383 replies to this topic

[Galaxyshock]

I think I still have some of http://www.iherb.com...a-90-Vcaps/8673 at home, would that be diluted enough?

At 2 caps that would be about the same as my combination, so it should be alright.

[nupi]

Worth a try, I guess

[magniloquentc0unt]

I myself had zero success with NOW foods mucuna... but again, hard to read anything meaningful into that seen that ritalin didnt work and modafinil gives me a strange feeling, but nothing tangible.
Now, relevant to the main topic of "anticipatory anhedonia", i can say the following: im now on 5th week of tianeptine, and it happens from time to time for me to think of something and be SLIGHTLY intrigued at the evenience of doing that thing:
lets say i see something and it reminds me i could watch a certain documentary, and i think "it could be nice". I would say this is a step forward, but its very shallow and not so intense. Lets hope it strenghtens with time. This, in my opinion, is very relevant to the topic of discussion, but again, only an anectode... On the other hand, i think my social anxiety has been getting worse. But idk, who cares, i think its like coming out of a cocoon of numbness, anything is welcome!

[NeuroNootropic]

Have any of you tried Iron for anhedonia? Low iron levels can cause ADHD symptoms and restless leg syndrome, both of which are related to hypodopaminergic transmission. I had my ferritin levels checked and they were at 36 ug/L on a reference range of 22 - 322. It's within the range and that's all doctors care about.

I started supplementing with Iron Bisglycinate 18 mg two weeks ago and I've noticed some improvements in anhedonia and other areas of my life. 18 mg of Iron provides 100% of the daily iron requirement and I know that doctors prescribe high doses for iron deficiency anemia, of which patients usually take for months at a time because Iron is so poorly absorbed. So based on this, I don't think I'll run into iron overload. I should also note that I take the iron with my multivitaimn as Vitamin C improves absorption. Anyone more knowledgeable than me on this subject please advise me on the possibility of Iron overload from my current regime.

In regards to the benefits Iron has given me, they are somewhat subtle, but still noticeable:

• Slightly improved consummatory and anticipatory anhedonia
• Slightly improved libido
• Laughter is actually enjoyable now whereas before it was just a way for me to blow air through my nose
• Improved verbal fluency. What I mean by this is that I am better able to articulate myself and get my message across. I also am able to better form sentences as well as utilize terms that accurately describe what I am conjuring in my head.
• Less shortness of breath and improved recovery when doing HIIT exercise

The verbal fluency benefit is actually a rather interesting one. I had no idea that Iron status could affect verbal fluency. I actually found a couple of studies on this matter:

Levels' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6691286']Levels of serum ferritin and iron were examined in relation to cognitive performance and quantitative EEG measures in 69 normal university students. Higher levels of serum ferritin were associated with greater activation of the left hemisphere relative to the right, indicated by less power in the EEG spectra from left hemisphere electrodes. Iron status was significantly related to cognitive performance on two of the cognitive tasks, and these relationships were consistent with the EEG asymmetries: higher ferritin predicted greater verbal fluency but poorer nonverbal auditory task performance. These results suggest that body iron stores are relevant to specific neurophysiological processes supporting attention.

→ source (external link)

Full article: http://naldc.nal.usd...nload/46687/PDF

[Galaxyshock]

Could be that the brain mineral balance plays a part here. I used to supplement a lot of zinc couple years ago because it helped with a ton of my issues, but eventually made me feel sick and lethargic. A green superfood supplement with some added minerals and vitamins I used couple months ago did make me feel a little better and energetic. Manganese is probably strongest dopamine-boosting mineral, it even made a bit manic initially when I tried it last year but that response subsided. Isn't Maca a great source for minerals? Could explain why it helped you and also I find it beneficial at 2 tablespoons a day. Some kind of mineral analysis would be useful. Since excess zinc drains copper, iron and manganese it could be that some deficiency or sub-optimal levels may be there. Blindly supplementing one mineral probably isn't smart as I'm unaware of my balance but some superfood supp I'm probably gonna buy again soon.

Anyway, st. John's keeps working well, it gives my emotions back, makes enjoying life possible, improves sociability and generally provides happiness. Still, I don't think my brain is fully functional and doesn't create proper responses to stress etc. I've had wierd anxiety and some other issues lately but most likely because I keep messing with alcohol and some phenibut. Those just can momentary make me forget that I ever even had anhedonia and associated stuff.. but indeed I'm gonna have to cut them out as the rebounds are bad for my progress. Added some Schinandra again and got that nice healthy clarity feeling, good stuff. I'm taking a break from Mucuna I went a bit overboard with it and started getting annoying sides. But it does work fine for me to boost dopamine.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 23 May 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[NeuroNootropic]

Interesting note about the Manganese there. What dose and brand were you taking?

My Life Extension two-per-day multivitamin provides 2 mg per 2 capsules, but I only take 1 capsule a day. Is 1 mg a day enough? This study done on rats found that low dose Manganese actually reduced tyrosine hyroxylase activity:

Manganese' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21310168']Manganese (Mn) exposure causes manganism, a neurological disorder similar to Parkinson's disease. However, the cellular mechanism by which Mn impairs the dopaminergic neurotransmitter system remains unclear. We previously demonstrated that caspase-3-dependent proteolytic activation of protein kinase C delta (PKCδ) plays a key role in Mn-induced apoptotic cell death in dopaminergic neurons. Recently, we showed that PKCδ negatively regulates tyrosine hydroxylase (TH), the rate-limiting enzyme in dopamine synthesis, by enhancing protein phosphatase-2A activity in dopaminergic neurons. Here, we report that Mn exposure can affect the enzymatic activity of TH, the rate-limiting enzyme in dopamine synthesis, by activating PKCδ-PP2A signaling pathway in a dopaminergic cell model. Low dose Mn (3-10μM) exposure to differentiated mesencephalic dopaminergic neuronal cells for 3h induced a significant increase in TH activity and phosphorylation of TH-Ser40. The PKCδ specific inhibitor rottlerin did not prevent Mn-induced TH activity or TH-Ser40 phosphorylation. On the contrary, chronic exposure to 0.1-1 μM Mn for 24h induced a dose-dependent decrease in TH activity. Interestingly, chronic Mn treatment significantly increased PKCδ kinase activity and protein phosphatase 2A (PP2A) enzyme activity. Treatment with the PKCδ inhibitor rottlerin almost completely prevented chronic Mn-induced reduction in TH activity, as well as increased PP2A activity. Neither acute nor chronic Mn exposures induced any cytotoxic cell death or altered TH protein levels. Collectively, these results demonstrate that low dose Mn exposure impairs TH activity in dopaminergic cells through activation of PKCδ and PP2A activity.

→ source (external link)

What is 1 micromolar Manganese in milligrams? How do you determine it?

I actually think I'm deficient in iron. I've always been anemic since I was a child, but my ferritin levels were always within the range and that's all that doctors care about nowadays. Before I started exercising my ferritin levels were around 60 ug/L, which isn't bad, but I still had symptoms of anemia. My recent blood test revealed my ferritin levels to be at 36 ug/L. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I started supplementing 18 mg Iron bisglycinate 2 weeks ago and I feel much better now. My heart palpitations are virtually gone and I rarely have shortness of breath now. I'm worried about iron overload so I'm now taking 18 mg every other day. Also, I just came back from a HIIT run and my recovery time has improved significantly. I run for a minute and walk for 2. I would usually struggle to catch my breath after a run, but now I find it much easier to catch my breath.

Maca is a great source of nutrients and it's actually been dubbed a superfood, but it also has a compound that's active in the CNS.

A mineral analysis would be amazing, but the doctors in Canada are idiots, well most of them at least. That's the price you pay for free healthcare I guess.

Which brand of SJW are you taking? A lot of people mention that perika is dopaminergic because of the hyperforin content. Have you tried both hypericin and hyperforin extracts? If so, which of the two did you find most helpful and at what doses/pills a day? I'm a bit worried about SJW because I read a lot of reports of vision damage. What do you think of this?

About Mucuna, what brand are you taking and how much L-DOPA is it providing? What are the benefits and side effects?

[Galaxyshock]

Interesting that you react so strongly to iron supplement. Could be some kind of metabolic/absorption thing or even metal accumulation that may be causing at least some of your issues. I've read Gotu Kola actually removes residues of heavy metals and at the same time has antioxidant and neuroprotective qualities against them. Some people report immediate relief effect from it. But I'm not sure how backed up this is by research or is it just anecdotal. Manganese is actually needed for iron metabolism and also fights anemia. I took 15mg of manganese which is a bit over the recommended maximum I think. I read about it in socialanxietysupport.com where some people got great results with it. It definitely had very noticeable dopamine boosting effect but at the time I reacted to various things unusually strongly.

About SJW and Mucuna you can read in my posts in the previous page. Kira definitely feels at least as dopaminergic and noradrenergic as serotonin-increasing so it's quite the stuff. And the noradrenaline increase doesn't seem to appear anything jittery or caffeine-like, but this mental energy and clarity. It gets me even a bit euphoric at times. Mucuna at best provides me motivation, libido, muscle mass, sense of being well and alive. It may not always work though especially if used excessively and daily. I think like 3-4 times a week or on my workout days could be better. Side effect may be some restlessness and I think mucus build-up in my throat.

High-dose ashwagandha extract by the way seems to do the GABA-B trick, but I need at least 20mg withanolides for effects which means like 4 caps of Solgar. The Now brand ashwagandha extract is over 20mg withanolides at one cap so it would be optimal. It's strange about the stress reactions.. I took this dendrobium-based stimulant yesterday when I had already taken Ginseng and 4 caps of Solgar Ashwagandha. Got good stimulation and energy for gym and barely any side effects. Later that day I had taken a nap and was feeling quite lousy so I took half the dose of the stimulant on empty stomach. The ashwagandha and ginseng were mostly woren off I guess. I got the good-feeling stimulation for like 20 minutes, then followed by anxiety, panic-like feeling, disorientation and then what I think is the "freeze-reaction" (instead of fight-or-flight). That's when I feel horrible and anhedonia-zombieness takes over. A dose of ginseng, ashwagandha and SJW was able to cancel out the bad feeling mostly.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 25 May 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[NeuroNootropic]

For the Phenylalanine, did you try DLPA or just regular L-Phenylalanine? Not sure if there's a difference between the two though.

What about amphetamines or Selegiline?

Anyway, apart from the drug-related treatment, have you checked your thyroid hormones? TSH is not enough to measure thyroid function, you need to check:

• Free T4
• Free T3
• Reverse T3
• Thyroglobulin Antibodies
• Thyroid Peroxidase

Here's a good site that covers the thyroid misconceptions.

I was just using L-Phenylalanine. I remember reading something a while back claiming that L-Phe is better. I don't particularly believe it's capable of much of anything in any case.

I actually recently found a site that sells selegiline at a very decent price, so I might try it. The question is dosage. I don't think I'd want to exceed 5 mg/day, although perhaps 2.5 mg could work. Any thoughts?

I have no experience with amphetamine and wouldn't talk about it here if I did. I'm not interested in taking something with a decent bit of potential for neurotoxicity. I do think there's a lot of therapeutic potential for stimulants, just for more serious cases. And of course, their tendency to be pretty effective make me very interested in dopaminergic agents.

The TSH comment is interesting. I've had TSH before - and only after telling my doctor that I'm pretty much always a bit tired. It used to be at the very bottom of the normal range but increased to a normal value after starting to exercise. According to the site you linked, it's still deficient, but I suspect their numbers are skewed to say a larger portion of the population has thyroid issues. I tend to have normal-high BP and normal-high metabolism, so I doubt thyroid issues are central. In any case, I might mention those tests.

I remember that Selegiline improved my consummatory anhedonia, but not anticipatory. I took 5 mg of Selegiline HCL (tablet, oral) last year April for about a month and a half and gave up on it when it did not increase my motivation. It had no effect on my energy or libido, which is weird because dopamine supposedly improves those two aspects.

Anyway, I read that chronic Selegiline use loses its MAO-B selectivity and becomes a full MAOI, how true is this?

Would it be safe to combine Selegiline with either Rhodiola Rosea, Cordyceps, or both? What about with Methylphenidate? While MPH did not improve my anhedonia symptoms much, it did reduce fatigue; low energy can probably hinder anhedonia treatment because one is less likely to engage in pleasurable activities.

[Dissolvedissolve]

I remember that Selegiline improved my consummatory anhedonia, but not anticipatory. I took 5 mg of Selegiline HCL (tablet, oral) last year April for about a month and a half and gave up on it when it did not increase my motivation. It had no effect on my energy or libido, which is weird because dopamine supposedly improves those two aspects.

Anyway, I read that chronic Selegiline use loses its MAO-B selectivity and becomes a full MAOI, how true is this?

Would it be safe to combine Selegiline with either Rhodiola Rosea, Cordyceps, or both? What about with Methylphenidate? While MPH did not improve my anhedonia symptoms much, it did reduce fatigue; low energy can probably hinder anhedonia treatment because one is less likely to engage in pleasurable activities.

It's very bizarre that selegiline failed to be motivating and energizing. Even if just through its metabolite, I would expect some effects. The major concern would seem to be whether your brain downregulates to eliminate the effect after 1-4 weeks - and I've heard conflicting reports on whether the benefits are sustained.

I haven't heard that selegiline loses selectivity. That seems very bizarre - its reactivity is determined by chemical structure, and it's not like MAO-A suddenly changes to become MAO-B. Perhaps it would be worth researching on Pubmed.

Rhodiola rosea potentially raises a wide range of NTs, so it would be a very iffy combo with selegiline. I'm not saying you couldn't get away with it - you likely could - but it would be a risk. I certainly wouldn't combine RR with an MAOA-I. I know cordyceps is a source of adenosine, potentially downregulating adenosine receptors and thus increasing NT release. I would be cautious with that combo as well, since in general you want to tweak either release or reuptake and breakdown, but not both. With MPH you'd be both preventing reuptake with MPH and inhibiting breakdown by MAO-B. That sounds potentially dangerous to me - the risk would be hypertensive crisis. Now realistically, it might work. In real-world psychiatric practice, these types of risky combos are not terribly uncommon in dealing with treatment-resistant depression. But they are dangerous and are monitored closely. If you want to be safe, don't mix selegiline with any releasing agents or reuptake inhibitors. I know chocolate and coffee are fine in very small quantities with an MAOI, but even a cup or two of strong coffee might elevate your HR to uncomfortable levels. I'd be interested in your response to those two compounds while on a regimen of selegiline.

Also, I'm now on day 8 of Perika SJW. I've noticed mild anxiolysis, improved motivation, and mood elevation. There might be more curiosity, which is always a great sign - could be 5-HT2A upregulation or placebo. On the negative side, I could see how one could become content with a non-ideal situation - which could also be considered a positive depending on your perspective. Keep in mind effects should increase over the next week. Since there's obviously a placebo effect occurring, we'll see if the effects intensify or dissipate.

Schisandra wound up being alright but unimpressive. I used it 3 times in ~5 days, two pills of the "schisandra adrenal complex" on all occasions. I noticed some energy with no anxiety - probably even anxiolysis. It just wasn't very potent, and the effects may have diminished with repeated dosing.

Edited by Dissolvedissolve, 28 May 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

I think it takes several weeks for SJW to really start doing its thing. Ginseng imo is pretty essential with it. The 5-HTA synergy is such an eye-opening thing once it hits you and enormously therapeutic for anhedonia and bluntness. Schisandra is quite smooth that's true, though I do find it works better now that things are clicking, compared to few months ago. I hope you see improvement, and give ginseng a shot with the SJW.

[Dissolvedissolve]

I think it takes several weeks for SJW to really start doing its thing. Ginseng imo is pretty essential with it. The 5-HTA synergy is such an eye-opening thing once it hits you and enormously therapeutic for anhedonia and bluntness. Schisandra is quite smooth that's true, though I do find it works better now that things are clicking, compared to few months ago. I hope you see improvement, and give ginseng a shot with the SJW.

OK I will. I really like ginseng - clean energy and mood lift. But in the past the tolerance was a hassle. If SJW eliminates the downregulation of 5-HT2A, that would be very cool. I'll give SJW 3 weeks and then experiment with the combo.

[Galaxyshock]

Combining Jiaogulan and Ginseng extracts.. damn, shit is getting real! Also after a long time started doing full-body workouts so only heavy movements like squats, rows, presses etc. Just walking down the street I feel like I'm 40 feet tall and made of diamond. Going perhaps a bit off topic here but Jiaogulan is a seriously strong adaptogen not to be dismissed. Ginseng is still the king though, I'm surprised I haven't build any tolerance to it really - it even keeps working better. Only issue with it can be that in hot weather the "heating" effect of it can get uncomfortable. Cooling off with a cold shower works though. Anhedonia is pretty much entirely gone, barely even thinking about it these days. Just wonder what the hell happened to me somewhere along the line.. How you guys doing? Getting any help from SJW and Ginseng?

[magniloquentc0unt]

im slightly jealous. adaptogens have been a pretty total waste of money for me. i almost cant believe your reports: are you a placeboeffect-prone kind of person?
edit: not trying to offend you, i just have a couple of variables that come into mind that might explain your success: presence or absence of underlying depression and as said, if you're prone to experiencing the placebo effect. I'm also thinking of this particular phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia....ressive_realism

Edited by magniloquentc0unt, 05 June 2013 - 01:44 PM.

[Galaxyshock]

Underlying depression has probably been there more or less for several years along with anxiety issues, low energy, lethargy, asocial tendencies etc. Phenibut withdrawal was when anhedonia took over and shit was really bad. So a lot of variables are sure affecting my perception of life of course. Like I said before, the summer, being in the best shape of my life, recently moving to a new apartment, getting over my fears, forcing myself to be more social, succeeding in poker... All add up. But having a brain that works and responds, and perceives the world hasn't been axiomatic. In the fall I won over $30k from a poker tournament and felt "nice" at best for a moment but remained in blunted haze and had almost no emotions. I don't think my brain has even been capable to much of a placebo effect because I had been feeling so zombie-like that I didn't actually believe in anything. Having accustomated to trying different herbs and supplements, I just shoved them down my throat to see if something would happen. A lot of the time nothing, sometimes a hyper-reaction to things like a preworkout supplement (some of the formulas are pretty strong), sometimes a mild help, usually nothing for anhedonia though. Jiaogulan was one of the first things that I could actually feel doing something, back in the winter.

But Ginseng and SJW sure have had unmistakable effect for me so many times and gradually things getting a lot better that I think they have true therapeutic value. Both are recognized by scientific research to have actual favourable effects. But surely things may have partially improved "naturally" during this time.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 05 June 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[chris106]

Damn, Galaxyshock - I'm getting jealous, too!

Still waiting for my Perika SJW and Panax Ginseng to arrive. I completely missed the Jiogulan part - so I take it you now take SJW, Ginseng, Bacopa and Jiaogulan?

What from of Jiaogulan is it? I still have a bag of raw organic powder (intented for making tea of, though). I tried taking it encapsulated in the past, but didn't notice anything after a few days and quit...

I guess Jiaogulan takes time to work, as well? Which brand are you using?

Edited by chris106, 05 June 2013 - 08:00 PM.

[noos]

5HT2A agonists:

SSRI's (need to be combined with johns or downregulate 5HT2A)
St johns wortht
Panax ginseng
Hydergine
Ergotamine
Lisuride
Treshold psychedelics

GABAB
Ashwaghanda
Baclofen
Phenibut
GHB

Any succes with antimuscarinics?

Isn't Fluoxetine( prozac) a 5-
HT2A *antagonist*?

[Dissolvedissolve]

Isn't Fluoxetine( prozac) a 5-
HT2A *antagonist*?

I believe you are correct. Interestingly, it does seem to increase extracellular DA and NE, possibly through 5-HT2C antagonism.

http://www.nature.co...l/1395967a.html

[middpanther88]

Tried perika sjw. Had a massive disabling headache the 3rd day I tried it--don't know if I can attribute it to perika or not but stopped nonetheless. The eye stuff freaked me out, Whichs another reason I discontinued.

[Galaxyshock]

Damn, Galaxyshock - I'm getting jealous, too!

Still waiting for my Perika SJW and Panax Ginseng to arrive. I completely missed the Jiogulan part - so I take it you now take SJW, Ginseng, Bacopa and Jiaogulan?

What from of Jiaogulan is it? I still have a bag of raw organic powder (intented for making tea of, though). I tried taking it encapsulated in the past, but didn't notice anything after a few days and quit...

I guess Jiaogulan takes time to work, as well? Which brand are you using?

I recently run out of Bacopa but got more coming. I like trying different things but SJW and Ginseng (+ Bacopa) are the fundamentals that I'm sticking to. Ginseng alone raises my confidence/attitude pretty strongly and makes muscles feel full and strong. Probably my endocrine system hasn't been working the best either since these things have such a big effects. Jiaogulan I use Paradise Herbs extract. Usually works for me within few days if not immediately. Jiaogulan has some unique qualities and feeling to it. Can't hurt making some tea of your full herb powder. Note though that many adaptogens like Jiaogulan, Ginseng and Ashwagandha can lower blood sugar, so stacking all of them at once may not always be the best option.


Sorry to hear about the bad reaction middpanther.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 06 June 2013 - 02:24 AM.

[timtam777]

I have tried racetams - no effect whatsoever except for ani which improved my memory. Dopa mucuna - no effect which surprised me. Perika SJW had sexual sides - no go. The CILTEP stacked worked well for me but I was taking too much forskohlin and I burnt out - I will try it again down the track and change my forskohlin intake.
I bought some bacopa the other day and it is very impressive! Definitely has a strong anxiolytic effect, much improved focus and slight boost in motivation for things, zen-like calmness and, slightly improved sociability. I'm taking 2 x 225mg tabs twice a day (brand is planetary something?) I'm on day 4 and its working wonderfully for me at the moment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[NeuroNootropic]

Combining Jiaogulan and Ginseng extracts.. damn, shit is getting real! Also after a long time started doing full-body workouts so only heavy movements like squats, rows, presses etc. Just walking down the street I feel like I'm 40 feet tall and made of diamond. Going perhaps a bit off topic here but Jiaogulan is a seriously strong adaptogen not to be dismissed. Ginseng is still the king though, I'm surprised I haven't build any tolerance to it really - it even keeps working better. Only issue with it can be that in hot weather the "heating" effect of it can get uncomfortable. Cooling off with a cold shower works though. Anhedonia is pretty much entirely gone, barely even thinking about it these days. Just wonder what the hell happened to me somewhere along the line.. How you guys doing? Getting any help from SJW and Ginseng?

Can you give us more details about the Jiaogulan and the Ginseng? What brands, dosage, time taken, how long until the effects are noticable and/or peak, any tolerance? Also, are you taking anything else with them?

I'm glad that you are feeling better, I've actually been doing quite well with NOW Food's Rhodiola 500 mg. I took it for about 5 weeks back in May and noticed the effects come on after about 3 days. Some of the benefits were:

• Improved anhedonia, both anticipatory and consummatory; I feel like I'm at 60% on a scale that measures hedonic response whereas before I was at 10%
• Increased energy
• Increased sociability
• Easier waking up in the morning
• Decreased weakness feeling
• Decreased heart palpitations

And my absolute favorite benefit:

• Decreased inhibitions

This could interrupted as increased motivation by some, but increased motivation for me is defined as being more driven and ambitious. Decreased inhibition does not necessarily include those traits, but it does make my life much more productive. An example of this is picking up the phone and calling my doctor to make an appointment. What used to seem like complex and arduous tasks are now rather simple and effortless. I hypothesize this benefit arises from the antidepressant effect of Rhodiola which, in theory, should decrease psychomotor retardation.

[Galaxyshock]

Can you give us more details about the Jiaogulan and the Ginseng? What brands, dosage, time taken, how long until the effects are noticable and/or peak, any tolerance? Also, are you taking anything else with them?

I think Medievil's hypothesis that 5-HT2A and GABA-B activation being the major things for anhedonia is mostly correct. Taking care of them is the primary thing when treating it. St. John's does both - upregulates 5-HT2A and has GABA-B affinity. Not to forget the mechanism of dopamine-noradrenaline-serotonin-glutamate-GABA re-uptake inhibition and MAOI-effects. Ginseng agonizes 5-HT2A and binds or interacts various receptors and chemical bathways (Dopamine, GABA, NMDA), also affects endocrine function etc. I think this is why these two have such a tremendous therapeutic value. I take Ginseng and SJW first thing in the morning and redose atleast in the afternoon and early evening. If I don't take Ginseng I tend to still be quite sluggish and get stuck to computer doing something useless. Now I've thrown Jiaogulan there too and usually take my preworkout-supplement and go to either gym or for a run early in the day. I also still use Maca which I think benefits energy levels and adrenals (thanks for mentioning it). Rhodiola has always been good stuff to activate me or to get things going cheering up the day, and at least slightly help anhedonia.

I ran out of Perika again (those bottles don't last very long at minimum of 3 caps a day) and bought a local supplement store SJW liquid extract. It's Hypericin standardized and I notice it doesn't have quite that activating noadrenaline-dopamine effect of Hyperiforin-extract but still works (through GABA-B etc. I suppose) Ginseng I also use the product I find in the store, it's extracted to 16mg ginsenosides and usually I take 2-4 caps a day. I think any quality brand will do the job. 3 times a day dosing seems to be a good standard with these things because at some point they start wearing off and I might still start feeling worse.

Perika SJW had sexual sides - no go.

Sorry to hear. I too tend to get some "asexualizing" effects from things that have notable serotonin affinity - but Ginseng cancels all that out. Throw Maca, Jiaogulan and Mucuna in there and I turn to quite a beast lol.

[timtam777]

In addition to the other effects I'm feeling from bacopa, there's a definite improvement in memory performance - especially whenI'm feeling the effects of alcohol!??
ALso, I find that when I'm under the effects of alcohol, not completely smashed, but buzzing, I find my motivation much improved. Things I normally put off and procrastinate about as soon as I think about them I am willing to complete the task (obviously not tasks that could be dangerous under the influence).
For me alcohol is not a depressant, it's quite the opposite.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not an alco getting smashed every night, but I usually have a few on friday and sat nights. Just enough to get a buzz. For me, it's the best treatment for anhedonia I've come across so far.

Edited by timtam777, 07 June 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[magniloquentc0unt]

Does someone know what are the pharmacologic effects of Rhodiola and Bacopa?
I am taking Tianeptine, its my 8th week now, i am doing better and in the right direction, but i have the feeling it has plateaud and its not enough.
I tried Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine but it did not feel right: i have the feeling the substances hinder each other.
I have the feeling rhodiola might amplyfy maybe tianeptine, and with bacopa i had pleasurable experiences... but im not good enough on pharmacological knowledge to be sure their mechanism dont slow each other down...

[chris106]

Regarding Bacopa: Like I mentioned I allready have some here (also NOW Panax Ginseng arrived today - now only SJW is still missing )

Anyways, I started Bacopa a few days back, just to see if it has any effect on it's own - I got mine from Mind Nutrition's UK store, and take 500mg (2 capsules) each day -
and I feel absolutely nothing from it.

Might of course be due to me taking a bunch of other stuff (RR, Mucuna, modafinil occasionally) - but still - is that normal? From your guys experience, does Bacopa take some time to work? Cause right now it might as well be sugar pills...

[magniloquentc0unt]

Yes, bacopa is the plant that took the longer to set in for me.. First i was too eager and secondly i did not take enough. The effects are mild and pleasant on memory. Youll notice you reall memories you tought long forgotten.

[chris106]

Good to know. If I may ask, how much did you take daily and how long did it aproximately take? weeks?

[Galaxyshock]

Bacopa often takes about a week to kick in. In studies it was used for a 12-week period, and the memory-enhancing effects last for a while after ceasing. Anything serotonergic (5-HTP for example, SJW can do that too I think) seems to potentiate the lucidity effects, in my experience. Are you using an extract? Mine contains 40mg bacosides per cap and I usually took 2-4 a day for good effects. Ginseng may also take a while before it starts really giving noticeable effects, same goes with SJW. These are more of long-term therapeutic agents, not so much a quick cure. It may of course be frustrating if you don't respond to them even after a while.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 08 June 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[chris106]

Thanx again for the info, Galaxyshock!

The Bacopa from Mindnutrition claims to contain 51% Bacosides and each capsule is 250mg Bacopa, so that would be roughly 125mg Bacosides per capsule.
That seems to be plenty in comparison, so I'll stick with their suggested intake of 2 caps daily.

My Perika St Johns Wort arrived today, btw. So now I'll star taking SJW, Panax Ginseng and Bacopa daily - as soon a I notice effects, Ill give a feedback! Guess I'll just have to be a little patient now

[Galaxyshock]

Alright, I hope you get at least some of the benefits I've experienced. Would be good to get anecdotes that these things can really help people with anhedonia or other issues, and even further benefit life quality.

Edited by Galaxyshock, 08 June 2013 - 05:36 PM.