoy the full spectrum of it. It's quite interesting to think about these.. I find that with movies I'm also not receiving all of it.

Rhodiola is reversible in its stimulatory effects so there shouldn't be a need for break.

[NeuroNootropic]

So Biphentin (extended-release methylphenidate) 30 mg didn't work for me. No change in either anticipatory nor consummatory anhedonia. It just felt like I drank a 2nd cup of Coffee.

I don't want to up the dosage either because tolerance builds quickly and it's easy to get dependent on it. I'm also not well informed of receptor recovery in the case of MPH tolerance. I know that a week after stopping caffeine usage the adenosine receptors return to baseline and tolerance dissipates, but I don't know if dopamine or norepinephrine receptors do the same.

Here's my experience with it: http://www.longecity...post__p__559145

I'm going to try Rhodiola 1000 mg instead of 500 and see if it helps with anticipatory anhedonia as well as consummatory. I'm also hoping 1000 mg will enhance consummatory anhedonia beyond what 500 mg did.

Edited by NeuroNootropic, 16 January 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[kevinseven11]

Have you thought of being deficient in estrogen? Estrogen receptors are known to help emotions.

[NeuroNootropic]

On the contrary, I've always thought I had too much estrogen, particularly because of the pear-body shape and the somewhat puffy nipples, although I have no gyno (thank goodness).

[Dissolvedissolve]

In the stimulants category, dexmethylphenidate would likely yield similar effects with less side effects, but if you found the therapeutic effects of methylphenidate to be inadequate, it wouldn't help in that regard.

There's also a possibility that dextroamphetamine could be more useful. There's a greater risk of neurotoxicity, but it can be minimized by keeping the dose low (5 mg), and it could be interesting from an academic point of view in terms of eludiating the neurobiological mechanisms of anhedonia. Specifically, since d-amp (or mixed amp, aka adderall) is a catecholamine releaser, it has pro-glutamatergic activity. I posted some studies on this topic a number of pages back (page 2 I think).

I've pretty much concluded my Rhodiola trial after around three weeks, and I think maybe it has a mild affect. It may slightly improve energy and concentration. But if it does, it's quite subtle. I'll have to keep testing it.

[nupi]

That sounds about right on Rhodiola. What dose are you using?

[Dissolvedissolve]

I'm using 500 mg of NOW's rhodiola. It's 3% rosavins and 1% salidrosides.

I must say I quite like caffeine. A nice double espresso or 12 oz. of quality coffee makes me feel excellent - energetic, motivated, focused, and generally pleasant - for a good 4-6 hours. I don't drink coffee more than 2-3 times per week though, and not more than one cup in a day. For those of you who haven't tried caffeine, it's worth a shot. For those of you who are dependent on it, you might try drinking it no more than every other day so that it actually has an effect.

[magniloquentc0unt]

Interesting that you talk about coffee, i recently realized that coffe misteriously has no cognitive effect on me (best case scenario i get te jitters after the tenth cup) and alcohol does not generate any euphoria, just more tolerance to social interaction.

[nupi]

The first was true for me pre-Prozac. Now it definitely increase alertness (for a while) and improves mood...

[medievil]

I know GABA-B agonism triggers DA release. I am not sure if that is the case for GABA-A - I do not believe so but am not entirely certain. That's the reason why phenibut, a GABA-B agonist, may be able to temporarily abolish anhedonia via indirect release of dopamine. Phenibut is obviously very habit-forming and I'm not recommending, just saying that there's little utility for GABA-A agonism in treating anhedonia. Anecdotally, I've certainly never heard of benzos (GABA-A positve allosteric modifiers, so essentially agonists) being helpful for anticipatory anhedonia, and I anecdotally don't find alcohol to be helpful (another GABA-A PAM).

5-HT2c antagonism could, perhaps, be beneficial, but that study is unfortunately unclear.

Hmm ive been using phenibut for pretty much a year with stims, now i temporary stopped since im in belguim my benzo stim mix takes care of consumptionary anhedonia but i seem to suffer from anticipatory anhedonia, atleast im not sure, just a impression i got. Ive allways responded extremely well to gabab agonists.

Again i dont consider its withdrawal an issue, just a visit to a doc for some diazepam and you dont notice it and just stop after a week.

[Galaxyshock]

Phenibut is nasty compound and the withdrawal caused my anhedonia issues. It's a really tricky delayed withdrawal you get from it I mean the acute phase was few days of stong anxiety nothing unbearable and that could be treated. Already the next weekend I would go out without much issues, not feeling perfect but alright, but the following weeks I started to develope those waves of anxiety and hyperreactivity and then consummatory anhedonia. After 4 months the consummatory anhedonia gradually abolished turning to anticipatory anhedonia that seems to be now after 9 months from the withdrawal balancing out. I took phenibut half a year at maximum 3 grams a day, usually 1-2 grams, I would take a lot of breaks for up to a week and taper down the dosage, also using Ashwagandha which minimized the withdrawals. I've read similar delayed anhedonia issues from GBL withdrawal etc. These things are awful I'd say even stimulants are less harmful or unpredictable.

[medievil]

Ive allways had the impression that if you just withdrawal you put your body in some permanent withdrawal like state, yuck when i run out i allways avoud staying off it, when i want to withdrawal just a few days diazepam or baclofen, the day you stop you feel completely normal, nothing like if it was the same day after you stopped taking it, then you seem stuck in some long lasting bullshit. Used it for ages never had issues.

I do think GBL made me anhedonia worse but im not sure, it could also be missing the high back in the day wich made not having it in the evening worse.